Normalcy; what does it look like?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So, I've done some reading on the leaving boards, and something sort of struck me.

It was the concept of mirroring. That the entire relationship with a BPD isn't exactly real. That what one took for intimacy and connection was just an illusion.

I myself have only had 2 relationships. I'm not proud of my lack of experience. My first was likely also a BPD as she had a number of the traits. Trust issues, constantly calling, painting her mother black, etc. It was LDR, and we met a few times. But... .it wasn't good.

My next one I would see every weekend, and eventually more often. She was confirmed BPD and had all the traits that come with it.

I'm 26. So far I've only been in very emotionally draining and ultimately unsatisfying relationships. Disordered and dysfunctional relationships.

I've never been with a "normal" person. How do such relationships go?

On another hand, I feel like I just don't have what it takes to be in one. Like I'm too weird, too blunt, or... .sometimes I feel like maybe I have Aspergers, as if there are social conventions that elude me. Like... .I creep people out, even though I am always examining my actions and words and looking for anything unsettling and correcting it. Maybe there are things I'm unaware of.


The other day on a dating site, I started up a conversation with a girl. We had quite a bit in common. Didn't live too far away, an easy trip in any case. A few days into it I talked about meeting up, to see if there's any chemistry. She said she'd rather just continue talking to me for a while. I accepted but I also explained my reasoning for wanting to meet and my apprehension about the whole "I want to let things fall where they may" attitude. Like it was a subtle sort of rejection, but I wasn't sure if it was or not. I wasn't sure so I aired out how I saw things. I was honest, straight-forward, and held nothing back. But I was respectful and tried to have some tact. No responses, for at least 36 hours. She had a pattern of prompt response. I didn't whine, I didn't beg, and I didn't coerce. I didn't go overboard and say something crazy. I just said I'm definitely interested in hearing her share stories, and that the attraction is there. Was that TOO straight forward? Am I just not getting it? Whatever it is?

The reason I'm trying to move on, quickly as it is. Is not because there's a void I want to fill. I want to genuinely find a friend, with whom there's a mutual attraction, and an intimate relationship. I want to find someone, get to know them, share enjoy their company. I have few friends now, and I'm not getting younger. Life has a time limit, and I wasted large precious quantities of it. My prime years (what a joke, I'm fat. What prime years?) are going and soon I'll be a middle-aged man, who's testosterone is slowly dwindling, and his body steadily marching towards the end. Seeing my father, hearing him tell me "I don't have many years left" struck a chord. It won't be long until I'm in his shoes. I'm living in the present, but soon the present will be an aged and dying body. But who will be there with me? Will there be anyone to mourn my passing once my parents are gone? Who will care about what I have to share? Who will look at me and see love, passion, and companionship? I want to build happy memories, but will anyone want to share those memories with me? All that mirroring and idealization, now has me thinking... .did she really even want me? Will anyone want to explore my body as much as I do them? We can't deny that physical love is important, to do so would be to deny nature.

Am I just unfit? Is my situation merely the byproduct of natural selection? Not everyone wins, after all. Am I just the lonely creature that dies somewhere, never having passed on his genes, never having found a mate? No one in future generations will have my eyes, or my shoulders, or my mind. Is it perhaps because the makeup of my existence is not worth propagating? I mean that both in an evolutionary sense and in a more "spiritual" way if there's such a thing. Am I the one that all the other animals instinctively know to avoid, as if I smell of inferior genes?

People say being happy alone is better than miserable with someone. But I feel that most people are decent enough that you won't be miserable with them. So being content, while with someone... .better than being content and alone. One would think.

I see my therapist today. I missed last week's appointment, he asked what happened and I explained how my BPDex tried to kill herself. How I stopped her. But how now I'm left wondering whether my own stream of consciousness is worth continuing. They say "it gets better." When? When I'm old, when what vitality I have is gone? Youth wasted on the young, right? F*** me. A lifetime of pain and loneliness is *not* worth a few days of joy. It's a karmic poke in the eye. It's an insult to one's existence. Don't know when I'll decide it's time to just turn off the monitors and check out. It isn't now because there's a remote possibility of things improving. But every passing day it feels like it's all slipping through my fingers.

I'm sure plenty of people feel what I do now. My experience isn't unique.

Any advice? Anyone ever just want it to end? What did you do? What made you keep going?

[Vatz]

So, I've done some reading on the leaving boards, and something sort of struck me.

It was the concept of mirroring. That the entire relationship with a BPD isn't exactly real. That what one took for intimacy and connection was just an illusion.

I myself have only had 2 relationships. I'm not proud of my lack of experience. My first was likely also a BPD as she had a number of the traits. Trust issues, constantly calling, painting her mother black, etc. It was LDR, and we met a few times. But... .it wasn't good.

My next one I would see every weekend, and eventually more often. She was confirmed BPD and had all the traits that come with it.

I'm 26. So far I've only been in very emotionally draining and ultimately unsatisfying relationships. Disordered and dysfunctional relationships.

I've never been with a "normal" person. How do such relationships go?

On another hand, I feel like I just don't have what it takes to be in one. Like I'm too weird, too blunt, or... .sometimes I feel like maybe I have Aspergers, as if there are social conventions that elude me. Like... .I creep people out, even though I am always examining my actions and words and looking for anything unsettling and correcting it. Maybe there are things I'm unaware of.


The other day on a dating site, I started up a conversation with a girl. We had quite a bit in common. Didn't live too far away, an easy trip in any case. A few days into it I talked about meeting up, to see if there's any chemistry. She said she'd rather just continue talking to me for a while. I accepted but I also explained my reasoning for wanting to meet and my apprehension about the whole "I want to let things fall where they may" attitude. Like it was a subtle sort of rejection, but I wasn't sure if it was or not. I wasn't sure so I aired out how I saw things. I was honest, straight-forward, and held nothing back. But I was respectful and tried to have some tact. No responses, for at least 36 hours. She had a pattern of prompt response. I didn't whine, I didn't beg, and I didn't coerce. I didn't go overboard and say something crazy. I just said I'm definitely interested in hearing her share stories, and that the attraction is there. Was that TOO straight forward? Am I just not getting it? Whatever it is?

The reason I'm trying to move on, quickly as it is. Is not because there's a void I want to fill. I want to genuinely find a friend, with whom there's a mutual attraction, and an intimate relationship. I want to find someone, get to know them, share enjoy their company. I have few friends now, and I'm not getting younger. Life has a time limit, and I wasted large precious quantities of it. My prime years (what a joke, I'm fat. What prime years?) are going and soon I'll be a middle-aged man, who's testosterone is slowly dwindling, and his body steadily marching towards the end. Seeing my father, hearing him tell me "I don't have many years left" struck a chord. It won't be long until I'm in his shoes. I'm living in the present, but soon the present will be an aged and dying body. But who will be there with me? Will there be anyone to mourn my passing once my parents are gone? Who will care about what I have to share? Who will look at me and see love, passion, and companionship? I want to build happy memories, but will anyone want to share those memories with me? All that mirroring and idealization, now has me thinking... .did she really even want me? Will anyone want to explore my body as much as I do them? We can't deny that physical love is important, to do so would be to deny nature.

Am I just unfit? Is my situation merely the byproduct of natural selection? Not everyone wins, after all. Am I just the lonely creature that dies somewhere, never having passed on his genes, never having found a mate? No one in future generations will have my eyes, or my shoulders, or my mind. Is it perhaps because the makeup of my existence is not worth propagating? I mean that both in an evolutionary sense and in a more "spiritual" way if there's such a thing. Am I the one that all the other animals instinctively know to avoid, as if I smell of inferior genes?

People say being happy alone is better than miserable with someone. But I feel that most people are decent enough that you won't be miserable with them. So being content, while with someone... .better than being content and alone. One would think.

I see my therapist today. I missed last week's appointment, he asked what happened and I explained how my BPDex tried to kill herself. How I stopped her. But how now I'm left wondering whether my own stream of consciousness is worth continuing. They say "it gets better." When? When I'm old, when what vitality I have is gone? Youth wasted on the young, right? F*** me. A lifetime of pain and loneliness is *not* worth a few days of joy. It's a karmic poke in the eye. It's an insult to one's existence. Don't know when I'll decide it's time to just turn off the monitors and check out. It isn't now because there's a remote possibility of things improving. But every passing day it feels like it's all slipping through my fingers.

I'm sure plenty of people feel what I do now. My experience isn't unique.

Any advice? Anyone ever just want it to end? What did you do? What made you keep going?

[Vatz]

Okay, coming back from the gym a few hours later. Re-read the post.

Woow. So embarrassed. Sorry folks. This was just... .awful.

What I really need to see my therapist about is how I let these crummy feelings take hold and get so crazy.

Once again, my apologies. This was a horrible morning for me, and I made it worse by ruminating like this.

[refusetosuccumb]

Thank you for your honesty.  Don't be embarassed at all.  We've all questioned ourselves extensively, wondering what our role in attracting BPD people is.

I've also only had 2 r/s.  My first was in highschool/university, ages 18-21.  Looking back he had some major issues, possibly BPD.  He cheated, I dumped him.  My second was my exhusband of 16yrs (21-37).  Totally, 100% BPD.  He also ended up cheating on me.  I forgave, he did it again, I dumped him.

The best part about my time now without him is the chance to discover who I really am.  I'd rather be alone and happy than sucked into another drama fest. 

Dating sites are hard.  I don't think anyone is "unmatchable" it may just take more time to find "the right one" and the instantness of the communication can make us wonder about ourselves all the time.

Good luck with your T.  You seem very self-aware.  That's a good thing.  I hope you find someone when the time is right.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Vatz,

I agree with refusetosuccumb, your post was touchingly honest and unfiltered, and believe me, you speak for many of us.    I can relate to your ruminations, and I know how painful they can be.  It's perfectly understandable to wander into that kind of thinking after going through what you have been through.  We all want the suffering to end.

The fact that you were embarrassed and wanted to recant might indicate discomfort with vulnerability – I can certainly relate.  Maybe you can explore that a little – is there a fear of being seen as weak or needy if you express your feelings and worries?

In my experience, the ironic thing is that allowing ourselves to be vulnerable with people brings more love our way, not less.  Trusting that can be a challenge, though, especially when we've been vulnerable and experienced rejection or manipulation by others. 

How are you feeling today?

[Vatz]

Today? Today was a hard day.

I hate weakness in myself. It's unacceptable, rather, it's detrimental. The strong take what they want, the weak either get what's left or they perish. It is nature's law. Humans are no different. Other humans will try to dominate you, make you smaller so they can take what they want. They don't care when they fool around right in front of you. No decency, no boundaries. Just humiliation.

When you're weak you are crushed. That is why I can't stand weakness. I truly hate myself because I'm weak, because deep down, I know I deserve every terrible thing that happens.

[fromheeltoheal]

Whoa vatz, lettin' it fly man, good for you.  BTW, I could have written that post at various times in life.

A few random thoughts:

Every human on the planet wonders if they are 'enough' to be loved.  There may be differing degrees and levels of intensity among different people and different periods in a person's life, but EVERYONE feels that, so yes, you are not unique in that by any stretch.

I'm twice your age, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that you won't even hit your prime for 10 years.  No sense buying a burial plot just yet.

Meeting people online is OK, but it has significant limitations.  Although I've always known that, my ex loved to hide behind Facebook and texts, she created a fictional persona that I bought into that way, and she liked it because it allowed her to communicate while maintaining an emotional distance; she just knew intuitively that was the way to straddle the line between abandonment and engulfment.

But very little is actually communicated and a lot lost in written communication, also, online dating is a numbers game.  I recommend you graduate to the phone as quickly as you can with as many women as you can, at least then you get the tone of voice, which adds a lot to the communication.  And then, if things are going well on the phone, arrange to meet at a public place like Starbucks, to make her feel safe, and go from there, or not, the point is meet as many women as possible that way, which takes a lot of effort honestly, but what the hell, it's fun.

And recalibrate; real love is a slow burn.  You can tell by the look in a woman's eyes when you first meet if she's attracted to you or not, and you know if you are to her.  If there isn't mutual attraction to begin with, forget it, move on, not worth the effort, but if there is, let it build slowly, naturally.  I've been learning and practicing a lot about relationships lately, something that's good for us, since a trip to borderline hell can really fck up our ideas about relationships, and the real deal builds in intensity slowly over time, where borderline 'love', as we know, goes from 0 to 10 in nothing flat, which should now be a red flag for us.

Alright, that's me, carry on... .

[lemon flower]

I don't think there is such thing as "normalcy", and I am far from an expert in "normal", healthy relationships, but you're question made me wondering whether there are some indicators that could be linked to either "good" or "bad" relationships as some kind of references to check... .

if anyone has reflections on this, shoot !

(I'll allow myself to think it over a little longer, as for myself the answers obviously don't seem to bump up easily  )

[Ihope2]

Hello Vatz,

These statements that you wrote, strike a particular chord in me:

"I'm 26. So far I've only been in very emotionally draining and ultimately unsatisfying relationships. Disordered and dysfunctional relationships.

I've never been with a "normal" person. How do such relationships go?

On another hand, I feel like I just don't have what it takes to be in one. Like I'm too weird, too blunt, or... .sometimes I feel like maybe I have Aspergers, as if there are social conventions that elude me. Like... .I creep people out, even though I am always examining my actions and words and looking for anything unsettling and correcting it. Maybe there are things I'm unaware of."

I am almost 45 years of age, and I have also had a history of emotionally draining relationships, and my first marriage of 11 months, to a highly troubled man with BPD, which recently ended in divorce.  I had wondered for some years already, why my love relationships always felt like such a chore to me, that I chose partners who were troubled, punitive, emotionally checked out, needy, etc.  I also came to the conclusion that  for some reason, I can't seem to do "normal".  I have also been carrying this idea around with me that I am too weird and different to most people around me.  I have now come to the realisation that this burden I have carried around with me for the longest time is my hurt inner child, who grew up in a dysfunctional family with a lack of emotional nurturing and validation.  My parents were just too caught up in their own issues.  My mother has carried her own FOO issues around with her all her life and had introduced a succession of bombastic, narcissistic men into our family circle after my parents' divorce when I was a child of 7.  I had to repeat dysfunctional relationships with punitive men until I reached middle age, to wake up finally to what it is that is ailing me and what my psyche has been locked into for the longest time.  A lesson learned with much hardship, sadness, loss and pain, is that I need to learn to love myself fully first, and to re-parent my inner child and learn to love myself fully, and not to expect to find this only through finding the perfect mate.

"I hate weakness in myself. It's unacceptable, rather, it's detrimental. The strong take what they want, the weak either get what's left or they perish. It is nature's law. Humans are no different. Other humans will try to dominate you, make you smaller so they can take what they want. They don't care when they fool around right in front of you. No decency, no boundaries. Just humiliation.

When you're weak you are crushed. That is why I can't stand weakness. I truly hate myself because I'm weak, because deep down, I know I deserve every terrible thing that happens."

I used to beat myself up for my own perceived failures all the time, especially in my twenties.  In my twenties my anorexia reached its worst point.  I hated myself, my personality, my body, my shame, my shyness, my weirdness.  I deprived myself of the most basic necessity of them all, nourishing food on a regular basis.

Where does this absolute shame, and self-hatred come from?  We are born pure and innocent, it must have been put into us from someone.  Sometimes it is more obvious than other times.  My parents were not intentionally cruel to my siblings and me, they were / are just so blind to their own issues and they came together in a disasterous marriage and gave birth to three children who proved to be the tipping point. They could not cope with the life they had created together, but they did not even have the clarity of mind to part in the least harmful way possible to all. So their angry marrriage deteriorated into an even angrier divorce, and the legacy of all the anger has followed me around to this day.

UNTIL something happens to wake us up from our asleep state.  Something like the heartbreaking dynamic of being involved with a deeply damaged, troubled and personality disordered individual.  As painful and difficult as it is, take the learnings and introspect and reflect on what it is that keeps you locked in a no-win, painful and dysfunctional dynamic with such a person?  Are you equally as troubled by your own pain?  Who is the source of your original pain?  What is this pain? How does it make you feel?  :)o you honestly believe that that is all there is to you as a person?  What gives you comfort and hope?  What gives you joy?

I wish you healing and peace in your heart Vatz.  You seem like a very intelligent, emotionally switched on young man.  Not weak.  Just very honest about your vulnerability.

All the best to you going forward.  It is not easy to work on our inner most self and to learn to love oneself if one has not had great examples and encouragement growing up, but we can learn it at any age and slowly you will find your internal agitation lessen and a greater sense of peace filling you up.

[Cumulus]

Hi Vatz, I am slowly learning what normalcy looks like, it took me far too many years to know enough to even ask that question. I think you are way ahead of the game. Twenties sound really young to many of us here. Really really young to me  . I remember my twenties as probably being the most difficult decade of my life and I know it was so for many of my friends. There is just so much to do to set up an adult life. There is finishing an education, getting a vehicle, getting a place to live, finding a partner, think about children, find a career or at least a job that will pay the bills. The difference I believe in living life in your twenties vs 30s, 40s, 50s, or heaven forbid and beyond is the sense of urgency that was with me and was with some of my friends during this decade of life. There was a feeling that if I didn't get it done and get it done right away I would never have the chance to ever do whatever. It was that sense if urgency that caused me to make a lot of mistakes. Mistakes I lived with for many years and continue to live with.

I think living a normal life means understanding that at times our lives and the direction we need to go in is muddy and we are unable to see what to do. I think normalcy is having patience to wait these times through and not make bad decisions out of a perceived time frame. I think normalcy is using the times we feel in limbo to look around for new ideas, new friends and new interests. A normal life is not stagnant but dynamic. Being normal means adapting to that flow. There is someone out there who feels just like you do right now, someone who will compliment and enrich your life, someone who will care for you. Take the time to know what kind of person you want her to be. Then go out, live your life and when she comes along you will be ready. 

All the best from the often not normal, Cumulus.

[Vatz]

So lately been looking at other relationship forums, and so many men lamenting how women treat them poorly. So many MGTOW people demonizing women, pick-up artists talking about "game." I don't even know what the frig is the deal. I mean, I get the idea but I still for some reason think it's so incredibly stupid. Dudes talking about some "alpha male" that gets with all the women, and then making fun of guys they call "beta males." To me, it just seems like categorizing then dehumanizing the individual. It's like listening to a nazi talk about racial purity and the aryan man, except... .you know... .the dating scene equivalent. Then making fun of these so-called "betas" as if they're not human. Nature can be cruel, but are we really such a terrifying species that we mock the suffering of our own kind?

Then women talking about how short guys should either be sterilized or killed off. Either that or it's a troll and satire that goes over my head. But a prevalent theme of height and other shallow gauges of a man's worth? Does height=genetic superiority? I feel like in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't. It's just another variation in the human genetic spectrum. But I suppose it doesn't necessarily have to do anything with survival to be "attractive." So... .yeah. I guess that point is moot.

After my relationship with a BPD, sometimes I'm wondering if sane women are all that different? I mean, yeah obviously they aren't disordered and can keep a hold on their emotions.

It's always

Shallow this, cruel that, she hit me in the head with a wiffle-ball bat.

Anyway, how does this tie in to normalcy... .

Do normal, sane women categorize men? Do they, like some men secretly laugh at the ones who either "don't get it" or are just not up to snuff? After being with a BPD who was so mean, and deceitful, I'm wanting to know what is really the difference between us and them?

This isn't a complaint, but more of an inquiry.

What are normal, regular people really like? After reading through all the negativity, I wonder if it's true. Is this the cold, harsh "real world?" Is this the normal man and woman? Cares little for all except the best of the species, and remorselessly overlooks even mildly attractive people, decent folk? Then decades later talks about how "we were young" as if that's any consolation to those who suffered alone in their prime years?

At 26, I'm terrified of people. I want to believe that each individual is truly different, and that all that stuff I'm hearing about and reading is just... .if not BS then at least not quite so prominent in the human condition. I don't want to see people as cardboard cut-outs, stereotypes, and cold unfeeling bio-machines running on eons of hardwired instinct. I'm worried that there isn't much of a place for me here. That I don't belong, but more than that, that I'm not welcome.

I don't know what's really out there, and I'm scared to find out.

[MammaMia]

Vatz

From your posts, I noticed several things: 

You sound depressed, angry, confused about women and relationships, and lonely. 

One thing you may want to remember is that appearing to be too needy or too eager will frighten women.  Real relationships develop with time and trust, and if you do not believe you deserve a good relationship, your self-esteem has been damaged... .another thing women pick up on quickly. Stop trying so hard to connect with someone new.  Become comfortable in your own skin first.  When you are comfortable, they too will be comfortable.

If you stick with your therapist and work through your issues, you will be happier, more confident, and better prepared for a new relationship. 

I really do hope things improve for you. You can do this.  Please keep us posted.

[BorisAcusio]

pick-up artists talking about "game." I don't even know what the frig is the deal. I mean, I get the idea but I still for some reason think it's so incredibly stupid. Dudes talking about some "alpha male" that gets with all the women, and then making fun of guys they call "beta males." To me, it just seems like categorizing then dehumanizing the individual.

Those self-proclaimed "alpha males" repeatedly get burned by borderlines, ending up in the same dispair as we are.

[refusetosuccumb]

We aren't defined by our weaknesses.  We all have them (some more than others, but we all have them).  For me, weakness is just another opportunity to improve myself.  My personality is to "succeed at all costs" which is probably why I stuck in my 16yr marriage for as long as I did.  The r/s failing, to me, was a sign that somehow I failed as a wife.  But now that I'm out, the real failure was continuing to nurture something that should have been left to die on it's own.

I don't classify people in any group.  People are people.  It is what it is.  I strive to find an individual (in my case, I'm female looking for a male down the road) that compliments my life.  I don't require a partner to feel successful as a person.  In fact, my opinion is that until we are happy with our own company, how can we be good company for anyone else? 

Vatz, you are still young.  I'm 37yrs old and am still considered young.  But me, at 37, is much different than the person I was at 26.  Life experience can be both beneficial and terrifying at the same time.

We all wanted something different with our partners than what we got.  And that's OK.  It's only failure if you stop striving for better for yourself.  A true partner will also want better for you, too.  If they don't, don't consider them as a life partner.

[fromheeltoheal]

One thing you may want to remember is that appearing to be too needy or too eager will frighten women.  Real relationships develop with time and trust, and if you do not believe you deserve a good relationship, your self-esteem has been damaged... .another thing women pick up on quickly. Stop trying so hard to connect with someone new.  Become comfortable in your own skin first.  When you are comfortable, they too will be comfortable.

This is great info vatz, from a woman who is being straight with you; use it.  The other piece is if you do have low self esteem, along with positive traits, you are a target for a borderline.

Yes, therapy and working through issues is important, and so is spending time with as many women as possible.  That's what we're supposed to do when we're young and finding our way, maybe looking for someone to live our lives with, meet lots and lots; doing the inner work with a therapist is great, and maybe more important is taking the work you've done out into the world and practicing with your new-found self.

I heard a quote recently: ":)on't chase women, chase your dreams and women will follow."  There's nothing more attractive than a man who knows who he is and is pursuing his own mission and his own purpose; working on that is the best work you can do.

[seeking balance]

I hate weakness in myself. It's unacceptable, rather, it's detrimental. The strong take what they want, the weak either get what's left or they perish. It is nature's law. Humans are no different. Other humans will try to dominate you, make you smaller so they can take what they want. They don't care when they fool around right in front of you. No decency, no boundaries. Just humiliation.

When you're weak you are crushed. That is why I can't stand weakness. I truly hate myself because I'm weak, because deep down, I know I deserve every terrible thing that happens.

Emotional vulnerability is not weakness - it is the greatest strength - it takes more courage to be honest, go after our dreams and get kicked down than manipulating the system. 

We get from this life what we ask for - I rolled my eyes at that quote the first few times I heard it - mainly because I didn't realize it took COURAGE to be alone rather than in an unequal relationship.

Dating is hard - online dating - brutal.  It asks you to be open and honest, but at the very real expense of the other person being a complete game player.  At least if you meet someone through friends there is that common person that takes a bit of risk away.  Depersonalize, depersonalize, depersonalize - until you have had 3 actual dates with someone, depersonalize - it is with some time spent together that you can see what is real.

I love this quote - is was resurrected with Brene' Brown's Book Daring Greatly - might want to pick it up.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Anyway, how does this tie in to normalcy... .

What are normal, regular people really like?

Normal is a myth - everyone has issues to one degree or another.  Not one person is perfect, it is our ability to know ourselves, what we can handle, what we cannot, our own short-comings that gives us the tools and confidence to accept someone else as they truly are.  Everyone, simply wants to be seen and heard for who they really are, but who we all really are - well that is as different as there are snow flakes.

At 26, I'm terrified of people. I want to believe that each individual is truly different, and that all that stuff I'm hearing about and reading is just... .if not BS then at least not quite so prominent in the human condition. I don't want to see people as cardboard cut-outs, stereotypes, and cold unfeeling bio-machines running on eons of hardwired instinct. I'm worried that there isn't much of a place for me here. That I don't belong, but more than that, that I'm not welcome.

I don't know what's really out there, and I'm scared to find out.

Oh Vatz, at 26, 36, 46 humans have fears and doubts - we all do.  You belong and you are welcome, it is about finding your niche' - your "tribe".

What do you do for fun or hobbies?

[Vatz]

Thanks everyone for the responses. It means a lot.

MammaMia:

Maybe you're right. I wouldn't say I'm *angry* but confused and depressed are definitely there. Although, who knows. Here's the thing, When I'm out I don't do the needy act. I have protocol I observe. Nothing strict or too specific, but just a few things I keep in mind. I guess maybe I'm often hesitant, it's held me back. When I'm out, I put on a face and get things going. But hey, could be you're right. I might appear needy. I suppose only either a rescuer or a borderline would take advantage of that.

Boris Acusio:

Well, borderlines move fast, and I suppose that's what these "types of dudes" aim for so maybe you're right. But they'd probably have to have low self esteem.

refusetosuccumb:

You know, when I was 20 I may have said "Life experience? Great, I only get to enjoy life later? F*** that!"

Now, maybe I should change my attitude. Who says enjoying it means someone is there? Find my own joy in life, yeah?

fromheeltoheal:

There's also nothing more attractive than... .an attractive face/body.   Of the follow your dreams thing I'm not too sure about. Not about doing so. Actually going out and following my ambitions I'm behind. That's more about me, and "me" needs lots of work.

I just think a little more realistically. Not all dreams are... .attractive. Also, I'm not sure if being "that guy" really does much. People say it does but... .I have my suspicions. It's like saying god has a purpose. That... .you know... .sort of means nothing.


seeking balance:

Emotional vulnerability a strength? I don't know if I'm there yet. Kinda hard to go out and be vulnerable. Here I can talk about my thoughts and fears because it's become something of a safe haven, the folks here are nice and sometimes present me with some hard pills to swallow. So, yeah here's fine.

As for hobbies and fun... .

I used to love dancing. I took two classes a while ago (My first was maybe 3 years ago.) There was a competition at the end of the classical dance course. Two categories. Got 3rd and 8th. Never competed before. Roughly 30 pairs of students. My partner was a personal trainer in her mid thirties.

At central park I'd climb and jump off the rocks, I'd climb the same set multiple times. I'd try to get a rhythm going.

I Loove video games. But hey, I'm a mid-twenties male. So, you know, that's almost a given.

I draw, hell I used to sculpt when I took lessons as a kid. I still have some of my works hanging in my parent's home. But I love pencil drawings. Been slowly getting better at it over the years. I don't practice much but I get into these flurry's when I just gotta do it and that character I'm doing had better get fleshed out or I'm not leaving the room.

I lift weights, and I used to do sprints. I'm so out of shape now it's that much harder. I know, I know, smallest violin on that one.

Right now, I'm not all that *engaged* in any of my hobbies. Probably should get back to it.

[fromheeltoheal]

There's also nothing more attractive than... .an attractive face/body.   Of the follow your dreams thing I'm not too sure about. Not about doing so. Actually going out and following my ambitions I'm behind. That's more about me, and "me" needs lots of work.I just think a little more realistically. Not all dreams are... .attractive. Also, I'm not sure if being "that guy" really does much. People say it does but... .I have my suspicions. It's like saying god has a purpose. That... .you know... .sort of means nothing.

Ok vatz, if the word 'dreams' has a negative connotation for you, try a life of purpose.  One thing all depressed people do, myself included when I was depressed, is focus on ourselves.  When we focus on a mission and other people, the depression disappears.  Or if that's too lofty, just remember that the key to happiness is progress, moving forward.  And take my word for it, if you focus on a bright future and move in that direction, and become inspired with your progress, the look in women's eyes will change when they look at you, guaranteed.