Can anyone enlighten me regarding details of why/how the BPDso can act "nice"

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I am posting this here because although I originally joined this Board labeling myself as Undecided, if I am honest with myself, I really want to leave, although I can't seem to "justify" it to myself yet... .  I'm sure this makes sense to someone... .

After 4 years, I feel broken by all the negative parts/times of uBPDh's BPD.  I don't feel good stuff with him as totally good anymore, I am ALWAYS waiting for/hoping for bad BPD moments because deep inside I want to justify valuing myself enough to just up and leave the rollercoaster ride.

I don't understand why I am so quick to "dismiss" the devaluing moments because even recently there have been many times of uBPDh "making suggestions" about the things I'm doing that he of course knows how to do SO MUCH BETTER... .= devaluing does happen consistently, although less or more frequently at times... .But I dismiss this stuff somehow?  And he DOES do many nice things for me and the kids, provision-wise, motive-wise, etc... .I guess another way to put it is that he DOES have short spurts of positivity in an otherwise negatively-focused mindset... .I somehow grasp ahold of these pieces of positivity as a reason to not be able to justify the negative way I feel inside... .

I guess I'm just looking for anything any of you can say that might help me understand WHY I am reacting/feeling/dismissing/accepting things the way that I am... .We are Christians so I guess I'm sort of wrestling with the "maybe he IS changing" thoughts... .I am a firm believer there is "always" hope, in general in life, so hubby COULD change, things COULD get better... .maybe they actually ARE getting better, maybe I'M being too picky... .BUT when he devalues my actions I feel like I want to just GO and be out from underneath any of the negativity!  It is a very strong urge to be free... .But maybe I feel guilty about giving up if I'm just not seeing positivity strong enough?

Thoughts?

[thereishope]

I am posting this here because although I originally joined this Board labeling myself as Undecided, if I am honest with myself, I really want to leave, although I can't seem to "justify" it to myself yet... .  I'm sure this makes sense to someone... .

After 4 years, I feel broken by all the negative parts/times of uBPDh's BPD.  I don't feel good stuff with him as totally good anymore, I am ALWAYS waiting for/hoping for bad BPD moments because deep inside I want to justify valuing myself enough to just up and leave the rollercoaster ride.

I don't understand why I am so quick to "dismiss" the devaluing moments because even recently there have been many times of uBPDh "making suggestions" about the things I'm doing that he of course knows how to do SO MUCH BETTER... .= devaluing does happen consistently, although less or more frequently at times... .But I dismiss this stuff somehow?  And he DOES do many nice things for me and the kids, provision-wise, motive-wise, etc... .I guess another way to put it is that he DOES have short spurts of positivity in an otherwise negatively-focused mindset... .I somehow grasp ahold of these pieces of positivity as a reason to not be able to justify the negative way I feel inside... .

I guess I'm just looking for anything any of you can say that might help me understand WHY I am reacting/feeling/dismissing/accepting things the way that I am... .We are Christians so I guess I'm sort of wrestling with the "maybe he IS changing" thoughts... .I am a firm believer there is "always" hope, in general in life, so hubby COULD change, things COULD get better... .maybe they actually ARE getting better, maybe I'M being too picky... .BUT when he devalues my actions I feel like I want to just GO and be out from underneath any of the negativity!  It is a very strong urge to be free... .But maybe I feel guilty about giving up if I'm just not seeing positivity strong enough?

Thoughts?

[Lolster]

he DOES have short spurts of positivity in an otherwise negatively-focused mindset... .I somehow grasp ahold of these pieces of positivity as a reason to not be able to justify the negative way I feel inside... .

Thoughts?

They throw breadcrumbs occasionally to keep you hooked. You say yourself that he's consistent with the devaluation.  He will use your faith as a means to keep you in confusion and as a reason to make YOU keep on working at it.  Mine was a Christian, but only when I didn't tow the line were these beliefs evident. 

[thereishope]

he DOES have short spurts of positivity in an otherwise negatively-focused mindset... .I somehow grasp ahold of these pieces of positivity as a reason to not be able to justify the negative way I feel inside... .

Thoughts?

They throw breadcrumbs occasionally to keep you hooked. You say yourself that he's consistent with the devaluation.  He will use your faith as a means to keep you in confusion and as a reason to make YOU keep on working at it.  Mine was a Christian, but only when I didn't tow the line were these beliefs evident. 

I have been thinking about that... .that if I wasn't here "trying so hard" to do XYZ which allows the BPD to manifest or perpetuate... .he would actually be responsible for much more of "his own stuff"... .Like this r/s has been destructive and toxic and has hindered both of us from doing more spiritually with our lives... .?

[thereishope]

I have also discounted greatly the fact that numerous people have wondered very strongly why I am still here... .Like they can SEE the negative and the unhealthy side way more clearly and somehow I have overlooked/justified/discounted it to my own detriment... .

[hope4tomorrow]

Hi ThereIsHope,

I have read many of your posts over the past week or so.  Many of them I could have written myself.  I too originally went to the undecided board, but if I am truthful with myself I am mentally already out.  I too am a Christian and feel the guilt of leaving and not sticking it out.  I too have kids to consider.  I often wonder why I feel guilty leaving when he doesn't seem to feel guilty about all the stuff he has put me through.  I also keep waiting for that moment I will just know that it is time to leave.  It seems like anytime I am feeling more strongly about leaving, he will do something really sweet and kind to make me question myself.  The "nice" times make me want to hold on.  But I have realized even in the "good" times, things are still not great.  It is still not a respectful caring relationship.  It is just without conflict for the moment.  Good has become a relative term.  I've also asked myself if "good" is good enough.

I wish I had an answer to the "why" because I have asked myself that same question many times.  I will be praying for you in your decision making, and look forward to seeing how everything works out for you.

[thereishope]

Hi ThereIsHope,

I have read many of your posts over the past week or so.  Many of them I could have written myself.  I too originally went to the undecided board, but if I am truthful with myself I am mentally already out.  I too am a Christian and feel the guilt of leaving and not sticking it out.  I too have kids to consider.  I often wonder why I feel guilty leaving when he doesn't seem to feel guilty about all the stuff he has put me through.  I also keep waiting for that moment I will just know that it is time to leave.  It seems like anytime I am feeling more strongly about leaving, he will do something really sweet and kind to make me question myself.  The "nice" times make me want to hold on.  But I have realized even in the "good" times, things are still not great.  It is still not a respectful caring relationship.  It is just without conflict for the moment.  Good has become a relative term.  I've also asked myself if "good" is good enough.

I wish I had an answer to the "why" because I have asked myself that same question many times.  I will be praying for you in your decision making, and look forward to seeing how everything works out for you.

Thank you for your response!  Your words as well could be my own!  I agree that even during the "good" times, I just DON'T HAVE PEACE!  As far as I know, I am authentically seeking to be right with the LORD, to do right to my hubby, etc... .God PROMISES HIS CHILDREN PEACE & JOY even in the midst of suffering... .Paul had peace and joy being beaten and persecuted, etc... .  So truly, BPD is a PEACE KILLER.  As one who wants to be useful, fruitful, a joy, drink of fresh water, encouragement, help, servant of people, I find I truly believe that I will not be able to exist inside of this bound, dark, oppressed situation for much longer... .I actually put together some notes from some Bible messages I've heard since the end of July and I believe the LORD is saying something to me... .All the messages were about being holy/righteous, and about using our tongue for good or evil... .MOST OF WHICH uBPDh is doing the opposite of, if I'm honest with myself... .If you are interested I can share my notes with you if you would like them... .It's basically just Scripture, some notes from John MacArthur (from his study Bible) and some of Alistair Begg's messages written out... .Turned into 20 pages typed!

Thanks again for letting me know I'm not alone out here... .I needed your words today.   

[wishfulthinking]

My BPD/NPDh is on good behavior right now.  I am skeptical on how long it will last.  I see glimpses of his rage, but it never becomes full blown.  Quick summary.  I had him removed by police beginning of last month due to a rage in which he was physical.  He figured out I was serious and won't tolerate it anymore.  He started studying the bible the way he should be and giving his issues to God the way he should be.  He hasn't raged at all, but has been angry.  He has controlled himself.  He is more the man I married and not the person he turned into.  I wonder... .when will the ball drop? and why couldn't he be this way the whole time if he can be this way now?  I find I have animosity and anger and bitterness towards him and find myself getting angry at him.  I'm not a person who freaks out over little things, but I find myself always "on guard" and taking everything he says personally and negatively, which he tells me is not the way it's intended.  I can't seem to break free from the habits he trained me into during his months of full BPD behavior.  It's hard.  I'm trying to give it to God, too... .but it's hard.

[Crumbling]

1.    

2.  We are also Christians.  That means, day to day, you both have a code that you can refer to, other than you or him, to find common ground when you don't see eye to eye.  That means someone somewhere somehow is looking after YOU.  Carrying for YOU.  Loving YOU.  And God has prepared you for this moment right now, whatever you are facing.  And you are exactly where you are meant to be.  I would have not made it through yr 3 with my BPDh without knowing this, and hanging on to it for dear life, sometimes.

3.  I don't know the right way to battle the belittlement.  I know we are at a place where he is really doing well at not doing it.  Well, no, he still does it, but it's nothing now.  Because I give him a look, he thinks for a moment, and either rewords what he wants to say, or laughs, or apologizes.  I say that to say there is hope.  We also have the scars that show the battles we fought to get here.  I would point it out to him, over and over, that he was 'being bossy' and to 'not tell me what to do', just wanting him to see/feel/experience how it felt.  When that didn't work, I used a lot of sarcasm.  I'd agree with him, that he was absolutely right, that I was a total idiot.  And how I forgot the I had never taken out the trash before and could never have achieved such a heroic feat if it weren't for him and his kind and ever generous advice.  That didn't work either, he'd get mad and tell me where to go. Eventually, I think he realized how it was crushing my soul, and started making the effort to change it.  

Prayers for you and yours, c.  

[BuildingFromScratch]

The thing is, for most of us we have been or in your case are being slowly dismantled. They will blame you for everything. They will do things for no apparent reason that hurt you. And it's all behind closed doors, so no one in your life will understand. Without peace for yourself, you will slowly have less and less to give. If you do break it off though, be decisive. Because when you leave them or threaten to leave them, that's when they will betray and hurt you the most.

You asked "why do you look past it?" For me, it was a delusional belief that she was better than she was. And also my mode of coping with trauma was to disassociate, tolerate and ignore. All I can say, is that real love, it pours out of you from your own love of yourself. It doesn't martyr yourself for someone. Good luck, I hope things work out for you, whatever you choose.

[thereishope]

My BPD/NPDh is on good behavior right now.  I am skeptical on how long it will last.  I see glimpses of his rage, but it never becomes full blown.  Quick summary.  I had him removed by police beginning of last month due to a rage in which he was physical.  He figured out I was serious and won't tolerate it anymore.  He started studying the bible the way he should be and giving his issues to God the way he should be.  He hasn't raged at all, but has been angry.  He has controlled himself.  He is more the man I married and not the person he turned into.  I wonder... .when will the ball drop? and why couldn't he be this way the whole time if he can be this way now?  I find I have animosity and anger and bitterness towards him and find myself getting angry at him.  I'm not a person who freaks out over little things, but I find myself always "on guard" and taking everything he says personally and negatively, which he tells me is not the way it's intended.  I can't seem to break free from the habits he trained me into during his months of full BPD behavior.  It's hard.  I'm trying to give it to God, too... .but it's hard.

I understand.  I have felt these same feelings!  I could have written your same words... .my uBPDh has been showing a little more interest in God lately too... ."Let's go to Calvary (church) next week... .", etc... .listening to the Gaithers, and a few Bible messages online... .His outbursts have been fewer, less harsh, recovery time has seemed to lessen... .I'm trying to use different tools in communicating too... .

On the other hand, no matter what growth, good stuff happens, I just can't seem to "FEEL OK" about things.  Why?  I am asking myself this very much right now... .I almost feel like our life is a movie and isn't really real because what I thought was real (the IDEALIZATION stage... .his LOVE for me) turned out to be UNSAFE... .NOT LASTING, etc... .  So now I am having a hard time FEELING ANYTHING... .I can't feel HIS love for me... .I can't feel MY love for him... .and I still find myself wanting to leave... .It really really stinks.

[thereishope]

1.    

2.  We are also Christians.  That means, day to day, you both have a code that you can refer to, other than you or him, to find common ground when you don't see eye to eye.  That means someone somewhere somehow is looking after YOU.  Carrying for YOU.  Loving YOU.  And God has prepared you for this moment right now, whatever you are facing.  And you are exactly where you are meant to be.  I would have not made it through yr 3 with my BPDh without knowing this, and hanging on to it for dear life, sometimes.

3.  I don't know the right way to battle the belittlement.  I know we are at a place where he is really doing well at not doing it.  Well, no, he still does it, but it's nothing now.  Because I give him a look, he thinks for a moment, and either rewords what he wants to say, or laughs, or apologizes.  I say that to say there is hope.  We also have the scars that show the battles we fought to get here.  I would point it out to him, over and over, that he was 'being bossy' and to 'not tell me what to do', just wanting him to see/feel/experience how it felt.  When that didn't work, I used a lot of sarcasm.  I'd agree with him, that he was absolutely right, that I was a total idiot.  And how I forgot the I had never taken out the trash before and could never have achieved such a heroic feat if it weren't for him and his kind and ever generous advice.  That didn't work either, he'd get mad and tell me where to go. Eventually, I think he realized how it was crushing my soul, and started making the effort to change it.  

Prayers for you and yours, c.  

I'm happy you are experiencing this! This seems like REAL, AUTHENTIC CHANGE on his part!  Amen! 

I think we are still in the "he is blind to what he is doing" place... .He believes/feels what he feels and I really don't think it matters to him what I feel, to be totally honest.  In times of sensitivity he tells me he does, and that he "doesn't want to hurt me", but when the rubber meets the road, in matters that concern something he feels strongly about, what I think truly does not matter to him. His way goes... .I'm trying to find a way to stand up against this in order to help us both.  My two decisions are to 1.)keep trying when I'm not really sure it's going to change at all, or 2.)let go and get on with a life in which I can be more submitted to THE LORD without a man hindering it.  Not sure which way I'm going yet, but right now #2 is becoming much more of a reality to me. 

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers! Again, I am very very happy you are seeing growth and positivity in your r/s!   

[thereishope]

The thing is, for most of us we have been or in your case are being slowly dismantled. They will blame you for everything. They will do things for no apparent reason that hurt you. And it's all behind closed doors, so no one in your life will understand. Without peace for yourself, you will slowly have less and less to give. If you do break it off though, be decisive. Because when you leave them or threaten to leave them, that's when they will betray and hurt you the most.

You asked "why do you look past it?" For me, it was a delusional belief that she was better than she was. And also my mode of coping with trauma was to disassociate, tolerate and ignore. All I can say, is that real love, it pours out of you from your own love of yourself. It doesn't martyr yourself for someone. Good luck, I hope things work out for you, whatever you choose.

These are wise words.  Thank you.  "Being slowly dismantled" is a perfect description.  I think I'm pretty much at the dismantled stage.       I now feel like we are living a movie-score, going through the motions because that is "what we are used to"... .I can't really "feel" anything anymore... .I see his good actions when they happen, but I don't "feel" love.  I see his bad actions when they happen and I go through the motions of all I'm "supposed to do", validate his feeling, speak the truth, but I don't "feel" anything but ANGRY that he's being an a... .hole again.  That's the TRUTH.  Also TRUE - when you love someone you DON'T treat them like garbage.  Period.  You are patient and kind, even when they upset or frustrate you, and you both sacrificially give of yourselves to better/benefit/uplift and encourage the other person... .THIS IS RIGHT.  Not living RIGHT for a long time does really yucky things to a person... .= DISMANTLED.  Life is hard.  We certainly don't need the guy standing beside us in the foxhole of life slowly stabbing at us with a bayonet... .bludgeoning the life out of us when they should be "having our back" and defending us against life's ills against all odds... .It is a horrible contradiction that can only lead to the death of a r/s... .   

[hope4tomorrow]

... .I actually put together some notes from some Bible messages I've heard since the end of July and I believe the LORD is saying something to me... .All the messages were about being holy/righteous, and about using our tongue for good or evil... .MOST OF WHICH uBPDh is doing the opposite of, if I'm honest with myself... .If you are interested I can share my notes with you if you would like them... .It's basically just Scripture, some notes from John MacArthur (from his study Bible) and some of Alistair Begg's messages written out... .Turned into 20 pages typed! [/quote]
I would love to see what you put together, maybe you can private message it to me, or I can give you my email via private message.  I have been getting small nudges from God lately too, in things I am reading.  I also agree with your last post, my uBPDh is trying right now also, but there are still little jabs and there is still no peace.  I am still on edge.  I feel so overwhelmed with this decision.  I look at my kids and see how much fun they have with dad at times.  But then other times I see the fear in their little faces when he is yelling or blowing up about some small little infraction that they did.  I think back to my growing up years and I was never afraid of my dad... .maybe scared of what my consequence would be, but never scared of him.

My uBPDh has been very distant from God for a few years now, which I think is affecting a lot of things.  He has suddenly wanted to start doing date nights and work on us, yet he refuses to go to counseling himself or to marriage counseling.  I really don't feel that things will change (long term) without that, but he thinks he can fix himself on his own.  The crazy roller coaster of emotions is getting old.

He told me last night when I asked him about being so different lately and his response was that he has realized I won't take his crap anymore and that if he does something totally out of line again, I will probably leave him.  And he is right.  But again I wonder how long he can really keep it all together.  Still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[wishfulthinking]

It is so hard to believe in good after all that's been experienced.  Can we ever get to that point?  I can feel more secure and confident every day, but as soon as the next inevitable rage happens does it all disappear?  Do we start over?  Can I look past it?  Mine also knows I'm set to end things and that's his catalyst for change, but can love be enough to overcome BPD?  With God's guidance perhaps?  Or am I disillusioned and just hopeful because I do love this man, even if it's not the same love I once felt before the wrath of BPD kicked in.  I see glimpses of the BPD/NPD in phrases and moments which remind me it's still there.  Will take no blame and wants to blame others, tells me of how much of a "good dude" he is and others just hate him for it.  How it's still my fault he attacked me those times due to my words being as bad as physical violence (yeah, because begging him to leave or let me leave till things calm down is HORRIBLE... .so much for boundaries).  But I digress... .how much is an act?  How much is real?  Can they really BE this nice person they seem?  How long can it last?  Etc.  so full of questions and so unsure.

[thereishope]

It is so hard to believe in good after all that's been experienced.  Can we ever get to that point?  I can feel more secure and confident every day, but as soon as the next inevitable rage happens does it all disappear?  Do we start over?  Can I look past it?  Mine also knows I'm set to end things and that's his catalyst for change, but can love be enough to overcome BPD?  With God's guidance perhaps?  Or am I disillusioned and just hopeful because I do love this man, even if it's not the same love I once felt before the wrath of BPD kicked in.  I see glimpses of the BPD/NPD in phrases and moments which remind me it's still there.  Will take no blame and wants to blame others, tells me of how much of a "good dude" he is and others just hate him for it.  How it's still my fault he attacked me those times due to my words being as bad as physical violence (yeah, because begging him to leave or let me leave till things calm down is HORRIBLE... .so much for boundaries).  But I digress... .how much is an act?  How much is real?  Can they really BE this nice person they seem?  How long can it last?  Etc.  so full of questions and so unsure.

I hear you, wishfulthinking... .I am constantly second-guessing everything in my head... .Honestly simply tired of the whole ordeal... .