From leaving to staying to undecided

[mapys]

Hi everyone!

I am back, unfortunately   (in some sense).

So a while back - I think it was in march I finally left my uBPDgf - it was a tough call but I finalized it. During this process and self discovery I learned much about myself and I understand that I have a lots of issues myself. So I understand that I am not as fluffy as it might seem (though I knew it before - just not in such detail). So my doubts about what if, what if I did something differently, let some things slide etc, would made any difference... .On the other hand I was under a pressure from the gf - she begged for a meeting, she begged for a second chance. I gave into that and agreed... .you know how it ended  So once again she says - relationships are hard, all you have to do is to want this relationship. I don't agree with this - but ok. She convinced me - give it a one more try - what do you have to loose? I thought - OK, indeed - I have better insight now in all this and I have doubts - I must try.

So it begins again - I must say this time everything is much much much better than the first time (so it seems) - she agrees to everything, there are no stupid scenes - everything seems normal. But I always knew (thanks to these boards) that it won't last. Secretly I was waiting when the devil's tail will show up. And it did. Stupid arguments started all over again. Night speeches - and god forbid I will say - darling - let's sleep and talk in the morning. Then there was too much sex, then not enough - again I am confused - what is that she wants? She gives me permission to tell everything on my mind. "If you don't want to visit my parents - don't". I use this opportunity - not good enough - I am ass who doesn't like her parents. Then she leaves for the work and after a goodbye she asks - when will you be more available. Long story short she couldn't just say she wants a trip abroad - no the manipulation game. The dates must be set without any chance of choice. I hate that. She knows I have a very busy schedule but no consideration. When I confront her - "All women do this, it is in our nature to talk, I am sorry". Of course my day is ruined - I think weather I can or cannot find a spot. I say a few days, maybe week. She had planned 2 weeks. WOW? Not good enough - again. She knows I feel upset about this - and asks if everything is ok. Being honest I say - no - I feel ___ty - why do you keep doing these things - planting these innocent remarks and questions - you know this and that. So the whole conversation went from her defending her position that she didn't think of it, that she is a woman and needs to talk. Afterwards this conversation went offensive - that I am inconsiderate - I make her feel bad, I don't think about her feelings when I accuse her. But hell - she was the first one to invite me ta talk about how I feel.

Typically focus went from me to her in a snap. I hate that. I feel we are returning at square one.

I want to leave her but I am not sure. I know in my heart that she doesn't understand me ore the grownup's world - but how can I plan a family with such person? What about kids? I want kids but I don't want them to grow up in such chaos. She is a child herself - she gets her freshly washed dress dirty in matter of minutes. It is like she never switches on her brain - to consider various surrounding factors (in so many areas). And still I am undecided - I want to wait for something though I know - nothing will change.

I guess this was a rant but please comment

[pavilion]

As someone who has lived with a pwBPD for year I can really relate to your struggle. Many of the tactics your partner used I am on the receiving end of "relationships take effort. If you have the will you can make it work" . Aren't they great at spin! Anyway my now ex was twice divorced and had children with the last wife. Now I know him I can guess what those children endured and still do - inconsistent parenting, manipulation, fear.

His behaviour did effect my 11 year old daughter because she was seen as a threat to us.

I am thankful that I didnt have children with him. My advice would be to get out now and look toward a healthier future. I think you know that anyway and maybe need that reassurance.

Love is not about dependency, need, hurt and lust.

Why not spend some time thinking about what a healthy relationship would look like for you.

[mapys]

I have thought about what a loving (really) relationship would look like but I am also concerned about the choices available. What I see around me is chaos. Other relationships fall apart as well (my friends - none of them are truly happy [they manage somehow "for the kids"]) - at this point it seems there are very few "normal" people left. Those girls in my nearest surroundings - they don't seem very mature as well. So I would be left with blind hope. Though I know I would be better off alone than with her. It is interesting weather truly happy relationships exist or is it just something they write in the books? Seriously - is it even achievable?

And when I am left with such thoughts I convince me - it isn't THAT bad... .So yes-that is the rubber band pulling me back...

The best thing that before our so to speak "huge" argument I received I pocket knife from her (ok she gave me the gift card and I chose what I want). She truly explained all this arguing with the fact that this present was a knife. I knew the gift shouldn't have been anything sharp - I knew it - that is why all this is happening. And this blame reverting to some external circumstances i very common. Superstition.

[pavilion]

I have thought about what a loving (really) relationship would look like but I am also concerned about the choices available. What I see around me is chaos. Other relationships fall apart as well (my friends - none of them are truly happy [they manage somehow "for the kids"]) - at this point it seems there are very few "normal" people left. Those girls in my nearest surroundings - they don't seem very mature as well. So I would be left with blind hope. Though I know I would be better off alone than with her. It is interesting weather truly happy relationships exist or is it just something they write in the books? Seriously - is it even achievable?

And when I am left with such thoughts I convince me - it isn't THAT bad... .So yes-that is the rubber band pulling me back...

The best thing that before our so to speak "huge" argument I received I pocket knife from her (ok she gave me the gift card and I chose what I want). She truly explained all this arguing with the fact that this present was a knife. I knew the gift shouldn't have been anything sharp - I knew it - that is why all this is happening. And this blame reverting to some external circumstances i very common. Superstition.

That's a good question and something I have had to ask myself too (and still do). There certainly are a lot of messed up people out there! The good thing is you will have a radar now. You will see the signs early on. There is a lovely post on the leaving board from somebody... .what it looks like one year on (or something). It's worth a read. No relationship is perfect but nobody should have to endure emotional or physical abuse. I'm not saying there aren't good in these people, there is otherwise none of us would stay would we?

I would like to think that I will eventually find a relationship which is relatively equal and where the other person is able to reflect on their part in the partnership. Maybe I am naïve too but, as you have said, it's better to be alone than in an abusive relationship.

[willtimeheal]

The way my therapist put it... .by staying I am closing off all other opportunities and options for myself. I am not available to anyone else so how can I meet new people and find the "right " person for me. I am still with my BPD and she finally wanted to.spend time with me the other day. When I got to her house she explained to me that I was  the reason she was  unhappy. I was trying to make her into someone she wasn't. She will never be happy. I am pretty sure now she is incapable of being happy. Today I was thinking about it and how she will make remarks to me and then giggle or say "just kidding" after. They aren't remarks they are put downs. They are ways of making me.feel bad about myself. Today I realized I have no reason to feel bad about the things she remarks on... .her remarks are.made.out of pure jealousy. I can't tell you what to do but there are a lot of good people in the world. Do give up and settle. I am not going to.

[mapys]

Well I am not sure I want to settle - basically deep inside I know I won't settle with her - I have had many glimpses in what is to come. Everything happened so rapidly - it hasn't been even 2 years since I met her. I really have developed the feeling that I know her for at least 10 years tho I know it is not true. I like the feeling but from the start it was obvious that it isn't right to go at such pace. I still have some obligation feelings tho I know I don't owe her anything. I have spent lots of money on her, to make her happy and still in our last conversation she played the victim cart - oh I am so vulnerable, I want to help my parents, I don't have any money (but never she says or admits that basically I cover so many costs which she doesn't anymore - meaning she has savings now). She postures herself as very independent and self sufficient but never pays for herself. Only when there is a tiny amount needed - then yes - she shows me how she can pay for herself. Everything else - I am not here (that was your initiative etc.)

I red here that people after a thorough inventory cannot name anything genuinely good about their partner. Well if I think about this - same goes for me. I cannot say anything genuinely good about her - that is a real gem an is to be valued. I will admit - I was somehow addicted to the sex and her body but now with my eyes more open I see that it isn't so good - it is ok and that is it. I think about it - no - I don't live together with a body, I live together with a human being (spiritual being) - what is more important? Personality! And if person doesn't have a personality but jumps between several - it brings up enormous confusion - what is real, what isn't. And the most annoying thing - she accuses me of being inconsistent in my actions (is this reflection or what?)

I don't know how to start a conversation with her about separation. I don't want to hurt her - I want her to understand that not any 2 people can be together. Every time I bring up this she panics says  -  and what next - you think you will find a new person and everything will be peachy? No, relationships are hard and you will struggle as well - If you can't work things out with me you won't with other, but if it is what you want - please go ahead. If I say ok, I think that will be best for both of us - no no please don't leave I know I have hurt you bla bla bla - I can change.     It is like a trap and the only exit is violent? HOW? Previously she also got mad at me, made my life a hell but never would leave or let go. Whats up with this energetic vampire?

How to structure the conversation for maximally calm and peaceful exit? I know we won't work and she knows it also. I can overcome my fear but how to help her overcome hers? What's the strategy here?  Our firs departure was such that I was very cold and tried to ignore her weeps - didn't like the situation but what else I could have done?

Thanks!

[pavilion]

Well I am not sure I want to settle - basically deep inside I know I won't settle with her - I have had many glimpses in what is to come. Everything happened so rapidly - it hasn't been even 2 years since I met her. I really have developed the feeling that I know her for at least 10 years tho I know it is not true. I like the feeling but from the start it was obvious that it isn't right to go at such pace. I still have some obligation feelings tho I know I don't owe her anything. I have spent lots of money on her, to make her happy and still in our last conversation she played the victim cart - oh I am so vulnerable, I want to help my parents, I don't have any money (but never she says or admits that basically I cover so many costs which she doesn't anymore - meaning she has savings now). She postures herself as very independent and self sufficient but never pays for herself. Only when there is a tiny amount needed - then yes - she shows me how she can pay for herself. Everything else - I am not here (that was your initiative etc.)

I red here that people after a thorough inventory cannot name anything genuinely good about their partner. Well if I think about this - same goes for me. I cannot say anything genuinely good about her - that is a real gem an is to be valued. I will admit - I was somehow addicted to the sex and her body but now with my eyes more open I see that it isn't so good - it is ok and that is it. I think about it - no - I don't live together with a body, I live together with a human being (spiritual being) - what is more important? Personality! And if person doesn't have a personality but jumps between several - it brings up enormous confusion - what is real, what isn't. And the most annoying thing - she accuses me of being inconsistent in my actions (is this reflection or what?)

I don't know how to start a conversation with her about separation. I don't want to hurt her - I want her to understand that not any 2 people can be together. Every time I bring up this she panics says  -  and what next - you think you will find a new person and everything will be peachy? No, relationships are hard and you will struggle as well - If you can't work things out with me you won't with other, but if it is what you want - please go ahead. If I say ok, I think that will be best for both of us - no no please don't leave I know I have hurt you bla bla bla - I can change.     It is like a trap and the only exit is violent? HOW? Previously she also got mad at me, made my life a hell but never would leave or let go. Whats up with this energetic vampire?

How to structure the conversation for maximally calm and peaceful exit? I know we won't work and she knows it also. I can overcome my fear but how to help her overcome hers? What's the strategy here?  Our firs departure was such that I was very cold and tried to ignore her weeps - didn't like the situation but what else I could have done?

Thanks!

Ending the relationship is never going to be easy! I also had the guilt trip and the tears whenever I mentioned the possibility that our relationship wasn't working. There are some great articles on here about ending a relationship with someone with BPD. I took the gradual approach -Sewing the seed that things weren't right, gradually withdrawing any emotional input into the relationship but eventually it came down to saying "I have to end this relationship as it stands but would like to remain friends". I honestly would like to remain friends with him but I don't see it working for him. Time will tell.

Remember though that her reaction is her responsibility not yours. If you are concerned about suicide attempts you can make sure you have the appropriate telephone numbers available. If she has friends and family around make sure you have some of their numbers to hand. It sounds as though you are her lifeline and that really isn't a good place to be. No wonder you feel trapped!

Hang on in there. You are amongst friends.

[pavilion]

Oh and hurting her will be inevitable but you are hurting too.

[willtimeheal]

This isn't about her anymore... .it's about you. It's about doing what is best and right for you.  You can't save her but you can take the steps.to save yourself.

What you said about your BPD always playing the victim. Mine does that. I haven't heard from her in two days. She wants  to go to a show. I took her to the show ... .That was two days ago and I haven't heard from her since.

This is about you... .do what is best for you.