Trying to think this through . .

[Someday . . .]

My dd25 has a very long history of not being able to complete school, classes, keep appts. etc... .   Yet, at the same time, I feel that it is imperative that she has hope in her life.   The ideal solution (to me) would be for her to validate her 'limitations' and work within those parameters.  It has been at least 3 years since she has tried classes or any sort.   She plans on starting a phlebotomy class in 10 days.  It will be coming out of her SSI money so even if she fails she will not 'get the wisdom' from failing as it will not affect her credit rating (it automatically gets taken out of her account which I am representative payee). 

So here is where I need feedback:  Since the chances of her failing are great,  I would like to 'stipulate' (?) that if she takes the class and that it is too difficult to do (after we've paid for the class - $2,500) that we get something back . . I would love to stipulate for her to see a therapist, but since she is dead set against seeing a therapist I feel that it would be more money wasted.   So. . .does anyone feel that I could have a conversation with her before we pay for the class that would be effective and that we 'get' something out of it if she isn't able to attend class?  Or do you feel that it is ridiculous to ask for something back?   Any ideas?  Suggestions?   How have others handled this situation?   I feel that an effective way would be to have an honest conversation with her to state my concerns and get feedback back from her.    Still if anyone has suggestions I would love to hear them.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi Someday! 

I'm not sure BPD people learn by failing harder.  I imagine finding that she can't complete a class brings a lot of shameful feelings on its own.  People with BPD are ruled by shame and guilt.  Sometimes it's so hard to see the hurt little girl inside your daughter because she can be so willful and defiant. 

The money is coming out of her SSI.  Isn't she paying for the class through her own money? Do you take the entire check to contribute towards rent, food etc and this would be taken from you?  I'm wondering if there is something positive you could add for her attending school.  For instance, as long as you are going to school and doing your best you can... .I'm not sure what you could add to give her an incentive to keep going because I'm not sure of your circumstances.  Maybe have more access to your car if she doesn't have one?  Maybe a celebration lunch with you at the end of every successful week? 

Instead of looking at this as another chance to fail do you think you could look at it as another chance to succeed?   If this were my daughter I would talk to her about why she's going and what she hopes to get out of it.  I'd voice my fears about her not being able to complete the class and ask her why she thinks she hasn't been successful in the past.  I'd ask what she needs from me and from herself in order to be successful.  Then I'd put aside that negative little voice in my head and cheerlead to the best of my ability.

This is a great opportunity for you to validate her choices and feelings.  Have you read the tools on the right hand side?  I'd suggest Validate the Valid and Don't React, Respond with S.E.T. 

-crazed

[js friend]

Hi Someday,

You have probably resolved this already but I just wanted to say that I understand your frstration, but I think that it is great that your dd is trying.

My dd19 has tried many classes and I think the last one she lasted in was the longest, and that lasted for 1 month!

I know my dd feels bad already that she doesnt complete anything. She has her peers and family memebrs around the same age to compare herself to and she is aware that she is lagging behind, so I think any stipulations you put on your dd will just be a reminder to her that you expect failure.

The same goes for any excitment around your dd doing this new class. From what i have experienced even showing too much of an interest can put too pressure of high expectations on pwBPD too.


The best conversation I think you can have with your dd around these classes I think would be how you can support her so im thinking along the lines like ... . Will it be easy for your dd to get to these classes or could you provide transport on certain days... . Will your dd need to buy special equipment or could you be the person she needs to practice on ... . etc.

My dd19 limitiations are often that the classes are too long, and she gets bored or that they are early morning. (My dd functions better in the afternoon)so I have tried to steer her in the direction of short courses that dont involve too much travel.

So Before my dd last attempt at college we sat down and we had a converstaion of how I could support her while she attended as she has a young baby now. Dd had a few good suggestions as her main concern was over childcare So some days I picked up gd for dd  while was at college, cooked and got her ready for bed before dd came home. We also looked at where dd could go for support in college if she had any problems(because there has always been some issue or another everytime)

Doing little things like that has helped our r/s and dd was open enough to able to share with me sooner her feelings that college wasnt working out for her. I validated her feelings. She was exhausted trying to stay onto top of everything and I knew it... . but she plodded on a few more weeks until she decided that now  just wasnt the right time to go back to college and she left.

And yeh I did feel a little  disappointed that she didnt complete college again, but knew that I had done as much as i could to support her... . and in turn she trusted me enough to tell me that she was leaving because previous years she has kept the pretence up of still going to college.

Realistically your dd may not finish this class and it is a strong possiblity as so may my dd, but I think that prospect comes along with the Acceptance of who she is. She will be loosing her own money which may be the incentive that she needs to keep going, but if it isnt enough to stick with the class, I think you should applaud your dd for still trying.

 

[Someday . . .]

Crazedncrazysmom and J's friend,  thanks for your feedback!  It has ended up that my dd25 had wanted to start class this coming Saturday (it's a weekend class for 10 weeks) and just tried to register yesterday and found out that she was too late, therefore she may try another class that is Monday - Thursday in the evenings.   I will definitely take your advice into play everytime I communicate with her about this class - thanks!    I still can't help but think that having her try to take another class when it is so obvious that she hasn't been able to do a class since she was 15 somehow seems that I am validating the invalid . . do you know what I mean?

[MammaMia]

Someday

 

Do you think your dd missed the deadline on purpose? 

My dBPDs has done this many times, especially when it comes to applying for work.  I believe it is his way of avoiding rejection and/or the expectations of others.  He hates being "judged" (his word) by anyone, and sadly has a way of talking himself out of whatever he was anxiously pursuing. Then he will usually say something like... . "well, I really did not want to do that anyway"... .   Frankly, I

worry that he is not capable of steady employment of any kind. 

I really do wish your dd success.  Good luck.

[js friend]

Someday

 

Do you think your dd missed the deadline on purpose? 

My dBPDs has done this many times, especially when it comes to applying for work.  I believe it is his way of avoiding rejection and/or the expectations of others.  He hates being "judged" (his word) by anyone, and sadly has a way of talking himself out of whatever he was anxiously pursuing. Then he will usually say something like... . "well, I really did not want to do that anyway"... .   Frankly, I

worry that he is not capable of steady employment of any kind. 

I really do wish your dd success.  Good luck.

Someday ... . I think I know what you mean, but try not to give up hope.

I think it is great that your dd is only looking at doing short courses, and I think that there may be more room for success when the end date is just round the corner.  I like the sound of your dd doing evening classes too. I think something like that would be great for my dd but she says there isnt anything interesting in any of the evening classes that she would like to do atm. Still I'll keep trying to steer her in the direction of shorter courses, and even the ones with more mature adults in the classess but she has always gone for the f/T which will take 1 academic year to complete. Unrealistic for my dd... . but she keeps enrolling for them.

I wish you and your dd all the best and let us know any future updates



MammaMia,

I would agree. Expectations and fear of rejection are biggies when it comes to our pwBPD, but also we need to remember that their thought patterns are forever changing, they are often influenced by what jobs or studies their friends are doing, and even what someone they have just met are doing. Because they have no real sense of self they are forever changing and trying to find an identity which limits their decision making.

Sometimes my dd cannot even make a simple decision about what to eat sometimes... . and she also has a bad memeory and is very forgetful. I think the same may be true for your son. She is unable to make any real  firm decisions about a job/career she would like to persue. And she gets bored easily.

So far off the top of my head I can think of at least 8 professions she has mentioned since leaving school. At least 3 of them she has made real efforts to get into, been accepted at college to study only to drop out a few weeks later, and then months down the line she will be talking about it again and applying for the same course again., meanwhile she is getting further and further behind her friends

SO yes your son may be missing deadlines on purpose... . or another way of looking at it he could just be forgetful and may just need a reminder.

But then again it could also be quite possiblity true that by the time it comes to it, your son really may have changed his mind like he says.