My ex friend, uNPD/ schizotypal

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi there!

I think I have posted about this former friend before, not sure though. Long story short, we know each other for over 20 years but we didnt have much contact lately for various reasons. But her husband left her and now she wants to hang out again.

All fine so far, we met twice and disaster happened: she was very arrogant, said to my face that Im not of her level, my friends arent good enough and many other "lovely statements".

I had let many things go over the years and kept my distance cause somehow her sense of superiority was annoying me. So this time I spoke up and asked her if she listened to what she was saying. I confronted her. She gave me smirks. I told her she is uncapable of empathy and of putting herself on other´s people´s shoes (she has a special needs kid and wants to move to another country and leave him behind... .all a fantasy but very disturbing anyway). And that was it.

A couple of days later she sends me an email. "Im sorry IF I hurt you". I reassured her that she had hurt me. Apparently it made it worse cause she escalated on her superiority and after 3 emails she didnt answer me. On the last one she said she had always tried to help me (cause shes superior, of course) and when I asked how and when, no reply. Also she said indirectly that poor people (meaning me) are always angry. As if her rrogance and disrespect dont make people angry! Her husband left cause he got tired of being treated as second-class!

After that, no contact. It was my birthday last week and no phonecall from her. I didnt expect one anyway, given the situation. I was surprised she greeted me on facebook and I thanked her. I dont want any contact with her and Im fine with it.

Here comes the fun part  . Today, a week after my birthday she sends a message on facebook inviting me to go out next saturday night (invited me and a common "friend". WOW! Dont they have ANY capability of seeing reality? What makes her believe I will accept going out or meeting her ever again?

Ok, I understand she sees me as a way to get something: she wants to go out and find another husband. She doesnt have many friends (if any at all), but still, she thinks I have zero self-steem? I guess she thinks shes doing me a favour by allowing me be near her... .LOL.

I dont know how to answer that. First thought was to say I cant cause Im busy. Maybe I shouldnt even respond. Any ideas? THANK YOU!

[Louise7777]

Hi there!

I think I have posted about this former friend before, not sure though. Long story short, we know each other for over 20 years but we didnt have much contact lately for various reasons. But her husband left her and now she wants to hang out again.

All fine so far, we met twice and disaster happened: she was very arrogant, said to my face that Im not of her level, my friends arent good enough and many other "lovely statements".

I had let many things go over the years and kept my distance cause somehow her sense of superiority was annoying me. So this time I spoke up and asked her if she listened to what she was saying. I confronted her. She gave me smirks. I told her she is uncapable of empathy and of putting herself on other´s people´s shoes (she has a special needs kid and wants to move to another country and leave him behind... .all a fantasy but very disturbing anyway). And that was it.

A couple of days later she sends me an email. "Im sorry IF I hurt you". I reassured her that she had hurt me. Apparently it made it worse cause she escalated on her superiority and after 3 emails she didnt answer me. On the last one she said she had always tried to help me (cause shes superior, of course) and when I asked how and when, no reply. Also she said indirectly that poor people (meaning me) are always angry. As if her rrogance and disrespect dont make people angry! Her husband left cause he got tired of being treated as second-class!

After that, no contact. It was my birthday last week and no phonecall from her. I didnt expect one anyway, given the situation. I was surprised she greeted me on facebook and I thanked her. I dont want any contact with her and Im fine with it.

Here comes the fun part  . Today, a week after my birthday she sends a message on facebook inviting me to go out next saturday night (invited me and a common "friend". WOW! Dont they have ANY capability of seeing reality? What makes her believe I will accept going out or meeting her ever again?

Ok, I understand she sees me as a way to get something: she wants to go out and find another husband. She doesnt have many friends (if any at all), but still, she thinks I have zero self-steem? I guess she thinks shes doing me a favour by allowing me be near her... .LOL.

I dont know how to answer that. First thought was to say I cant cause Im busy. Maybe I shouldnt even respond. Any ideas? THANK YOU!

[Swiggle]

You keep saying you don't care and she isn't better than you but in your writing I can't help but wonder if you feel opposite of this. It is ok to feel bad that she can't give you the same things you give her. It is ok to feel hurt at her behavior and sad that you can't have the kind of relationship that you want with her. But she is who she is as and You've allowed and are allowing her to treat you this way. It sounds like her behavior isn't easily rolling off you back and if you don't want to be friends anymore then don't be... .it is your choice. Don't engage her, don't respond to her, don't have any contact. If she emails you don't read it or read it laugh and hit delete. Unfriend her or hide her feed on Facebook and don't answer her texts or calls.

I had a co-worker who I became freinds with right after my divorce. She was the only single person I knew that didn't have kids so it was easy to have someone to hang out with. After going out a few times I realized that she has a major drinking problem. Often when we would go out I would be responsible and get her home and in bed. This went on for a few months, going out maybe once or twice a month. She often would cancel plans or flake out so that was an issue to.

I was newly divorced, living alone with two kids and I wasn't getting child support so money was pretty tight. The last straw for her and I was when I was selling off some Coach purses that my uNPxh had bought me buecause I needed the money. I had one she was interested in and ask me how much, I told her $100. I had only used it once and it was like $300 originally and they were selling for this much on Ebay. She asked if I would take $75 and I said no that for $75 I would just keep it, since I liked it to. She got really angry with me and started telling me how terrible of a friend I was, that all I did was take advantage of her, she said "what about all those times we went out and I let you sleep at my house and use my water to shower 

She said all I cared about was money and not a friendship. I was speechless, needless to say that was the end of that freindship. I sit right next to her at work and am cordial and we chit chat but never again will we be on any close level of friendship. I made a choice to project myself and not put myself in a situation were someone could hurt me and think it was ok.

She is used to gettting what she wants. She gets aggressive and threatening and other people (family) are always cleaning up her mess. She is one of those people who knows EVERYONE but only has a couple friends that she can truly rely on. She cycles through groups of friends every so often. I think they get tired of her BS and move on, then she is forced to hang with a new group until something happens there.

Friendship is a two way street. Sounds like your freindship with this girl is all about her and she has nothing to offer you and keeps you around as her punching bag.

[P.F.Change]

WOW! Dont they have ANY capability of seeing reality? What makes her believe I will accept going out or meeting her ever again?

Ok, I understand she sees me as a way to get something: she wants to go out and find another husband. She doesnt have many friends (if any at all), but still, she thinks I have zero self-steem? I guess she thinks shes doing me a favour by allowing me be near her... .LOL.

Louise, you've been here a long time. You know that people with disorders do see reality differently than people without disorders. Taking PDs out of the equation, even two relatively healthy people might look at the same situation differently. In this case, it might be more helpful for you to shift the focus from "What is she thinking/What is wrong with her?" to "What am I thinking/Is my attitude healthy?"

If you don't want to go out with her, you can politely decline her invitation. This is the same kind of advice you give others, and so I know you already understand that. Is there any reason to make it more complicated?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Louise7777]

To be honest, I feel pretty invalidated by both answers. I expected something different. Yeah, I know expectations are the path to frustration, but nonetheless I thought Id get some sympathy here.

Mtrip22, of course it bothers me, otherwise I wouldnt post here. Thats why we are all here, isnt it? To get opinions and advices from people who are going through similar experiences.

I didnt say she is better than me. I said she verbalizes and acts as if she is. I believe she´s better than me in some areas and vice-versa. I think you misunderstood me, I dont expect anything from her, I kept my distance for years, as I said. My mistake was to think that a once a month meeting was possible. So I had decided I dont want contact and since she did contact me and envolved someone else in the email, I asked opinions on what I should do, if anything at all (Im tending not to answer her). Also, I dont want to meet her ever again. Im not "allowing her" to treat me this way, somebody in another thread said thats blaming the victim, actually and its abusive.

P.F.Change, when I asked for advice its because Im not sure how I should respond. It means Im still probably "sending signals" that Im available, so I want to change that. I felt invalidated cause you are saying Im making things complicated. Really? I thought this was the idea: to post and get help, without being judged in such ways. I guess I was wrong then.

[Deb]

Louise7777,

If it was me, I would either not respond or say no. Don't even bother with the "I'm busy" response as that sends a signal that you might be available at some other time. Just no. I had a friend who I believe is BPD/NPD and she went on a tear with me, making up disgusting lies etc. I told her off and she escalated. So I told her to leave me alone. A few weeks later, she starts sending me things  trying to get me to be her friend again, I guess. I just never responded. No matter what she sent, she got 0 response from me. I got a smear campaign and I still didn't respond. Only one person ever asked me about that and I just said that I was done. They understood because they  knew her.

[Swiggle]

To be honest, I feel pretty invalidated by both answers. I expected something different. Yeah, I know expectations are the path to frustration, but nonetheless I thought Id get some sympathy here.

Mtrip22, of course it bothers me, otherwise I wouldnt post here. Thats why we are all here, isnt it? To get opinions and advices from people who are going through similar experiences.

I didnt say she is better than me. I said she verbalizes and acts as if she is. I believe she´s better than me in some areas and vice-versa. I think you misunderstood me, I dont expect anything from her, I kept my distance for years, as I said. My mistake was to think that a once a month meeting was possible. So I had decided I dont want contact and since she did contact me and envolved someone else in the email, I asked opinions on what I should do, if anything at all (Im tending not to answer her). Also, I dont want to meet her ever again. Im not "allowing her" to treat me this way, somebody in another thread said thats blaming the victim, actually and its abusive.

P.F.Change, when I asked for advice its because Im not sure how I should respond. It means Im still probably "sending signals" that Im available, so I want to change that. I felt invalidated cause you are saying Im making things complicated. Really? I thought this was the idea: to post and get help, without being judged in such ways. I guess I was wrong then.

I don't think I misunderstood and wasn't being unsympathetic just being matter of fact with how you could look at handling your situation.

You have a friend that you've kept distance from but thought an occassional meet up would work. She continued to treat you poorly and you don't want to see/talk to her anymore. You asked if you should email her back about. I believe actions speak louder than words and sometimes specifically stating a boundary causes more issues. If you respond with I'm busy, she will take that as an invitation to invite you again some other time. If you respond with I don't want to contineu our friendship, she could become aggressive and it could escalate. If you simply don't respond at all you aren't engaging her in a discussion, or argument. She might reach out about why you are ignoring her but you don't have to explain/defend yourself by responding. You could block her if that were to get out of hand, but you know her better of course.

[Deb]

I believe actions speak louder than words and sometimes specifically stating a boundary causes more issues. If you respond with I'm busy, she will take that as an invitation to invite you again some other time. If you respond with I don't want to contineu our friendship, she could become aggressive and it could escalate. If you simply don't respond at all you aren't engaging her in a discussion, or argument. She might reach out about why you are ignoring her but you don't have to explain/defend yourself by responding.

 


This has been my experience.

[Louise7777]

Deb, thats exactly the point: the signals Im giving. My default behaviour is to say something like "Im busy". That will sound as I cant go now but maybe in the future I can... .That will be interpreted as a free pass. Thats why I post here, usually my first response is wrong, I have to take my time to think. When I do things automatically I tend to repeat old patterns that arent healthy.

Im sorry about what you went through with your friend.Like you, Im familiar with escalation and smear campaigns. Its awful! I dont think this would happen with me now, my ex friend has this schizotypal side that makes her avoid conflict and close contact. She cant really bond. But there´s a huge lack of empathy that maybe comes from the N traits.

As you can see Im still struggling with boundaries. I prefer to ignore her than say "no". She ignored my last email anyway, where she said she always helped me... .When I asked her to be specific about how and when, she went NC. Until yesterday, when she wanted company. Id rather ignore her. And thank you for your words!

Mtrip, I guess her "schizotypal side" will help me somehow. She´d never rage at me or ask for explanations. She will make her own assumptions about my silence, such as "she´s mad at me cause she´s a second-class, etc". But thats her take and Im fine with it. She always blames people but is uncapable of any soul-searching. That happened regarding her husband leaving her, for ex. But thats her problem and not mine, she is free to think/ say anything she wants about me. Smear campaign, will probably happen. But its ok too, no damage will be done.

Thanks for the advice, Ill just ignore the message and if it happens again, I will keep ignoring her.

[P.F.Change]

I can understand why you would feel invalidated, and I think it's good that you are able to express that.

We're not here to validate everything, though. It's one thing to validate that someone is feeling what they're feeling, quite another to validate their unhealthy behaviors. I got the impression from the language in your first post that what you really wanted was for people to agree with you that this (former?) friend is a horrible, ignorant person. In my opinion, that wouldn't be helpful for any of us, as it reinforces (enables) a Victim stance. You're right that the boards here at bpdfamily are here so that we can provide each other support to look at and change our own behaviors, even when it's uncomfortable. That's why I challenged you to shift your focus.

Thanks for making clear that your question was actually about looking at your own response patterns. I think that's a good place to start.

My default behaviour is to say something like "Im busy". That will sound as I cant go now but maybe in the future I can... .That will be interpreted as a free pass. Thats why I post here, usually my first response is wrong, I have to take my time to think. When I do things automatically I tend to repeat old patterns that arent healthy.

... .

As you can see Im still struggling with boundaries. I prefer to ignore her than say "no".

I agree; making an excuse like "I'm busy," might give someone the impression that you'd like to be asked another time. I'm curious what would happen if you declined without an excuse, or even with something more direct like, "Thanks for the invitation, but I'm not interested." I know I have often preferred to avoid uncomfortable situations and confrontations, and sometimes it's still the best solution, but most of the time I am learning that it feels more consistent with my values to try being honest about what I want. You know this person better than any of us, and you also know yourself and your values. It's up to you whether you want to respond to her invitation.

[Louise7777]

Thank you, P.F.Change. You are right, we are not here to validate everything indeed. Sometimes a slap in the back of the head is necessary. I felt invalidated cause I wasnt trying to remain in the unhealthy r/s. And even when people choose to be, they shouldnt be called dramatic (as I interpreted your "complicated". I got triggered cause this is the ONLY place I get validation. I started a thread noy long ago on how invisible I was while growing up and still today, my feelings are not considered. So your words hit a nerve.

The "why does she do that" was my twisted way to say "whats in me that makes them behave like this?". I know uPDs usually dont respect boundaries, but still, sometimes it surprises me. I also feel I have some sort of "vibe" that shows them Im some sort of punching bag. Thats what I want to change by changing myself. Stronger boundaries or different ones, maybe.

I really dont like the word "victim" applied to me. Survivor is even worse. In my opinion, a child could be, but not an adult (at least in most cases).

You said "I'm curious what would happen if you declined without an excuse, or even with something more direct like, "Thanks for the invitation, but I'm not interested.""

In my culture, those responses would be considered very very rude. Although this "friend" of mine (the other included in the email) just cancelled the last meeting 30 mins before it and without any excuse. Through a message. When I asked if something had happened she said "Nothing happened, Im depressed, not in the mood". Which is considered rude also, but you know, they can get away with anything. Thats actually some other reason as to why i dont want to meet either of them.

If I did answer that way, she´d be more sure that Im an angry person, as she had accused me before. I know her feelings/ ideas of me arent my business, but I feel better giving her silence, I dont want to create another chapter in this dysfunction... .