16 more years of this... ugh...

[Lost23]

We have 3 kids together, S11, D7 and D2. Everything is so much more difficult than it needs to be. So frustrating. Yesterday I picked them up, D7 had ballet, so we took her and after we were all going to spend time together. ex-BPDw supposedly had plans with co-workers, but of course she had a meltdown at work and sent me about a million texts during the day and didn't go to her after work thing. So she calls me while I'm driving with kids, and I kept saying "kids are with me, we can't do this right now" which usually works. But she decided it was a good time to push buttons and say things assuming I wouldn't respond. She demanded I bring them right back which they were then upset about "tell mom we want to spend time with you" and twisting the past to say I am the one who split us up (she asked for this 6 months ago and only changed her tune a few weeks back after breaking up with replacement). So I said "YOU chose this, not me". So then my son is asking after who suggested the divorce, something I think he has assumed all along was me since her emotional state is so turbulent. I finally told him she did, not in a malicious way, but I felt it couldn't be avoided any further. He said he wasn't upset he just wanted to know. Then later I bring them home, she just sits on the step crying while I try to talk to her. Turns out she's got the day off today because of her meltdown at work... .would be fine except for the fact that this is a brand new job, yesterday was only her second day. So there goes any hope of financial independance as she's either going to get fired or quit. She sent me a text after that she is just laying on the floor crying because I won't "stay" (come back) and the kids are crying too and now S7 doesn't want to spend this weekend with me. I know she does but she feels compelled to make her mother feel better. And my son last week quietly asked me to remove him from an after school activity because he didn't want to do it, but he was worried when his mother suggested it that if he said no she would be sad and he was worried to ask her after. I'm so frustrated and people keep saying to me "it will get better in time" but I don't think it will. She went 3 days recently without any drama and that was the longest in months. This is never going to change and the FOG is getting thicker. She is depressed, a wreck, spent so much time finding this job now is going to lose it, talks about wishing she was dead. Her birthday is coming up and the guilt trips are getting worse and worse. Some days I want to go back just to stop hearing it all. I've spent 12 years putting band-aids on this and I know it's wrong but this feels worse. How the hell do we cope through this? It feels like my life is either going to be A) 16 years of this every day (or at best every few days) or B) she gets too depressed and kills herself like she keeps implying and I (and my kids) live with that forever. I just feel like I'm getting beaten to submission. Just worn down until I decide it's easier just to suck it up and go back to an environment where I feel like nothing but a servant that never quite did enough. Ugh. Sorry for the length.

/rant

[LazyAtoms]

Hi Lost,

This sounds exactly like my SO's experience with his uBPDexW (including the inability to keep a job).  The first year after their separation/divorce she did nothing but melt down, threaten to kill herself and frantically phone/text bomb him all the time.  He had a lot of guilt over this and spent a lot of wasted time trying to cooperate with her and help her cope.  None of it which made one iota of difference in her getting her act together (she is still absolutely useless and has made no progress at all in 3 years).   

What is your custody agreement?  Could you get primary custody?  Initially my SO and the ex had 50/50 custody, but after that first year it became very clear that SS7 was suffering terribly when with her.  Not because she was mean or abusive, which she isn't, but because she has no filter and was constantly crying or falling apart, or sitting around catatonically.  SS7 started developing severe anxiety, and was refusing to go to school because he was worried about her.    One day she picked him up from school and left the state without telling SO, because she "needed a vacation".  After that stunt, SO told her he was taking primary custody.  She didn't fight it because she couldn't deal with trying to get him to school.   A year later and SO still has primary custody, and SD is doing much better.   She sees him EOW and once a week for dinner.   Recently she threatened to go to court and get custody back (mainly because she wants child support), but she is a BPD waif, and her only response really to things is to moan about her victimhood.  So we aren't worried.  If I had an ex with BPD I would be doing everything in my power to minimize the kids' exposure to their craziness.   Even if they aren't abusive, they still fill the kids with guilt or the idea that life is just too hard. 

Outside of gaining more custody, the very best thing SO did was put up major boundaries so that he sees/speaks to her as little as possible.  All exchanges done at school or daycare.   Never answers the phone.   Most communication is email, if he gets a ranting text he just ignores it.  Only responds to logistical texts.  This has really minimized his stress in having to deal with her.  It did take him a long time to get there, to break through the FOG... .and I know he wishes he had done it a lot sooner!

[Lost23]

Yep sounds almost identical. We have joint custody currently. I know I can get more but I'm worried about what that will do to her emotionally. Even separate of the FOG she is the mother of my children and I wish she could pull her s*** together for their sake. But it is starting to get concerning when their decisions are starting to be based on whether they upset her or not. Same in the way that she's not abusive or mean to them but just in this catatonically depressed state of nothingness. And it's frustrating having the same conversations over and over, why won't I come back, when will I love her again, etc. I know I should break free from this but I struggle with it because I don't know if N/C would literally push her over the edge. I hate that she can be a (more) stable person but only if I am there to sponge the abuse and neglect myself. If she has nowhere to direct it she just loses her mind. In that way, even though I know it makes no sense, I DO feel responsible if I know that going back would at least make her less (outwardly) crazy.

[momtara]

Sounds similar to my situation, except with an ex-husband.  He wants me back.  His decisions for the kids are based on his moods.  Luckily I have them most of the time.  I won't go no contact either.  But lately I have been setting more boundaries.  Told him no calls or texts during work except if it's an emergency or change to visitation schedule.

[LazyAtoms]

I understand your worry about what that would do to her emotionally.  SO's ex did try and kill herself about a year ago, which is terrible.  But ultimately, SO had to do what was best for his son, and what was best for the ex really didn't matter, since nothing he did or didn't do helped in any way.  She is beyond help because she refuses to help herself.

[Lost23]

She just finally started working this week. She had one day where she just had a meltdown all day and was lucky to not get fired. Now this morning I wake up to like 22 texts about how getting the kids ready in the morning is so hard, she gets home too late so S11's schoolwork is declining, her hours are too long, she doesnt have time to grocery shop, daycare is too expensive, etc. A) She was offered a job that had free on-site daycare and she turned it down because this one was better 'long-term'. Apparently 'long-term' means 4 days... .and B) These are all things I told her to think about in April when she was ending this but she was so determined that getting rid of me was the solution to all her problems. Even now it irritates me that she can't just say "wow life WAS easier with you, I made a huge mistake, I'm sorry" instead of "life is hard and it's somehow always your fault and you're still not doing enough".

[Swiggle]

I just read your story, my heart breaks for you and your children. I'm still processing and at this very moment am speechless and that doesn't happen very often.

I've only been here a short time and after reading what you and others have been through, I feel like I don't even have a right feel frustrated or stressed out.

[Lost23]

I just read your story, my heart breaks for you and your children. I'm still processing and at this very moment am speechless and that doesn't happen very often.

I've only been here a short time and after reading what you and others have been through, I feel like I don't even have a right feel frustrated or stressed out.

We are all dealing with it on some level or another. I think feeling you have 'no right' to feel stressed is something we all have to stop thinking because it's what leads us deeper into these situations in the first place. When I read people's stories who are not as deep I hope they can get out or learn to cope now. When I read those that are deeper down I think that is or could have been my future. That's why we're all here. There is a bittersweet-ness to this place I find. It's nice knowing we're not alone. But it's sad that we and our BPD (ex or ongoing) partners are basically a textbook. I see nothing unique in it anymore. No signs of a real person. Just a pattern of instability and stress. Breaks my heart a little more each day. I'd love to be surprised and go more than 3 days without hearing the sky is falling and it's because of random x I did 10 years ago or some nonsense. I'd love to see a real person in there. I'd love to feel like it actually was me that mattered and not just someone. But this is life. In their need for validation they strip us of all our own self-worth and we are left feeling destroyed.

[Nope]

I see nothing unique in it anymore. No signs of a real person. Just a pattern of instability and stress.

Wow. I read this and it really resonates with me. Maybe it's compassion fatigue but I often feel like my responses are becoming more and more automatic as time goes on because of this. I've recently come to a point in dealing with my DH's BPDexw where every interaction is just about damage control. No more no less. My ability to continue to think about her as a person and concern myself with what she is going through has dwindled as I've watched non after non on this site go through exactly the same things like we are all talking about the same person. Yes, some are worse than others and some may have different symptom clusters, but the pain, confusion and chaos is a constant to one degree or another.

[Lost23]

My ability to continue to think about her as a person and concern myself with what she is going through has dwindled as I've watched non after non on this site go through exactly the same things like we are all talking about the same person. Yes, some are worse than others and some may have different symptom clusters, but the pain, confusion and chaos is a constant to one degree or another.

Yeah that's my big struggle right now. I always felt when I was enduring these things that even if it was bad it was still... .mine? It was unique. She was my crazy wife but she was MY crazy wife. Now it's like... .oh... .there are tens of thousands of carbon copies of her who react the same way, treat people the same way, obsess then reject the same way. It's like The Matrix... .sorry for the geek reference... .but it makes me think of that. Just a string of coding assigned to x amount of people and they're all just running around wreaking havoc.

I honestly wish I saw something more. A glimmer of who I was in love with. Some sign that I didn't spend 12 years just going through the motions with someone who was playing a part in some grand dark comedy. A stock character that's being repeated the world over. Bit parts in someone else's play. "Today you will be playing the role of Overcompensating Husband with Hero Complex Masking Insecurities and Confusion of Self-Worth". You try to find some grand meaning, motivation, resolution. Then you realize you're just an extra with a few lines while someone else conquers the real plot. But damn if you didn't do such a good job playing that part, now you get typecast and before you know it, that's your role for the rest of your life. The world goes by and we just stand still but we tell ourselves "nobody stands still quite like me". Sometimes the knowledge makes it worse you know?

An analogy of another kind... .(I like analogies though sometimes I fail at them, or explaining them, so there's my caveat... .).

Finding this place, it's like looking for God. In a literal sense, not a religious tone or purpose but actually looking for God on a tangible level. You think that would solve your life, but if you found him, then what? At the end of the day, someone convinced us they needed us and we let it all spiral. There's no answer that fixes that or changes it.

Sorry. I'm rambling today. I think I ranted through three different metaphors. Some days are harder to swallow than others, I guess.

/rant

[Turkish]

She just finally started working this week. She had one day where she just had a meltdown all day and was lucky to not get fired. Now this morning I wake up to like 22 texts about how getting the kids ready in the morning is so hard, she gets home too late so S11's schoolwork is declining, her hours are too long, she doesnt have time to grocery shop, daycare is too expensive, etc. A) She was offered a job that had free on-site daycare and she turned it down because this one was better 'long-term'. Apparently 'long-term' means 4 days... .and B) These are all things I told her to think about in April when she was ending this but she was so determined that getting rid of me was the solution to all her problems. Even now it irritates me that she can't just say "wow life WAS easier with you, I made a huge mistake, I'm sorry" instead of "life is hard and it's somehow always your fault and you're still not doing enough".

That's part of it, but it sounds overall that she is being waifish, and wants you to rescue her from the consequences of her decisions. How do you answer her texts, if at all?

I tend to go "Joe Carver" when mine plays the waif: bland, non-responsive, boring. "I know the kids are difficult, you probably need a break." Um, no. "no wonder they like you better than me." No response to that one, especially since she said it and something similar in front of the kids (auto-alienation?). "Taking them shopping together is so difficult as they don't listen." Etc.

It took me months after she moved out for her to realize that I wasn't "biting" other than for legitimate logistical issues. I bit the bullet and had lunch with her the other day (with the kids). She started telling me about the things she's learning in some new business venture. I listened for a minute, and when she paused, I said, "that sounds good." She knows I love to talk about such things, and have my own knowledge on the subject. I didn't want to know, and don't care. When she asked me to watch the kids on one of her days coming up when she had all day training, I said "sure, no problem." End of conversation. Paid attention to the kids. BIFF.

I feel the same way, though. Mine is back to baseline (mostly) for now, still in wonderland with my replacement. When things go south, it may get bad. Very bad. I know her. She's repeating a pattern she had before me. I think: "17 more years of this?"

[Lost23]

Typically I'm responding the same way "here's what I can do to help with kids, etc." She's also talking about getting back with the on-off-again replacement but at least she's honest about it and saying she'd rather it was me. Maybe it's a ploy but it's a bigger step than acting like he's a superhero who is able to magically do everything I lacked.

[mstnghu]

Hi Lost,

This sounds exactly like my SO's experience with his uBPDexW (including the inability to keep a job).  The first year after their separation/divorce she did nothing but melt down, threaten to kill herself and frantically phone/text bomb him all the time.  He had a lot of guilt over this and spent a lot of wasted time trying to cooperate with her and help her cope.  None of it which made one iota of difference in her getting her act together (she is still absolutely useless and has made no progress at all in 3 years).   

What is your custody agreement?  Could you get primary custody?  Initially my SO and the ex had 50/50 custody, but after that first year it became very clear that SS7 was suffering terribly when with her.  Not because she was mean or abusive, which she isn't, but because she has no filter and was constantly crying or falling apart, or sitting around catatonically.  SS7 started developing severe anxiety, and was refusing to go to school because he was worried about her.    One day she picked him up from school and left the state without telling SO, because she "needed a vacation".  After that stunt, SO told her he was taking primary custody.  She didn't fight it because she couldn't deal with trying to get him to school.   A year later and SO still has primary custody, and SD is doing much better.   She sees him EOW and once a week for dinner.   Recently she threatened to go to court and get custody back (mainly because she wants child support), but she is a BPD waif, and her only response really to things is to moan about her victimhood.  So we aren't worried.  If I had an ex with BPD I would be doing everything in my power to minimize the kids' exposure to their craziness.   Even if they aren't abusive, they still fill the kids with guilt or the idea that life is just too hard. 

Outside of gaining more custody, the very best thing SO did was put up major boundaries so that he sees/speaks to her as little as possible.  All exchanges done at school or daycare.   Never answers the phone.   Most communication is email, if he gets a ranting text he just ignores it.  Only responds to logistical texts.  This has really minimized his stress in having to deal with her.  It did take him a long time to get there, to break through the FOG... .and I know he wishes he had done it a lot sooner!

I'm still with my BPDw so I haven't personally had to deal with this. One thing that really stood out to me though was your comment "Even if they aren't abusive, they still fill the kids with guilt or the idea that life is just too hard."

I can't tell you how profound this is that you bring this up. I know my wife loves my son more than words can say and she'll do anything for him. This is a constant issue for me though in that she is just always such a "beaten down" person. I'll be damned if my son is going to grow up thinking that's a normal way to live. My wife also is "sick" all the time and also tries to say that he's sick or "feels like he has a fever" all the time. I just blow her off and say that he's fine. She's already trying to give him this mentality that life is rough.

[Lost23]

Yep my kids are dealing with this crap now too. Her crying and moaning everyday about how hard life is, them trying to band-aid her problems and being depressed too. Just sucking the life out of their childhood.

[Turkish]

Yep my kids are dealing with this crap now too. Her crying and moaning everyday about how hard life is, them trying to band-aid her problems and being depressed too. Just sucking the life out of their childhood.

That's the waif mother's motto: "Life is too hard." Have you read Lawson's book, Understanding The Borderline Mother?

It's more for adult survivors of borderline parents, but it also gave me insight into some of the thought processes of my Ex (a Waif-Hermit... .my mother is Hermit-Waif), and also has me thinking of how to give the kids tips on interacting with her as they grow up.

[LazyAtoms]

I can't tell you how profound this is that you bring this up. I know my wife loves my son more than words can say and she'll do anything for him. This is a constant issue for me though in that she is just always such a "beaten down" person. I'll be damned if my son is going to grow up thinking that's a normal way to live. My wife also is "sick" all the time and also tries to say that he's sick or "feels like he has a fever" all the time. I just blow her off and say that he's fine. She's already trying to give him this mentality that life is rough.

SO's ex is constantly sick.  When SD was refusing to go to school, she cried and cried and said that he shouldn't have to go to school, he was traumatized, he wasn't ready, etc.   Her motto is that no one should ever have to do anything that is difficult if they don't want to.  She would say things like "School is too scary for him, he should be homeschooled".   SD was starting to believe that himself, he would parrot back the things that she said.  Once SO took primary custody, he was able to get SD back to school.   He still has periodic anxiety about it, but they work through it.  SO models every day for SD that he CAN handle school, he CAN handle new things, and life is not impossible.   I think resilience is the most important quality to have in order to be happy and successful in life.  SO's ex has ZERO resilience- there is no way SO will ever voluntarily agree to letting her have 50-50 again, his son is so much more well-adjusted now that he doesn't have to feel guilty and sad all the time around her.  The ex can continue to be periodic Disneyland mom, but the day to day life lessons are being modeled by SO... .that isn't to say that kids cannot learn resilience even in a 50-50 situation, I know they can... .it is just so much easier this way.

Oh, and SO receives long rants once a week or so talking about how hard her life is, and how everything is SO's fault, he ruined her life, etc.

Lost, I know that it is terribly painful that this experience and this person you married is straight out of a textbook, SO doesn't not come to this website at all because it makes him feel the same way, he hates it.  However, he and I at least revel in the fact that this insanity and pain led to the most amazing thing of all, which was finding each other... .if she weren't who she turned out to be, that probably never would have happened... .