I'm a source of narcissistic supply.

[Louise7777]

Hi guys.

As I look at myself and why I attract uPDs, I realized recently I provide a lot of free N supply. By free I mean Im not receiving anything back, not even a bone is thrown at me, just a promise of a bone. That never happens, of course.

It takes some soul-searching to realize why I still do it. The only reason I can find is it makes me feel well, loved, appreciated or whatever. Or, since I was taught to be nice, I do it cause it´s "the right thing to do". Cause the truth is, Im not appreciated or cared at all, Im taken for granted. For some time, this "non-appreciation" made me give more, in the hopes of receiving something. Caring for a person as Id like to be cared.

I can only think its partially a consequence of my childhood, my father ignored me completely (Im an only child). So, I have this incessant need to be nice in the hopes get some acknowledgement. Or had.

I learnt a lot here, I managed to find a way not to care of what others think of me and to validate myself (when I cant, I come here   ). Im in the process of getting better relationships.

I provide nothing to my uBPD relatives, but I still give N supply to an xSO (uPAPD with N traits). Thats something I really have to work on. Im aware for some time now of his lies, even unnecessary ones. He always told me he´s not into dating sites anymore and over the years I found him. Just a couple of days ago I found him in one... .This made me think why lie? We arent in a r/s, I dont phone or email him... .I dont ask him about his personal life, so why the need to say that? I can only imagine that he wants to keep me hooked somehow, as he sees me detach emotionally from him. If I go completely, his better source of N supply will be gone. The result is Im angry at myself now for being a friend to somebody who was always a fake persona.

Thank you for reading, any comments or opinions will be immensely appreciated.

[Louise7777]

Hi there!

I have a xSO that lives in another country. Long-distance r/s (I know, weird) for years, all on his terms. We met once and that was it. But still, I was hooked. He kept giving me hope, pretending to be jealous, controlling me (yes, phone calls when I was out with friends asking where I am, with who, when Im going back home, etc). Very manipulative man, uPAPD. Gave me silent treatment when I didnt behave the way he expected. Never threw me a bone, just a promise of it kept me hooked. How co-dependant am I?  

I suspect now he´s NPD somehow, or has huge N traits. But he´s a covert narcissist. Im repelled by the overt ones, I cant stand them. And just yesterday I was hit by the thought that he may be a covert one. He has this fake persona of Mr Nice Guy, but the truth is he´s not reliable at all, not honest and doesnt mean what he says and doesnt say what he means. Im aware of it and he knows I know by now.

Although I established boundaries and detached emotionally, I realize I still give him N supply. Im very good at dealing with my uBPD relatives, I use medium chill and dont engage, but somehow, when its covert I fall for it.

What made me realize he´s an uNPD is his ammount of lies. He always has some excuse, even when caught red-handed. I have known for years that he uses dating sites (thats how we met, btw). When I first found him, I just couldnt believe it and confronted him. Hecame up with some lame excuse, closed that profile. That was years ago. Two days ago I just found him in another one. The site shows when he joined and when last logged in. He logged in the past 2 days. Yet, from time to time he tells me "I gave up looking, Im not on dating sites"  

I never ask about his personal life and dont disclose mine. The only explanation I can find for such behaviour is the joy of thinking he´s fooling me and making sure I keep giving N supply (by listening to his problems and giving advice). He has no friends but I suspect he "collects" women to get N supply from.

I always thought NPD repulsive and yet, I have been in a "r/s" with one for long! How could I have been so obtuse?

Thank you for reading and Im sorry for the rant. I have no one to talk to about him, cause when I did, people think Im the witch and he´s soo nice! I just need to be more patient or nicer to him.  

[Waifed]

I have always been repulsed by people with strong N traits too. I suspect my ex had some covert N traits because she was the innocent, needy waif yet she was all about her appearance. It pretty much dictated her life.  All these labels overlap so much it's really impossible to figure out. Passive aggressive behavior and what some call covert narcissism seem so similar to me, and PA is a trait that most waifs have I am sure. It's part of coping with their need to be in control.  Control thru manipulation and abuse that seems to be completely self serving. Some intentional and some not. At the end of the day the labels aren't as important as their actions. If the behavior is unacceptable then we have to find a way to break away and stay away. Toxic people suck the life out of you.

[Recooperating]

Hi there!

I have a xSO that lives in another country. Long-distance r/s (I know, weird) for years, all on his terms. We met once and that was it. But still, I was hooked. He kept giving me hope, pretending to be jealous, controlling me (yes, phone calls when I was out with friends asking where I am, with who, when Im going back home, etc). Very manipulative man, uPAPD. Gave me silent treatment when I didnt behave the way he expected. Never threw me a bone, just a promise of it kept me hooked. How co-dependant am I? 

I suspect now he´s NPD somehow, or has huge N traits. But he´s a covert narcissist. Im repelled by the overt ones, I cant stand them. And just yesterday I was hit by the thought that he may be a covert one. He has this fake persona of Mr Nice Guy, but the truth is he´s not reliable at all, not honest and doesnt mean what he says and doesnt say what he means. Im aware of it and he knows I know by now.

Although I established boundaries and detached emotionally, I realize I still give him N supply. Im very good at dealing with my uBPD relatives, I use medium chill and dont engage, but somehow, when its covert I fall for it.

What made me realize he´s an uNPD is his ammount of lies. He always has some excuse, even when caught red-handed. I have known for years that he uses dating sites (thats how we met, btw). When I first found him, I just couldnt believe it and confronted him. Hecame up with some lame excuse, closed that profile. That was years ago. Two days ago I just found him in another one. The site shows when he joined and when last logged in. He logged in the past 2 days. Yet, from time to time he tells me "I gave up looking, Im not on dating sites"   

I never ask about his personal life and dont disclose mine. The only explanation I can find for such behaviour is the joy of thinking he´s fooling me and making sure I keep giving N supply (by listening to his problems and giving advice). He has no friends but I suspect he "collects" women to get N supply from.

I found this article yesterday and it rang a bell for me. I hope it will help somebody here too: www.esteemology.com/the-narcissist-and-his-harem-why-you-should-decline-membership/

I always thought NPD repulsive and yet, I have been in a "r/s" with one for long! How could I have been so obtuse?

Thank you for reading and Im sorry for the rant. I have no one to talk to about him, cause when I did, people think Im the witch and he´s soo nice! I just need to be more patient or nicer to him.   

Did we have the same boyfriend? 

I was also long distance, mine was BPD/npd.

Threw huge fits if I hung out with my friends, wanted me on skype every free second I had, otherwise he'd rage... .

Cant believe what an idiot I was for all those years!

Found him on a dating site too and caught him cheating and moving in with another woman whil I was paying his rent! Crazy!

[Louise7777]

Waifed, I couldnt agree more. They suck the life out of us and with PA behaviour we dont even realize whats going on... .That makes me terrified since Im terrible at seeing covert Ns. Yep, manipulation, abuse and control are there. Completely self-serving, as if we are tools and not people. No empathy whatesoever. I still have so much work to do on myself... .Thank you for your words.

Recooperating, no we didnt have the same boyfriend. Mine NEVER EVER raged.   God forbid he would show his feelings of anger! He´d rather die! Even when clearly upset, if I asked "why are you angry?" the answer would be "IM NOT ANGRY, WHY YOU SAY IM ANGRY?"   He punished me on different ways, the favourite one was silent treatment. Longer and longer periods of it, to see how far he could keep me grounded. At first I apologized without knowing what for and then he "blessed me" with his ackowledgement of me existing again. After years of this stupidity I told him I didnt care about him and stopped contacting him. ST stopped magically.

I cant believe what an idiot I was too. Im afraid to get into some self-hating process, instead of working it through... .

[Waifed]

I read an interesting article the other day about dating and "screening" a prospective partner. The entire article was about the little games that people play a the beginning of a relationship. It talked about waiting to return calls for a certain amount of time, acting busy when you really aren't, playing hard to get etc. It said that if the person you are beginning a relationship with does anything to deceive you (above examples) then you should move on to the next person. It states that a "healthy" person does not play games and will not tolerate those that do. It sounds pretty simple, but honestly I have always been in the "hard to get relationships" and thought that was how you are supposed to act. I have always been attracted to the women that play hard to get and that is not good. You end up being used, manipulated and controlled by the other person according to the article. My history can confirm that (with the exception of my exwife (not BPD) of 14 years.

[Louise7777]

Waifed, great point! Those games are a sign of emotional imaturity, if you ask me. A r/s should be based on honest communication, trust, care, etc. Problem is, with most PDs, they are not there to be a couple, but to fullfill their needs only.

With this uPAPD man I felt it was always a struggle. If I wanted something, he made sure I didnt get it. It was never a team work, it was him dragging his feet to sabotage me. Took me a long time to realize this and longer to see he´s some sort of covert N. He has only 1 friend and hates this friend´s wife. I suspect she saw through his façade and he cant forgive that. His friend is on my facebook list and told me that his wife believes he plays mind games. I think she´s so right!

The thing is, how do we stop offering N supply? The only way in going no contact? I wonder if medium chill works, its the only tool I am good at.

I have to put myself out there and start the dating process again. Have to be careful, though, it seems there are many red flags I cant still see... .

[Waifed]

Waifed, great point! Those games are a sign of emotional imaturity, if you ask me. A r/s should be based on honest communication, trust, care, etc. Problem is, with most PDs, they are not there to be a couple, but to fullfill their needs only.

With this uPAPD man I felt it was always a struggle. If I wanted something, he made sure I didnt get it. It was never a team work, it was him dragging his feet to sabotage me. Took me a long time to realize this and longer to see he´s some sort of covert N. He has only 1 friend and hates this friend´s wife. I suspect she saw through his façade and he cant forgive that. His friend is on my facebook list and told me that his wife believes he plays mind games. I think she´s so right!

The thing is, how do we stop offering N supply? The only way in going no contact? I wonder if medium chill works, its the only tool I am good at.



I have to put myself out there and start the dating process again. Have to be careful, though, it seems there are many red flags I cant still see... .

First you need to ask yourself why you are willing to continue any sort of relationship with an abusive person.  The correct answer is to eliminate him from your life completely. It doesn't sound like you have any necessary ties to him.  Easier said than done, but ultimately that is what you need to do and will probably do once you have had enough. 

[Louise7777]

Waifed, I love your cartoon, the carrot exemplifies the bone he promised me and I never got. 

You are so right. I dont have any necessity to continue this "friendship" (he doesnt behave as a friend). I do for guilt, he helped me once so I felt I owed him, but feeling like this just allows him to abuse me more. Keeps me tied to him. I think I paid more than enough for his favour, only by enduring his behaviour.

I will cut him out of my life, Im carrying this burden for way too long. I need to make room for better people in my life.

[Waifed]

Waifed, I love your cartoon, the carrot exemplifies the bone he promised me and I never got.  

You are so right. I dont have any necessity to continue this "friendship" (he doesnt behave as a friend). I do for guilt, he helped me once so I felt I owed him, but feeling like this just allows him to abuse me more. Keeps me tied to him. I think I paid more than enough for his favour, only by enduring his behaviour.

I will cut him out of my life, Im carrying this burden for way too long. I need to make room for better people in my life.

Good for you Louise.  Now stick to it    That's the difficult part.

[Louise7777]

Thank you, Waifed.

[vre]

It doesn't seem necessary to be angry with yourself. Assuming it's a pattern you fell into as a child, you had only a child's emotional development and reasoning abilities available to you at the time.

It may be an uncomfortable and dismaying realization now, but knowledge is power. You can find ways to use that to your own benefit.

Your xSO probably lies to you about dating sites because those don't fit the image he wants to project, and it's easier for him to lie than to make his words match his actions. It very well might be habitual.

"I can only imagine that he wants to keep me hooked somehow, as he sees me detach emotionally from him."

That's probably just about right.

"If I go completely, his better source of N supply will be gone."

You don't really have any way of knowing that, do you? He lives in another country, right? You don't know what else he might have going on, either on-line or IRL. You know he's not a reliable reporter.

You could of course stop communicating with him. That's a decision you have the right to make at any time, nor do you need to justify it. Just like if you're dating someone and you're just not feeling it, that's a perfectly good reason to stop. "This isn't working for me... .wish you the best... bye"

If there are reasons you aren't willing to take that step, you could for instance dial back the amount of communicating you do with him, and see how you feel about that. Or you could make some sort of deal with yourself: "I will get out and do X (some positive social thing for yourself) before I reply to that last message."

[Ziggiddy]

Hi Louise

It's a disappointment to feel a lack of give and take or a mutually beneficial effect from r/ships.

I am sorry it seems to make you feel dehumanised - we all need communication and understanding - we're only human

As far as validation goes, do you feel like you are comfortable to validate yourself? Do you feel like you can be with you and tell yourself "Hot DAMN I do a good job of listening!" even if the people you listen to don't appreciate you the same way?

It can be disheartening to find your ex moving on despite all the work you have done and levels of comfort you may have reached regarding the r/ship that didn't work.

It's easy to think peripherally that he's moved on the next person may well be better/smarter/funnier/prettier etc.

Obviously there is a reason you are aware of his moves - do you know honestly what that is?

vre makes some interesting observations. And that last couple especially I found intriguing. Is there an addictive element to your current 'r/ship' with him?

[Louise7777]

Vre, thank you very much for your inputs. I cant say how much I appreciate your kindness. Its great to be heard and understood.

Yes, its a dismaying and unconfortable realization. Makes me sad to see how much time I lost in unhealthy relationships. I should had taken control long ago. But whats done is done. let´s just cut the losses and move on.

"Knowledge is power". I have to write it down and stick it to the mirron so I read it every morning.

"Your xSO probably lies to you about dating sites because those don't fit the image he wants to project, and it's easier for him to lie than to make his words match his actions. It very well might be habitual."

Another spot on. I have realized for some time now that he wants to be Mr Nice Guy and is very worried about his image being immaculate. He craves approval, but displays himself as self-suficient. I believe now he´s a covert NPD. And I was always repulsed by NPDs, the overt ones. But this one I didnt see coming... .Another lesson learnt.

"You don't really have any way of knowing that, do you? He lives in another country, right? You don't know what else he might have going on, either on-line or IRL. You know he's not a reliable reporter."

Yep, you are right. Im just assuming he couldnt find a more submissive personality than me. I mean, most people would had run, while I was under his spell for years on end. But Im sure he has many sources, I just assume they are temporary cause they are smarter than me, no one would take it for soo long!

"If there are reasons you aren't willing to take that step, you could for instance dial back the amount of communicating you do with him, and see how you feel about that. Or you could make some sort of deal with yourself: "I will get out and do X (some positive social thing for yourself) before I reply to that last message.""

Very kindly put. What I should do is cut that umbilical cord right away. Im in the process of diminishing contact for long now, Im not as strong as I should. Obviously I have a hard time letting go. Thats something I have to work on ASAP. I just got another email from him today, some singer he knows I like. Of course I didnt respond. He must think Im stupid to fall for a bait like that. Pathetic. My only contact with him is through phone (when he phones) and I have to let it go to voicemail... .

Ziggiddy, thank you for your words too!

I can validate myself most of the time. I have to, usually there´s no one to do that for me. I feel very lonely regarding validation. My friends dont really get it and I hear things like "if you cut people off like this you´ll end up alone". I think they are in denial regarding their own abusers, so I cant expect much empathy coming from them. Thats one of the reasons why this forum is so great, people really know what we are talking about.

"It can be disheartening to find your ex moving on despite all the work you have done and levels of comfort you may have reached regarding the r/ship that didn't work."

I will disagree on that one. He didnt move on. He was never there in the first place. Im sure he was on dating sites from before we met until today. He´s uncapable of commitment, he´s commited to himself only. He´s very PA and NPD, he has stonewalled me on a regular basis, gave me silent treatment, etc. At some point I just didnt care and stopped expecting some emotional connection. I dont think he´s even a friend. He´s not reliable, he doesnt say what he means and doesnt mean what he says.

"Obviously there is a reason you are aware of his moves - do you know honestly what that is?"

Very kindly put. The translation is "you obviously care about him... .Why?"

I cant forgive myself for being such an idiot. Of course in the intelectual level I do, but I dont trust myself when spotting covert narcissists. Im afraid to fall in the same trap again. I found him on a dating site by "accident": he changed his profile on skype and there was an email there, I googled it and ended up in the dating site. Thats not a surprise, it happened before and he came up with a lame excuse and closed the profile. Of course he created a new email just for dating sites, just was careless to display on skype, where his family is. Must be tough to keep a façade, sometimes he slips.

This doesnt justify me googling it, though. I guess Im still addicted somehow, mourning for a r/s that never existed. And I need more "evidence" to cut ties completely. Like the last nail in the coffin sort of thing.

[Skip]

As I look at myself and why I attract uPDs, I realized recently I provide a lot of free N supply. By free I mean Im not receiving anything back, not even a bone is thrown at me, just a promise of a bone. That never happens, of course.

Maybe a better way of looking at this is that you are attracted to the personality types and have a relationship that eventually ends up with you feeling taken for granted.  There is something in these relationship that you find very alluring - and its not the bad behavior - that comes later.

People who are drawn to narcissistic personality types are generally attracted to the strength and confidence and attention.

Have you read The Narcissistic Couple

https://bpdfamily.com/book_review/joan_lachkar.htm

[Louise7777]

Skip, I didnt read the book but I had read some articles about it. Are you suggesting I may be borderline? ;-)

Narcissitic and histrionic types repel and repulse me. I may find alluring as you say, the strength and confidence they show at first. That doesnt go far, as soon as I realize there´s no empathy, no listening abilities, compassion, etc, I just cut it in the bud. I can sense they are fake, either something in the way they speak or the stories that dont add up, the constant "me me me" (annoys the hell out of me).

I dont think Im attracted to N personalities at all. At least not the overt ones. The covert uNPD/ PAPD was a surprise to me. He appeared to be humble, collected... .all I assumed was the oposite of a N. Now I see his N traits in the form of control and manipulation.

Looking back, I dont think I was ever showered with attention, not even in the beggining of the r/s. They always controlled the situation and I didnt have much of a spine. I believe I acepted too little, I see myself as co-dependant. Probably my personality but mostly how I was raised (to please people, obbey, not complain, etc).

[Ziggiddy]

I read an interesting article the other day about dating and "screening" a prospective partner. The entire article was about the little games that people play a the beginning of a relationship. It talked about waiting to return calls for a certain amount of time, acting busy when you really aren't, playing hard to get etc. It said that if the person you are beginning a relationship with does anything to deceive you (above examples) then you should move on to the next person. It states that a "healthy" person does not play games and will not tolerate those that do.

waifed! Oh my! that gave me chills! I alwys thought there was something wrong with playing games - it's peoples HEARTS that are at stake, after all. Their WHOLE HEARTS. Not a thing to mess with.

I really appreciate your saying that - mentioning that article. maybe I was on a better track than I thought. For many many years I thought there was something very wrong with me that I couldn't understand or learn to play games. What  a refreshing thought that it may have been a wiser course!

Ziggiddy

[vre]

Obviously I have a hard time letting go. Thats something I have to work on ASAP.

I just assume they are temporary cause they are smarter than me

I cant forgive myself for being such an idiot.

Taking a step back, it looks like you tend to deal with yourself quite harshly. There can be a certain pattern that sets in, where a person has very high standards for him- or herself, but is also super critical of his or her own failings. There may be enough satisfaction from having those high standards, that it makes up in some way for the misery induced by the self-criticism. Could something like this be operating for you?

The shortest (though not necessarily the easiest) path to easing this situation is in fact to find some forgiveness for yourself.

A little something about being N supply for someone: other people will take us in all sorts of ways, and we really have no control over that. I have to deal with my xW some since we have a minor child. She lies like a rug and remains fully convinced that she can easily put one over on me. I help at her house in minor ways, mostly in the interest of maintaining my childrens' environment in a good condition, and to give xW fewer reasons to fly off the handle with them. She probably thinks she charms me into doing those things; it isn't worth the hassle of arguing that stuff with her.

I have a rather bad boss at the moment who also does a lot of lying (next situation to straighten out).

Other people have enjoyed disparaging me, classifying what sort of human being I am based on my educational background or career.

On the other hand, I'm fortunate enough to have children, family members, and friends, who've had plenty of chances to observe me in action, warts and all, and still like me and enjoy my company.

Other people are going to do their thing, independent of what I like or want. Subject to immediate circumstances and my own goals, if I don't like the way they do, I'm free to limit my contact with them or find ways to not deal with them at all. Much more rewarding to put that energy into my projects and people I feel more of a bond with.

[Skip]

Skip, I didnt read the book but I had read some articles about it. Are you suggesting I may be borderline? ;-)

I'm suggesting that you read the book. It will addresses some of the questions you are asking.  There is no diagnostic prerequisite. I read it.

Louise7777, if we grew up with a "borderline" parent, there is a 48% chance we inherited traits or the disorder ourselves.  If we grew up with unhealthy family dynamics, we often carry some of those forward. Most of us carry some baggage to this.

Addressing what concerns us is what this site is about.  You're concerned about your track record with partners, right?

As I look at myself and why I attract uPDs, I realized recently I provide a lot of free N supply. By free I mean Im not receiving anything back, not even a bone is thrown at me, just a promise of a bone. That never happens, of course.

I dont think Im attracted to N personalities at all.

You may want to think about what you are saying.  Is it possible that people with PD's seek you out.  However, with narcissists being between 2-6% of the population, what is the likelihood anyone would have multiple narcissistic SOs without co-mutual selection?

Murry Bowen MD (Bowen Family Institute) says we are attracted to our emotional equal (equal, not facsimile). That's a sobering thought after one of thee relationships.  It suggests that we look at ourselves.

[Louise7777]

Vre, first of all, Im sorry regarding you ex-wife situation. You are a caring father, able to think about your child first, not your ego.

We really have to pick our battles. In the past Id call them up when I catch them lying... .Today I just think a lot before getting into that. Im controlling my ego.  I guess thats why I like medium chill so much, it was a great tool used for my benefit. It avoided a lot of trouble for me, a lot of no-win discusions.

Im very critical of myself, you are right. Im much more "kinder" when I "judge" others than when I "judge" myself. Im working on that too. No more free-passes. I was very extreme in opposite directions, today I try to "weight" my opinions better.

I just had my boundaries stepped on, so I was really angry. Of course anger doesnt do anything. Enforcing boundaries is the best for me, and diminishing contact. I realize I was explaining my boundaries to an adult. That was draining and if you have to explain common human behaviour to an adult, its because something is really wrong... .

Skip, my parents are not borderline. But I certainly do have uBPD relatives (grandmother, aunts, cousin). My mom is their enabler, their N source. I grew up witnessing that and learning to be nice, to provide N supply to the whole bunch so there´s some sort of peace (if thats even possible in a dysf. family!). I was supposed to "inherit" my mom´s job. When I didnt, they pushed more. And it has been that way until I enforced boundaries and went VLC/ NC.

Im sure I carry some baggage. No one grows up in such environment without developing some trauma or some unhealthy behaviour.

Im not worried about partners only. Im worried about attracting PDs in general, friends included. I dated a guy long ago and now, looking back, I see him as NPD. It lasted 3 months, I dont consider that a r/s. He was not arrogant (at first), but soon I realized he was low-functioning, an alcohol e cocaine user and I ended it. I really dont see myself attracted to NPDs.

I have to think if Im attracted to my emotionally similar. I was the rescuer during the last month, for sure. But its something that Im not anymore. I dont have the strength or the will to take care of a "child".

The uPAPD covert NPD is a different story. Hes Mr Nice Guy on the outside and took me years to realize his manipulation, control and lies. He seemed the normal type of person, easy going, never angry, kind... .Thats what attracted me at first. Then, as I read somewhere, I was the from in the hot water... .I really didnt see the change happening. Im way more attentive now, for sure.

[Kwamina]

Hi Louise ,

You've started a very interesting thread here with the potential of getting right to the core of the matter. Self-reflection and self-examination are very valuable as we try to grow and heal ourselves.

In earlier responses to your post it has been pointed out to closely look at your own role in relationships, why you often seem to attract a certain type of people and what you might be doing yourself that possibly adds to these dynamics. That requires a lot of self-analysis and that's basically also what you realized yourself in this quote from your initial post:

It takes some soul-searching to realize why I still do it.

It can certainly help to analyze the dynamics of your relationships and look at what's known in general from (scientific) literature about the dynamics of relationships with people who have difficult personalities, one of them being people with strong narcissistic traits.

You've been suggested a book that probably is one of the best out there when it comes to discussing the relationship with someone who has narcissistic traits and what might keep you 'hooked' to these type of relationships. In this book the dynamics of a relationship with someone who has a narcissistic personality disorder are clearly described and also some of the characteristics of the people getting involved with them. The book describes the relationship patterns of couples consisting of one person with strong narcissistic traits and the other with strong borderline traits.

Based on the book suggestion I can definitely see how this could come across as suggesting you might be borderline yourself. As I read through your entire thread the aim of this book suggestion seems to be to try to get you to examine the specific narcissistic traits you witness in certain people in your life more closely and also closely examine any character or behavioral traits of your own that might add to the difficult relationship dynamics with them.

Many of our members (me included) have as a result of everything we've been through developed (or learned) some unhealthy behavioral traits and coping mechanisms that might not be serving us that well anymore in our adult lives (and that's putting it mildly). Based on your initial post it seems like you might feel this is the case with you too, do you agree with this assessment? And are there any specific traits you witness in yourself that you think might keep you stuck in relationships with people who have strong narcissistic traits?

I mentioned J.A.D.E. to you in one of your other recent threads and you said this was one of the things you we're struggling with. I know from experience that if we keep justifying, arguing, defending and/or explaining (jade-ing!) this can keep us stuck in all sorts of difficult situations and relationships we don't feel very comfortable being in at all. The key with J.A.D.E. is that it doesn't include you needing to do something else instead of 'jade-ing'. The only thing you gotta do is not J.A.D.E. Don't justify, argue, defend or explain yourself when demands or accusations are made. Easier said than done of course, I realize that, but by not 'jade-ing' you are basically taking away a lot of the emotional energy the difficult people you're dealing with probably need to get and keep going. By not jade-ing you're making it a lot harder for other people to 'feed off' your emotional energy. So after reading this, how do you feel about 'not jade-ing' now as one the ways to prevent yourself from getting or staying involved with people who have narcissistic traits? It just might work!  Especially in combination with clear and strong boundaries that you are also willing to strongly defend if needed. Not engaging in jade-ing is strongly linked to the subject of boundaries. In relation to 'not jade-ing', do you feel like setting and defending your boundaries is something you're really comfortable with?