It's Saturday... and here we go again

[flowerpath]

There's just something about a Saturday. 

I've learned to expect the unexpected every day of the week, any time of day or night, so I'm not blindsided by anything he says or does when he walks into the room.  Historically, Saturdays are the days he gets really bent out of shape, and today he seems like he's in the mood for a fight.  Every comment points in that direction, and I'm not biting the bait.  I don't want to be in an argument and I don't want to see stuff get broken.  Our children are at their part-time jobs right now, so maybe that's one reason he's on a roll.  He can have a "fit" where nobody can see it except for me.  Here on a day that I can relax on the couch where it's comfy and warm, I may have to go out into the cold to get away for some peace. 

I have been thinking about what life will be like when our children move out to live on their own, and honestly, I think that I don't want to live the rest of my life like this.

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[sweetheart]

Hi flowerpath,

I too know that ' Saturday feeling' usually starts brewing when I return from taking our s6 dancing. My dBPDh is usually in the kitchen on my return spoiling for a confrontation of some sort. I have learnt not to engage, and I can identify with the desire to stay in the warm, but usually I end up leaving and going and reading a book in the car outside my sons dance school.

I am posting on the staying board, but my heart is no longer in my marriage, my dBPDh is almost unrecognisable from the man I married and the brittle, invalidating, paranoid man that has taken his place is the one that is here to stay. :'( The tools and skills I have learnt from here have really helped with the awful dysregulations that I was contributing to, but what is left for me is proving hard to accept.

I can really identify with you about not wanting the rest of my life to always be like this.

It was my h who ended up going out today and when he returned he was in a better mood. I hope you get to stay in the warm today.

[flowerpath]

Thank you, sweetheart.  I did choose to stay at home and I’m glad your husband returned from his outing in a better mood! 

During his first rant this morning when I thought he wanted to have argument, I left the room.  The other times he came into the room or a room that was within earshot, I just stayed, but said nothing in response.

I know that what he said today was based on his feelings.  What I don’t know is this:  Am I doing the right thing by not responding to criticism or the things he says that are not true when I think he really wants to have an argument or a reason to explode?  By not responding in an effort to avoid making things worse, am I’m making it easy for him to verbally jab at me? 

Maybe I should have validated him somehow, but I’m not really sure how or what I should have validated considering the types of comments he was making.   I didn’t even try SET.   I just felt like it was better to not say anything. 

[flowerpath]

Well, it might take a while to recover from today because it's hard to get it off my mind.  I looked back at the lessons to see what I could have done differently.  At least now instead of feeling bad about not validating him during all of those instances today, I do see that I was choosing not to engage - choosing not to pick up the gauntlet - even though "coward" was one of the words he used to describe me. 

[sweetheart]

Hi flowerpath,

With my h I can often gage whether or not I can validate the underlying feeling by how annoyed he is to begin with. Sometimes this initial validation does not work and then I know my involvement will only escalate the situation, so I keep a low profile (usually in the garden    ). I then might try saying I can hear something has caused you to feel upset and I'm sorry you are feeling like that, let's talk about this when things are bit calmer between us and let him know I am off to do... .XYZ, usually outside the house as this mostly helps reset his mood.

It is ok by way of response to say that you don't want to talk about this at the moment rather than not saying anything at all. I have come to realise that saying nothing at all can be quite invalidating, my h then feels unheard, unseen and invisible. He has told me he hates it when I say nothing. ( it's a minefield for sure   )

You can only use SET if you know what your h is upset about ( that's my understanding of it ).

For me the starting point was absolutely not engaging and I preferred to say nothing for quite a while to get the hang of how to do things. I've lost count of how many times I've said ' I'm sorry you feel like this ... .' and then removed myself

flowerpath my h rantings, negativity and dysregulations used to stay with me for a long time after as well. I now realise that very little of what my h is saying when he is wanting to argue is really about me and this has helped me not to internalise the negativity, hurt or confusion I used to hold on to. Of course I have said things that are invalidating or undermined him or hurt his feelings as I would have done in any relationship ( I'm far from perfect ) I try to phrase things differently now with my h and talk to him on a feeling level that uses empathic responses.

I can hear... .

I can see... .

I am able to detach quicker now and my life has improved, but like I said in my first reply my h is a v different man from the one I married. I understand why, I accept that he is mentally ill and I am staying for now.

[Moselle]

my h is a v different man from the one I married. I understand why, I accept that he is mentally ill and I am staying for now.

Sweetheart,  I can really relate to this. I've had a very one sided weekend too LOL. And I caught myself wishing for a relationship where I can have a normal conversation and not have to be concerned about what I say and how I say it.

The techniques, lessons and support her have been a lifesaver to me as I've grappled with my 10 month separation.

Part of what I'm learning to do is to "get on with my life". Striking a balance between detaching to care for myself, and acting in a positive way, in the relationship.

Hang in there!

[Cat Familiar]

Flowerpath,

Good for you for not taking the bait! I know the stunned feeling of my own silence as I stand there in disbelief, not having a clue as to how to respond to something so seemingly irrational and unnecessary. Then, if I don't say something in a timely manner, then that adds fuel to the fire.

If I'm enthusiastic and I inadvertently interrupt, then he gets mad, even if it's merely an "uh huh" in agreement. He gets an imperious look on his face and a haughtiness in his voice. However, he feels free to interrupt me at any point and has no remorse. NPDlite I suppose.  I'm working on defending this boundary and he's starting to become aware that I don't like being interrupted either.

I hope the rest of your weekend is better and that you feel supported and appreciated--here if not at home.

[flowerpath]

Thanks so much for the thoughtful and helpful responses.

If I'm enthusiastic and I inadvertently interrupt, then he gets mad, even if it's merely an "uh huh" in agreement.

Cat Familiar, I do experience this! Even if I listen closely and it sounds as if he is at the end of a sentence and sounds like the right place to respond, he is very offended if I say something before he has finished talking.  He was going to say a compound sentence!  Or another sentence!   How was I supposed to know? 

Of course I have said things that are invalidating or undermined him or hurt his feelings as I would have done in any relationship ( I'm far from perfect ) I try to phrase things differently now with my h and talk to him on a feeling level that uses empathic responses.

sweetheart, this is something that I need to work on.   Sometimes I just bite my tongue and shake my head, but sometimes out of frustration I do say what I think instead of thinking about how it will make him feel.  Not being empathetic is an issue of the heart.

Part of what I'm learning to do is to "get on with my life".   Striking a balance between detaching to care for myself, and acting in a positive way, in the relationship.

Moselle, it’s a very fine line.  I thought that I was doing OK with all of this, that I had reached the point of radical acceptance.  Now I know that I have in my mind, but I haven’t done so in my heart.  Right now I feel only detached, and that makes it hard to respond with empathy. 

[Moselle]

Moselle, it’s a very fine line.  I thought that I was doing OK with all of this, that I had reached the point of radical acceptance.  Now I know that I have in my mind, but I haven’t done so in my heart.  Right now I feel only detached, and that makes it hard to respond with empathy. 

This is actually a profound statement. And I recognise it too. Today I took my W for a walk with the dogs. And she started sprouting her nonsense. I started to empathise, but it was rote. It was based on the tools and techniques here, and it was a stock answer. My heart is still locked away, from the hurt she has caused me - and there is lots, from physical abuse to fraud, to verbal and emotional abuse. 

I'm balancing the detachment with involvement but I realise its a logical excercise. I'm not experiencing it from the heart. The heart is something that has been abused and will not trust until it has healed. Can it heal while it continues to be invalidated, hated, targetted by this person with BPD/NPD?

Yes it can. The only power she has over me is the power I give her. And I choose not to hand power over to someone who has a serious mental disorder. I choose to heal, validate and soothe my heart.

[Moselle]

I found a great link to "time outs"

I think I just answered my own question too:

Can it heal while it continues to be invalidated, hated, targetted by this person with BPD/NPD? A big NO! She needs to respect it first.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=84942.0;all

I tried this yesterday - it works!best part is: "I need to feel safe and respected" - it sets a clear boundary for discussion. I can use it to allow my heart some space. until I feel it - I won't open up. When she respects it - I can open my heart a little.

"I know in the past that we've both done things we aren't proud of. I also know that we love each other and dont' want to hurt each other. There have been a few times in the past when things have gotten really out of hand between us, and neither of us felt very good about it afterwards. I love you very much and I want to hear what is in your heart, but I need to feel safe and respected when that happens. I'm sure you don't enjoy getting that way, and I know that I don't like seeing you that way either. So, what I'm proposing is that if either one of us feels like we are getting too angry or too upset, that we can call for a time out, kind of like boxers do when the bell rings, so we can retreat to a corner and regain our composure. A time out doesn't mean I'm leaving you, it means we both need some time to think away from each other, for 30 min or a few hours. When one of us calls for a time out, the other person needs to respect that request. That means no stopping or trying to prevent me from leaving. I will come back. I may just go for a short walk or a short drive, but it will give both of us time to calm down and prevent things from getting out of hand, which is what we both want, right?

This isn't a judgment or criticism, it is just me trying to be more prepared. "

[flowerpath]

Thanks, Moselle.   Just what I needed to read.

“Maybe you started out good, walking away and ignoring them, but they said something that you just HAD to respond to.”

Yep.   I ignore again and again and again, and then it gets to the point that what he says is so outrageous that I feel like I cannot take it anymore and say what I should not because somebody needs to straighten him out! Yep, that will cure him for sure! Then he either snaps or it festers for days and then comes back to haunt me. 

Can it heal while it continues to be invalidated, hated, targetted by this person with BPD/NPD? A big NO! She needs to respect it first.

I think that goes both ways.  Re: his heart - Can it heal while it continues to be invalidated, hated, and targeted by this non BPD?  A big NO!  She needs to respect it first. 

Oh, man.  There’s a whole lot of work that needs to be done in my heart. 

[Cat Familiar]

Yep.   I ignore again and again and again, and then it gets to the point that what he says is so outrageous that I feel like I cannot take it anymore and say what I should not because somebody needs to straighten him out! Yep, that will cure him for sure! Then he either snaps or it festers for days and then comes back to haunt me?

Oh, man.  There’s a whole lot of work that needs to be done in my heart. 

I hear you and I'm there too.

[Hope26]

Hi Flowerpath,

You mentioned in your first post that Saturday was a day you could relax on the couch normally, so probably like many of us you work during the week and are off on weekends?  And /or this is the case with him as well?  I find that the difficult days happen almost exclusively on weekends, holidays, and vacations, when we are together much more of the time.  You are understandably concerned about the time when your kids move out.  We don't have children, but I am concerned about when we are both retired.  It seems the solution will have to be to maintain separate interests and maximize the time apart, maybe for you as well as for me.  By the way, I could empathize so strongly with the exchange between you and Cat Familiar about making them angry for 'interrupting'.  I get accused of this all the time.  This board is such a great forum for helping us to realize how very much we have in common.

[flowerpath]

Hi, Hope26.   Both of us work during the week and we’re off on weekends.    Since he usually gets his digs in when the kids are not around, and they both work on Saturdays now, I may be an easy target on a day that already starts out not so good.   Things could change, but I don’t like the prospect of being an open target when the kids move on.  Retirement - oh my word.    

We definitely have separate interests.  Maybe maximize the time apart?  That's almost like a boundary.

Maybe change the pattern of Saturday mornings by getting out really early?  Taking a good book along and finding a quiet corner of a coffee shop somewhere?  Maybe grocery shopping really early?  Maybe spending some time in the library or going for a hike or to a museum or a favorite store later in the day?

I would need to reframe my thinking about what is relaxing for me.  I sure would love to be able to do all of the things I like to do on Saturdays…inside our house…in peace! 

About interrupting - sometimes I catch myself counting seconds after what I think is the end of a sentence.  Sometimes I ask him if he is finished.  Basically, he likes to have the floor.