Trying to put new information in its proper place and not be drawn in

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Last night I actually had a weird little text conversation with my uBPDh. He pushes so hard and uses such mean ways of communicating with me, and I finally told him "i understand how you feel I am trying to antagonize you by not answering. How I feel is that when you accuse accuse accuse the last thing I want to do is talk to you." He actually understood that--he still made excuses "i'm frustrated and of course that will show." Basically "i can't help being rude to you."

I was able to explain that I am in a place of trying to heal both from my childhood trauma and from his stirring in that childhood trauma throughout our marriage. He actually took responsibility for doing that, so at least now he will recognize it rather than dismissing it, that's a first.

There were still so many excuses that involved his circumstances, and I said "there will always be life. My problem has always been with the way you chose to treat me in whatever circumstances you were facing." He still did a lot of "but you did this and this."

The issue becomes: now he thinks we're on some sort of path to talking and being together, but i'm not. I have to admit my heart was tugged, but my head said to watch and see since things have a way of changing in half a heartbeat.

Later my brain said "it still comes down to him wanting you to rescue him." So it's not even healthy for him to have me in his life. I understand the terrible codependency we had, and it took me quite some time to recognize that I can't let other people take care of me, I need to learn to take care of myself.

My T always says, "What is the truth?" and tells me to ask myself that question when I get confused. And the truth is that in the state we are we would injure each other more. And that there are still so many things about how he treats me that make me less than a whole person to him, and I can't allow that.

HELP! thoughts?

[Elpis]

Last night I actually had a weird little text conversation with my uBPDh. He pushes so hard and uses such mean ways of communicating with me, and I finally told him "i understand how you feel I am trying to antagonize you by not answering. How I feel is that when you accuse accuse accuse the last thing I want to do is talk to you." He actually understood that--he still made excuses "i'm frustrated and of course that will show." Basically "i can't help being rude to you."

I was able to explain that I am in a place of trying to heal both from my childhood trauma and from his stirring in that childhood trauma throughout our marriage. He actually took responsibility for doing that, so at least now he will recognize it rather than dismissing it, that's a first.

There were still so many excuses that involved his circumstances, and I said "there will always be life. My problem has always been with the way you chose to treat me in whatever circumstances you were facing." He still did a lot of "but you did this and this."

The issue becomes: now he thinks we're on some sort of path to talking and being together, but i'm not. I have to admit my heart was tugged, but my head said to watch and see since things have a way of changing in half a heartbeat.

Later my brain said "it still comes down to him wanting you to rescue him." So it's not even healthy for him to have me in his life. I understand the terrible codependency we had, and it took me quite some time to recognize that I can't let other people take care of me, I need to learn to take care of myself.

My T always says, "What is the truth?" and tells me to ask myself that question when I get confused. And the truth is that in the state we are we would injure each other more. And that there are still so many things about how he treats me that make me less than a whole person to him, and I can't allow that.

HELP! thoughts?

[Targeted]

Is he doing anything about getting help or improving himself?

[Elpis]

He's actually been seeing a counselor weekly since I left in February. But I know these things take years even when the pwBPD accepts they need the help and then works the program. 

[HappyNihilist]

  I'm sorry you're feeling a bit torn after having that exchange with your husband, Elpis. I love your T's advice to you, and it sounds like you are in a very healthy place with your truth.

He actually understood that--he still made excuses "i'm frustrated and of course that will show." Basically "i can't help being rude to you."

Oh my, that's a familiar one.  

I was able to explain that I am in a place of trying to heal both from my childhood trauma and from his stirring in that childhood trauma throughout our marriage. He actually took responsibility for doing that, so at least now he will recognize it rather than dismissing it, that's a first.

I'm glad you were able to express to him exactly where you are. It's good, too, that he isn't being dismissive. I know that feels so invalidating.

Later my brain said "it still comes down to him wanting you to rescue him." So it's not even healthy for him to have me in his life.

This is a point too often overlooked. A toxic relationship is toxic for both parties. Once a pwBPD's primal fears of abandonment/engulfment have been triggered, they are no longer in a healthy emotional place.

I understand the terrible codependency we had, and it took me quite some time to recognize that I can't let other people take care of me, I need to learn to take care of myself.

You have done a lot of good, hard work on yourself.

It's frightening to realize the depths of these enmeshments... .and humbling to realize the role we played. The good news is that this knowledge is the basis for truly healing ourselves.

My T always says, "What is the truth?" and tells me to ask myself that question when I get confused. And the truth is that in the state we are we would injure each other more.

It takes a lot of strength, empathy, and self-awareness to realize this.  

And that there are still so many things about how he treats me that make me less than a whole person to him, and I can't allow that.

No, you can't. You deserve better than that.

I understand how you feel with the objectification. I think it's easy to misunderstand the term "objectification" when dealing with pwBPD -- it's not so much a conscious, manipulative viewpoint as it is an understandable cognitive result of the disorder. pwBPD have an intense need to be loved by someone (object performing action on them), while simultaneously fearing that the someone will hurt or leave them (object performing action on them). The partner in the relationship is not evaluated based on themselves so much as on the way they make the pwBPD feel.

Living with this, especially for a period of years, can certainly leave a person feeling "less than a whole person" to the pwBPD.

I think you're definitely on the right track for yourself and your wellbeing.  

[Targeted]

In my experience if it helps my ex gf had a counsellor that she saw Even before meeting me, she did not go steady but more when she felt like she needed it. I know she brought one other person to this counsellor with her during their relationship and that was the only other long-term relationship she had, I was the only other person that went to counselling with her. In my experience in counselling with her she did not go there at all to fix herself and her problems she only went there for her own validations. She would go there and talk about how I am the bad one and I have so much work to do on myself and she had this counsellor believing it, this counsellor believed her so much that he validated her cheating on me.  I will tell you how that happened, basically she met a guy on a dating site and talk to him for a while behind my back and when she felt The time was right she broke up with me and went to a hotel room with this guy, then after calling me back crying I said not without counselling, The first weekend went by and she went to counselling herself, this is when she pitched her side of the story, The following weekend when I went to counselling with her The counsellor told me that I was controlling and when you are broken up There are no ties and she is able to do as she pleases and I need to understand that, I walked out because it was not worth trying to explain that she broke up with me on Friday and was calling me back Monday crying, he was not listening.  He was adamant that she did nothing wrong and did not cheat, I don't think he understood the full spectrum of the break up and what really happened,  I believe Because of my experience that as easily as I was manipulated in the relationship A counsellor is 10 times more easily manipulated and they are not there for help but only there own validation, I don't know if that will apply in your case but please at least watch out and consider that.

[Elpis]

Happy Nihilist,

thank you for all your encouragement! I kinda hate it that I want my uBPDh's validation. I know I can't be concerned with what he thinks of me in the long run anyway, but the fact that he would never even own up to what he'd done just killed me! I did have one friend tell me that her h would use that to manipulate, his apologizing or taking responsibility, even though his actions didn't bear out the truth of the words. I need to look out for that, his attempt to make me feel comfortable with him, because then I won't be mindful and on my toes.

I can see the future if I was to return--even if he was to say every day that he knew he'd been hurtful, when he felt threatened by whatever circumstance at home or work I would be the one to feel the pain of his lashing out. He still wouldn't want to grow and would be trying to make me be his mommy/caretaker.

Targeted,

That sounds horrid! i'm sorry you went through that. It sounds like what my friend's uBPDh did to her in couple's counseling, blamed everything on her messiness. Yes, she is very messy, I know that. But that was hardly the core of their problems.

To be blamed for her affair is pretty darn weird!