I cracked & told his married mistress's husband

[ColdEthyl]

Boundary is one term that I think all "nons" need to get very specific on. 

Because it is so empowering... .a boundary is totally under the control of the "non"... .and is usually one of the first tools that is used to try to regain "control over their life".  It was for me...

Then... .once I held the boundary... .and survived my first "extinction burst"... .then... .I felt like I had power.  And I did.

The tools work!

Yes I agree. I suppose I was trying to say I didn't want to make this a boundary as in me saying... .do this or I'm gong to leave.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Siamese Rescue]

Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad your husband is willing to try to improve his situation...

I wonder why my ex has such a problem staying faithful. Why all the womanizing?

[formflier]

  Why all the womanizing?

That is a great question.

And... .very important for us all to realize that we will never know for sure... .there will always be some level of assumption in this.

But... .here goes. 

First:  Most likely has nothing to do with you... .

Second:  Probably gets some sort of "validation" from this to an argument of some sort that he has "created" in his mind. 

He may think... ."she doesn't like me"... .so in an effort to prove that negative thought wrong... .he goes out and gets a woman.  That way... .in his mind... .he can say... ."see... other woman like me... .so it's you that is wrong and not me... "

Again... .a guess...

Or... .he could "fear" you leaving... .so... .he decides to "make you jealous"... .so that you will get closer to him to "make him stop".

There could be other theories as well.

[patientandclear]

I suspect it matters what range of choices the pwBPD feels he or she has.  If for whatever reason, he or she believes s/he can readily find another source of romantic engagement, and s/he is correct, you may see the behavioral pattern of your guy, SiameseRescue, and mine.  Mine knows he can go get someone else all excited about being with him in under a week if need be.

Others may speculate about how they'd like to do this or may threaten it ("I'm outta here!" but they doubt they can actually put it into effect so they may not actually start other relationships.

[Siamese Rescue]

It's truly the only thing that destroys our relationship! I could tolerate his moodiness and his shifting from one mood to another and him being ultra critical of me, but it's the womanizing that makes me lash out and go to extreme measures...

[patientandclear]

That was true of me too.  I was a great BPD partner otherwise.  Fine with closeness, fine with distance, it's easy for me not to take stuff personally, I don't want to fix or control, I was interested in his self whatever that turned out to be.  I was even fine with a lot of geographic distance.  But being interchangeable with another woman ... .or several ... .made me question the value of what I was doing with him in a very fundamental way.

[waverider]

From the scorpion and the frog



A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, both would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. "You knew I was a scorpion when you picked me up." The fable is used to illustrate the position that no change can be made in the fundamental behavior of a creature or a man

He is like the scorpion and you the frog. Neither can change who they are, but the frog can chose not to carry the scorpion, and hence the frog is the only one with a choice.

Making demands is not the same as making a choice, it is hoping the other will make a favorable choice. This is the fundamental difference between demands and boundaries

[Siamese Rescue]

Making demands is not the same as making a choice, it is hoping the other will make a favorable choice. This is the fundamental difference between demands and boundaries

I appreciate the story. It makes sense. I realize I have always believed the lies of this man, hoping the truth was actually being told. The mental and emotional anguish for me was that he would be truthful about fifty percent of the time. My being a codependent fed the cycles and I'm also very curious by nature and will dig until I uncover what's actually happening. That's when the real pain would occur. I feel so foolish. My family and friends refuse to discuss this relationship with me. They are over it. They think I will get over him if I meet someone else. If enough time passes.

My problem is that I can't compartmentalize so I carry this sadness around with me all the time, everywhere. Further I have regrets that I feel like I blew my life up by confronting her husband. Then, and here's the really sick part, I compare myself to this woman and feel inferior. She's younger and, well, she has all of her hair. I'm considered attractive but my hair just started growing back in after chemo this summer. I realize something as shallow as looks shouldn't be a factor and that this personality disorder is far larger than hair or aesthetics.

Sadly, I miss him. I feel like he is now aligned with the exgirlfriend and the new girlfriend and even the husband! Their common thread is hatred of me... .It's a terrible feeling for me. Yet I was feeling so badly being with him feeling like I was being played and therefore a fool. One thing is for certain. The original exgirlfriend will exploit this to mammoth proportions.

I wonder how long he will have me painted black? My fear is that it's forever... .My mother's fear is that it's not forever.

[formflier]

 

Siamese Rescue,

Very insightful post.  I think you have the tools and insight needed to walk down a healthy path.

You said your family is "over it"... or something to that effect.

Can you tell me some about your support system.

I know you are on BPD Family... .and that is a key component of any support system... .but... .it is not a system in and of itself.  BPD family has its place.

My hope is we can help you identify possible gaps in your support system... .and see if we can guide you in closing those gaps.

[Siamese Rescue]

You said your family is "over it"... or something to that effect.

Can you tell me some about your support system.

Well, I really don't have one. You see, this relationship has spanned eight and a half years. My family reached their breaking point long ago but would still discuss it with me, right up until I got stage III cancer. Once that happened, everyone close to me said this was a wake up call. I have a 58% chance of being alive in five years. They don't want me to waste a single minute on him any longer. They are frustrated and afraid.  That being said, i wonder if I'm still enmeshed in this because it's a distraction from thinking about the brutal reality of my cancer prognosis and I'm just trying to get back to feeling normal after almost a year of treatment. THIS is what I'm used to. THIS is what my normal was. I truly forgot how to live the way I did before getting involved with this man. I was lonely but I was happy and carefree back in those days. 

I'm worried that I will waste the rest of my life fighting these women and bouncing back and forth with him - doing everything to win him back, only to be so angry with him that once I get him back it's impossible to be happy or trusting or at peace.

My support system is basically a therapist who costs $202.00 per hour and a half session.

Otherwise, I have a friend that I have breakfast with on some Sundays and she is indirectly on the outskirts of this situation. (She works at a restaurant with someone who is a friend of his, so she gets information and my exboyfriend will use his friend to relay information and threats (after the most recent episode)

So, I am shouldering this with a "skeleton crew"

[MissyM]

Siamese, my suggestion would be to go to a COSA or S-annon meeting.  There are many other people there that have dealt with these same dynamics, someone else's compulsive sexual behavior.  Sadly, many women that I have met have been dealing with cancer or heart disease at the same time.  The stress of having a relationship like this does compromise one's health, so I can understand why it worries your family.  Support in disentangling yourself from this drama is really helpful.  As caretakers, we can take the focus off of ourselves too much and end up in a very precarious position.

[formflier]

I'm worried that I will waste the rest of my life 

OK... .I think you have the proper perspective... .  I hope you can use this perspective to get/stay motivated to keep moving in what you decide is the right direction.

I also think you have a bit more than a skeleton crew.  Many people have no one... .literally... .

I still think we need to expand you network some... .but I think you are well on the way.

So... questions...


Is there anyone else that you need on your medical team?  Sounds like you have had treatment.  Are your checkups up to date?  Are you complying with recommendations?


Is there anyone else you need on your mental health team?  Sounds like you have a T.  Do you feel  the work with your T is productive?

Have you tried going to "groups" to talk about mental health issues?  Might want to chat with T about this.

I like the idea of having friends to regularly meet for meals and talk. 

However... .try this on for size.   How would it help if you met regularly and talked about anything and everything... .except THE situation with him.  Focus on the other good things in your life... .focus on new things in your life... .

Is there a place you can go volunteer.?

Enough for now... .I think you are on the right track!

[MaybeSo]

Your ex likely has an attachment disorder (personality disorder)  due to childhood trauma.  Your story mirrors mine in many ways.  These are not bad people.  But, they are not good at stable relating, and that is just a plain fact that you are going to have to accept and not personalize.  I see it very much like an addiction.  Addiction is very ugly, no matter what kind it is and it always involves lies.   Be careful too about the “I could tolerate the moods” it’s only the other women factor that ruins it…. I’ve been through both, the other women, and the moods. I use to think the same way, if only the other women stuff stopped, I could tolerate the moods. Let me share that…. The moods are much worse w/out the other women!  They are using dalliances to regulate emotional states!   When the drug is gone, they are unregulated, and the moods get much worse, at least at first.  It’s really tuff.   :'( To the point where I almost wished he would go find another woman…. and I never thought in a million years I’d ever have that thought!   Seriously, it’s no cake-walk any way you slice it.  It’s tuff stuff.

This man was abused and molested as a child. Although he claims that his childhood experiences aren't really the cause of his personality problems.

He cannot be counted on to report accurately about himself, of course.  That’s how the disorder works.  Can’t fault him there…but YOU have to trust what your own senses are telling you.  You can trust your own senses, believe me, you can.  I am also very intuitive and it boggles my mind how accurate I usually am when I sense something is up with a loved-one.  

My ex has been in therapy for close to a decade now and other women and moods are still part of his life.   Again, this is tuff stuff.

Couldn’t agree more about joining a codependent group (Coda) or even Alanon or a cancer survivor support group…get tons of support anywhere you can!  That is how you get better!

I know my family has been concerned about me over the years, too, and if I’d gotten seriously sick with cancer I’m sure they would have put more pressure on me to stay away from my guy.  I learned how to take care of myself better both when in contact and out of contact with him, mostly by learning so much about self-care on this board.  (I am currently not with him.)   If I’d not found this board, I would have continued to spiral down both mentally and physically.   I was skin and bones when I found this site about six years ago having lost a lot of weight b/c I was so stressed out with his antics.

In my humble opinion, the lesson for you in this is LEARN TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. That may be the one and only reason why he is in your life at all…the Universe is knocking hard on your door about your need to learn this lesson  !    

[Grey Kitty]

My family reached their breaking point long ago but would still discuss it with me, right up until I got stage III cancer. Once that happened, everyone close to me said this was a wake up call. I have a 58% chance of being alive in five years. They don't want me to waste a single minute on him any longer. They are frustrated and afraid.

... .

So, I am shouldering this with a "skeleton crew"

It is hard to build a support team up, but worth it. I'm wondering if you can re-connect with your family members.

There is more than one kind of support. Having people who value you and care about you involved in your life is huge.

Can you approach a family member, tell them how much you care about them... .and say that you understand how difficult it is for them to watch your crazy messed up relationship... .that you are doing your best to work it out yourself. That you would LOVE to spend some time with them acting NORMAL, without thinking about how to either live with, repair, or end this crazy relationship for a while.

[waverider]

However... .try this on for size.   How would it help if you met regularly and talked about anything and everything... .except THE situation with him.  Focus on the other good things in your life... .focus on new things in your life... .

Is there a place you can go volunteer.?

This is a big point and part of rehabilitation, it is about getting your head out of that place. Once you can do that more often it will be possible to have more clarity and objectivity about your choices.

The problem with obsessions and addictions is they create a reactive obsession in those trying to counter it.

It is hard to find a better life until you at least get a taste of it

[Siamese Rescue]

I've been trying to expand my circle and having lunch and dinner with various friends. My exhusband is like a brother (he has a girl he casually dates and she knows he and I have a platonic relationship) and he has been supportive and trying to check on me and spend time at the house. He and I are taking a four day vacation together. It may sound crazy and raise a few brows but he's truly like a brother... We are family to each other and for a long time he and my exboyfriend had a good relationship, until my exboyfriend found an excuse to blow that up.

So the last time I spoke to my exboyfriend was 12/26. Last Friday 1/2, I went to the therapist, who used to treat us as a couple. She said "Exboyfriend just called me and said he wants to come in and talk about you and him".

So she and I had a session and he went to her the next day.

He told her how much he misses me and his life has a void but he declined a joint session with me. He said he's overwhelmed by my insane jealousy. He was allegedly going to call her in a few days (his vist was Saturday) and come in again.

I called recently to set up another visit with her but she never called me back. Maybe she doesn't want to have to tell me he is finally finished with me.

It's all painful. I'm trying to get out more and do more, but it's all fake. I'm miserable where ever I go. It doesn't matter who I'm with or where I am, I'm miserable.

I miss him.

[formflier]

So she and I had a session and he went to her the next day.

He told her how much he misses me and his life has a void but he declined a joint session with me. He said he's overwhelmed by my insane jealousy. He was allegedly going to call her in a few days (his vist was Saturday) and come in again.

I called recently to set up another visit with her but she never called me back. Maybe she doesn't want to have to tell me he is finally finished with me.

It's all painful. I'm trying to get out more and do more, but it's all fake. I'm miserable where ever I go. It doesn't matter who I'm with or where I am, I'm miserable.

I miss him.

OK... several things here... .

IMO... .

First priority is to call the therapist and get another session... .keep calling... .then I would schedule several sessions so you don't have to worry about calling again.  I would think weekly.

Issues:  1.  Is she going to treat you?  Him?  Both?  

If he is going to be involved... ask her ground rules so that a triangle doesn't get built.  

2.  If a decision is made that you need your own counselor... .I think it is productive to have a close out session with her... .write down questions/issues ahead of time... .and get closure.  

"Assuming" things... .or wondering about things can sometimes lead to bad thought patterns when reality is quite different... .or quite better.  Not saying that is what is going on here... .but if you clarify and "close out" things.  It makes it much harder to assume... .or wonder.

The focus on the T should be your misery.  (trying to use your words here... .)

IMO... .don't focus on "fixing" the misery... .focus on using your emotions to gain insight to your life... focus on what those emotions are telling you.  Focus on what those emotions have told you... .and if you are learning "emotionally healthy"... or "emotionally unhealthy" things about yourself.

Be prepared to be challenged... .

I see that you are ripe for some time of personal growth... .to be a stronger person... .to be a more empowered person...

What do you think about all this?

Great job working on your support system!  Keep it up!

Do you think you can add 1 person to your support system... .say in the next week... .and let us know who that is... how it's going?

[Grey Kitty]

Your T passing messages between you and your exbf is a little worrisome to me.

Since it was joint T at first, this is not a complete and utter ethics violation. Still I don't have a good feeling about it.

Happening once seems odd, but there may be some good reason/explanation. If it becomes a pattern in upcoming sessions, I'd be really worried, and look for somebody else to do individual T with.

[123Phoebe]

So the last time I spoke to my exboyfriend was 12/26. Last Friday 1/2, I went to the therapist, who used to treat us as a couple. She said "Exboyfriend just called me and said he wants to come in and talk about you and him".

So she and I had a session and he went to her the next day.

He told her how much he misses me and his life has a void but he declined a joint session with me. He said he's overwhelmed by my insane jealousy. He was allegedly going to call her in a few days (his vist was Saturday) and come in again.

I called recently to set up another visit with her but she never called me back. Maybe she doesn't want to have to tell me he is finally finished with me.

I'm with Grey Kitty on this one Siamese Rescue, perhaps even moreso...

It sounds like a complete breach of trust and confidentiality, her telling you (or anyone), when and what another client has to say about anything.  Truly bizarre, to me.  How do you feel about it?

Hang in there and keep putting one foot in front of the other; it does get better if you allow it to.

[formflier]

 

Since there was a joint start... .I think this is OK. 

But... .I do have the weird feeling because it is not clear if there will continue to be joint work.

That's why my advice is to quickly have a clear... .direct... .conversation about all of this with the T.

Background:  Family T told my wife and I... .and kids... .that his job was to put the family back together... .not to work on each of us... or to "protect" each of us individually.  Not exact quote... .but that is gist.

He let everyone know up front that he would be telling things to other people... .as he saw fit. 

But... it was clear... we all knew it... .and I think we benefited from it

[123Phoebe]

I could very well be misinterpreting or not understanding joint T or the T involved.  It just seems weird is all, or weird as all get out.  

I need clarification from Siamese Rescue.

[Siamese Rescue]

She started as his client and therapist. And when I found out in 2008 about the other woman, he asked her to treat us as a couple and we have gone to her for years off and on, both as a couple and as individuals. She shares limited information with both of us. She is vague. I believe her ability to remain neutral is strong...

I haven't been back to see her but I did speak to someone who works at his gym, a girl I used to train with. She said the latest married woman always goes into his office and the door is closed and they are in there for 20 min or more... .It's pretty painful. She's very similar to who I was before I got sick.

He's now training this woman again. She was there two days ago, door shut etc.

I have dinner with a friend tonight, a guy friend from my old neighborhood, who is platonic but who said if I'm ever single to give him a chance but that he would be respectful of my position and we could hang out as friends... He knows about my situation and like everyone else he thinks my ex is a womanizer and a chronic liar...   So I don't have to put on a fake happy face tonight... I couldn't if I tried.

Putting one step in front of the other is happening but emotionally I am still in so much pain. It's awful. Truly awful.

The therapist can only tell me what everyone else can: he's a liar, I shouldn't be with him. Yeah I know but I fell in love...

I also learned today that he has another suspicious relationship with a woman who used to work at his gym ... .I thought she was just a receptionist ...

The hits keep rolling... I'm the only one in pain.

[formflier]

 

The hits keep rolling... I'm the only one in pain.

How do you know this? 

Hang in there. 

I think getting back to that T as soon as possible is a good idea.  There are a number of issues to clarify.  I recommend not looking for her to "tell you things"... .but to ask for guidance working through these feelings. 

I hope you can find a way for personal growth through this.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm still not impressed with the therapist's behavior... .but since it isn't a NEW breach of trust or confidentiality, it sounds like the same game it has been.

Putting one step in front of the other is happening but emotionally I am still in so much pain. It's awful. Truly awful.

The therapist can only tell me what everyone else can: he's a liar, I shouldn't be with him. Yeah I know but I fell in love...

I also learned today that he has another suspicious relationship with a woman who used to work at his gym ... .I thought she was just a receptionist ...

The hits keep rolling... I'm the only one in pain.

 This is so tough. This probably won't make it easier... .It isn't for me, your T, or anybody else to say you shouldn't be with him. That is your choice.

I will say that this sort of behavior... .getting involved with his clients as a personal trainer, and hiding it from you as best he can doesn't seem to be changing. You should expect more of it from him, and choose what is right for you.

 I'm facing my own tough choices. I know how painful it is, and I'm figuring out how much pain it takes to get me to make a hard decision.

[formflier]

I'm still not impressed with the therapist's behavior... .but since it isn't a NEW breach of trust or confidentiality, it sounds like the same game it has been.

I totally agree this is weird... .and different... .and I think the T should have been the one to lead the discussion about ... is this ok... and set ground rules.

I'm more worried that this happened... .and there are questions about it... .

Assumptions about confidentiality are not good... .especially in the medical and mental health profession.

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has reached its post limit, and has been closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are encouraged to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thank you for your understanding... .