Forgiveness of her and of me

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have been making efforts to move on.  Step by step.  Lately, I have been thinking about forgiveness.  In Alanon, we talk about our disdain for the disease, not the person.  I have struggled with resentments lately.  I resent her for treating me so hurtfully and disrespectfully.  I resent her for leaving me without explanation after months of emotional abuse.  I resent her for lying. I resent her for leaving to be "alone" and then meeting and falling "in love" with my replacement within 2 months (though I truly believe it was earlier). I resent that i am left to start over.  I resent my replacement for still being with her 6.5 months after they got together.  I resent my replacement for being with her, in my bed, in my life when it appears she is likely even more clingy and codependent than I was.  I resent me for losing so much of my life to her.  I resent my lack of faith that God has this in his palm, likely ensuring my safety for having her leave me.  I resent my lack of faith in that he hasn't healed her yet.  I resent me for still longing for her and my life with her despite the emotional abuse and toll it took on me.  The commonality of these resentments: they are all aspects of her disease, my replacements, and mine.  Hate the disease, not the person.   

Anyone have hints how they moved through the forgiveness of the pwBPD, the replacement, and me.  I want to open my heart to move on and your strength, hope, and experience is appreciated.   It's time to let go.  Thank you

[Hawk Ridge]

I have been making efforts to move on.  Step by step.  Lately, I have been thinking about forgiveness.  In Alanon, we talk about our disdain for the disease, not the person.  I have struggled with resentments lately.  I resent her for treating me so hurtfully and disrespectfully.  I resent her for leaving me without explanation after months of emotional abuse.  I resent her for lying. I resent her for leaving to be "alone" and then meeting and falling "in love" with my replacement within 2 months (though I truly believe it was earlier). I resent that i am left to start over.  I resent my replacement for still being with her 6.5 months after they got together.  I resent my replacement for being with her, in my bed, in my life when it appears she is likely even more clingy and codependent than I was.  I resent me for losing so much of my life to her.  I resent my lack of faith that God has this in his palm, likely ensuring my safety for having her leave me.  I resent my lack of faith in that he hasn't healed her yet.  I resent me for still longing for her and my life with her despite the emotional abuse and toll it took on me.  The commonality of these resentments: they are all aspects of her disease, my replacements, and mine.  Hate the disease, not the person.   

Anyone have hints how they moved through the forgiveness of the pwBPD, the replacement, and me.  I want to open my heart to move on and your strength, hope, and experience is appreciated.   It's time to let go.  Thank you

[enlighten me]

The replacement is the easiest. He is just you. He has bought her story like you did. You cant blame them for believing her as we all fell for it. He will be where we all are one dayy. Dazrd and confused. I dont think there is anything to forgive unless they chased and seduced your SO while you were still with them.

As for forgiving yourself answer me this. What have you actualy done that needs forgiveness for?

Forgiving them is a different matter. I personally will never forgive either of my exs.  This doesnt mean that i dont sympathise for them having such an awful dissorder.

[fromheeltoheal]

I've been hearing about the need to forgive forever, 'you gotta forgive man', 'gotta let it go man', blah, blah, blah, but nobody ever told me how, even when I asked.  Turns out they didn't know either, it was just something they thought they were supposed to say.  What a bunch of crap.

But lately I've been digging, not so much because of my ex but because carrying resentments around takes too much energy and life's too short; how do you get rid of that once and for all, not just with her but with everyone?  Finally, I found something recently that works very well for me:

The act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you.

Tada!  That is so frickin simple, and when I honestly go there in my head around people I've had resentments towards, it works!  I feel the emotional energy drain out of it immediately and I feel lighter.  I only learned this the other day and I've been taking time, when I'm waiting for something or sitting at a stoplight or whatever, to consciously let go of what I feel someone owes me and ahhhh.  It works, highly recommended.

[Seriously?]

I hope you get a lot of replies to this one Hawk Ridge. I don't know this for sure, but I have a feeling I will be able to move into forgiveness once I don't need to keep the bad stuff in the forefront of my mind. In other words,  I believe the resentment and anger are sort of a protective layer. I also want to let go, but these very negative feelings have kept my own behavior in check, especially when I am tempted to contact my husband or to take necessary limited contact to the personal level. I don't answer his personal questions.  Not even about how I am. I am not a liar and I refuse to pretend I am fine, but I will also not give him confirmation I am still hurting over him while he has moved on.  So, I have no insight yet on letting go and moving on because I am not yet detached or strong enough to do so. I do hope someone here offers healthy advice. We have been separated 7 months and while I see I am making progress,  I have a ways to go. It sounds like you're being good to you, and I am glad for you.

[jhkbuzz]

I've been hearing about the need to forgive forever, 'you gotta forgive man', 'gotta let it go man', blah, blah, blah, but nobody ever told me how, even when I asked.  Turns out they didn't know either, it was just something they thought they were supposed to say.  What a bunch of crap.

But lately I've been digging, not so much because of my ex but because carrying resentments around takes too much energy and life's too short; how do you get rid of that once and for all, not just with her but with everyone?  Finally, I found something recently that works very well for me:

The act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you.

Tada!  That is so frickin simple, and when I honestly go there in my head around people I've had resentments towards, it works!  I feel the emotional energy drain out of it immediately and I feel lighter.  I only learned this the other day and I've been taking time, when I'm waiting for something or sitting at a stoplight or whatever, to consciously let go of what I feel someone owes me and ahhhh.  It works, highly recommended.

Holy crap, that's awesome.  Hard (when promises have been made) but still awesome.

[Trog]

I've been hearing about the need to forgive forever, 'you gotta forgive man', 'gotta let it go man', blah, blah, blah, but nobody ever told me how, even when I asked.  Turns out they didn't know either, it was just something they thought they were supposed to say.  What a bunch of crap.

But lately I've been digging, not so much because of my ex but because carrying resentments around takes too much energy and life's too short; how do you get rid of that once and for all, not just with her but with everyone?  Finally, I found something recently that works very well for me:

The act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you.

Tada!  That is so frickin simple, and when I honestly go there in my head around people I've had resentments towards, it works!  I feel the emotional energy drain out of it immediately and I feel lighter.  I only learned this the other day and I've been taking time, when I'm waiting for something or sitting at a stoplight or whatever, to consciously let go of what I feel someone owes me and ahhhh.  It works, highly recommended.

Holy crap, that's awesome.  Hard (when promises have been made) but still awesome.

I feel that I am owed basic decency, I have to realise that I am just not going to ever get that, inspite of what I gave, it just wont happen. I think you're right... .The act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you. Exactly that.

[christin5433]

So I hear you. It's a hard process to forgive in fact it is almost engraved in you that the damage was hers or his that was done . But the truth is and someone described it to me like this ... .It's you see yourself drowning and there's another face on you. You are drowning but you see them . With forgiveness you can hold on to the life preserver and get into the boat. It's not them drowning by holding on to your resentment it's you. They don't feel the same they are constantly looking for a distraction to not feel their pain and shame. You need to get ok with this truth . You are on your own now trust me I too am in the same boat. I lean on recovery and trying my best to reach out to others in need. I'm trying my best to let go of what was just abuse over and over. Even if it wasn't intentional I chose to be with a person who had mental issues. Yes we can love genuinely and care but if the BPD doesn't want help then the sick cycle keeps going round and round . Be glad your changing I too will see my ex with a new person my replacement . Better them than me. I did my best it wasn't good enough.

[Hawk Ridge]

Wow!  Heel to toe, you are sparking something in me and, it appears, others.  So, let me walk through this as I want to practice it.  When i hear about the replacement, I then say to myself, I release my expectations of what I believe she owes me.  In this case, it would mean I am letting go of my expectation she would come back, letting go of my expectation she wouldn't have discarded me and got another object, letting go of my expectation my replacement would let her return to me, letting go of my expectation my expwBPD would have made a decision to make this relationship work instead leaving, letting go of my expectation my ex would magically be a non... .  I say those as somewhat of over-exaggerations but also as representations of my diseased non thinking.  Thanks for the posts and for being willing to pound this out a bit more. I want to practice because it is as you say: my unforgiveness only harms me and I don't want that anymore.  I choose to recover.  Thank you

[fromheeltoheal]

I have to realise that I am just not going to ever get that, inspite of what I gave, it just wont happen.

When i hear about the replacement, I then say to myself, I release my expectations of what I believe she owes me.

It's more than realizing it or saying it, although those can be first steps, it's about feeling it in your body.  Realizing and saying are intellectual things; try visualizing, hearing, feeling, whatever mode works best for you, the person you're trying to forgive, and at the same time emotionally letting go of the feeling that that person owes you something, be it respect, closure, love, whatever it is that they aren't giving you that caused the resentment or whatever, and FEEL that in your body.  For me I immediately feel lighter and the emotions around the issue and the person evaporate, to the point that I feel like I could meet them right then and be totally OK with everything, although that isn't necessary.  We always feel lighter when baggage is lifted, and that works.

[Trog]

I have to realise that I am just not going to ever get that, inspite of what I gave, it just wont happen.

When i hear about the replacement, I then say to myself, I release my expectations of what I believe she owes me.

It's more than realizing it or saying it, although those can be first steps, it's about feeling it in your body.  Realizing and saying are intellectual things; try visualizing, hearing, feeling, whatever mode works best for you, the person you're trying to forgive, and at the same time emotionally letting go of the feeling that that person owes you something, be it respect, closure, love, whatever it is that they aren't giving you that caused the resentment or whatever, and FEEL that in your body.  For me I immediately feel lighter and the emotions around the issue and the person evaporate, to the point that I feel like I could meet them right then and be totally OK with everything, although that isn't necessary.  We always feel lighter when baggage is lifted, and that works.

Did you read any books to help you to this position?

[fromheeltoheal]

I have to realise that I am just not going to ever get that, inspite of what I gave, it just wont happen.

When i hear about the replacement, I then say to myself, I release my expectations of what I believe she owes me.

It's more than realizing it or saying it, although those can be first steps, it's about feeling it in your body.  Realizing and saying are intellectual things; try visualizing, hearing, feeling, whatever mode works best for you, the person you're trying to forgive, and at the same time emotionally letting go of the feeling that that person owes you something, be it respect, closure, love, whatever it is that they aren't giving you that caused the resentment or whatever, and FEEL that in your body.  For me I immediately feel lighter and the emotions around the issue and the person evaporate, to the point that I feel like I could meet them right then and be totally OK with everything, although that isn't necessary.  We always feel lighter when baggage is lifted, and that works.

Did you read any books to help you to this position?

I've been focusing on feeling instead of thinking for many years, including different modalities, visual, auditory, kinesthetic, the ways we mirror and anchor, NLP, all of that, and it fits for me; we are feeling beings who think, not the other way around, and the way to really anchor something in our nervous system is to do it with strong emotion, both good and bad, sometimes intentional, sometimes not, but it still happens if there's strong emotion involved.

The piece I was missing, the how do you forgive, exactly, was that belief The act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you. that I recently got out of a book called How to Forgive When You Can't by Dincalci, which is reviewed somewhere on this site.  We get pieces where we get them, and I'm grateful for that one.

[christin5433]

I feel your anguish It is exactly where I am. I know the answer is in forgiveness to myself first. Crazy it feels to forgive yourself for something you signed up for at least that's the case for me?  Everytime things got worse in her behavior or verbal and emotional abuse I kept making it the norm. I would call it a episode. Now how do I forgive myself for letting myself be so disrespected on so many levels ? Because I loved her or the ideal of what we had? In all reality the moment I opened my eyes and talked to her as if I would anyone else it was when it all went down hill. Rapidly .

So forgiving yourself is to me first.

Than her.

Because I know I'm trying to be kind to myself by just being quiet during this no contact and no trying to engage in any of this. Just letting the pieces fall where they may? I know I was a pretty good friend , lover , parent , and person to my ExBPD. I know that. I'm in my own present space. I don't know what is next . Just I need to find the positive in myself if that means letting myself grieve . Just like you. Grieve and be kind to yourself . I'm done worrying about her actions or chaos making.

[christin5433]

Sometimes I think we're the sick ones now because our self esteem is at such a bottom?

[enlighten me]

Im sorry but I dont personally feel forgiveness is neccessary for inner peace.

I accept my exs cheated on me, lied to me and used and abused me. I cannot forgive them as they had a choice whether to do it or not. Yes I realise their behaviour is driven by the dissorder but they chose the easy route.

I have accepted that what happened happened. I am moving on. I dont feel the need to forgive my replacement as he has done nothing wrong in my eyes. As for forgiving myself i dont see a need either. If you got ripped off by a con artist do you require forgiveness?

I believe more than forgiveness acceptance and indifference of the injustices to be more important to our happiness. By forgiving we are basically saying what they did is ok. By saing its ok then we are leaving ourselves open to being abused agaib.

[fromheeltoheal]

By forgiving we are basically saying what they did is ok. By saing its ok then we are leaving ourselves open to being abused agaib.

That is a common misconception of what forgiveness is.  All forgiveness actually requires is a letting go of upsets that harm us and setting limits on ourselves and others that keep us emotionally safe.

But forgiveness, acceptance, indifference, the label doesn't really matter.  A good test is to think of someone and see how you feel; if there's negative emotion with energy associated with that person in our head and body then we're not done with it yet, if there isn't any emotional energy left then we are.

[enlighten me]

I agree and disagree with you fromheal to toe. I disagree with the definition of forgiveness. I agree though that when you reach a point of havinis a good thing as it has given me peace. no ill will is good.

I am still detaching from my exgf but have detatched from my ex wife. I have reach a point of Indifference with her and what she did. This to me I

[Infared]

I can only talk of my own experience.

I am in substance-abuse recovery for  many years so I am well aware of your 12-step program.

It took me a long time and therapy to assess what had actually happened. I was lied-to, deceive, replaced and then abruptly abandoned a week before the Christmas holidays at that time. She completely denying that there was anyone else... .and then in one month, when it was so obvious she went out of her way to abuse me with her words and her actions. In public and privately. I got no honesty or adult conversation from her and therefore no closure. I went total NC and never talked to her again.

That being said... .the first person that I had to forgive was me. Because I chose to ignore all the red flags at the beginning of the relationship. I fell for her victim role hook, line and sinker and set about rescuing her. Looking back it was a big mistake on my part so I worked hard at setting that right with me and took responsibility to myself for my obvious blunder. This took some time and I needed the help of my therapist, group therapy and my recovery program.  my self-esteem was at Rock bottom.

The closest I have gotten to forgiving her is acceptance of who she really is. (I did not know about BPD at the time of all of my pain and hurt). I can accept that she is not the person that she says she is. Her actions have told me the truth. I can accept that she is mentally ill. ... .but her continued sick actions, and no admission of any wrong doing whatsoever, blaming me and not giving me any closure, I have found it impossible to give true forgiveness. I have worked very hard at that and the best I can do is see who she actually is (not who she says she is), and accept that person and it brings me to a place of neutrality. BEST I can do. ... .and who she ACTUALLY is, is far from the person that I loved in my heart. The truth hurts, but it helps set me free. I know that others are better at this than I am.

I don't have any animosity toward my replacement. He had a cute, tall, leggy blonde playing victim and telling him a bag of lies about our relationship. ... .no... .no... .that's all on her. She betrayed me, our commitment and our relationship... It has nothing to do with him. Initially I wanted to attack him but as I saw more clearly, I saw the truth.

I understand your resentment and frustration. I can tell you that you are DEFINITELY asking the right questions... so you are on your way to getting past this.

[Tibbles]

When I first started looking at forgiveness I did a bit of reading, bought a book , went to the table of contents and looked for the "How To Section". There wasn't one - damn! I was seriously disappointed!

However the after lots of soul searching etc forgiveness to me is about letting go. It's nothing about saying I forgive what you did and I forgive what I did and I'm not angry or upset anymore and it's all OK now. Cause its not. What happened to me and to my marriage will never be OK.  What everyone on this board has been through is not OK. It's about accepting that it happened and letting the hurt go so that it does not rule and poison my life anymore. It's about accepting I did my best and believe it or not my crazy ex did his best. He never wanted to be this screwed in the head. No-one asks to be ill. It's about finding that peace in me to let the hurt go, to say its done and its over and I can now move forward with peace. For me forgiveness and letting go with peace and no longer harbouring anger are the same thing. I want to get to that place for me, not for him. I don't give a rats ass about him any more ( I do but I'm working on it). Forgiveness is about my health and happiness.

The main message from that book about forgiveness was you just have to be willing to forgive. If you are willing to forgive you will get there. Who knows

[Infared]

I've been hearing about the need to forgive forever, 'you gotta forgive man', 'gotta let it go man', blah, blah, blah, but nobody ever told me how, even when I asked.  Turns out they didn't know either, it was just something they thought they were supposed to say.  What a bunch of crap.

But lately I've been digging, not so much because of my ex but because carrying resentments around takes too much energy and life's too short; how do you get rid of that once and for all, not just with her but with everyone?  Finally, I found something recently that works very well for me:

The act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you.

Tada!  That is so frickin simple, and when I honestly go there in my head around people I've had resentments towards, it works!  I feel the emotional energy drain out of it immediately and I feel lighter.  I only learned this the other day and I've been taking time, when I'm waiting for something or sitting at a stoplight or whatever, to consciously let go of what I feel someone owes me and ahhhh.  It works, highly recommended.

Holy crap, that's awesome.  Hard (when promises have been made) but still awesome.

I feel that I am owed basic decRency, I have to realise that I am just not going to ever get that, inspite of what I gave, it just wont happen. I think you're right... .The act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you. Exactly that.

Yes... .I have the same exact problem... .my ex lived (I think she may have moved... .I hope... .I hope)!  ... .I have been strict no contact for years... .but in public, alone or with my replacement she ALWAYS acts like a jackass to me. I am always alone... and it is truly hard (for me) to truly forgive with no responsibility taken for anything including the continuing immature actions. Again, I can accept who she actually is, now... .and that has made a huge difference for me.

Maybe someday I can get to the other place.

For me there is just no possibility of any contact, so I have to do all this on my own.

GREAT THREAD! Thanks Hawkridge.  Everyone's input is incredible!

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Infared-

I have found it impossible to give true forgiveness. I have worked very hard at that and the best I can do is see who she actually is (not who she says she is), and accept that person and it brings me to a place of neutrality. BEST I can do. ... .and who she ACTUALLY is, is far from the person that I loved in my heart.

Again, I can accept who she actually is, now... .and that has made a huge difference for me.

This latest path I've been on has really shifted that for me.  I too have spent plenty of time in 12 step rooms, where forgiveness is preached constantly, but no one can ever tell me how.  A couple things: the only person you need to give true forgiveness to is yourself, and second, as mentioned above, is to let go of the expectation that she owes you anything.  My ex was completely incapable of being the person I thought she was, and my bad for deceiving myself, that's a whole other issue, and letting go of the expectation that she could ever meet my wants and needs has been very freeing for me, on a gut level.  When I really go there in my head and heart a weight lifts and I feel immediately lighter.  Forgiveness is for us and doesn't need to involve or include the other person at all, although I've found that once I do the inner work, the other person just doesn't matter.

Another tasty quote I just read: “You know you have forgiven someone when he or she has harmless passage through your mind.”

[Infared]

Hi Infared-

I have found it impossible to give true forgiveness. I have worked very hard at that and the best I can do is see who she actually is (not who she says she is), and accept that person and it brings me to a place of neutrality. BEST I can do. ... .and who she ACTUALLY is, is far from the person that I loved in my heart.

Again, I can accept who she actually is, now... .and that has made a huge difference for me.

This latest path I've been on has really shifted that for me.  I too have spent plenty of time in 12 step rooms, where forgiveness is preached constantly, but no one can ever tell me how.  A couple things: the only person you need to give true forgiveness to is yourself, and second, as mentioned above, is to let go of the expectation that she owes you anything.  My ex was completely incapable of being the person I thought she was, and my bad for deceiving myself, that's a whole other issue, and letting go of the expectation that she could ever meet my wants and needs has been very freeing for me, on a gut level.  When I really go there in my head and heart a weight lifts and I feel immediately lighter.  Forgiveness is for us and doesn't need to involve or include the other person at all, although I've found that once I do the inner work, the other person just doesn't matter.

Another tasty quote I just read: “You know you have forgiven someone when he or she has harmless passage through your mind.”

I just shared to my sponsor about this and in a mtg.  My low self-esteem always has me picking women who can NEVER give me back the trust and commitment that I give.   ... .Please go back to forgiving self!  LOL!

In this case I really thought that she was different than my other choices... .and she turned out to be the worst. EVER!  LOL!

Thanks for the input... .this thread has been marvelous!

[fromheeltoheal]

I just shared to my sponsor about this and in a mtg.  My low self-esteem always has me picking women who can NEVER give me back the trust and commitment that I give.   ... .Please go back to forgiving self!  LOL!

In this case I really thought that she was different than my other choices... .and she turned out to be the worst. EVER!  LOL!

Thanks for the input... .this thread has been marvelous!

I found it helpful to acknowledge the difference between self-esteem and self-confidence.  Esteem is respect and admiration, so self-esteem is respect and admiration for ourselves.  I've found I do respect and admire myself, enough anyway, and I find that I have high confidence in some areas and not so much in others, including relationships.  So what about taking the confidence we have in some areas and applying it to others?  And what about meeting the right girl, the most important thing.  What if there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring us up and the ones who bring us down, and improving the quality of our lives is as simple as removing the ones who bring us down and adding ones who bring us up?  I don't think it takes great self esteem to start a relationship with the right girl, I think meeting the right girl gives us self esteem; doesn't mean we turn to someone to be 'rescued' or 'saved', but getting with someone who brings us up instead of down makes the whole world better.

[christin5433]

Thanks that makes sense . I don't know who was the one who got left also several days before Christmas but that's seriously just messed up! Especially when nothing that dramatic is going on except in a BPD's head . I also am in recovery so was she. I say was because before this Christmas break up of our entire family she got a kidney stone at thanksgiving and I was at ER with her sleeping on chair supportive ... .Boom she received oxycodone and immediately her personality changed it was like BPD on steroids! 2 weeks before Christmas non stop arguing of how I need to change . Threats threats threats verbal abuse emotional withdrawl! I became like a zombie laying on the couch while she ranted and rave. Finally I said your threat is accepted . Move out. She did and I didn't do my usual " don't leave " talk. I was tired and seriously I felt she was being a animal who had rabies . I do agree its about acceptance and forgiveness of self. What was done was too much. I pray and NC everyday