Contact this week. Do they feel shame after smearing? This is not recycling

[PHDnon]

Brief Intro---

Long affair with a much younger woman.  I walked away and went NC before I fully realized she was BPD.  Frankly, before I knew NC was NC.  There was history that caused me to be almost brutal about it... .I was done AND gone.  It was a very poor way to handle it.  She became dysregulated very quickly.  Became obsessed with telling my grown daughter and the woman I live with about my affair.  Social media, email, the whole nine yards.  A barrage across the board.  This was a month after she was fully aware I was done.  Fortunately, I was able to tell the two women in my life about the affair before she could blindside them.

So no contact from her since learning that I told them the truth.  Seven Weeks.  Broken by her to send me a Happy Birthday wish.  Why?

I'm aware it could be a maneuver to test the temp for a recycling attempt, but it was lame, very neutral and not likely due to that.  At least I hope...

Possibly a reminder to "don't forget she's still there and I'm somehow vulnerable?"  ie, a passive aggressive maneuver.  It was not written as "Happy Birthday".  It was " I know today is your birthday.  Hope you are well."  I've never heard it phrased that way  

Possibly a sick attempt to see if she generated the desired "hate" damage?  She did tell me during her raging two months ago that she was gonna make me hate her.  But I am not going to hate her because that gives her too much power over my life.

Or is it even possible that they feel shame once the rage dies down?  In her mind, if I somehow confirm she isn't truly the monster that she acted like, then does that help their emotional regulation?  I'm not asking for advice about any reply to her (not gonna happen), simply trying to figure out why a human would wake up and think "birthday wish... .what a great idea!"  

What is your experience with what goes through their mind after smearing?

[eyvindr]

Hi PHDnon,

Sorry you've had to experience this. Being painted black is one of the most hurtful things to be put through. I know it has been for me.

Possibly a reminder to "don't forget she's still there and I'm somehow vulnerable?"  ie, a passive aggressive maneuver.  It was not written as "Happy Birthday".  It was " I know today is your birthday.  Hope you are well."  I've never heard it phrased that way  

Interesting, to me -- the way she uses language. Very similar to how my ex would speak/write to me at times when she was dysregulated. In our case, it was usually an attempt on her end to "take the high road" -- as in, I know we're having a stupid fight, and you refuse to let it go or even talk to me like an adult, but I am going to let you know that despite all of that, I haven't forgotten that it's your birthday, and I'm letting you know because if I didn't I'm sure you'd accuse me of ignoring you on your special day." That's what it would have been in my world. Can't speak for yours.

Best I can tell you is hang in there, stay strong, remember the smear effort and try your best not to think too much about it.

[ShadowIntheNight]

Brief Intro---

Long affair with a much younger woman.  I walked away and went NC before I fully realized she was BPD.  Frankly, before I knew NC was NC.  There was history that caused me to be almost brutal about it... .I was done AND gone.  It was a very poor way to handle it.  She became dysregulated very quickly.  Became obsessed with telling my grown daughter and the woman I live with about my affair.  Social media, email, the whole nine yards.  A barrage across the board.  This was a month after she was fully aware I was done.  Fortunately, I was able to tell the two women in my life about the affair before she could blindside them.

So no contact from her since learning that I told them the truth.  Seven Weeks.  Broken by her to send me a Happy Birthday wish.  Why?

I'm aware it could be a maneuver to test the temp for a recycling attempt, but it was lame, very neutral and not likely due to that.  At least I hope...

Possibly a reminder to "don't forget she's still there and I'm somehow vulnerable?"  ie, a passive aggressive maneuver.  It was not written as "Happy Birthday".  It was " I know today is your birthday.  Hope you are well."  I've never heard it phrased that way  

Possibly a sick attempt to see if she generated the desired "hate" damage?  She did tell me during her raging two months ago that she was gonna make me hate her.  But I am not going to hate her because that gives her too much power over my life.

Or is it even possible that they feel shame once the rage dies down?  In her mind, if I somehow confirm she isn't truly the monster that she acted like, then does that help their emotional regulation?  I'm not asking for advice about any reply to her (not gonna happen), simply trying to figure out why a human would wake up and think "birthday wish... .what a great idea!"  

What is your experience with what goes through their mind after smearing?

My uBPDexgf sent me a breakup note saying she wanted to make sure I received the birthday card from her. That's right. Ended a 9.5 yr relationship with a typewritten note in a birthday card telling me she wanted me to know that she remembered my birthday. And oh yes, I've been cheating on you all summer. She didn't phrase it that way in the note, but she was clear about it. I think having a bullet to my head would have been the same difference. Remarkably, she SIGNED the inside of the birthday card as Love, **her name**. FU would have been more appropriate, it was the same difference.

I have deduced I haven't heard from her really because of guilt and shame. Don't know how religious your OW was, but mine was, even sends her kids to parochial school. She feels guilt and shame. I'm sure of it. And that's what she should feel at the very least. I think after they have made an idiot of themselves they truly do feel shame and/or guilt. I'm sure mine does. And I hope she feels it every minute of every day.

[myself]

This was an affair that went on for years, you suddenly dumped her and now think she's BPD because she got upset about it? Is the 'shame' she may be feeling perhaps due to being abandoned by you? Do you feel shame for how you handled it (not judging, just asking)? Would your daughter and/or woman you're with also be labeled BPD if they responded similarly to being treated that way? Our being NC doesn't erase the other person's pain, or lessen their frustration/confusion as to what's going on and why. What caused you to discard her? Sounds complicated on both sides of this.

[christin5433]

Brief Intro---

Long affair with a much younger woman.  I walked away and went NC before I fully realized she was BPD.  Frankly, before I knew NC was NC.  There was history that caused me to be almost brutal about it... .I was done AND gone.  It was a very poor way to handle it.  She became dysregulated very quickly.  Became obsessed with telling my grown daughter and the woman I live with about my affair.  Social media, email, the whole nine yards.  A barrage across the board.  This was a month after she was fully aware I was done.  Fortunately, I was able to tell the two women in my life about the affair before she could blindside them.

So no contact from her since learning that I told them the truth.  Seven Weeks.  Broken by her to send me a Happy Birthday wish.  Why?

I'm aware it could be a maneuver to test the temp for a recycling attempt, but it was lame, very neutral and not likely due to that.  At least I hope...

Possibly a reminder to "don't forget she's still there and I'm somehow vulnerable?"  ie, a passive aggressive maneuver.  It was not written as "Happy Birthday".  It was " I know today is your birthday.  Hope you are well."  I've never heard it phrased that way  

Possibly a sick attempt to see if she generated the desired "hate" damage?  She did tell me during her raging two months ago that she was gonna make me hate her.  But I am not going to hate her because that gives her too much power over my life.

Or is it even possible that they feel shame once the rage dies down?  In her mind, if I somehow confirm she isn't truly the monster that she acted like, then does that help their emotional regulation?  I'm not asking for advice about any reply to her (not gonna happen), simply trying to figure out why a human would wake up and think "birthday wish... .what a great idea!"  

What is your experience with what goes through their mind after smearing?

I went through this type of what I call Grand Finale ending. Not just a end a complete dedicated attempt to thrash you and they mission accomplished ! One more for the BPD team. No seriously it sucked I actually thought of blowing my brains out during the holidays... .Smear campaign at Christmas : No Christmas no one was talking about santa or jingle bells I was the main topic: how I was the one who controlled manipulated stole lied and even forced sex at times during the holidays w her ex husband and friends and family . I had a attitude of " no comment " because it was too shocking. We were known as a family well known in our small community and also were known as a well loved family her I and our 2 girls. Well respected and liked. Not anymore! Then she shut off all my stuff bank accts post office box utilities gym membership Ect . Still I was " no comment" then she unfriended me Christmas Eve ... .And 2 days after Christmas her ex almost hit me while yelling at me at the storage unit I purchased for her stuff and then on the same evening at 1030 pm she came over w a couple car loads of people and police to walk through my house... .After I had filled her storage unit earlier that day! I love writing this because I know how I'm so done. Well 6 weeks later she says " hey I hurt you u hurt me let's not go over these topics" and then asks if our kids can hang out? That's truely NO REMORSE

[PHDnon]

Interesting, to me -- the way she uses language. Very similar to how my ex would speak/write to me at times when she was dysregulated. In our case, it was usually an attempt on her end to "take the high road" -- as in, I know we're having a stupid fight, and you refuse to let it go or even talk to me like an adult, but I am going to let you know that despite all of that, I haven't forgotten that it's your birthday, and I'm letting you know because if I didn't I'm sure you'd accuse me of ignoring you on your special day." That's what it would have been in my world. Can't speak for yours.

Was your wife a Queen/Witch?  I was married for two decades to one that was both.  And that was her reaction after the divorce smearing.  I didn't see it coming with this one... .complete waif.  All the signs were there with 20/20 vision... .she raged inward at herself, not outward.  Plus, when you aren't around them 24/7, I'm assuming its easier for a waif to hide dysregulation.

I'm back talking to the same T that helped me through my divorce mess.  Obviously I have work to do to figure out why I had an affair in the first place.  

[PHDnon]

This was an affair that went on for years, you suddenly dumped her and now think she's BPD because she got upset about it? Is the 'shame' she may be feeling perhaps due to being abandoned by you? Do you feel shame for how you handled it (not judging, just asking)? Would your daughter and/or woman you're with also be labeled BPD if they responded similarly to being treated that way? Our being NC doesn't erase the other person's pain, or lessen their frustration/confusion as to what's going on and why. What caused you to discard her? Sounds complicated on both sides of this.

Excellent and fair questions.  I was trying to keep the posting intro as brief as possible. 

During the final three months I was getting dizzy from running in circles around a tree.  She would call it off because she wasn't seeing me enough, despite the fact that it was her schedule and life that was the scheduling problem.  So I would push through it and set something up.  Then the circle would change.  She would cancel due to a different circle.  It was "I will hate myself if I disappoint you" PLUS "I will hate myself if I don't disappoint you."    It's confounding when you get these two concepts in the same text.  This happened whether it was simply a lunch or intimate plans.

Ten days before NC she called it off.  I told her I agreed.  There was civil communication after that.  I drifted away from trying to push through it.  I then didn't ask to see her during a window of opportunity when I previously would have asked.  Didn't have to... .she threw out the confounding "I will hate myself" loop I referenced above without even receiving an invitation.  At that point I walked away  It was too much.

A week later the raging started.  I had never seen rage from her.  She was going ballistic at me because "I knew she had severe abandonment issues because we had talked about it tons of times."  I was floored.  It was news to me... .that word had never ever ever ever come up in any communication. 

I suppose I should have reaffirmed her message about calling it off.  That was a mistake on my part to disappear.  I was dizzy from the running in circles.  But I now think the rage was because I didn't push through it and complete her "pull" cycle.

[PHDnon]

I went through this type of what I call Grand Finale ending. Not just a end a complete dedicated attempt to thrash you and they mission accomplished ! One more for the BPD team. No seriously it sucked I actually thought of blowing my brains out during the holidays... .Smear campaign at Christmas : No Christmas no one was talking about santa or jingle bells I was the main topic: how I was the one who controlled manipulated stole lied and even forced sex at times during the holidays w her ex husband and friends and family . I had a attitude of " no comment " because it was too shocking. We were known as a family well known in our small community and also were known as a well loved family her I and our 2 girls. Well respected and liked. Not anymore! Then she shut off all my stuff bank accts post office box utilities gym membership Ect . Still I was " no comment" then she unfriended me Christmas Eve ... .And 2 days after Christmas her ex almost hit me while yelling at me at the storage unit I purchased for her stuff and then on the same evening at 1030 pm she came over w a couple car loads of people and police to walk through my house... .After I had filled her storage unit earlier that day! I love writing this because I know how I'm so done. Well 6 weeks later she says " hey I hurt you u hurt me let's not go over these topics" and then asks if our kids can hang out? That's truely NO REMORSE

WOW that is horrible.  I'm sorry that you had to go through that.

Maybe there is a "thing" with BPDs regarding storage units.  My ex wife went nuts and started filing motions during our divorce because I put things in a storage unit to prep the house for sale.  It was all done at the request of our realtor.

For good measure she told the community that our divorce was due to the fact that I was gay.  Fortunately that smear was so far out there that it caused most people to chunk her into the crazy pile.    

[christin5433]

I went through this type of what I call Grand Finale ending. Not just a end a complete dedicated attempt to thrash you and they mission accomplished ! One more for the BPD team. No seriously it sucked I actually thought of blowing my brains out during the holidays... .Smear campaign at Christmas : No Christmas no one was talking about santa or jingle bells I was the main topic: how I was the one who controlled manipulated stole lied and even forced sex at times during the holidays w her ex husband and friends and family . I had a attitude of " no comment " because it was too shocking. We were known as a family well known in our small community and also were known as a well loved family her I and our 2 girls. Well respected and liked. Not anymore! Then she shut off all my stuff bank accts post office box utilities gym membership Ect . Still I was " no comment" then she unfriended me Christmas Eve ... .And 2 days after Christmas her ex almost hit me while yelling at me at the storage unit I purchased for her stuff and then on the same evening at 1030 pm she came over w a couple car loads of people and police to walk through my house... .After I had filled her storage unit earlier that day! I love writing this because I know how I'm so done. Well 6 weeks later she says " hey I hurt you u hurt me let's not go over these topics" and then asks if our kids can hang out? That's truely NO REMORSE

WOW that is horrible.  I'm sorry that you had to go through that.

Maybe there is a "thing" with BPDs regarding storage units.  My ex wife went nuts and started filing motions during our divorce because I put things in a storage unit to prep the house for sale.  It was all done at the request of our realtor.

For good measure she told the community that our divorce was due to the fact that I was gay.  Fortunately that smear was so far out there that it caused most people to chunk her into the crazy pile.    

So funny thanks I needed a laugh to jolt me out of my seriousness ) so mad at myself always ? I blame so much on me? You know they are messed up I get it but what the heck how did I screw myself over knowing fully knowing something was wrong w this picture?  Oh well must be a guilt day ... .Yes I got the storage unit because she threatened to have many people who sided w her to move her ... .I pleaded please no ... .She said I should just leave while she moves her stuff. She wouldn't negotiate because I was a thief a word never ever used on me... .I guess her and her new peeps thought that might be a good angle of getting more than was hers ? So creepy the level of hate they have to manufacture to WIN. Anyway storage ya that was so trashy . I just got in my car and left peacefully

[PHDnon]

So funny thanks I needed a laugh to jolt me out of my seriousness ) so mad at myself always ? I blame so much on me? You know they are messed up I get it but what the heck how did I screw myself over knowing fully knowing something was wrong w this picture?  Oh well must be a guilt day ... .Yes I got the storage unit because she threatened to have many people who sided w her to move her ... .I pleaded please no ... .She said I should just leave while she moves her stuff. She wouldn't negotiate because I was a thief a word never ever used on me... .I guess her and her new peeps thought that might be a good angle of getting more than was hers ? So creepy the level of hate they have to manufacture to WIN. Anyway storage ya that was so trashy . I just got in my car and left peacefully

Man, hang in there.  I used to ask myself what was wrong with this picture with my ex wife... .the answer is EVERYTHING

My ex accused me of moving my pool table out of the house at 2am while she was traveling.  Tried to gaslight me into believing she had pictures of the two men in the van that helped me.  Huh?  The person that took these mysterious 2 am pictures was a State secret .  Must have had a night vision camera.  The truth was that the company I originally bought the table from put it into our storage building during the middle of the day.  But that didn't matter... .found out later she told the neighbors that me and my gay lovers moved it at 2 am so we could hide it from her in one of their houses. 

[christin5433]

So funny thanks I needed a laugh to jolt me out of my seriousness ) so mad at myself always ? I blame so much on me? You know they are messed up I get it but what the heck how did I screw myself over knowing fully knowing something was wrong w this picture?  Oh well must be a guilt day ... .Yes I got the storage unit because she threatened to have many people who sided w her to move her ... .I pleaded please no ... .She said I should just leave while she moves her stuff. She wouldn't negotiate because I was a thief a word never ever used on me... .I guess her and her new peeps thought that might be a good angle of getting more than was hers ? So creepy the level of hate they have to manufacture to WIN. Anyway storage ya that was so trashy . I just got in my car and left peacefully

Man, hang in there.  I used to ask myself what was wrong with this picture with my ex wife... .the answer is EVERYTHING

My ex accused me of moving my pool table out of the house at 2am while she was traveling.  Tried to gaslight me into believing she had pictures of the two men in the van that helped me.  Huh?  The person that took these mysterious 2 am pictures was a State secret .  Must have had a night vision camera.  The truth was that the company I originally bought the table from put it into our storage building during the middle of the day.  But that didn't matter... .found out later she told the neighbors that me and my gay lovers moved it at 2 am so we could hide it from her in one of their houses. 

Funny stuff we live through:) that gas lighting is such bs. I had that done to me this last year and during b/u still trying to tell me my perception is wrong? I mean she's learned my language and she uses it on me ... .The fact is I'm using my language to be clear and factual. She says well that's ur perception and she's got hers. I have to accept that because its probably her perception but its NOT REALITY come on ? Just like you have a sex party at 2am. It still makes me question myself ? That's why we need to understand this crazy

[PHDnon]

Trying to discuss different perceptions is like reasoning with a 3 year old.  In the case of the raging ex wife, it was obviously FUBAR. 

With the latest Waif, it was the same only different.  Their sweetness is disarming.  But it still was vague deja vu.  It went like this:

"My guilt is your fault.  You have a girlfriend"

"But you have a husband"

"Having an affair on your girlfriend is not ok"

The only difference is a waif doesn't scream it at you

[christin5433]

Trying to discuss different perceptions is like reasoning with a 3 year old.  In the case of the raging ex wife, it was obviously FUBAR. 

With the latest Waif, it was the same only different.  Their sweetness is disarming.  But it still was vague deja vu.  It went like this:

"My guilt is your fault.  You have a girlfriend"

"But you have a husband"

"Having an affair on your girlfriend is not ok"

The only difference is a waif doesn't scream it at you

Ya it doesn't matter screaming or quietly . Mine has actually told me I'm the whole reason she is not ok. I even repeated it to her to be clear... .I'm the blame for all that's wrong w you? She firmly said yes. Ok then

[eyvindr]

One word comes to mind -- compartmentalization.

We all do it to an extent -- it's a normal part of executive brain function. Without it, everything would be a total mess.

PwBPD seem to take it to extremes, though. No surprise there. And, in true BPD fashion, there's always a double standard -- to wit, that they are entitled to compartmentalize any elements of the r-ship that they want to. While their partners have to be 100% all in on every level. Compartmentalization, when a partner does it, is often interpreted as deception and labeled as such.

Interesting -- made me remember something my ex once told me. I came to believe that she either knew or strongly suspected that she had BPD, but she'd worked up a pretty convincing alternative dx -- ADHD. Once, when she was trying to explain to me why we had communications problems, she said "the ADHD messes up how things are stored -- it's like your brain has files, and mine are all mixed up." The example that she used was that in people without ADHD, we had "files" -- like, one for recipes, one for getting dressed, one for doing bills -- and in a normally functioning brain, all of the right things are in the right folders. Whereas, in people with ADHD, they had the folders, but the contents was all mixed up -- recipes with tax receipts, grocery lists with old family photos, sewing supplies with prescriptions, etc.

In retrospect, it's pretty enlightening -- the level of insight someone can have into their own dysfunction. Makes a lot of sense, explains a lot -- but, at the same time, it's an excuse and yet another mask. Sad.

[PHDnon]

Interesting -- made me remember something my ex once told me. I came to believe that she either knew or strongly suspected that she had BPD, but she'd worked up a pretty convincing alternative dx -- ADHD. Once, when she was trying to explain to me why we had communications problems, she said "the ADHD messes up how things are stored -- it's like your brain has files, and mine are all mixed up." The example that she used was that in people without ADHD, we had "files" -- like, one for recipes, one for getting dressed, one for doing bills -- and in a normally functioning brain, all of the right things are in the right folders. Whereas, in people with ADHD, they had the folders, but the contents was all mixed up -- recipes with tax receipts, grocery lists with old family photos, sewing supplies with prescriptions, etc.

In retrospect, it's pretty enlightening -- the level of insight someone can have into their own dysfunction. Makes a lot of sense, explains a lot -- but, at the same time, it's an excuse and yet another mask. Sad.

You hit on something with my OW too.  I know from research that BPD and ADHD are frequently co-morbid.  When I first met her she was in therapy for ... .drumroll... .ADHD.  On meds.  Then one day I encouraged her in a very positive way about a difficulty she was having... .and WHAM!  I needed to understand that she once suffered from situational depression and that used to be part of her therapy too.  "Once suffered?"  I once suffered from an abscess on my butt but I don't still sit down funny.  If I recall, I started with "Sweetheart, please don't be sad."  Kiss of death.  Three months before we went NC they added Prozac to cope with overwhelming anxiety.  And that may be the list of just what I know about.

I am starting to think I will never get a grasp on my original question in this post... .do they feel shame after a smear campaign. 

[eyvindr]

PHDnon --

Definitely a high level of comorbidity in for the clusterbees.

I am starting to think I will never get a grasp on my original question in this post... .do they feel shame after a smear campaign. 

I don't think there's an easy answer -- seems to vary widely by individual. I'd guess it depends on a number of factors, including --

• where the pwBPD falls on the BPD spectrum, and BPD "type" (waif, witch, queen, hermit)



• what other PDs are in play, if any (likely)



• pwBPD's level of self-awareness



• pwBPD's native personality/temperament



• specific nature of the triggering incident



• pwBPD's perceived level of impact of the incident (ex., argument vs break-up vs NC vs criticism, etc., and any variation thereof)

Like everyone else, everyone's different.

[PHDnon]

Thank you.  That puts it in perspective.  With my ex wife, she felt ZERO shame for telling the world I was gay.  Thought it was silly that I factored that into my decision to not talk to her after the divorce.  She was confused why we couldn't be BFFs... .

With a waif that rages inward, who knows?  The witch didn't emerge until she was compelled to smear