BPD or NPD

[Beach_Babe]

Does anyone have an ex who they suspect is NPD as well?  How does this differ from plain BPD?

[billypilgrim]

Often times, BPDs have narcissistic traits or tendencies.  It's called co-morbidity and I would also lump HPD in there as well.  And at the root of the BPD person, is a core narcissistic persona.  They need you to meet their needs.  People with NPD want you and the world to revolve around them.  People with BPD want you to be their world. 

I think the biggest difference between NPDs and BPDs is their sense of self.  While I think both seem to lack clearly defined sense of self, NPDs make up for this with a grandiose and over-inflated sense of self or self importance.  BPDs secretly hate themselves and deal with it by casting out (dissociating/splitting) the negative things about themselves onto those closest to them.  This lends to the many of us nons as being "painted black" throughout the relationship, especially at the end.

 

[Turkish]

billypirlgrim's explanation is succinct.

Even shorter, I've seen it summed up here as:

NPD=false self

BPD=empty self

We have a discussion on it here: What is the relationship between BPD and narcissism (NPD)?

[Leaving]

Does anyone have an ex who they suspect is NPD as well?  How does this differ from plain BPD?

My husband was diagnosed as NPD/BPD with addiction.  When I say addiction, he's not an obvious addict like an alcoholic, sex or other substance abuser.  I notice his addictions more than anyone else would because I see how he is before and after he gets his fix.  He uses food, sugar, exercise, Facebook, work mostly but he will also take amphetamines if someone he knows has them. I've seen him binge eat and then become anorectic. It's very bizarre and disturbing.  He will also drink uncontrollably with someone who is drinking. He has no conscious control or self discipline when it comes to any of the above.  He can't stand to be alone and quiet and ' disconnected'. 

I agree with what others have said about the differences between NPD/BPD.  BTW, my mother is also NPD/BPD.  I can't stand being around my NPD husband or my mother.  The BPD aspects of his personality support his NPD in that he can easily justify his N behavior with his polarized view of the world and the people around him. 

[Leaving]

billypirlgrim's explanation is succinct.

Even shorter, I've seen it summed up here as:

NPD=false self

BPD=empty self

We have a discussion on it here: What is the relationship between BPD and narcissism (NPD)?

Narcissists are empty too.  They are empty shells who use other people to attain identity ( false self).  They are emotional vampires that suck the life out of everyone.  Yes, they appear to  have a very over-inflated sense of importance but that's their way of over-compensating for being no one on the inside.  They are incredible survivors- masters of manipulating everyone in their life to serve them in some fashion.  When they are being sweehearts, beware!  They are spinning a very deadly web that you're about to fly into.

I discovered several years ago under hypnosis that my spider phobia is really displaced fear of my mother.

[Leaving]

Often times, BPDs have narcissistic traits or tendencies.  It's called co-morbidity and I would also lump HPD in there as well.  And at the root of the BPD person, is a core narcissistic persona.  They need you to meet their needs.  People with NPD want you and the world to revolve around them.  People with BPD want you to be their world. 

I think the biggest difference between NPDs and BPDs is their sense of self.  While I think both seem to lack clearly defined sense of self, NPDs make up for this with a grandiose and over-inflated sense of self or self importance.  BPDs secretly hate themselves and deal with it by casting out (dissociating/splitting) the negative things about themselves onto those closest to them.  This lends to the many of us nons as being "painted black" throughout the relationship, especially at the end.

 

Billy, N's also secretly hate themselves. 

[willieb4]

This is a good topic. Both are Cluster B disorders

I remember feeling real angry(about a week after I went NC) when I realized my ex was NPD rather than BPD. All the things I learned from the staying board and "Stop Walking on Eggshells" had no effect, she actually got worse in trying to get a reaction out of me.

She drank like a fish, smoked weed and took many prescription drugs, so I often wonder if the substance abuse turned her more to the NPD side.

[Madison66]

Fantastic thread!  My uBPD/NPD ex gf of 3+ years was high functioning and displayed strong traits of both BPD and NPD.  We went to a couple's T who saw us both individually for a while before my ex gf abandoned the process.  I ended up using this T during the r/s and after.  My T explained that she believed my ex was a "vulnerable narcissist" co-morbid with HPD and strong BPD traits.  The message from the T was that my ex gf wouldn't change and her behavior would grow worse without serious T.  She was right on!  After I left the r/s, my T told me that in 20 years of her work she only feared the outcome for three of her patients.  I was one of them.

Since I know there was co-morbidity with my ex gf, I now look at PD's differently than I once did.  I wanted so badly to figure out what was going on with my ex with the obvious goal of finding help to save the r/s.  Now having gone through such a confusing, dysfunctional, abusive, roller coaster of a r/s and tough recovery/detachment I don't need to define it anymore.  It just didn't work for me.  There was no pill to take.  No discussion to be had.  No rationalizations to be believed.  No fairytale to hold onto.  There was just me and my understanding of my values and how I will live my life.  My ex could have all of those PD's or none of them.  She just wasn't right for me... .

[billypilgrim]

Often times, BPDs have narcissistic traits or tendencies.  It's called co-morbidity and I would also lump HPD in there as well.  And at the root of the BPD person, is a core narcissistic persona.  They need you to meet their needs.  People with NPD want you and the world to revolve around them.  People with BPD want you to be their world. 

I think the biggest difference between NPDs and BPDs is their sense of self.  While I think both seem to lack clearly defined sense of self, NPDs make up for this with a grandiose and over-inflated sense of self or self importance.  BPDs secretly hate themselves and deal with it by casting out (dissociating/splitting) the negative things about themselves onto those closest to them.  This lends to the many of us nons as being "painted black" throughout the relationship, especially at the end.

 

Billy, N's also secretly hate themselves. 

Agree, but I think there's a key difference in the way that hate manifests itself with their behavior. Like I mentioned above, BPDs want you to be their world.  NPDs want to be the world.

[christin5433]

Fantastic thread!  My uBPD/NPD ex gf of 3+ years was high functioning and displayed strong traits of both BPD and NPD.  We went to a couple's T who saw us both individually for a while before my ex gf abandoned the process.  I ended up using this T during the r/s and after.  My T explained that she believed my ex was a "vulnerable narcissist" co-morbid with HPD and strong BPD traits.  The message from the T was that my ex gf wouldn't change and her behavior would grow worse without serious T.  She was right on!  After I left the r/s, my T told me that in 20 years of her work she only feared the outcome for three of her patients.  I was one of them.

Since I know there was co-morbidity with my ex gf, I now look at PD's differently than I once did.  I wanted so badly to figure out what was going on with my ex with the obvious goal of finding help to save the r/s.  Now having gone through such a confusing, dysfunctional, abusive, roller coaster of a r/s and tough recovery/detachment I don't need to define it anymore.  It just didn't work for me.  There was no pill to take.  No discussion to be had.  No rationalizations to be believed.  No fairytale to hold onto.  There was just me and my understanding of my values and how I will live my life.  My ex could have all of those PD's or none of them.  She just wasn't right for me... .

Exactly ! Me too same place my head and hearts at. Does it even matter just didn't work. You will never figure out this BPD/NPD... .PD stuff there on to the next anyway and who would want this again anyway

[Turkish]

Since I know there was co-morbidity with my ex gf, I now look at PD's differently than I once did.  I wanted so badly to figure out what was going on with my ex with the obvious goal of finding help to save the r/s.  Now having gone through such a confusing, dysfunctional, abusive, roller coaster of a r/s and tough recovery/detachment I don't need to define it anymore.  It just didn't work for me.  There was no pill to take.  No discussion to be had.  No rationalizations to be believed.  No fairytale to hold onto.  There was just me and my understanding of my values and how I will live my life.  My ex could have all of those PD's or none of them.  She just wasn't right for me... .

I like how you summarized all of that. What you say at the end is, in a nutshell, what my T told me.

[drummerboy]

I think NPD and BPD have the same foundation, no sense of self, self absorbed. The difference is the coping mechanisms that they employ. The BPD is always wanting someone to protect and complete them, the NPD does that by fooling themselves that they are the greatest but they do need others to agree with how great they are. Both employ a sense of self entitlement/superiority as a defence mechanism. Both are constantly in need of validation because of their low self esteem. Both are extremely sensitive to criticism. To sum up, I don't think there is a lot of difference between them, they both have the same core wounds, they just put different bandages on.

[Maternus]

I read a lot about BPD, NPD and also ASPD in the last weeks. Seems like persons with these disorders behave quite similar in relationships. I read a lot about BPD that relates to my exgf, but she also had traits of NPD and ASPD. I saw no shame or guilt in her when she broke up, no sign of empathy. She said ":)o me a favour and don't cry in front of my children. I'll lose my temper if you do." Everything was absolutely normal to her. It was normal, to break up three weeks after we moved in together, it was normal that I spent all my savings for our new home, while she already had an affair with my replacement, it was normal to listen to "Happy" by Pharrell Williams and dance through the kitchen while I was utterly devastated. She rubbed my nose in her new happy relationship and told me to be an adult when I said, that her behaviour is hurting me. She was blatantly sadistic during and after the breakup - not in a faint hearted borderline-typical way, but rather in a provocative and condescending way. The breakup was more ASPD than BPD.