Inadequacy and craving

[Trog]

Hello

I had been well on the way to moving past the relationship (or so I thought) up until yesterday when I got informed by a mutual acquaintance that my ex didn't believe the relationship es over and was posting so on social media, she was posting how she doesn't want me to leave her (even though I did 9 months ago and we've been NC for two).

During that time I've been barely surviving. What I mean by this is that I feel like an emotional zombie, concentrating on work, going through the motions with work colleagues at social occasions and feeling like my heart was missing from my chest. On autopilot. When I left my ex, I moved countries 1000 miles away to a beautiful friendly country, with sun, blue skies and all I could wish for. It's a super place but I'm not whole. There's a hole inside me so and yesterday, learning that she 'writes' and 'says' she wants me back, the hole multiplied in size and I feel immense pain in my heart. I put the words in speech marks because they are words. If she wanted to save our marriage it would have been simple (simple in my eyes), take he medication, don't blame me for every tiny thing, be bloody human, show some compassion, don't kick me when I'm down, she doesn't contact me and ask for forgiveness, she just posts and chats to people. No action. All words. I find that hurtful. We were married. If you want it, make an effort, if you don't, don't pretend.

So that's where I am. Maybe I've been kidding myself thinking I was moving on. I've been going thru the motions here, but my soul feels dead. With this information I am now conflicted, maybe it's me who should be trying to fix the marriage, why am I expecting an ill person to do it, but I don't want to go back under these conditions. She makes me miserable and she hurts me sometimes on purpose.

I know my real problem must lie elsewhere, trying to save my mother from a physically abusive father as a child. Hyper vigilance. But I am stuck. I know my problems. But seem incapable of doing a damn thing about them. I need help and I'm totally isolated in a foreign country. I am a zombie out here and now I'm a zombie in pain. I really don't know what to do.

Any advice?

[Suzn]

I'm sorry Trig, you sound very alone right now. You are not alone. I can relate to how you're feeling. I moved a year ago, to be closer to my family and to live in a larger city, more opportunities and such. The family part was a mistake. Without going into the whole story and hijacking your thread, I'll share what I did.

There were several occasions during this past year where I would get triggered and want to go back home, I still owned a home there, or I should say here because I did indeed come back home. But I gave it a solid year and I learned a few things about myself in the process. The first being that I had learned some internal skills and I used those while I was dealing with being triggered by family issues. I had no idea what a work out those skills were going get till a while after I had been there.

Second I figured something else out and that was the importance of my resources. My resources sustain me and they were all back home. My friends who are my chosen family,

I have a large group of friends and each have a unique part in my life. There are some I'm closer to for various reasons. I have friends that can be objective when I ask for that and that's reciprocal. It's also like living in a small town, though it's not, you know where everything is figuratively speaking. My T is here. My house, which is a very safe place for me is here. And I do have one fairly healthy family member here.

My point is this... .where are your resources? What normally sustains you? Our story is a little different, you have your ex on your mind and from everything you've written she doesn't help sustain you. Nothing about her behaviors are likely to change. However, having resources such as what I've shared got me through my breakup several years ago. It took a while for me to realize I needed resources, I needed other people in my life. When I was in my relationship and when we first broke up I didn't have all of these people and I had no clue about self care and internal skills. I have my T and these boards to thank for that.

About a month before I had made my decision to come home I was a mess inside not knowing what to do. I was struggling big time. One night I sat down and wrote out a very honest pros and cons list. Once I was done I called one of my close friends, one of the most objective people I know, and asked her if she had some time to go over it with me. She said absolutely, let me get a pen and some paper so I can write your list out so I can see it, I want to do this WITH you. THAT my friend is a resource.

It was pretty clear to me after writing this list out what the right decision was, what the mature decision was, because a big part of my decision had to do with my livelihood. However, my mental health and my sanity is every bit as important.

Trog I have made decisions based on an ex filling a hole in my heart in the past and it got me nowhere. That hole inside of me back then has been filled with the love of my friendships, which took some years to foster and the gratitude of having my home.

It took moving away to see that so I do not regret moving and coming back one bit. 

What do your resources look like? Where is and do you have support when you feel triggered? Will going back put you in a better place mentally? Will you have support to help you come to terms with your loss? Will going back put you in a better place financially? That's important as well because that will play a role in feeling secure.

[eeks]

"I know my problems. But seem incapable of doing a damn thing about them."

I don't know where the idea originated that, upon realizing that one's coping/survival strategies formed in childhood in response to trauma, neglect or abuse (or even just lack of parental attunement, or "secondhand" trauma i.e. parents' unresolved trauma) are ineffective and perhaps even counterproductive, and in any case no longer necessary, that this knowledge means one should be able to change one's behaviour by the application of conscious willpower.  When the real issues are neither rational nor conscious.  Maybe some people can, I'm not in a position to tell another that their perception of their own experience is incorrect, but what if a person finds that no matter what they do, they can't change?

I know I wouldn't be very popular in some circles for suggesting that there is nothing a person can willfully do about their problems.  They think it sounds like helplessness, or fatalism.  In my experience the only thing I have a choice about is a commitment to self-awareness (this can include reading books, individual contemplation, participating in forums like this one, going to therapy, learning techniques like Nonviolent Communication).  And the failure to change behaviours, thoughts, beliefs, painful emotions... .does not necessarily mean a person is weak-willed.  It might mean they have inner... .I don't even know if it's right to call them "conflicts"... .but mixed feelings.  Part of you wants change, part of you is deathly terrified of the survival implications of that change.  I personally don't see how, if a person has these inner conflicts, how they would be capable of moving forward without being aware of them.  

I used the word "survival" in the previous paragraph.  My opinion is that the only reason a living thing would do something that seems to be against its own interests is if something more important (survival) is at risk.

Your so-called "problem" behaviours, although you may identify them now with your adult, rational perspective as ineffective, causing you pain and something you would like to change... .were, when they were formed in your childhood, defenses against trauma, and were, I would argue, the most elegant, intelligent thing you could have done to protect yourself and survive, given your developmental capacities at whatever age you were.  

"Survival" does not have to mean your actual physical survival was at risk, although some people on this board probably had parents who were a threat to them that way (maybe this includes you).  Any time a parent can't "be present with" the emotions, traits or experiences of the child, and withdraws love/attunement, is enough to create this shutdown and creation of coping/survival strategies.  I don't totally understand myself yet why that is the case, but I have read that this is because the child, for their survival, must maintain the bond with their parents, and will choose to "cut off" part of themselves rather than risk the bond with their caregivers.  I am starting to get a vague awareness of my mother's reaction to certain emotions and impulses in me when I was a child, and how her dissociating from her own emotions (I described it to my therapist as "switching off" would have felt abandoning to me.  This has been hard for me to access awareness of, as she was not violent or even punishing, but her method was subtle yet effective.  

My uBPD ex told me that he would find himself in the same kinds of disappointing situations with the same kind of people and he didn't see it coming and didn't know why it was happening. I responded (among other things) that the pull of the unconscious is stronger than any conscious desire to change, and there is no such thing as "self-sabotaging" behaviour, every such behaviour is being done to prevent what the person perceives will be even worse pain.  And that the only way I knew of to change this was by working with a skilled therapist (this didn't convince him to go to therapy, but I doubt anyone here is surprised by that)

I can add now that for me, the concept of a "payoff" (in other words, what benefit are you getting from the negative behaviour?) was not useful, because somehow in my mind it didn't capture "avoiding pain" as a benefit.  Instead, I nearly always get insights by asking myself "What am I afraid would happen if I stopped doing [the behaviour in question]?"  That tends to bring the associated core relational conflict into view. (by "relational conflict" I mean things like "If I stopped trying hard to get things right, they would disapprove of me"... ."If I stopped feeling guilty, then my actions would show people how capable I really am, and how easy things are for me, and they'd get jealous and attack"

It's not always a payoff per se, more of a self protection from pain that a person, on some level, believes is too much to face.  In some cases that judgment made during the traumatic situation in childhood would have in fact been accurate.

So then, what do you do about it.  If receiving psychotherapy is not possible or practical for whatever reason... .I'm thinking at least you can keep in mind that your personal tendencies that you struggle with were, at their origin, a way of loving yourself and getting your needs met the best way you knew how.  

I might really be talking about myself more than you (there's always a risk of that), and maybe I am saying things you already know, but I hope at least some of it is helpful.

[Trog]

Hey Guys

Thanks for the responses.

This morning I took the steps to get in touch with an English speaking therapist in this city and will get myself some help. Its true that I am lonely here and I believe, because of my codependency issues, I have isolated myself quite on purpose as I believe I can deal with everything on my own (after all, I always have! Esp in the borderline relationship, whenever it was clear to outsiders we needed help all the attention from family and services always goes to her. Esp as an only child physically separating my arguing parents and being the sounding board for them on why they have issues with the other). I think, when you grow up and live in these environments you can't appreciate just how unhealthy they are. After all, you can't betray your parents and speak out against what is happening at home, the borderline is expert in making sure you are isolated whilst portraying you as the bad guy. I have understood on some level this is not normal but I believed I was strong enough to just sort it out, alone. There's no need to take all this pressure on alone. So I'm going to get help and set boundaries in my relationships.

Thanks to everyone who responded to me since Thursday, I'm feeling a lot better and whilst it was painful to hear my wife saying these things and made me feel conflicted, it seems it was the catalyst I needed to take some action and get some support.

[Trog]

What do your resources look like? Where is and do you have support when you feel triggered? Will going back put you in a better place mentally? Will you have support to help you come to terms with your loss? Will going back put you in a better place financially? That's important as well because that will play a role in feeling secure.

My resources are zero. I don't have a best friend or any friends here or anywhere else to move to for that matter. The only place I could go back is my parents who already think I should be over my ex wife. I would not be better off financially. My best options seems to be to stay here and make a effort to make new friends and stay in contact with social media with those family and friends I do have at home.

I think the therapist is going to be the big help.

Last night and this morning I spent just sobbing. My ex wife would take me back, but I know it will be under the exact same conditions (IE, everything is my fault, no self awareness, not taking the prescribed medication or attending therapy), I'd still be in a bad relationship with her and it would be worse as our families are now hostile to us and she truly believes me to be the one at fault and would be expecting me to make things better in the relationship and no doubt be sorry. That sounds very unappealing but the pain I feel in my heart is so heavy, I loved my wife, I had such hopes for us and there were some good times they never lasted long for the push/pull. My biggest problem is that I never felt this pull and "love" for anyone else in my life, and I still feel that I love my wife, how on earth can I move on if a) I still love her and b) if I never felt like that for anyone before, how can I know I'll feel love for anyone else. It's been 9 months, I haven't so much as looked at another woman and I have had offers but I feel nothing.

My therapist is going to be very busy.

[Suzn]

What you describe about going back to your ex and where you lived prior doesn't sound appealing at all. Trog you are grieving, this is what grieving feels like. I know it sucks big time but please know that being capable of feeling this pain all the way through is healthy and you will make it. Let the tears come, it will subside.

I'd like to point out that I see two resources in what you wrote and the fact that you are acquiring a third. You have these boards and you have friends (or acquaintances not sure where you place them) on social media. And you are searching out a T. That's three altogether. Social media plays a big part in my life. A lot of people hate Facebook and I get why however you can make adjustments where needed to make it a safe place for you.

I have wasted no time attempting to be friends with people that are not respectful of contact through social media. Some people are just not capable of leaving drama at the door before entering.

When I first met my T I was right where you are in the grieving process. I was in tears a lot. Her first order of business with me was to teach me about self care. She explained when we are in the thick of this pain that we should treat this no different that having the flu. Getting plenty of rest and trying to eat right was important, I wasn't sleeping well at all. First time in my life that I couldn't sleep. At one point I took matters into my own hands and used an over the counter sleep aid. The results were amazing actually. I used that for only 3 days and got some much needed rest. I could think straight and I felt a lot better.

As far as friends were concerned she told me to work towards one or two to start. No more than that in the beginning because it could become draining. I was totally depleted so self care took priority. Friendships will happen.

It's good you haven't involved yourself with another woman right now. That would have only been a bandaid solution. Being emotionally available is a key to healthy relationships.

I think you might have more in the resource dept than you are giving credit to. Your job is also a resource and I left that out. My job has been helpful to distract me at times. Being able to focus on something else besides my pain helped give my mind a break.

All these things alone don't cure our hurt. It's a combination of grieving and reaching out and you are doing that. You're on the right track my friend. Keep going.  

[jhkbuzz]

"I know my problems. But seem incapable of doing a damn thing about them."

I don't know where the idea originated that, upon realizing that one's coping/survival strategies formed in childhood in response to trauma, neglect or abuse (or even just lack of parental attunement, or "secondhand" trauma i.e. parents' unresolved trauma) are ineffective and perhaps even counterproductive, and in any case no longer necessary, that this knowledge means one should be able to change one's behaviour by the application of conscious willpower.  When the real issues are neither rational nor conscious.  Maybe some people can, I'm not in a position to tell another that their perception of their own experience is incorrect, but what if a person finds that no matter what they do, they can't change?

I know I wouldn't be very popular in some circles for suggesting that there is nothing a person can willfully do about their problems.  They think it sounds like helplessness, or fatalism.  In my experience the only thing I have a choice about is a commitment to self-awareness (this can include reading books, individual contemplation, participating in forums like this one, going to therapy, learning techniques like Nonviolent Communication).  And the failure to change behaviours, thoughts, beliefs, painful emotions... .does not necessarily mean a person is weak-willed.  It might mean they have inner... .I don't even know if it's right to call them "conflicts"... .but mixed feelings. Part of you wants change, part of you is deathly terrified of the survival implications of that change.  I personally don't see how, if a person has these inner conflicts, how they would be capable of moving forward without being aware of them.  

Very interesting, honest response!

The failure to change behaviors... .interesting thought - many of these survival strategies are so deeply ingrained, and originated so far back in time, that it is monumental to simply become AWARE of them.  And heal them?  I'm not sure you can - and I'm not sure you can't - but my T talks a lot about becoming aware of triggers that can cause me to utilize an "ancient" strategy that is ultimately self defeating. That's the self awareness piece that you mentioned.

The question is, if you become self aware enough that you can recognize your triggers and make the conscious decision to not employ some of the strategies you used in childhood, could this "habit" of making a different choice heal you over time?  I think it's entirely possible that it could.

[eeks]

The failure to change behaviors... .interesting thought - many of these survival strategies are so deeply ingrained, and originated so far back in time, that it is monumental to simply become AWARE of them.  And heal them?  I'm not sure you can - and I'm not sure you can't - but my T talks a lot about becoming aware of triggers that can cause me to utilize an "ancient" strategy that is ultimately self defeating. That's the self awareness piece that you mentioned.

The question is, if you become self aware enough that you can recognize your triggers and make the conscious decision to not employ some of the strategies you used in childhood, could this "habit" of making a different choice heal you over time?  I think it's entirely possible that it could.

This video www.dianepooleheller.com/2015/01/video-2-2/ is referring to life-or-death situations (she gives the example of someone who almost drowned) but she says that stimuli in a current situation that remind a person of a trauma can trigger dissociation, and when a person dissociates they don't get to experience the return to safety, they don't experience feeling that "the danger is over", and so the trauma is always ahead of them in time.

So if a person has past trauma that was a threat to their life or physical safety (eg abuse), I would say no, they can't "consciously decide" their way out of their strategies.  There would have to be some kind of therapy such as the type the woman in the video does, Somatic Experiencing, that addresses the physiological threat response.

With respect to developmental trauma, as I mentioned before, the child interprets a threat to the bond with the caregiver as a threat to their survival.  In one of my responses to someone recently here, I mentioned Bruce Tift's audio series "Already Free", in which he says that most of the people he works with (as a therapist) experience a survival-level panic associated with feeling or acknowledging emotions, experiences, behaviours that were not accepted in their family of origin.  

If I investigate the anxiety that I experience, it's not so much that there's something that's "too intense to feel", but sort of an unresolvable tension, that there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to make myself safe.  Which makes sense, if what I'm actually feeling is that contradiction "I am this, but my (parents/teachers/family members/etc.) don't want me to be this."  

"Self-awareness" is a necessary component, but I'm not sure that "aware that you are using an ancient strategy but that it is ultimately self defeating" is sufficient awareness, and I don't think "conscious deciding" can override survival-level panic.  

I just read this www.reichandlowentherapy.org/Content/Challenges/trying.html and I thought, what would happen if I stopped trying to be good enough, get things right etc. in order to be worthy of love? I very quickly feel a pleasurable, sensual energy with little urgency to do anything, and the sense that anything that needs to be done can be done easily.‏  On previous occasions, I have been aware of such an experience, but it is difficult to stay in it because I feel that panic!  Then if I stay with the panic it evolves into a sort of despair, like "I haven't died yet but it's inevitable".

My therapist thinks that my mother's unresolved sexual abuse at age 4 (she didn't tell her parents, because she didn't think they would help, which was probably unfortunately correct, and she has never had therapy, to this day she blames herself for it) means that she has to keep tight controls on her own emotions (anger, passion, sexuality, any sort of spontaneous expression), and dissociates from them, and felt anxiety about that type of energy when I expressed it.  At first I would get a bit annoyed when he kept bringing this up in situations that didn't seem to have any sexual context, but the more I think about it, looking for what is the "core" of the emotional dynamic here, I am finding it relevant.  Not the only thing, but probably an important thing.

[Blimblam]

Trog if you can afford therapy go for it! 

Meditstion does help but to get like big results it takes like a full time practice.  I'm talking like 20+ hours a week.  But more realalistcly like 40+ hours a week in total isolation for weeks or months at a time. 

Also in lucid dreams there is a woman who may change characters many times in the dream or change faces.  She is the woman with you at the time in the dream and she will lead you to confront a dream charachter that you fear, this is the archetype of your shadow. Well if you confront your shadow and you sort of pass the trial so to speak a bunch of your unconcious will be made concious in a sort of intense stream connecting patterns to child hood memories and the how it connects to your life and how you are deluding yourself. 

And by the way that woman in your dreams is what you projected onto your ex and your mother when you felt that godlike soulmate type connection.

That and perhaps reading psychology books helps a lot.  A good one to start with is The search for the real self by masterson.

[Grey Kitty]

  Going from feeling like an emotional zombie to sobbing is hard... .and it is progress. Be gentle with yourself, allow yourself feel that pain, and grieve. 

I've been there. In my case, I've been (somewhat) emotionally checked out all my life, pretty much dating back to my childhood, which I would characterize as emotional neglect rather than emotional abuse. Without hijacking your thread, what I experienced "wasn't that bad" and wasn't directed at me... .but it still left me with a lot of things unlearned that I'm realizing I need to be fulfilled in my life.

My marriage took a different path too--It went pretty well for a decade, and then the abusive behavior started to ramp up. It hit a peak, and I eventually found these forums, boundaries, and stopped taking it. My wife improved and stopped trying to do it. But at that time I grieved a lot--and I realized that staying in my marriage as it was could destroy me, turning me into a hollow shell of myself, and I resolved to get myself out if I couldn't improve things.

Then after that improvement a close death brought my wife way down... .and she had a horrible grieving year, regressed to the worst mental health I've seen in her ever, and ultimately led to us separating. We originally separated for logistical reasons, and only recently have I decided I need the separation for relationship reasons. FYI, this is despite the abusive behavior never returning!

I went through not one, but two major stages of grieving my marriage. In the first, I was willing to end it simply to save myself. I knew that I wouldn't have anything left if I was subject to the abuse much longer. Not physical survival, but emotional/spiritual survival.

The second I'm still working through. Now I'm willing to walk away from my marriage because there isn't enough left in it for me. I don't want to be in a relationship where I'm not wanted and loved the way I need. I believe I'm worth more than that, and that my wife shows no sign of offering that to me... .even though she's not sending me clear messages about wanting to end our marriage.

... .and let me second the sort of things that suzn says about friends (chosen family) and other support. I've got an AMAZING team of incredibly awesome people behind me, people who have listened to me, validated me, held my hand, given me advice, and gently called me on stuff that I really could do better... .and even more wonderful than that, simply by being who they are and living the way they are living, inspired me to want to better myself! My first period, I really leaned strongly on 5-6 people, with the two at the head of the list changing over the months. My current period I've really leaned strongly on two others, and also had support from some of the original ones, and some new ones.

BTW, social media/phone/email has been a lifeline for me. I'm living in a place that I don't intend to stay much longer, and where I have a few acquaintances/coworkers, plus one person who is good-hearted and supportive... .but clearly isn't making room for me in his life in a significant way. He is very busy, and I'm not a priority for him. (I called on him for potential help once when my wife was near-suicidal... .but haven't even told him I'm having marital difficulties in the last four months, and if I do, it is a jump forward to being separated already!)

Last thought--I've done mindfulness meditation, and found it very helpful. Over the years, I've done three week~10-day retreats, and a couple shorter ones. I've had a daily or weekly practice at some times, never more than 4 hours/week. My first 10-day retreat I did at a time of personal crisis, and it qualifies as life-changing. If you haven't done any, I recommend trying it.

[jhkbuzz]

 Going from feeling like an emotional zombie to sobbing is hard... .and it is progress. Be gentle with yourself, allow yourself feel that pain, and grieve.  

I've been there. In my case, I've been (somewhat) emotionally checked out all my life, pretty much dating back to my childhood, which I would characterize as emotional neglect rather than emotional abuse. Without hijacking your thread, what I experienced "wasn't that bad" and wasn't directed at me... .but it still left me with a lot of things unlearned that I'm realizing I need to be fulfilled in my life.

My marriage took a different path too--It went pretty well for a decade, and then the abusive behavior started to ramp up. It hit a peak, and I eventually found these forums, boundaries, and stopped taking it. My wife improved and stopped trying to do it. But at that time I grieved a lot--and I realized that staying in my marriage as it was could destroy me, turning me into a hollow shell of myself, and I resolved to get myself out if I couldn't improve things.

Then after that improvement a close death brought my wife way down... .and she had a horrible grieving year, regressed to the worst mental health I've seen in her ever, and ultimately led to us separating. We originally separated for logistical reasons, and only recently have I decided I need the separation for relationship reasons. FYI, this is despite the abusive behavior never returning!

I went through not one, but two major stages of grieving my marriage. In the first, I was willing to end it simply to save myself. I knew that I wouldn't have anything left if I was subject to the abuse much longer. Not physical survival, but emotional/spiritual survival.

The second I'm still working through. Now I'm willing to walk away from my marriage because there isn't enough left in it for me. I don't want to be in a relationship where I'm not wanted and loved the way I need. I believe I'm worth more than that, and that my wife shows no sign of offering that to me... .even though she's not sending me clear messages about wanting to end our marriage.

... .and let me second the sort of things that suzn says about friends (chosen family) and other support. I've got an AMAZING team of incredibly awesome people behind me, people who have listened to me, validated me, held my hand, given me advice, and gently called me on stuff that I really could do better... .and even more wonderful than that, simply by being who they are and living the way they are living, inspired me to want to better myself! My first period, I really leaned strongly on 5-6 people, with the two at the head of the list changing over the months. My current period I've really leaned strongly on two others, and also had support from some of the original ones, and some new ones.

BTW, social media/phone/email has been a lifeline for me. I'm living in a place that I don't intend to stay much longer, and where I have a few acquaintances/coworkers, plus one person who is good-hearted and supportive... .but clearly isn't making room for me in his life in a significant way. He is very busy, and I'm not a priority for him. (I called on him for potential help once when my wife was near-suicidal... .but haven't even told him I'm having marital difficulties in the last four months, and if I do, it is a jump forward to being separated already!)

Last thought--I've done mindfulness meditation, and found it very helpful. Over the years, I've done three week~10-day retreats, and a couple shorter ones. I've had a daily or weekly practice at some times, never more than 4 hours/week. My first 10-day retreat I did at a time of personal crisis, and it qualifies as life-changing. If you haven't done any, I recommend trying it.

I think the bolded is the hardest part of ending these r/s's... .and where I've recognized my responsibility lies as well. I was unhappy in the r/s... .but I loved her (and because she didn't send me clear signals about wanting "out," I waited, hoping it would get better.  My logic (which I now recognized as flawed) was this:  "If I was in a r/s with someone I no longer loved, I would end it." I thought that, since it's what I would do, it's what everyone would do - so her unwillingness to end it must, by default, mean that she loved me.  

Very naive of me. I now know that there are a plethora of reasons why people stay in r/s's; many of which have little to do with "love."

As for the feeling of being "stuck" - if you are examining yourself (and especially if you're seeing a T), time is the answer.  Not a popular answer to be sure - I personally want this pain to end and I want it to end RIGHT NOW. But time is what's needed.