After 2 weeks NC, I get a plea for help

[Ripped Heart]

Tonight I get a text message from exBPDgf in a state of sheer desperation over money. For those of you who have followed my story, I've single-handedly kept her afloat for the past year whilst she went out and spent her money on whatever and whoever she wanted to. I blocked her number on my phone and I'm sure she knew that because the texts have been sent from her daughters phone, which isn't blocked.

I bought her a car, paid her bills, kept her in gas and electricity, drew up a schedule for her debts. Took care of everything through November and December so she had the money to buy her kids what she wanted to get them for christmas, took her away on vacation and basically deflected all the crap so she didn't have to stress or feel anxious about anything. To repay me for all of that she cheated on me several times but kept coming back when her life was falling apart.

So the text message I got tonight went like this:

I know you hate me and I'm the last person you want to hear from but I really need you. My car insurance is about to be cancelled and I have no money to pay it. You have always been good to me, known what to do and what to say and right now I'm in a deep hole. If I don't pay the car insurance today they will cancel it. Can you speak to the insurance company and get them to hold off on the payment until Thursday because I will have the money then to pay it. I'm asking because you have always been able to handle this sort of thing and I don't have the right words to say. Please can you help, I don't know where else to turn

So after I didn't respond all day, I get the following message:

It doesn't matter, I shouldn't have asked. Forget about it

I'm feeling quite triggered right now, because again, it's all about the money. She wasn't responsible enough and was happy to spend 2 weeks drinking away what she did have.

She's also followed up with an email:

Please ignore the texts, I panicked and don't know how to sort this out. Hope you are ok and that your time with the girls is going well x

[rlhmm]

the simple answer... .no. just no. block her number, or change yours... .     

[Notwendy]

Ripped Heart, remember the extinction burst about setting up a boundary. Sometimes the behavior can escalate. If this is a boundary that you value, then no matter what, you have to hold on to it, even during these times. You know how intermittent reinforcement works- if you give in periodically, it reinforces the behavior even more strongly.

This principle holds true for most living things that have learned behavior. It worked for the dog in Skinners box, and it works with people. The most common situation is with kids. Kids test boundaries. Say "no you can not have candy before dinner" and a kid is likely to say "please? I promise I will eat dinner anyway". Yes, they can make us feel bad, but we say no to candy before dinner because it is good for them. It's a firm boundary.

Why wouldn't your X do this? She learned that it works. She knows that you have given in to her in the past, so why would this time be any different? She knows that it works, because she learned that it does. Now, who do you think taught her that it works with you?

People do what they do for a payoff, even if there is a cost to it. Rescuing has a payoff- it makes you feel good, needed, loved, validated. It also relieves you of being in this situation where you feel like the bad guy for saying no.However, you know that this relief is only temporary, until the next time she turns to you.

She has a payoff too. She could learn to stand on her own two feet, be responsible for her finances, but that would take more effort than to just ask you. However, the cost to her of taking this choice is that she doesn't learn to be responsible for herself.

The boundary is something you want, but just like giving the kid candy which he will eat and then not eat dinner, ask yourself is this really good for her to be dependent on you and not learn to stand on her own two feet?

It's hard to say no, to be the bad guy, and to even watch someone get into a tough situation. However, rescuing people is part of what keeps them getting themselves in tough situations. If she is left to face her situation, she may actually learn how to deal with it ( or not) but will she learn this if you are always rescuing her?

The same principle applies to raising kids. It would be fun to be the cool fun parent- buy them all the toys they want, give them candy for dinner, watch all the TV they want, stay up all night, give them all the money they want when they are teens. It is hard to say no, to be the bad guy, the parent your kids are mad at, but you know that by saying no to them sometimes, it is for their own good, and by having to earn some things they want, they are taking steps to be independent. If a parent have them all they wanted, they would not learn how to manage their frustrations or how to earn what they want, and to spend it wisely.

If you set this boundary and don't hold firm to it, she will learn that your boundaries aren't firm boundaries. She will see that this works? Do you want to teach her this?

[Ripped Heart]

Can't change my number because it's my work phone and she is blocked on there anyway. Hasn't stopped her using an alternate phone to contact me this time. I knew it was coming, was only a matter of time but I'm not going to respond or sort it out for her this time. Actions have consequences and at 45, you would have expected her to learn that already.

The emails are flooding in now:

I'm really sorry for contacting you, just wanted you to know I didn't deserve someone like you so I hit the destruct button before you found out what I'm really like xx

[Notwendy]

Another thing RH, this is hard for you, and that's expected so even if it is hard, you can stand firm with the decision you want to make. It is new behavior. Whenever we practice a new behavior, it feels uncomfortable, scary, anxious. Eventually, we practice it and it becomes better.

Right now, this is going to be tough for you. You have been the rescuer, and this is a role that feels familiar to you. However, choosing the predictable comfortable role may not always be the best for us.

You are stepping out into doing something new, and something good for you. Yes, it is pretty rough to start something- like running after being a couch potato, or choosing a salad over a favorite candy bar, but soon, we get better at doing the things we choose to do because they are better for us.

[Suzn]

We're talking about car insurance, not the end of the world if it gets cancelled...

You are not obligated to respond

[nowwhatz]

WOW. This sounds familiar only it happens to me a week or 2 into a recycle before I get hit with all the financial obligations. You must have a big heart and a lot of compassion.

Far be it from me to give you advice... .but I like what the others have said in their responses to you. I hope you can find peace from this soon.

[Ripped Heart]

Ripped Heart, remember the extinction burst about setting up a boundary. Sometimes the behavior can escalate. If this is a boundary that you value, then no matter what, you have to hold on to it, even during these times. You know how intermittent reinforcement works- if you give in periodically, it reinforces the behavior even more strongly.

This principle holds true for most living things that have learned behavior. It worked for the dog in Skinners box, and it works with people. The most common situation is with kids. Kids test boundaries. Say "no you can not have candy before dinner" and a kid is likely to say "please? I promise I will eat dinner anyway". Yes, they can make us feel bad, but we say no to candy before dinner because it is good for them. It's a firm boundary.

Why wouldn't your X do this? She learned that it works. She knows that you have given in to her in the past, so why would this time be any different? She knows that it works, because she learned that it does. Now, who do you think taught her that it works with you?

People do what they do for a payoff, even if there is a cost to it. Rescuing has a payoff- it makes you feel good, needed, loved, validated. It also relieves you of being in this situation where you feel like the bad guy for saying no.However, you know that this relief is only temporary, until the next time she turns to you.

She has a payoff too. She could learn to stand on her own two feet, be responsible for her finances, but that would take more effort than to just ask you. However, the cost to her of taking this choice is that she doesn't learn to be responsible for herself.

The boundary is something you want, but just like giving the kid candy which he will eat and then not eat dinner, ask yourself is this really good for her to be dependent on you and not learn to stand on her own two feet?

It's hard to say no, to be the bad guy, and to even watch someone get into a tough situation. However, rescuing people is part of what keeps them getting themselves in tough situations. If she is left to face her situation, she may actually learn how to deal with it ( or not) but will she learn this if you are always rescuing her?

The same principle applies to raising kids. It would be fun to be the cool fun parent- buy them all the toys they want, give them candy for dinner, watch all the TV they want, stay up all night, give them all the money they want when they are teens. It is hard to say no, to be the bad guy, the parent your kids are mad at, but you know that by saying no to them sometimes, it is for their own good, and by having to earn some things they want, they are taking steps to be independent. If a parent have them all they wanted, they would not learn how to manage their frustrations or how to earn what they want, and to spend it wisely.

If you set this boundary and don't hold firm to it, she will learn that your boundaries aren't firm boundaries. She will see that this works? Do you want to teach her this?

Couldn't have said it any better, many many thanks for that Notwendy  

She learned it works because I've always given in to that in the past. Just like a child finds the right button to push and like a rat in a maze knows if it presses a specific button for food, it will continue to find that button because it knows it gets rewarded.

It's taking every ounce of effort right now not to just hit the pay button for her car insurance and be done with it. I also know that wouldn't solve the problem, it would only create more problems further down and like you say, where do you draw the line?

I've also looked at my parenting style and I'm the cool parent. Though with my children it's slightly different. At the very beginning, I was the strict parent, very tight boundaries which I didn't give in to whilst my ex (children's mother) was the cool parent who constantly gave in. As my children got older, I gave the kids more freedom, rewarded good behaviour, punished bad behaviour so my children have grown not pushing boundaries but realising that by being themselves, good things come to them. Now my ex (children's mother) on the other hand has a much harder time as she is trying to be the strict parent now and it's not working. The kids are forever pushing the boundaries and she is having a lot of difficulty trying to control the situation which in turn comes back at me because the girls don't behave that way with me.

For example, if the girls break something. ex flies into a rage and the kids get punished. My take is that accidents happen, we can address the situation as and when it arises. Where my boundary lies is that I won't tolerate being lied to, so if I ask what happened and the kids lie, they may get grounded, not for breaking something but for lying about it. What has developed from that is that when something breaks, they can't wait to come and tell me what happened, how it happened and why it happened and then we assess the damage. It may be that we sit and discuss how we repair something or if we need take some money from their funds to replace said item if it wasn't necessarily an accident. We also look at how we can avoid the same situation in future if for example, it was caused by someone throwing a ball in the house. We look at the problem and between us come up with a solution. Exs approach, they are far more inclined to lie about what happened to avoid the consequences.

So given that I can do that with my children, why is it so difficult to do with exBPDgf? Why is it so easy for her to lie about something than to tell the truth and we find a compromise to the issue at hand? More importantly, why are my feelings and behaviours different in this instance to the approach I would usually take with my children?

[PaintedBlack28]

It could have been worse. She could have needed the money to buy food or medicines. Luckily, it was about the car insurance. She can start walking. Having commodities with your money but without you in the picture just isn't right.

My two cents.

Cheers 

[Notwendy]

RH- because the reinforcement ( to you)  is different and the relationship is different.

We love our children, and being parents and older, we can take an older and wiser approach to them.

We don't ( absolutely not) look to our children to meet our own adult needs. I think we are most susceptible to our romantic partners because they provide something that is very reinforcing to us. Sexual attraction is a pretty strong drive and reinforcer. We also share emotions and aspects of ourselves that we do not with our kids.

Most parents would do anything to protect our kids. It's a very strong bond, however, much different in nature than the bond one forms with a sexual partner. Sexual attraction can make us lose objectivity.

[Ripped Heart]

After several texts and emails tonight, I re-engaged and to be honest, I'm glad I did as I was able to keep control and not get drawn into the drama and crisis that's unfolding.

Kept it very neutral in asking how the kids were, whether her eldest had a good 21st birthday and how she was doing. She asked about my girls and what I'd been up to. She told me the reason for texting from her daughters phone is that she now has it (she had 2 phones when playing games with her ex. One for normal use, the other for texting other men in case he wanted to check her phone and find out what she was up to)

That was just further evidence to me that this was unhealthy so I'm quite happy to talk to her now without feeling an emotional attachment. Had I remained NC, I know that I would have been turning over in my mind tonight.

The important thing is that I did nothing to help her with her financial problem, left it for her to sort out. What I did say to her about it was that as she knew how I sorted things in the past, try and remember how I would have dealt with it and do the same thing.

She asked if I had met anyone else yet and I told her I went on a date at the weekend. Didn't go into specifics or the outcome of the date. Think that caught her a little off guard but that's not my issue. I know she's going to be in touch again but I also know now that I'm in a position where I no longer feel obligated to respond. I feel indifferent towards her like talking to a colleague at work, which I wouldn't have found out if I didn't respond. I think she sensed that from me too so might be an interesting week ahead but now I know I don't feel obligated any more, everything feels much lighter and easier to deal with as/when it comes.

[mks10]

Tonight I get a text message from exBPDgf in a state of sheer desperation over money. For those of you who have followed my story, I've single-handedly kept her afloat for the past year whilst she went out and spent her money on whatever and whoever she wanted to. I blocked her number on my phone and I'm sure she knew that because the texts have been sent from her daughters phone, which isn't blocked.

I bought her a car, paid her bills, kept her in gas and electricity, drew up a schedule for her debts. Took care of everything through November and December so she had the money to buy her kids what she wanted to get them for christmas, took her away on vacation and basically deflected all the crap so she didn't have to stress or feel anxious about anything. To repay me for all of that she cheated on me several times but kept coming back when her life was falling apart.

So the text message I got tonight went like this:

I know you hate me and I'm the last person you want to hear from but I really need you. My car insurance is about to be cancelled and I have no money to pay it. You have always been good to me, known what to do and what to say and right now I'm in a deep hole. If I don't pay the car insurance today they will cancel it. Can you speak to the insurance company and get them to hold off on the payment until Thursday because I will have the money then to pay it. I'm asking because you have always been able to handle this sort of thing and I don't have the right words to say. Please can you help, I don't know where else to turn

So after I didn't respond all day, I get the following message:

It doesn't matter, I shouldn't have asked. Forget about it

I'm feeling quite triggered right now, because again, it's all about the money. She wasn't responsible enough and was happy to spend 2 weeks drinking away what she did have.

She's also followed up with an email:

Please ignore the texts, I panicked and don't know how to sort this out. Hope you are ok and that your time with the girls is going well x

This exact SAME scenario happened to me 6 months ago. The same request, exact same responses from her(even the same timeline), and the same odd replies from her. My ex was so terrible with finances and was always leaning on me to bail her out. I saved all of her texts from 2014 just so I could have some kind of proof of her financial requests and why she need money. That may sound odd or unhealthy but I had to have some kind of proof so that I could remind her that I loaned her money, it was a not a a gift and she understood that. I doubt she will pay me back a dime but it was a risk I took. Six months ago I was angry, hurt, and bitter. Today, I almost find it comical. These people are so alike and their actions are so predictable. To be quite honest, it boggles my mind. I so wish I had found this message board in late 2013. It would have helped me so much.

[Infared]

Can't change my number because it's my work phone and she is blocked on there anyway. Hasn't stopped her using an alternate phone to contact me this time. I knew it was coming, was only a matter of time but I'm not going to respond or sort it out for her this time. Actions have consequences and at 45, you would have expected her to learn that already.

The emails are flooding in now:

I'm really sorry for contacting you, just wanted you to know I didn't deserve someone like you so I hit the destruct button before you found out what I'm really like xx

It's all just manipulation to her favorite, proven enabler.  

[Targeted]

I think it was also a attachment test, if she could get you to make the phone call she still had control over you, then next month it will be borrowing the money for the bill? If you do one small thing the tests will escalate from there. I just had a very short lived recycle attempt by my ex that I did not Wind up giving into, I put a post on the undecided board about it!  The only way I would ever interact with her again is if she got serious help, she needs to LEARN that! It's amazing you cannot tell them something and they will comprehend, everything seems to be a learning process for them. It looked as though she may entertain getting help and told me that she was only with one guy since we broke up and they only kissed and there was no sex, but when I told her I have not been with anybody but I did speak to a female friend of mine World War three started!  I waved the white flag and retreated to another country!

[jhkbuzz]

Tonight I get a text message from exBPDgf in a state of sheer desperation over money. For those of you who have followed my story, I've single-handedly kept her afloat for the past year whilst she went out and spent her money on whatever and whoever she wanted to. I blocked her number on my phone and I'm sure she knew that because the texts have been sent from her daughters phone, which isn't blocked.

I bought her a car, paid her bills, kept her in gas and electricity, drew up a schedule for her debts. Took care of everything through November and December so she had the money to buy her kids what she wanted to get them for christmas, took her away on vacation and basically deflected all the crap so she didn't have to stress or feel anxious about anything. To repay me for all of that she cheated on me several times but kept coming back when her life was falling apart.

So the text message I got tonight went like this:

I know you hate me and I'm the last person you want to hear from but I really need you. My car insurance is about to be cancelled and I have no money to pay it. You have always been good to me, known what to do and what to say and right now I'm in a deep hole. If I don't pay the car insurance today they will cancel it. Can you speak to the insurance company and get them to hold off on the payment until Thursday because I will have the money then to pay it. I'm asking because you have always been able to handle this sort of thing and I don't have the right words to say. Please can you help, I don't know where else to turn

So after I didn't respond all day, I get the following message:

It doesn't matter, I shouldn't have asked. Forget about it

I'm feeling quite triggered right now, because again, it's all about the money. She wasn't responsible enough and was happy to spend 2 weeks drinking away what she did have.

She's also followed up with an email:

Please ignore the texts, I panicked and don't know how to sort this out. Hope you are ok and that your time with the girls is going well x

Being triggered SUCKS... .

It seems that you've been in a pretty extreme caretaking situation with an adult.

What is triggering you?  Is it that (even if it's to a small degree) you feel like you're "abandoning" her if you don't help? That she is once again attempting take financial advantage of you? That her alcoholism fuels her irresponsible behavior?

I know when my triggers send me from 0 to 60 mph, the first thing I try to do is clearly identify why I'm feeling triggered.  Then I can address the assumptions/beliefs that are underlying the trigger. Once I do that, what I need to do becomes clearer.

If it was that I was feeling responsible for her, I'd talk that out with my T to get to the bottom of it.

If I was feeling financially taken advantage of, I'd block all available avenues of contact, because that's just gross.

If I was feeling frustrated by her alcoholism, I would probably look for support (books, groups, etc.) of people dealing with alcoholics in their lives.

Identifying the reasons for the trigger is key.

[Grey Kitty]

    I think what you did here was fantastic, Ripped!

She pulled the same sort of thing she's done to you for a year... .successfully in the past.

You knew you were triggered.

You know that what she was asking you to do wasn't going to be the right thing to do.

It took every ounce of strength you had not to pay her insurance... .and it worked.

Honestly... .I can't imagine a better outcome for you!

Next time it will be a little bit easier. 

[Ripped Heart]

  I think what you did here was fantastic, Ripped!

She pulled the same sort of thing she's done to you for a year... .successfully in the past.

You knew you were triggered.

You know that what she was asking you to do wasn't going to be the right thing to do.

It took every ounce of strength you had not to pay her insurance... .and it worked.

Honestly... .I can't imagine a better outcome for you!

Next time it will be a little bit easier.  

Many thanks Grey Kitty   it did actually feel different this time. I've been NC for 2 weeks now and felt I was in a good enough place to break that on the back of her texts and emails. I know I've come a long way with my T so felt confident in the cycles I've broken to be able to respond.

Again, I didn't respond straight away and waited until I'd managed to calm down before I did. I used a bit of SET when I did respond and through that managed to get her to contact the Insurance people to change the date herself, for which she was also grateful. Likewise, I didn't allow myself to be sucked back in, addressed her in the same way I would talking to someone neutral or at work who had a works issue. Left her feeling good about what she had accomplished on her own and didn't feel the stress of having to jump in and sort it out for her either.

The comment she made about not deserving someone like me has played on my mind a lot today because it feels like an acknowledgement, validation or acceptance but at the same time, I do have a hard time believing it given the events. I did address in my talk with her last night that I knew about the affairs as and when they happened but that I had still stood by her and wanted her to tell me the truth.

That in the end, I was the one asking for something that was unreasonable and by doing that, I hadn't been fair to her either so wanted to apologise for my part in things too. It felt good to get that out and like a huge weight lifted because she knows I don't hate her, that I do care and that I will always carry a place in my heart for her. Whatever she feels towards me today, tomorrow or next week really doesn't matter any more. I'm in a good place right now and right on track to where I want to be, got T appointment tomorrow and really enjoy being able to recognise my own patterns and cycles a lot more clearly in order to break them 

[Ripped Heart]

mks10, exactly  My exBPDgf is low functioning so her patterns are quite predictable. She gets paid in 2 days and I know most of that money will be gone on debts in no time, I expect to hear from her again in the next couple of weeks but I'm also hoping now that I've started to break patterns and that she knows she still has my support from a different stance, that future messages won't be as intense as she starts to understand that the world isn't ending. I've seen it mentioned on the boards before about detaching with love and that's how I intend to do it. I don't have ill feelings towards her, I understand what my role was in the dynamic and what I was responsible for.

jhkbuzz, my life has been one of caretaking in some capacity, a young caretaker for my sister after my parents divorced, an emotionally unavailable mother where I took on the responsibilities of the parent in our family dynamic. To being an army medic so I could "save" those less fortunate to being a father with an emotionally unstable gf who needed non-stop care for 10 years, a marriage with a pwNPD/BPD and finally an exBPDgf. I guess you can see my role in all of this now and how I was drawn to the people I was, it's what I knew and what was familiar to me. That's my fault as much as it is theirs and doing a lot of work in therapy around this. Part of the triggering is around feeling that I'm abandoning her, but the rational side says that in truth she abandoned the r/s long before. Now for me, it's not so much about feeling triggered if I don't help but more the fact that not helping is a new feeling for me so it's trying to understand what I should be feeling around stepping back, because that's not something I'm used to doing. I guess it's the newness of breaking a pattern but being concerned that I don't slide too far that I become uncaring, because that's not in my nature.

Targeted, I do think there was a sense of testing that attachment. I also think for her too, me being there to solve all of her issues in the past, it's an automatic response of hers. During the r/s, she feels stress or anxiety, I was there 24/7 to make it all go away. I talked on a previous post about having all of her debt reminders set up with my email so I got the emails when things were bad so she didn't have to. After I went NC, as they started to come in, I changed them all to her email address and put the responsibility back on her. Given that the car insurance would have gone to her now instead of me, she reached out because I was always on hand to make the pain go away and I guess she was looking for that immediate response.

Infared, I agree completely as said above to Targeted. With her being low functioning, her idea of manipulation could be seen from space. There was usually a long wind up and then she would approach it in the same way a 5 year old would. I still gave in to it before, even though it was so obvious. The messages last night were more out of panic than a calculated manipulation attempt, though I would expect she possibly thought the end result might have been the same. I would like to think her apology was sincere, what was different from the other times is that she would sooner send a suicide threat rather than an apology so that's something new.

[Targeted]

Ripped,

Same here!    I fight it all the time

[Infared]

  I think what you did here was fantastic, Ripped!

She pulled the same sort of thing she's done to you for a year... .successfully in the past.

You knew you were triggered.

You know that what she was asking you to do wasn't going to be the right thing to do.

It took every ounce of strength you had not to pay her insurance... .and it worked.

Honestly... .I can't imagine a better outcome for you!

Next time it will be a little bit easier.  

Many thanks Grey Kitty   it did actually feel different this time. I've been NC for 2 weeks now and felt I was in a good enough place to break that on the back of her texts and emails. I know I've come a long way with my T so felt confident in the cycles I've broken to be able to respond.

Again, I didn't respond straight away and waited until I'd managed to calm down before I did. I used a bit of SET when I did respond and through that managed to get her to contact the Insurance people to change the date herself, for which she was also grateful. Likewise, I didn't allow myself to be sucked back in, addressed her in the same way I would talking to someone neutral or at work who had a works issue. Left her feeling good about what she had accomplished on her own and didn't feel the stress of having to jump in and sort it out for her either.

The comment she made about not deserving someone like me has played on my mind a lot today because it feels like an acknowledgement, validation or acceptance but at the same time, I do have a hard time believing it given the events. I did address in my talk with her last night that I knew about the affairs as and when they happened but that I had still stood by her and wanted her to tell me the truth.

That in the end, I was the one asking for something that was unreasonable and by doing that, I hadn't been fair to her either so wanted to apologise for my part in things too. It felt good to get that out and like a huge weight lifted because she knows I don't hate her, that I do care and that I will always carry a place in my heart for her. Whatever she feels towards me today, tomorrow or next week really doesn't matter any more. I'm in a good place right now and right on track to where I want to be, got T appointment tomorrow and really enjoy being able to recognise my own patterns and cycles a lot more clearly in order to break them  

Ripped heart... this is all great. You are actually working on yourself (opening up and getting someone else's perspective on the real you),  having opportunities to try something different, making the effort to actually "do" something a different way (overcoming fear), and are seeing a healthy change in yourself and bonus... .you have seen some change in her behavior. I say this jokingly: Are you sure that she is BPD? LOL.  I did a lot of the things you are doing (all of them, actually), and my ex was always just bat$ whacky. There was no self awareness or apology in any way, shape or form. Just lies, blame, cruelty, etc., etc.

It is great to hear such level-headed progress from someone here. I hope that it continues!