Rescuer tendencies - Getting better but put myself in a bit of trouble

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm posting here because this relates to a non pwBPD and is more about me and my tendencies to rescue. Something I've worked on a lot with my T and getting a lot better at where to draw the boundaries but an automatic response from me last night has left me feeling annoyed with myself and I need to process why.

One of my close friends, we served under the same special forces unit in Bosnia and came out around the same time but went separate ways even though we were from the same area. I struggled with PTSD after coming out of the army based around the things we had to do and saw in Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan. My friend left shortly after our time in Bosnia so wasn't involved in the conflicts in both Kosovo and Afghanistan. Needless to say, he also suffered from PTSD too after leaving and that's where there is a difference.

I sought help shortly after coming out because I knew something wasn't right, he chose the bottle. His opinion of mental health was that they can't possibly understand what we went through because the only people that do were the people that were there. My view was that regardless of any situation, feelings and emotions (as well as the intensity) are similar for many people and help is to address those. I've repeatedly told him, no matter how much you want to, you CANNOT change the past, only learn to live with it.

We have a lot of similarities not only in the places we served but our backgrounds are very similar, he was married to an uBPDw, gone through a messy divorce (which I definitely see both sides of that) and has a daughter he too has been stopped from seeing (mainly due to the alcohol) Last year he finally took responsibility after the drink almost killed him and for the past year has been sober, seeking help for the PTSD, on medication and in the gym 2-3 times a week to get fit and healthy.

Last night I got a phone call from my friend in a lot of distress. He had been attacked outside his home and was fearful of staying home alone so I offered to put him up at mine for the night and went through to collect him. Only when I got there his house was filled with bottles and he admitted a relapse this week. I sat and talked to him for a while and since I'd offered to put him up for the night, did just that. So went off to work this morning, came back early so I could check he was ok and my house is a mess. Empty wine bottle everywhere (he's drunk 6 bottles today), crapped himself and left it all over my bathroom and is crashed out on the sofa. In the periods he has been awake, I've expressed my anger towards his actions. Explained to him that the reason he is here is because he asked for help and not so he has another place to continue with his drinking. I was told he didn't come here for a lecture, just stared blankly at me and slept through most of the afternoon and evening.

I can feel the responsibility trying to be shifted on to me because apparently "I'm the only one who understands" and "We never leave a man behind" so right now I feel extremely triggered. I couldn't follow my usual routine last night because anything on TV triggers him so I've felt uncomfortable most of the evening. I have taken myself out for a few hours just to get out of MY house and feel I shouldn't have to do that. He hasn't showered, still caked in crap, the house stinks, wine spills all over the place and a blatant disrespect for anything that is mine.

So here's what I've done whilst he's been sleeping. I've called a mental health and alcohol advice line, they referred me to another number. I called them, they can't really help as he's not working so can't really pay for their services but gave me another number. I called them and they won't do anything because it's down to him to call and not me.

Right now, I'm so angry at myself because a friend needed help and I went straight to him. I was mindful of stepping over the boundary so the deal was about him being away from a triggering environment and where he could spend a night to regroup his thoughts and get back on track. I've been very careful not to take control and "save" him but in the same respects, I now have an unwanted lodger who has disrespected my house and my property, feel used because I feel it wasn't help he wanted and just somewhere else to crash and drink and don't know how else to approach the situation without tough love.

I just feel so angry with myself right now because I thought I was doing enough to support a friend in need but not overstepping into extreme rescue territory. One difference is that I'm actually angry where usually I would be pulling out all stops so I'm angry at my friend too for his behaviour today because I feel it's completely disrespectful. As I say, I feel extremely triggered right now because this is too much for me to deal with, I have many mixed emotions right now and doing all I can not to rescue all I know is that tomorrow I want and need him out of my house but not sure of how to approach it as this is all new to me.

[Ripped Heart]

I'm posting here because this relates to a non pwBPD and is more about me and my tendencies to rescue. Something I've worked on a lot with my T and getting a lot better at where to draw the boundaries but an automatic response from me last night has left me feeling annoyed with myself and I need to process why.

One of my close friends, we served under the same special forces unit in Bosnia and came out around the same time but went separate ways even though we were from the same area. I struggled with PTSD after coming out of the army based around the things we had to do and saw in Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan. My friend left shortly after our time in Bosnia so wasn't involved in the conflicts in both Kosovo and Afghanistan. Needless to say, he also suffered from PTSD too after leaving and that's where there is a difference.

I sought help shortly after coming out because I knew something wasn't right, he chose the bottle. His opinion of mental health was that they can't possibly understand what we went through because the only people that do were the people that were there. My view was that regardless of any situation, feelings and emotions (as well as the intensity) are similar for many people and help is to address those. I've repeatedly told him, no matter how much you want to, you CANNOT change the past, only learn to live with it.

We have a lot of similarities not only in the places we served but our backgrounds are very similar, he was married to an uBPDw, gone through a messy divorce (which I definitely see both sides of that) and has a daughter he too has been stopped from seeing (mainly due to the alcohol) Last year he finally took responsibility after the drink almost killed him and for the past year has been sober, seeking help for the PTSD, on medication and in the gym 2-3 times a week to get fit and healthy.

Last night I got a phone call from my friend in a lot of distress. He had been attacked outside his home and was fearful of staying home alone so I offered to put him up at mine for the night and went through to collect him. Only when I got there his house was filled with bottles and he admitted a relapse this week. I sat and talked to him for a while and since I'd offered to put him up for the night, did just that. So went off to work this morning, came back early so I could check he was ok and my house is a mess. Empty wine bottle everywhere (he's drunk 6 bottles today), crapped himself and left it all over my bathroom and is crashed out on the sofa. In the periods he has been awake, I've expressed my anger towards his actions. Explained to him that the reason he is here is because he asked for help and not so he has another place to continue with his drinking. I was told he didn't come here for a lecture, just stared blankly at me and slept through most of the afternoon and evening.

I can feel the responsibility trying to be shifted on to me because apparently "I'm the only one who understands" and "We never leave a man behind" so right now I feel extremely triggered. I couldn't follow my usual routine last night because anything on TV triggers him so I've felt uncomfortable most of the evening. I have taken myself out for a few hours just to get out of MY house and feel I shouldn't have to do that. He hasn't showered, still caked in crap, the house stinks, wine spills all over the place and a blatant disrespect for anything that is mine.

So here's what I've done whilst he's been sleeping. I've called a mental health and alcohol advice line, they referred me to another number. I called them, they can't really help as he's not working so can't really pay for their services but gave me another number. I called them and they won't do anything because it's down to him to call and not me.

Right now, I'm so angry at myself because a friend needed help and I went straight to him. I was mindful of stepping over the boundary so the deal was about him being away from a triggering environment and where he could spend a night to regroup his thoughts and get back on track. I've been very careful not to take control and "save" him but in the same respects, I now have an unwanted lodger who has disrespected my house and my property, feel used because I feel it wasn't help he wanted and just somewhere else to crash and drink and don't know how else to approach the situation without tough love.

I just feel so angry with myself right now because I thought I was doing enough to support a friend in need but not overstepping into extreme rescue territory. One difference is that I'm actually angry where usually I would be pulling out all stops so I'm angry at my friend too for his behaviour today because I feel it's completely disrespectful. As I say, I feel extremely triggered right now because this is too much for me to deal with, I have many mixed emotions right now and doing all I can not to rescue all I know is that tomorrow I want and need him out of my house but not sure of how to approach it as this is all new to me.

[123Phoebe]

Aw man, Ripped Heart, whoa... .

I'm hoping somebody else steps in soon to offer some real advice; I don't have any, but you have my support all the way!

Have you contacted the VA?  Would they be able to help in a situation like this?

[Grey Kitty]

  That's a tough situation.

I think your efforts to call around and find some other resources for him are spot on. You aren't capable of doing full-blown alcohol detox in your home, especially while working a job.

I do have a hard (but practical) question for you:

You say he's afraid of being at his home alone. Is packing him up and driving him back home and leaving him to his own devices even an option? Or would it be as bad as turning him out of your house and locking the door?

[tjay933]

this may sound easy but i know it wouldn't be. tell him if he really wants help, he has to do it on your terms. write out an agreement with consequences for breaking the agreement being that he has to leave if he breaks it. have him sign. if he won't, take him home. this has more to do with setting boundaries than being there to take his *****. if he signs, stick with it. make him clean up anything he messes up and fix/replace anything he breaks.   just my opinion.

[vortex of confusion]

this may sound easy but i know it wouldn't be. tell him if he really wants help, he has to do it on your terms. write out an agreement with consequences for breaking the agreement being that he has to leave if he breaks it. have him sign. if he won't, take him home. this has more to do with setting boundaries than being there to take his *****. if he signs, stick with it. make him clean up anything he messes up and fix/replace anything he breaks.   just my opinion.

I think that might still fall into the rescuing mode.

When dealing with an addict, it isn't that simple. They will promise you the moon and not deliver and then you are put in a position to have to make some really tough decisions. It is okay to say, "Hey, this is too much for me. I can't deal with this."

I like GK's question about taking him home. Also, does he have anybody other that you that could help him? Other friends? Family? You mention that he has been sober for the last year. How did he do that? Did he have some kind of support? If so, do you know who/what it is and how to contact them?

I was also thinking that you might be able to contact your local United Way as they are a great source of information and usually know more about the resources available that some of the other people that I have talked to when trying to get help.

[Ripped Heart]

One of the boundaries I set was that my house is an alcohol free zone, this was set when I came back home tonight and found bottles everywhere.

About 5 mins ago, he woke, poured himself half a bottle of wine, drank it and went back to sleep. There is no respect for any boundaries in my own house and this is not what I brought him here for. Just told him under no uncertain terms that I'm taking him back to his house tomorrow. He knows my views on drinking and not only continues but continues to do it in front of my face.

In terms of cleaning up, I will take responsibility for that. It may be his actions but I allowed him here.

Grey Kitty, he's afraid of being in his own home because he isn't taking responsibility for his problem. Partly due to the fight he caused whilst drinking and secondly because if he's home alone, he will drink. That hasn't stopped him coming into my house and doing it here. He fouled the bed my children sleep in, he's left a mess that if my children were to come tomorrow would not look good and as I mentioned before, I do feel bad that he has been stopped from contact with his daughter but some of that is down to his own actions.

It's frustrating because he isn't pwBPD, he's just someone suffering from PTSD but right now I feel far more triggered than if he was pwBPD and far more disrespected too. You are right, I can't do a full blown alcohol detox in my house and I don't intend to, that wasn't what I picked him up for in the first place yesterday. However, he asked for help and instead done the complete opposite. It's really triggering the rescuer in me now because I really want to help but I also see the logic around why it's impossible for me to help him right now.

This is still new ground for me because I actually feel far more pity towards my exBPDgf right now (who incidentally contacted me several times tonight) than I do my close friend. What he says is true, we did live by the motto you never leave a man down, but I can tell you that when you went back in for that man, he was still continuing to fight for his life and everything he held dear and it didn't matter if the odds were stacked against him.

123Phoebe, he tried our version of the VA approach, they weren't willing to help. The advice they offered him was to go to a veterans pub and talk to the veterans there   Great advice for an alcoholic. Our equivalent of the VA has a more brutal approach, once you leave you are on your own unless it's for something nice. I guess they got tired of being sued by parents or ex-soldiers for being injured in war so anything medical or requiring help, they distance themselves to avoid taking responsibility too. I ran into the same issue when I came out and asked them for help, in the end I did mine privately at my own cost.

[Ripped Heart]

I think that might still fall into the rescuing mode.

When dealing with an addict, it isn't that simple. They will promise you the moon and not deliver and then you are put in a position to have to make some really tough decisions. It is okay to say, "Hey, this is too much for me. I can't deal with this."

I like GK's question about taking him home. Also, does he have anybody other that you that could help him? Other friends? Family? You mention that he has been sober for the last year. How did he do that? Did he have some kind of support? If so, do you know who/what it is and how to contact them?

I was also thinking that you might be able to contact your local United Way as they are a great source of information and usually know more about the resources available that some of the other people that I have talked to when trying to get help.

That's pretty much what I did a short time ago when he woke. Told him I'm taking him home tomorrow.

No, he has nobody else. He does have family but doesn't get on with them. I know that when he was drinking, his mother was going into every shop and asking the owners not to serve him, his brother too. I guess they tried and help came for him when he had nobody.

The angle I've tried to get across is that he isn't doing this for himself, he's doing it for his daughter who needs him to fight for her right now. I have a number to try tomorrow because I've tried tonight to track down which hospital and therapist he is under to report his relapse. Again, I'm trying to navigate through this without jumping in to rescue and I can sense an overlap in places. Tomorrow morning I can contact a dual support team that work with mental health and alcohol addiction. Again, the main hurdle is nobody really wants a call from me, they want a call from him.

If I have to cut him loose right now, in order for him to seek the help, that's what I have to do. I've told him tonight that I can't do this for him, all I can do is support him but the boundaries I've set down, he's just walked over today and I feel I've gone several steps back in my own healing from the end of my BPD r/s. The positive I take is that I know there is still a lot of work to do but I know I'm not in a position myself to be able to help him and I have to be careful of not slipping into rescuer mode.

[Grey Kitty]

Ripped, your friend's situation is tragic. No way around that.

I believe your assessment that you can't do anything for him now, and need to take him back home is the best you can do.

Even without rescuer tendencies, it would feel horrible to do that / watch him do that to himself. Sometimes the best thing you can do still is really hard.

I'd say that your rescuer tendencies were just tested, and I think you are passing the test, doing things in a much better way. Your attitude in this topic sounds really good.  

[tjay933]

If I have to cut him loose right now, in order for him to seek the help, that's what I have to do. I've told him tonight that I can't do this for him, all I can do is support him but the boundaries I've set down, he's just walked over today and I feel I've gone several steps back in my own healing from the end of my BPD r/s. The positive I take is that I know there is still a lot of work to do but I know I'm not in a position myself to be able to help him and I have to be careful of not slipping into rescuer mode.

I don't know where you are in recovering but it seems to me that you haven't taken any steps back. it may feel that way but, being able to see where you are can be in my opinion a step forward. knowing your limits can be in my opinion a step forward especially for a confirmed rescuer. being able to say "I have limits and I know this is one of them" is a good thing. just my opinion. enforcing a boundary that someone broke is a step forward. it isn't your fault that he broke it and you are enforcing that boundary-these are good things. just my opinion.

[Ripped Heart]

Ripped, your friend's situation is tragic. No way around that.

I believe your assessment that you can't do anything for him now, and need to take him back home is the best you can do.

Even without rescuer tendencies, it would feel horrible to do that / watch him do that to himself. Sometimes the best thing you can do still is really hard.

I'd say that your rescuer tendencies were just tested, and I think you are passing the test, doing things in a much better way. Your attitude in this topic sounds really good.  

Thanks Grey Kitty, this last day and tonight especially has opened my eyes to how much I'm the issue, not just with this situation but with my last 2 relationships especially.

The difference with my friend is that I can tell him to leave and I can be brutally honest with him too. There is no walking on egg shells in that regard but it does hurt to do that because it's watching him destroy himself. I was there in Bosnia the day the orders were issued that pretty much destroyed his life. Looking at my friend, it's hard to imagine that could very much have been me. I left the military not because of what happened but because my eldest daughter was on the way and I still maintain she saved me life, had it not been for her on the way I could be the one laid there drowning in drink right now.

Here's what today has taught me.

My friends come to me when in trouble because they see what I have and what I've built up from being rock bottom and believe I have a quick fix to their issues, not all friends as the majority are emotionally healthy but I tend to attract people in trouble (1 marriage to exN/BPDw and a r/s with dBPDgf)

I make them aware not to be under any illusion, it's not been a bed of roses for me either (again 1 exN/BPDw and a BPDgf) but instead of seeing that I'm just someone else who has difficulties like everyone else, they view me as someone who has come through the other side and want to know the secret of that success. The truth is, I struggle every day, I have things that make life even more complex for me (Aspergers) so I'm no better or worse off than most. All I do is remind myself of why I get up in the morning and set myself clear goals. Life doesn't always work out the way I intend either, hence being here on this site but I try and make the most of what I have for as long as I have it.

I try my best to help everyone so they don't have to suffer or experience the things I have such as being able to relate to my friend just wanting a relationship with his daughter. When contact with my girls was taken away, my life was over, I didn't want to be here anymore but having slept on it, the desire and fight came with it. Instead of fighting fire with fire, I became the best person I could possibly be so my ex couldn't find any excuse for me not to see my children. Her actions were out of spite and anger, something the court actually recognised. My friend can't grasp the concept of his situation being a contributing factor. His ex may very well be pwBPD too but as a parent, I would take exactly the same stance as her if my friend is unreliable because of his drinking. That should be incentive enough for him but he doesn't see it.

I do feel valued when I can help people, I take their failures personally too and that's been a dangerous game. What tends to happen is I fall into a hole, the more someone fails, the more effort I put in to pull them out otherwise I feel I've failed them. Also, I start to slip back into the child me and doing more and more to seek that approval that I never got from my parents. Which brings with it another problem when I am able to resolve friends issues because it means they keep coming back and there we have a cycle. I did the same thing in my marriage and last r/s too but have learned how to step back a little and now see things before they happen. I think that's why I'm angry with myself because I never saw the relapse with my friend coming until it was too late and where I should have taken a step back because the situation had changed, instead I honoured a promise and found myself with a very difficult and triggering day.

[Grey Kitty]

There is kindness and generosity underneath our rescuing tendencies. Honor that part of you--it is one of your true core values, and very important to you. If you shut that down or lose that, it would make you less than you are. 

The learning is the difference between support and enabling. Honestly, in your shoes, I probably would have taken the friend in for a night, not expecting him to pull that sort of stunt... .or at least hoping he wouldn't... .and not gotten him out any sooner. You saw the warning signs with all the bottles at his place... .still it is worth giving a friend in need a second, third, or fourth chance if you can.

I ran into a much smaller side of doing better on "rescuing" I've got an old friend I mostly know through facebook. I don't know if she is mentally ill... .BPD or otherwise... .but I do see her attract and share more drama in her life than a healthy person would. I've been chatting with her the last few days... .and it ended with something like this:

Just want you to know that I adore you. Thank you for the friendship we have... .It's funny how you seem to pop into my life, solo, and trigger discussions that I need to have. You are a very good sounding board... .one of the best - because you come with no agenda. Unlike others that I've known longer.

I treasure you. ... .strong and sound friendship. I want to make sure you understand the value I place in you - in my life.

So, when you question me or my posts... .I listen.

There is hope that these rescuing urges can be re-directed into positive things! Or at least having influence in a positive direction.

[Ripped Heart]

Grey Kitty, that message you got really resonates with me because it's somewhat similar to ones I sometimes get from friends. I tend to have at least 3 categories of friends, those I grew up with or served with that have their own lives but remember birthdays and Christmas, usually containing a letter to see how things are going and we just remember the important days. Then there are friends who are a constant in my life, good times and bad times for all of us where we support each other through both good and we usually get together a couple of times a month and go out for meals or a drink somewhere and if someone is having trouble, we club together, buy a card and a gift to remind them they aren't alone. Finally, there are the friends who only appear in a crisis (very similar to pwBPD) and only appear when in need of rescue. My friend who stayed fluctuates between the 1st and 3rd group as he is sometimes around when things are good too.

The friends that I sometimes get similar messages from are often in the 3rd group too. As soon as the crisis is over, they disappear and get on with their own lives. Not that I mind that much because it means I'm left to do my own things too and I can get overwhelmed when there is too much going on. When I say disappear, it's usually after a message like the one you received so it also leaves me in doubt because at least they are thankful and in a sense appreciative where exBPDgf would just disappear.

So my friend woke up this morning, drank another bottle for breakfast, asked if I had any alcohol in my house (which I don't) and then asked me to lend him some money so he could go buy some. It was at that point, I snapped. Didn't get angry with him but told him I wasn't going to give him any money, told him a few home truths about his situation right now and that only he can get himself out of it. I explained that as long as he is sat feeling sorry for himself, there is nothing I can do to help. Talked about how this is a house for me and my children and that he is aware that my step-father took his own life battling with alcohol and the repercussions it had on my children as a result.

He talked about how he was feeling right now, that everything is hopeless and that he's lost everything. Was able to get through to him using SET, how alcohol is a depressant and can make you feel that way, that it's ok to relapse and that it's not a failure just a break from the hard work he has put in already. About the texts he has from his daughter and how she still looks up to him so he has to be the person he wants her to look up to. He talked about his FOO and I reminded him how we remember those experiences from when we were young, that his daughter is at that age now where she will remember these things and that while ever she is reaching out to him, he hasn't lost everything. I did make it perfectly clear that while he is trying to find the answers in the bottom of a bottle, he is giving his FOO and his ex justification to keep him away and the longer he remains that way, he is in jeopardy of losing everything. I told him that when happens, he can't place the blame on his ex keeping his daughter away, the only person that is responsible for all of that is himself.

I finished by telling him that the reason he had to leave was partly because it was triggering me and also the longer he stayed here behaving the way he does, it's not going to get better or any easier. I didn't want the responsibility of the blame if he chose to continue on the path he is and did lose everything. For him to turn around and say I didn't do enough to help him and that it's my fault rather than take responsibility for his own actions. So me taking him home wasn't abandoning him or turning my back on him, that he has my support 100% but as to how much I can physically support him depends on which path he decides to walk down.

I didn't tell him what he wanted to hear, I told him what he needed to hear and did it with all the care in the world. One statement I made to him was that right now to his daughter, he is priceless but to him his daughter is the cost of a bottle of wine and only he can change that around. We talked about setting goals and then breaking it down into manageable chunks, how the only person he has to prove himself to now is himself. He fears the "I told you so" from his mother if he seeks further help and I explained that the best way to deal with that is to say "I know, and I'm doing something about it" how it catches someone who is wanting confrontation and has to be right 100% of the time completely off guard when you drop your ego and tell them they are right because there is no comeback to that. Everything he does from here on out is for him and his daughter. Was quite the emotional talk, he broke down, I broke down and after everything, he seemed to have his fight back and I took him back in a far more positive mood. Though did keep stressing the importance of breaking down goals into small chunks that are easily achievable because I know that if he aims too high right now and hits a stumbling block, he's back to where he started. Gave him the numbers for everything I researched last night, one of which he has gone through, so we talked about how if he reached out and told them he's relapsed, there will be more of a sense of urgency as he isn't the one and only person to have done that. He called them before he left, so he's now back in the hands of professionals.

What a day it's been 

[Rifka]

Ripped heart, hugs to you my friend. This is a very emotional place you are in. You can not save this person, it is his responsibility to want to fix himself. It seems he has totally disrespected all of your boundries and run with this abuse to you.

Your Rescuer cape might need to be thrown to the ground for this and real tough love put into place.

I agree this man needs to be taken out of your house, he is a mess that is not your responsibility! He is destroying your place and making you feel exactly how it did when the BPD disregulates and we feel helpless and try to fix.

AA is free! This man should be driven to a meeting and if he refuses, send him home in a cab. You have your own stuff going on, of course this triggered you. It's horrible and disrespectful in the worst way. This is a prime example of People who take our kindness for weakness.

Again you can not save him! I have been with a compulsive gambler! They will drag you down to the curb if you allow it!

Maybe limited n/c with great boundries on your part would be better. This man needs to leave your home! This is very unhealthy. If you are not an expert in dealing with the recovery of alcoholics, you need to accept you are not skilled to help him. Again he does not sound ready to help himself. Don't let him drag you down further. Pack away all alcohol and tell him that his private party is over. Maybe offer him to take him to if he would like, if not he must leave your place because he is being disrespectful. Honesty to him and yourself.

Just my opinion.

Rifka



Sorry just hit modify! I didn't see your last post! Seems you are back on track!

Just like with everything else, we can only be abused or taken advantage of if we allow it to happen!

Cheers to you!

You are a good friend, your friend is just not healthy enough to be a good friend back.

[tjay933]

great job ripped! we can learn from you how to deal better ourselves. now go down a chocolate bar or two, you deserve it. 

[Panda39]

Ripped Heart,

Tough story to read.  I was married to an alcoholic for 19 years.  I was co-dependent and I enabled.  I finally had enough and finally believed enough in myself to leave.  Since coming here (my SO has an uBPDxw) I began to see a pattern with all of my serious romantic relationships of being... .a rescuer... .a nurturer... .a caregiver... .CODEPENDENT!

I think you handled your friend beautifully.  You responded when he asked for help, you set boundaries around your home and what you would and could do for him, you talked with him honestly, you told him this was his to fix/to work on, you listened, you sent him back home better than you found him and because you made the healthy choice to not enable him. You are a good friend and have become a wise one too!  Nice job. 

I've just started reading "Codependent No More" by: Melody Beattie it might be something you might want to check out.