Are they capable of having REAL platonic friendships?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am curious about this:

We all know that it is one of the fundamentals of BPD that sufferers are generally unable to participate in healthy relationships. But is it also the case that they are unable to survive even intimate platonic relationships as well? Can they have TRUE friends?

I know that mine had MAYBE 4 girlfriends of which she was speaking with but one (who she really considered a non-friend) when I first met her and arguably another. The other two, on hindsight, were painted black and she was no longer speaking with them but painted them white (and then black again) later on. She really had no real friends at all.

Did any of yours have a true friend?

[JRT]

I am curious about this:

We all know that it is one of the fundamentals of BPD that sufferers are generally unable to participate in healthy relationships. But is it also the case that they are unable to survive even intimate platonic relationships as well? Can they have TRUE friends?

I know that mine had MAYBE 4 girlfriends of which she was speaking with but one (who she really considered a non-friend) when I first met her and arguably another. The other two, on hindsight, were painted black and she was no longer speaking with them but painted them white (and then black again) later on. She really had no real friends at all.

Did any of yours have a true friend?

[ShadowIntheNight]

I am curious about this:

We all know that it is one of the fundamentals of BPD that sufferers are generally unable to participate in healthy relationships. But is it also the case that they are unable to survive even intimate platonic relationships as well? Can they have TRUE friends?

I know that mine had MAYBE 4 girlfriends of which she was speaking with but one (who she really considered a non-friend) when I first met her and arguably another. The other two, on hindsight, were painted black and she was no longer speaking with them but painted them white (and then black again) later on. She really had no real friends at all.

Did any of yours have a true friend?

In a word, yes, me. Other people she referred to as her girlfriends were actually women who she spoke to about superficial things. They knew her as a friend, but I assure you they have no idea who she really is. Those women were rarely painted black. But she didn't have deep feelings toward them either.

Later in our relationship Every 6 to 8 months someone would show up who she had never spoken of before, someone she had "just met" and  they became her new "BFF," and quickly I might add. Initially I got jealous. But over time I saw that these "friendships" burned out quickly. At the time I had never heard of BPD. But in hindsight it's clear she was cycling thru the idealization, devaluing, and discard phases.

Depending on how attached she was and how much she perceived their infraction/s toward her to be determined if they remained even in her life. But once they came back in, it's as if she kept them at arms length but threw them breadcrumbs which stroked her ego. I know of one young woman she was particularly cruel toward after she discarded her. Well, and me too... .

[billypilgrim]

If they are BPD, I don't see how it's possible.  BPD is a disorder that affects interpersonal relationships so no one that seeks out any semblance of a relationship with them is spared.  Sure, their partners get the brunt of the BPD behavior but those friends that are close enough to them also get a glimpse of what friendship is like with them.

In my 6 years with my ex, my ex had 4 "best friends."  And this is not including me, whom she claimed was her best friend, or her mom, whom she introduced to me as her best friend.  So that's 6 in 6 years.  Not very stable.  Especially when you throw in that she would go months/years without talking to some of her former "best friends."  Flip things around to me and I've had the same best group of guy friends since college.  No interruptions in communication.  Steady, fulfilling friendships.  

[ShadowIntheNight]

If they are BPD, I don't see how it's possible.  BPD is a disorder that affects interpersonal relationships so no one that seeks out any semblance of a relationship with them is spared.  Sure, their partners get the brunt of the BPD behavior but those friends that are close enough to them also get a glimpse of what friendship is like with them.

In my 6 years with my ex, my ex had 4 "best friends."  And this is not including me, whom she claimed was her best friend, or her mom, whom she introduced to me as her best friend.  So that's 6 in 6 years.  Not very stable.  Especially when you throw in that she would go months/years without talking to some of her former "best friends."  Flip things around to me and I've had the same best group of guy friends since college.  No interruptions in communication.  Steady, fulfilling friendships.  

I agree about the former best friends. She would tell me about them, but when we got together she hadn't spoken to some of them in years. What I did discover about her bffs from the past was that she would call them under the guise of catching up and then ask for a favor. I honestly don't think any of them were what you or I would refer to as deep personal friends but rather friends she had spent some time with and was close to, but not deeply at least on her part.

When we had been together 5 yrs she told me she had never spoken to a single person in her life everyday for 5 years running, and she was amazed that she had done it. She meant including her former husband who she had been married to for 10 years. Funny the implications of that hits me right now and not 5 years ago when she first said it! Btw my ex and I are female & were in a 9.5 yr relationship.

[Maternus]

Did any of yours have a true friend?

Not really. My exgf had some old female friends she knew from her childhood, but only had contact with them once or twice in a year. She had some people she called friends, but she only called them when she needed someone to drive her somewhere (she had no car).

[Reecer1588]

Hard to tell with mine. She DOES have 1 friend from childhood, WHO LIVES IN MONTANTA, and this friendship during the course of our relationship at times did get very strained. My ex never discarded her entirely, but she definitely got close to doing so while we were together.

Now, over a month out and having almost no idea what my ex is doing (I know what I'm doing though... .:'( ), she MIGHT have some new friends from the equine team and associated equine associations at her college, but these girls seem pretty weird themselves.

True friend? My final answer : Yeah probably her only ones ever were me and one of her previous boyfriends. Maybe a girl who lives in montana, maybe a girl at her college now. Hard to tell.

It must be sad for her, sometimes I just feel pity for her. It's all kind of, pathetic honestly. Not being able to identify any real friends, throwing out the people who really did care about you, the disaster that is her parent's divorce.

[Flameheart]

I think they are to a certain extent, but as someone said, they tend to focus on more superficial or work-related things in the friendship, and I doubt any of those friends knows the real person. My BPDex had a lot of friends, and seemed to look view things from a quantity over quality perspective. She had a lot of guy friends that she'd flirt with at times when she felt she wasn't getting attention from her ex-boyfriend (now current boyfriend again), and I think she looked at me in that way initially before she started looking at me as someone more. As far as girl friends, I think she was able to have true platonic friendships with them, but again, she valued quantity over quality here. She didn't really have anyone she could talk to about her problems outside of myself (initially), and she kept everything bottled up to maintain her supposed stability.

[HappyNihilist]

In the case of my exBPDbf... .no to platonic friendships with females. I don't think he's even capable of having a true platonic friendship with a female - he even engaged in sex acts with lesbian friends.

He has a couple of male friends from childhood/teenagehood - they don't stay in constant contact, but check in on each other every now and then, and seem to support each other when they need it. He had a few other male friends, mostly through work, but I got the impression that he sort of cycles through most friends. He doesn't paint them black or fight with them - he just moves on to a new stage in his life and disengages.

I think it's hard for borderlines to sustain any healthy close relationships, whether with family, friends, or partners. A lot of people, not just borderlines, have difficulty with it - but the nature of the disorder impairs a lot of interpersonal relationship skills.

There's a lot of research and studies on how BPD affects interpersonal relations - not just within the context of an intimate relationship.

From "The Rupture and Repair of Cooperation in Borderline Personality Disorder" by Brooks King-Casas, et al (full article)--

"To sustain or repair cooperation during a social exchange, adaptive creatures must understand social gestures and the consequences when shared expectations about fair exchange are violated by accident or intent. [... .] Behaviorally, individuals with BPD showed a profound incapacity to maintain cooperation, and were impaired in their ability to repair broken cooperation [by] coaxing."

"Neural and behavioral data suggest that norms used in perception of social gestures are pathologically perturbed or missing altogether among individuals with BPD."

"BPD subjects send signals that break cooperation. [... .] Once ruptured, they show substantially diminished rates of coaxing to repair the bond."

"Individuals with BPD expressed significantly lower levels of self-reported trust."

"The incapacity of individuals with BPD to recognize norm violations and to respond to signal trustworthiness to their partner can result in an inability of both individuals to effectively model the intentions of one another."

Another excellent article that explores this is "Mechanisms of Disturbed Emotion Processing and Social Interaction in Borderline Personality Disorder," by Christian Schmahl, et al (full article). In one section, the authors discuss the results of a study that had borderlines interacting in inclusive, exclusive, and neutral social situations--

"The experience of social exclusion evoked especially intense negative emotions such as contempt, resentment, and anger, which were focused on others. [... .] The awareness of social exclusion and the resulting emotional reactions in BPD patients differ from those of healthy individuals. [This is] true not only during the experience of social rejection but also during the inclusion and neutral situations."

The authors go on to discuss other research on the subject--

"Empirical findings point to a social cognitive bias. [... .] BPD patients have an interpretational bias which leads them to assume others are hostile and angry."

"From an interpersonal perspective, the most robust findings are dysfunctional interpretation of social cues, hyper-mentalization, problems with coaxing, and hypersensitivity to social rejection and threat. Each of these dysfunctional social cognitions is closely linked to the emotional system, resulting in intermittent experiences of intense fear of abandonment, social rejection, and a strong desire for unconditional love."

Small wonder, then, that borderlines have difficulty with relationships. Just interacting socially is hard for them.

[Reecer1588]

I think they are to a certain extent, but as someone said, they tend to focus on more superficial or work-related things in the friendship, and I doubt any of those friends knows the real person. My BPDex had a lot of friends, and seemed to look view things from a quantity over quality perspective. She had a lot of guy friends that she'd flirt with at times when she felt she wasn't getting attention from her ex-boyfriend (now current boyfriend again), and I think she looked at me in that way initially before she started looking at me as someone more. As far as girl friends, I think she was able to have true platonic friendships with them, but again, she valued quantity over quality here. She didn't really have anyone she could talk to about her problems outside of myself (initially), and she kept everything bottled up to maintain her supposed stability.

Yeah I want to second this notion. My ex might have ONE person (minus her mother) to talk to about her personal issues. Her new friends from college, those interested in animal science and horses like her, would most likely (almost certainly) not be an outlet for her personal affairs.

[Tim300]

But is it also the case that they are unable to survive even intimate platonic relationships as well? Can they have TRUE friends?

From what I saw with my ex, I would say No.  They cannot have true friends, who live nearby, and interact with them on any consistent basis over a long stretch of time.  This is a good point to keep in mind because it might be one of the best red flags to look for in connecting with a new person (if the problem isn't BPD it might be another troublesome issue causing this).

[Sofie]

No, not really. All of my ex's "friends" were people who were mentally ill or addicts - all of them someone she could control and were submissive to her in some way. If they didn't act the way she wanted them to, they would get painted black and then be painted white again after a while. Rinse and repeat. None of them know the "real" her, and I always thought that she secretly despised them, but kept them around as she always needed to have an audience at hand.

[BorisAcusio]

No, not really. All of my ex's "friends" were people who were mentally ill or addicts - all of them someone she could control and were submissive to her in some way. If they didn't act the way she wanted them to, they would get painted black and then be painted white again after a while. Rinse and repeat. None of them know the "real" her, and I always thought that she secretly despised them, but kept them around as she always needed to have an audience at hand.

That pretty much sums up my experience. One diagnosed OCD friend she treated like a rug, the other was more of a long time acquaintance not receptive to the abuse so they've met 1-2 times a year when she had those short periods of eleveted mood(=new shiny objects under her radar).

According to the clinical literature, every close interpersonal relationships will eventually trigger the same fears and defense mechanisms. At the end of the day, it depends on how you define friendship and what are you willing to tolerate.

[JRT]

"Empirical findings point to a social cognitive bias. [... .] BPD patients have an interpretational bias which leads them to assume others are hostile and angry."[/quote]
This is interesting new territory... .not surprising, however. Makes sense for certain and explains some things.

[4Years5Months]

My ex claimed to have many friends as a child, but due to moving multiple times due to her parents' divorce, by high school she essentially had none.  When we started dating, she was 19 and the majority of her "friends" were girls from a band's message board that she had talked to long enough on there to "know" in real life.  I put those in quotes because of the say, 8 women, only ONE she had actually met in person.  They were all around the world.  However, they were all friends on Facebook, and until she told me all of this, I figured they were all high school friends or something.  At the time, it made me more comfortable with her (I don't want to date a girl with 600 friends that goes out every night) but looking back on it, it was kind of weird that her "best friends" that knew all of her secrets and history were people she had never met.

She would occasionally get invited out by co-workers, and she would treat these times as big deals.  She would regularly talk about wanting friends.  She would hang out CONSTANTLY with them for a little while, then it would settle off.  When she would quit the job, the friendships would essentially end in real life, but she kept them on Facebook.

She has broken up with me six times, and with almost all of the breakups, she would immediately start going out with whomever she could find.  Co-workers she would complain about (in negative detail) she would suddenly think were great and lots of fun.  She admitted more than once they were a "distraction" from our breakup.  And when we would get back together, they would become less important, and almost non-existent.

Three times, she has broken up with me and quickly become infatuated with a male co-worker.  The first time it was strictly on her end, he never knew.  The second time it was a guy who followed her around college like a puppy dog, and then applied at her job and continued to follow her around like a puppy dog.  The third time, from what I have been told by mutual friends, is going on right now, with a guy who she told me for months was so dumb she nicknamed him "Forrest Gump."  But when the time came, all of those complaints evaporated.

She has few female friends.  The one girl she constantly talks to is one of those message board friends, and she has never met her.  We went to New York in December (where the girl lives) and they had made plans to hang out, but it didn't happen.  My ex blamed conflicting schedules, but all one of them had to do was take the subway uptown.  She didn't.  I wasn't surprised.  It's like she wants to keep her at a distance.

She will meet girls she works with, hang out a couple of times, and would tell me she "really wants to be friends" with one (or more) of them.  Like they really made a connection.  But within months, she barely talks about them anymore.

When she was with me, I was a loving, caring boyfriend.  She is a quiet/waif BPDer, so it was like dating Debbie Downer rather than a vengeful person.  And she would have "friends" she would talk to, but she wouldn't hang out with them.  I think it was because I was filling her needs.  But I could tell when a push-away phase was coming, because she would make more and more efforts to go out with people.  And what would usually happen is she would become infatuated one of the guys (always some kind of loser with no ambition) and come up with some reason why we couldn't be together.  Not that she didn't want to be with me - she COULDN'T be with me.

That was a big issue - she couldn't keep platonic friendships with non-repulsive men.  If a guy was her "type" it was only a matter of time before she developed a crush on him, even if at the outset she would tell me not to worry.  "Forrest Gump" is the current guy she is doing this with.  Has anyone had a female BPDer who just couldn't stay platonic with guys, even if she seemed to be happy with you?

[apollotech]

My ex claimed to have many friends as a child, but due to moving multiple times due to her parents' divorce, by high school she essentially had none.  When we started dating, she was 19 and the majority of her "friends" were girls from a band's message board that she had talked to long enough on there to "know" in real life.  I put those in quotes because of the say, 8 women, only ONE she had actually met in person.  They were all around the world.  However, they were all friends on Facebook, and until she told me all of this, I figured they were all high school friends or something.  At the time, it made me more comfortable with her (I don't want to date a girl with 600 friends that goes out every night) but looking back on it, it was kind of weird that her "best friends" that knew all of her secrets and history were people she had never met.

She would occasionally get invited out by co-workers, and she would treat these times as big deals.  She would regularly talk about wanting friends.  She would hang out CONSTANTLY with them for a little while, then it would settle off.  When she would quit the job, the friendships would essentially end in real life, but she kept them on Facebook.

She has broken up with me six times, and with almost all of the breakups, she would immediately start going out with whomever she could find.  Co-workers she would complain about (in negative detail) she would suddenly think were great and lots of fun.  She admitted more than once they were a "distraction" from our breakup.  And when we would get back together, they would become less important, and almost non-existent.

Three times, she has broken up with me and quickly become infatuated with a male co-worker.  The first time it was strictly on her end, he never knew.  The second time it was a guy who followed her around college like a puppy dog, and then applied at her job and continued to follow her around like a puppy dog.  The third time, from what I have been told by mutual friends, is going on right now, with a guy who she told me for months was so dumb she nicknamed him "Forrest Gump."  But when the time came, all of those complaints evaporated.

She has few female friends.  The one girl she constantly talks to is one of those message board friends, and she has never met her.  We went to New York in December (where the girl lives) and they had made plans to hang out, but it didn't happen.  My ex blamed conflicting schedules, but all one of them had to do was take the subway uptown.  She didn't.  I wasn't surprised.  It's like she wants to keep her at a distance.

She will meet girls she works with, hang out a couple of times, and would tell me she "really wants to be friends" with one (or more) of them.  Like they really made a connection.  But within months, she barely talks about them anymore.

When she was with me, I was a loving, caring boyfriend.  She is a quiet/waif BPDer, so it was like dating Debbie Downer rather than a vengeful person.  And she would have "friends" she would talk to, but she wouldn't hang out with them.  I think it was because I was filling her needs.  But I could tell when a push-away phase was coming, because she would make more and more efforts to go out with people.  And what would usually happen is she would become infatuated one of the guys (always some kind of loser with no ambition) and come up with some reason why we couldn't be together.  Not that she didn't want to be with me - she COULDN'T be with me.

That was a big issue - she couldn't keep platonic friendships with non-repulsive men.  If a guy was her "type" it was only a matter of time before she developed a crush on him, even if at the outset she would tell me not to worry.  "Forrest Gump" is the current guy she is doing this with.  Has anyone had a female BPDer who just couldn't stay platonic with guys, even if she seemed to be happy with you?

4Years5Months,

My BPDexgf was like a kid in a candy store with men. I said "kid" for a reason. With her it was a very childish infatuation with the new Mr. Shiny, then the next new Mr. Shiny, etc. She couldn't be platonic with a man. When I finally saw it, I was disgusted. My BPDexgf had very, very little impulse control and far too many enablers telling her that her behavior was just fine. As you stated above, today Mr. Shiny could be a vile creature, tomorrow she could be in love with him. Juvenile emotional maturity at best. And as soon as the "new" wore off of the new Mr. Shiny he was promptly discarded. I don't think that a pwBPD has any inkling of what a true relationship is or entails... .romantic, friendship, or any other kind. They just don't have the tools for a true, deep, lasting relationship.

[4Years5Months]

My BPDexgf was like a kid in a candy store with men. I said "kid" for a reason. With her it was a very childish infatuation with the new Mr. Shiny, then the next new Mr. Shiny, etc. She couldn't be platonic with a man. When I finally saw it, I was disgusted. My BPDexgf had very, very little impulse control and far too many enablers telling her that her behavior was just fine. As you stated above, today Mr. Shiny could be a vile creature, tomorrow she could be in love with him. Juvenile emotional maturity at best. And as soon as the "new" wore off of the new Mr. Shiny he was promptly discarded. I don't think that a pwBPD has any inkling of what a true relationship is or entails... .romantic, friendship, or any other kind. They just don't have the tools for a true, deep, lasting relationship.

The current "Mr. Shiny" (as you say) for my ex is the security guard at her work.  This is a guy she would constantly put down to me ("He's so dumb we call him Forrest Gump" but his job is basically to stand around all day, so he talks to her plenty.  They have the same circle of co-worker friends that my ex just started hanging out with during her latest push away phase (and eventual breakup) with me.  Of course all of those people are just going to encourage her to be happy, and would be excited that it's someone they know, too.  Casual friends in general don't know or care enough, so their "advice" is just superficial enabling, general comments that don't rock the boat.  Plus I'm sure it makes for interesting gossip/conversation.  Her mother (twice divorced, both times due to her infidelity) exhibits the same kind of behavior/BPD traits as well, having recycled HER boyfriend at least 30 times since I've known my ex.  And each time she pushes him away, she's out with "friends" the next night, and eventually finds another Mr. Shiny.  My ex also refuses to talk to her father (8 years and counting) so if you think she has a strong parental (or other) figure who could tell her to stop doing this behavior, think again.

Last summer, she broke up with me (same reason for this time - she wants to move to NYC and I have a daughter and can't just go with her, so we "can't be together" and the same scenario as the above paragraph happened, just with another co-worker, this time a part time college aged guy who still lived with his parents, who paid all of his bills.  It started platonic as co-workers, then she cut me off and started hanging out with work people, and he was one of them.  Next thing you know, they take a weekend trip to another state where they sleep together.  Shortly afterward, my ex reached out to me and begged me to take her back, saying it was all a terrible mistake with him, that she has issues seeing men platonically, and promised to work on things.  Her exact quote to me was "I can't trust myself to remain platonic with male friends, so I won't have any.  I can't get close to men."  She obviously didn't follow that, as she's back in the same position just 3-4 months later.  She posted on Facebook yesterday that she is taking a "staycation" in our city this weekend - hotel room downtown and spending time with (I can only assume) current Mr. Shiny.  By the way, we took a trip to NYC in December, so it's like she's oddly trying to recreate that with this "staycation."

It's like if a guy talks to her enough, that's all it takes.  I'm bothered by the fact that each guy is a loser with little ambition, especially this current guy, who she would regularly make fun of for being so dumb.  She can't be with me because she wants to move away, but THIS guy, a security guard that she has known for six months is a better option?

[GrowThroughIt]

Hey, great thread.

In my opinion, pwN/BPD can not form any REAL bonds in their 'friendships'.

My ex had zero friends other than the ones in her University. Those 'friendships' however were merely dependant. One friend in particular I thought she was close with, she would only call up when lonely or upset about her ex. And she would talk about her as well, and be very judgemental! Another 'friend' of hers she was similar in that she only messaged her when lonely or upset. She started to reconnect with 'friends' via FB after she broke up with her ex.

I remember there was a time whe she realised how close me and my friends were, she was really shocked! She was genuinely staggered and said "You guys are so close. You actually like each others friendship! You guys are like family."

I can not believe I was with someone so pathetic! Urgh! And I can't believe I still even think about her! Well, I kind of can, the reopening of childhood wounds and all that!

[hurting300]

Mine just had men.

[nowwhatz]

From my experience I am not aware that my exgf has any friends.  Over 4 years of on and off as well as about 24 months cumulative continuous r/s I am aware of only one "friend"... .me!

I believe there has to be some give and take, willingness to help and care... .as well as patience... .tolerance and forgiveness to maintain friendships.  

There was a friend of the ex's who visited one time when my exgf lived with me the first time. That friend and her husband seemed to be really nice warm friendly people. It is my understanding that that friend started going through a difficult period over the last year or so.  The exgf basically dropped her like a hot potato.  Painted her black... .saying oh she is depressed now and I can't listen to her problems.   Sure it was ok for her friend to listen to her problems but now that the friend has problem she is no longer useful.

Her best childhood friend my exgf introduced to her cousin and they eventually married and have a seemingly happy family. My exgf hates her... .painted her black and they have nothing to do with each other and makes for an awkward situation for the cousin.

My exgf is beautiful and intelligent. Men are instantly attracted to her and if it were not for the BPD no doubt she could have been hugely successfull in a lot of diffferent endeavors.

Sure... .she can get a guy almost whenever she wants... .without much more to give than a pretty face, good sex and short term BPD related "benefits" what else is there?

Very sad but without anything more to give to a friend, lover or partner how can there ever be a lasting friendship with anyone?

Some family members tolerate or enable her but they do it from a 300 mile distance in another country.   Sometimes it seemed they were so grateful to me for "taking care of her"... .one of my friends used to tell me sure they are greatful so they don't have to take care of here.

Too bad the exgf doesn't have a strong female friend... .not sure how that could ever happen.

[misty_red]

My exBPDgf had friends as long as they were useful to her. I don't want to call her exploitative, I don't think she was conscious about that. But it was very obvious to me. There were the same cycles she had going on with me. First they were great, then there was something impertinent they did and she no longer wanted to hang around with them because she hated them. In the end she had no friends left but me.

There were some people she know from the time she was still studying, but she only hang out with them to get drunk. So no, no real friends.

[BorisAcusio]

From my experience I am not aware that my exgf has any friends.  Over 4 years of on and off as well as about 24 months cumulative continuous r/s I am aware of only one "friend"... .me!

I believe there has to be some give and take, willingness to help and care... .as well as patience... .tolerance and forgiveness to maintain friendships.  

There was a friend of the ex's who visited one time when my exgf lived with me the first time. That friend and her husband seemed to be really nice warm friendly people. It is my understanding that that friend started going through a difficult period over the last year or so.  The exgf basically dropped her like a hot potato.  Painted her black... .saying oh she is depressed now and I can't listen to her problems.   Sure it was ok for her friend to listen to her problems but now that the friend has problem she is no longer useful.

Her best childhood friend my exgf introduced to her cousin and they eventually married and have a seemingly happy family. My exgf hates her... .painted her black and they have nothing to do with each other and makes for an awkward situation for the cousin.

My exgf is beautiful and intelligent. Men are instantly attracted to her and if it were not for the BPD no doubt she could have been hugely successfull in a lot of diffferent endeavors.

Sure... .she can get a guy almost whenever she wants... .without much more to give than a pretty face, good sex and short term BPD related "benefits" what else is there?

Very sad but without anything more to give to a friend, lover or partner how can there ever be a lasting friendship with anyone?

Some family members tolerate or enable her but they do it from a 300 mile distance in another country.   Sometimes it seemed they were so grateful to me for "taking care of her"... .one of my friends used to tell me sure they are greatful so they don't have to take care of here.

Too bad the exgf doesn't have a strong female friend... .not sure how that could ever happen.

^ That happened with my ex when her friend gone through a head surgery. She reached out for support but my ex didn't even care to visit her in the nearby hospital, she wrote a short facebook message instead.

[nowwhatz]

From my experience I am not aware that my exgf has any friends.  Over 4 years of on and off as well as about 24 months cumulative continuous r/s I am aware of only one "friend"... .me!

I believe there has to be some give and take, willingness to help and care... .as well as patience... .tolerance and forgiveness to maintain friendships.  

There was a friend of the ex's who visited one time when my exgf lived with me the first time. That friend and her husband seemed to be really nice warm friendly people. It is my understanding that that friend started going through a difficult period over the last year or so.  The exgf basically dropped her like a hot potato.  Painted her black... .saying oh she is depressed now and I can't listen to her problems.   Sure it was ok for her friend to listen to her problems but now that the friend has problem she is no longer useful.[/i]

Her best childhood friend my exgf introduced to her cousin and they eventually married and have a seemingly happy family. My exgf hates her... .painted her black and they have nothing to do with each other and makes for an awkward situation for the cousin.

My exgf is beautiful and intelligent. Men are instantly attracted to her and if it were not for the BPD no doubt she could have been hugely successfull in a lot of diffferent endeavors.

Sure... .she can get a guy almost whenever she wants... .without much more to give than a pretty face, good sex and short term BPD related "benefits" what else is there?

Very sad but without anything more to give to a friend, lover or partner how can there ever be a lasting friendship with anyone?

Some family members tolerate or enable her but they do it from a 300 mile distance in another country.   Sometimes it seemed they were so grateful to me for "taking care of her"... .one of my friends used to tell me sure they are greatful so they don't have to take care of here.

Too bad the exgf doesn't have a strong female friend... .not sure how that could ever happen.

^ That happened with my ex when her friend gone through a brain surgery. She reached out for support but she didn't even care to visit her in the nearby hospital.

Wow.

One time I had a rough work day or was feeling depressed. Sat down next to my exgf and she started her speal "I don't want to live... .there is no hope for me... .etc"  I replied by saying I felt depressed too just having a bad day but it will get better.

She became really indignant and snapped "I don't want to hear about you being depressed when I am a person with a serious mental illness!"    Did not want to be in competition with my depression I suppose?

Kind of off the subject but maybe related... .my exgf is the only woman I have ever met who did not like small children. Could not tolerate to be around them.  I thought maybe because small children had emotional needs bigger than hers.

[apollotech]

To answer JRT's original question of did your pwBPD have any true friends, no. She had a staggering amount of close acquaintances which she called friends. She was involved in social functions and children functions (birthday parties, school and church activities, etc.) with her acquaintances.

One of the very big red flags that was waved before me in the relationship was her discarding her childhood friends over seemingly trivial circumstances, including her best childhood friend. That was a huge tell that this person cannot maintain a relationship.

HappyNihilist has an excellent post. A pwBPD just doesn't have the tools to maintain true, deep relationships. Because of their illness they've never been in a true relationship, so they cannot model one. At best they can imitate one. I know that with my BPDexgf, because of her actions, our relationship was kept in an infantile stage of development. Energies and actions were consumed in relationship repair rather than in relationship development. For every board that I nailed onto the house she tore three off. You can't build anything with that going on in a relationship.

[BorisAcusio]

From my experience I am not aware that my exgf has any friends.  Over 4 years of on and off as well as about 24 months cumulative continuous r/s I am aware of only one "friend"... .me!

I believe there has to be some give and take, willingness to help and care... .as well as patience... .tolerance and forgiveness to maintain friendships.  

There was a friend of the ex's who visited one time when my exgf lived with me the first time. That friend and her husband seemed to be really nice warm friendly people. It is my understanding that that friend started going through a difficult period over the last year or so.  The exgf basically dropped her like a hot potato.  Painted her black... .saying oh she is depressed now and I can't listen to her problems.   Sure it was ok for her friend to listen to her problems but now that the friend has problem she is no longer useful.[/i]

Her best childhood friend my exgf introduced to her cousin and they eventually married and have a seemingly happy family. My exgf hates her... .painted her black and they have nothing to do with each other and makes for an awkward situation for the cousin.

My exgf is beautiful and intelligent. Men are instantly attracted to her and if it were not for the BPD no doubt she could have been hugely successfull in a lot of diffferent endeavors.

Sure... .she can get a guy almost whenever she wants... .without much more to give than a pretty face, good sex and short term BPD related "benefits" what else is there?

Very sad but without anything more to give to a friend, lover or partner how can there ever be a lasting friendship with anyone?

Some family members tolerate or enable her but they do it from a 300 mile distance in another country.   Sometimes it seemed they were so grateful to me for "taking care of her"... .one of my friends used to tell me sure they are greatful so they don't have to take care of here.

Too bad the exgf doesn't have a strong female friend... .not sure how that could ever happen.

^ That happened with my ex when her friend gone through a brain surgery. She reached out for support but she didn't even care to visit her in the nearby hospital.

Wow.

One time I had a rough work day or was feeling depressed. Sat down next to my exgf and she started her speal "I don't want to live... .there is no hope for me... .etc"  I replied by saying I felt depressed too just having a bad day but it will get better.

She became really indignant and snapped "I don't want to hear about you being depressed when I am a person with a serious mental illness!"    :)id not want to be in competition with my depression I suppose?

Kind of off the subject but maybe related... .my exgf is the only woman I have ever met who did not like small children. Could not tolerate to be around them.  I thought maybe because small children had emotional needs bigger than hers.

Sounds too familiar.

These behaviours are closely related, stemming from the same underyling distorted thinking pattern. They are not able to comprehend the concept that other's have needs on their own, as they have an objectified view of them, merely an extension of themselves.

It's a recurring theme here that members experienced the fast demise of their relationship/friendship shortly after the pwBPD discovered that they have flaws and needs of their own. The painful relatization that the idealized, powerful object can not fulfill their core unmet needs.

A borderline named A.J Mahari wrote an interesting article about the background of push/pull behaviour, we may assume that the same dynamics applies to friendships as well. Accompanied by their "hostile interpretational bias", low frustration tolerance, oversensitivity, inability to take criticism; it's a disaster waiting to happen.  

 Upon realizing they couldn't meet my needs (and no one can meet the basic needs of another-I didn't know this then) there would be the anger of an infant left alone, terrified and screaming in a crib ... .hungry, thirsty and with skin hunger, longing to be touched and held... .and the push... .the "I don't care", the "f___ off" the "screw you"; all of which really are what the borderline is saying about their own relationship to self at that given moment, would follow. It was the pain of realizing that my needs couldn't be met by this person that (again I was not consciously aware of this then) would cause the push as I felt overwhelmed, annihilated and furious that I was being left alone with in the company of all of my own unmet needs. Instead of understanding that I had to meet my own needs and that I had to take personal responsibility for myself I (for years) continued to transfer this onto a significant other (as if they were a parent instead of a partner) When I told a partner or friend to "get lost" I was "losing myself" too.

Once again, thanks for sharing, HappyNihilist.

[Bumpsintheroad]

There were a few times in my r/s with exBPD wife when I thought it a bit strange that she didn't have any 'friends' other than my friends and me.  When we first met, she was new to the area, about 6 months, so I chalked it up to just being new. 

The only friend she would chat with occasionally was her brothers gf.  But they were always in conflict.  One day she be all giddy about something they were going to do and then a week later she was a biatch and never speaking to her again. 

When she finally decided to work, there would be a couple weeks of talk about a new co-worker friend.  Then nothing.  And she would qiut her job and blame it on her 'friend'.  Then a new job, a new friend, a bad day at work, then quit her job.  This happened on 3 or 4 occasions in just a few months. 

Then she did something that just shocked me.  She decided to become a 'Life Coach'.  She began recycling her friendships with the former co-workers and used them as Guinea Pigs in her quest to fix THEM.  She had no training and no experience.  Yet she believed it was her calling in life.  She had read hundreds of books by the likes of Depak Chopra, Earnest Holmes and other motivational and metaphysical and spiritual type authors.  After a few sessions with each 'client' she would surmise that they were totally screwed up or beyond help or that they just don't get it.  And viola, no more friendship/client.  And then it was my fault because I DIDN"T SUPPORT HER. 

Well it wasn't too long before the shopping sprees, affairs, pathalogical lying, black painting, silence and manipulating kicked into high gear.  I was in the proverbial tornado!  I believe that any friendships she now has, are conditional in nature.  Someone to use or abuse as she sees fit. 

I hate to think that she is inflicting this behavior on a replacement and acquaintances but there is nothing I can do.  Except to stay safe and sane myself.