Communication Skills Learning- Wish I knew these before.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Whether or not my ex really has BPD or not, I do understand now that while I dated her, I completely lacked the proper communication skills to communicate with a romantic partner. I lacked the communication skills to talk to a very emotional person, someone who acted out of immaturity, self-doubt, confusion, etc.

At the time, I grossly over estimated my ability to communicate with someone who leads their life through emotions. I just didn't understand how to, isn't everyone like me? Doesn't everyone view life in logic & reason, and has their feelings/emotions based on that? Well, truly I thought everyone was like me in this regard, but now I understand just how drastically wrong I was. I was lacking all the tools necessary to be a strong, validating, emotionally supportive partner in a relationship.

Because of this gross ordeal with my uBPDexgf, I have spent lots of time learning communication skills, the most important of which being SETUP (Sympathy, empathy, truth, understanding, perseverance) (Credit to: I hate you- Don't Leave me). I've learned how to validate someone's feelings, while not being a 'yes man' or always tolerating abusive/negative behavior. I understand now what an Invalidating statement looks like, too. I've learned that using "I" statements rather than putting pressure on someone else, is a good way to both: Tell someone how you're feeling (so as not to assume that they know), and get your point across without putting pressure on someone else.

My only regret now, is that my exgf has eliminated me from her life. I wish I knew all of these communication skills earlier, maybe they would have helped. Really, I know they would have. But I can't go back now, and she won't talk to me.

Have a great day all


~Reece

[Reecer1588]

Whether or not my ex really has BPD or not, I do understand now that while I dated her, I completely lacked the proper communication skills to communicate with a romantic partner. I lacked the communication skills to talk to a very emotional person, someone who acted out of immaturity, self-doubt, confusion, etc.

At the time, I grossly over estimated my ability to communicate with someone who leads their life through emotions. I just didn't understand how to, isn't everyone like me? Doesn't everyone view life in logic & reason, and has their feelings/emotions based on that? Well, truly I thought everyone was like me in this regard, but now I understand just how drastically wrong I was. I was lacking all the tools necessary to be a strong, validating, emotionally supportive partner in a relationship.

Because of this gross ordeal with my uBPDexgf, I have spent lots of time learning communication skills, the most important of which being SETUP (Sympathy, empathy, truth, understanding, perseverance) (Credit to: I hate you- Don't Leave me). I've learned how to validate someone's feelings, while not being a 'yes man' or always tolerating abusive/negative behavior. I understand now what an Invalidating statement looks like, too. I've learned that using "I" statements rather than putting pressure on someone else, is a good way to both: Tell someone how you're feeling (so as not to assume that they know), and get your point across without putting pressure on someone else.

My only regret now, is that my exgf has eliminated me from her life. I wish I knew all of these communication skills earlier, maybe they would have helped. Really, I know they would have. But I can't go back now, and she won't talk to me.

Have a great day all


~Reece

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi Reecer,

Sounds like you have been working hard at yourself, good on you!

My only regret now, is that my exgf has eliminated me from her life. I wish I knew all of these communication skills earlier, maybe they would have helped. Really, I know they would have. But I can't go back now, and she won't talk to me.

This week, I am having a more difficult time coping than previously.  I have even wondered would things be different if only... .

If only I knew how to communicate.

If only he didn't have a high conflict exwife.

If only... .  Etc.

I am not sure if this type of thinking helps me at all.

I am trying to wrap my head around RA. 

There is so much to learn!  I feel like I cannot learn and process it fast enough.  I feel like all of these tools, and this site came to me at the end and I have not had opportunity to exercise these tools in our relationship.  I am thinking that I still want to learn them and will apply them at my work.

However, RA may be the one tool for me to focus on ATM.

Quote from Psychology Today: "Radical acceptance is about accepting of life on life’s terms and not resisting what you cannot or choose not to change."

It is possible, very probable, that even with these tools, even if I had a PHD in these darn tools!  That the r/s STILL would desolve.  I just think maybe that is the way it was going to play out.  No matter what "could be," time for me to accept what it.  For now though, I will allow myself time to grieve my loss a bit more.  More acceptance will come in its time too.

[Reecer1588]

Hi Reecer,

Sounds like you have been working hard at yourself, good on you!

My only regret now, is that my exgf has eliminated me from her life. I wish I knew all of these communication skills earlier, maybe they would have helped. Really, I know they would have. But I can't go back now, and she won't talk to me.

This week, I am having a more difficult time coping than previously.  I have even wondered would things be different if only... .

If only I knew how to communicate.

If only he didn't have a high conflict exwife.

If only... .  Etc.

I appreciate your recognition of my efforts to improve myself. It means a lot to me, and makes me feel good about myself.

I too am having a 'rough time', I completely understand where you are coming from. I'm really even doubting whether my ex was BPD at all, I do know that she was verbally, and emotionally abusive, and that I should not have tolerated this. Really, it's when I stopped completely being a doormat that she spazzed out and did everything she did.

I hope you are doing well, Sunflower. If you want to talk or something, you're welcome to message me.

Have a good one,



~Reece

[Grey Kitty]

First of all... .those communication skills you learned... .they are absolutely critical for dealing with a pwBPD and other very difficult people... .but don't stop there. Skills like validation go a long way toward improving the way you relate to all people.

My only regret now, is that my exgf has eliminated me from her life. I wish I knew all of these communication skills earlier, maybe they would have helped. Really, I know they would have. But I can't go back now, and she won't talk to me.

There is a truism that we form relationships with people who are a very similar level of emotional development to ourselves. We often pick people who have different, even opposite dysfunctions, but the level is usually very similar. If you find somebody who is far below you that way, they don't even seem attractive--they just seem to messed up to want to get involved with.

You've learned through this difficult relationship. You've grown. Your exgf probably hasn't. Chances are, you are ready for somebody who is more together than she was.

Be as patient with yourself as you can--this kind of grieving process can take a while. Let yourself feel hurt and empty. Let yourself experience the rough time. It will get better.

I know... .I'm ever so slowly doing better... .so much more slowly than I WANT to. But I am healing and coping. 

[Reecer1588]

First of all... .those communication skills you learned... .they are absolutely critical for dealing with a pwBPD and other very difficult people... .but don't stop there. Skills like validation go a long way toward improving the way you relate to all people.

My only regret now, is that my exgf has eliminated me from her life. I wish I knew all of these communication skills earlier, maybe they would have helped. Really, I know they would have. But I can't go back now, and she won't talk to me.

There is a truism that we form relationships with people who are a very similar level of emotional development to ourselves. We often pick people who have different, even opposite dysfunctions, but the level is usually very similar. If you find somebody who is far below you that way, they don't even seem attractive--they just seem to messed up to want to get involved with.

You've learned through this difficult relationship. You've grown. Your exgf probably hasn't. Chances are, you are ready for somebody who is more together than she was.

I wanted to respond to your reply three-fold.

First: I'm glad you are slowly growing! My growth is also slower than I want, but slowly I am growing, and you're right about your 'truism,' if she is so far below me now emotionally, I probably would not find her very appealing. And your whole deal about opposite dysfunction but likely same emotional level, YUP. Accuracy there regarding me.

Second: Here's what I like as a person: I like definite, measurable achievements. I've lost 30 pounds, for example. Ok that's definable. I've gotten a lot better at the sport of basketball. Ok, again, something definite. What I like so much about these communication skills is this: They are real, defined achievements. I am now aware, and implementing tools like Validation, and SETup in my daily interactions with people. And it's making a noticeable difference, my friend circle has grown, people seem to want to interact with me more, it's a good thing. And it's Real.


Third: I'm no longer honed in on my ex's life. I have no idea if she has grown from this experience like I have. From the few signs I DO have, it looks like her mental state is just Turmoil. She's not keeping up her hygiene (teeth are yellow, for example), and she's eating all the time. Gained what looks like 20+ pounds in the same timeframe I've lost the weight. Point being, it wouldn't appear to me she is doing things like learning communication skills, or understanding that EVERYONE is on the same 'level' as you. This is my big breakthrough I'm trying to make. To understand that in no way am I 'special' or on a 'higher plane' than anyone else, everyone is just on the same level. I'm not 'special' like that, basically.


Lastly, I hear you. I hear what you're saying. I'd still like to hear from my ex, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about that side of it. All I can do is work on me.

[eeks]

There is a truism that we form relationships with people who are a very similar level of emotional development to ourselves. We often pick people who have different, even opposite dysfunctions, but the level is usually very similar. If you find somebody who is far below you that way, they don't even seem attractive--they just seem to messed up to want to get involved with.

I don't know what I think about this.  I get it, in that if I look back at some of the troublesome dynamics in my life, whether relationship, work colleagues/supervisors, whatever, I can say (as I'm sure others can) that there were certain roles we were playing that fit together like a lock and key, and those may well have been the things that consciously or unconsciously (or some combination of the two) drew me and the one or more people involved together.  

I can see it feeling insulting to be told that one is not very mature... .but on the other hand if you feel that you cannot handle a lot of situations in life, finding out that that's because you are only running on, say, 30% of potential capacity, that means there's so much more of yourself to bring "online" so to speak and bring to bear in facing challenges?  As in, finding out that you (and by inference, your family upbringing) are more dysfunctional than you thought you were can be kind of a relief, because then you're less likely to feel it's your fault personally for screwing up all the positive parenting and wonderful opportunities you were given?  

But back to this issue of "similar levels", on the other hand, after recounting some of the text conversations to my therapist, he told me unsolicited that I am more mature than uBPD ex.  If I think about that, at minimum, I am willing to get psychotherapy and stick to it (and was doing that before I met him), and uBPD ex is not, and to me that's a significant difference.  Also, I was willing to look at the details of my interactions with him and what they said about our dynamic (and what got triggered in me), and often I wasn't able to empathize or be present with him, but at least I was aware of that when it happened. He, on the other hand, blamed me for his feelings, and accused me of selfish motives for my actions.  I can honestly say I introspected to see if there were grains of truth in what he said... .nope!  But at the time I questioned myself, like maybe I am really not as ethical of a person as I thought I was, but I remember the moment (sheer passage of time and reading on this site) that I got my sense of self back, and realized it was his influence that caused me to question myself.   So I think it's important for me to continue to look at why I got involved with someone like this in the first place, but "similar level of emotional development" I'm just not sure about that.

[Grey Kitty]

But back to this issue of "similar levels", on the other hand, after recounting some of the text conversations to my therapist, he told me unsolicited that I am more mature than uBPD ex.  If I think about that, at minimum, I am willing to get psychotherapy and stick to it (and was doing that before I met him), and uBPD ex is not, and to me that's a significant difference.  Also, I was willing to look at the details of my interactions with him and what they said about our dynamic (and what got triggered in me), and often I wasn't able to empathize or be present with him, but at least I was aware of that when it happened. He, on the other hand, blamed me for his feelings, and accused me of selfish motives for my actions.  I can honestly say I introspected to see if there were grains of truth in what he said... .nope!  But at the time I questioned myself, like maybe I am really not as ethical of a person as I thought I was, but I remember the moment (sheer passage of time and reading on this site) that I got my sense of self back, and realized it was his influence that caused me to question myself.   So I think it's important for me to continue to look at why I got involved with someone like this in the first place, but "similar level of emotional development" I'm just not sure about that.

First... .this doesn't apply to bosses, family members, coworkers--you don't pick them like you pick a romantic partner, and they often aren't. That statement is usually applied to romantic partners, and to a lesser degree, friends.

Second... .I think of it as being like steps on a staircase. The way I see it is that you are likely to connect with somebody who is on the same step you are on, or one above, or one below. Somebody two steps (or more) below you just looks too messed up to be attractive, no matter how hot they are physically. And while you may be attracted to somebody two or more steps above you, they aren't likely to be very interested.

Most important--your shoes aren't nailed to the step you are on. You can grow and climb a step. Life can hit you with more than you can handle, and you can fall down a step. As a clarifying example, grieving a loss and being horribly depressed isn't falling down a step. Grieving a loss by becoming an alcoholic to numb yourself so you don't feel the pain is falling down at least one step. Grieving the loss of a relationship by rebounding into a new relationship before you feel the pain isn't healthy... .it would be above becoming an alcoholic... .but below allowing yourself to feel the pain and really grieve.

Your statement that you are now more mature than your uBPDex is very likely true. Do you think it was true when you met? Being in an abusive r/s with a pwBPD is an amazing opportunity to spur growth on your part!

If I look over my marriage of over 20 years, which started when both I and my wife were quite young... .My FOO raised me on a fairly high functioning step. My wife's FOO raised her three steps down. Before we met, she did some real work on herself, and had already climbed up to about where I was. Over the years, we both grew and climbed a step. Some stuff hit her, and she fell down a step or two. Became abusive enough to put me through a particular version of hell... .I learned and grew there. When I found these forums and stopped accepting abuse, the changes in me gave her little choice but grow herself as I took her coping mechanism away (Project problems onto me, then abuse me for them, avoiding having to address them in herself). After I climbed a couple steps there, she did too. The crap at the end of our marriage, and living separated gave me more time to grow, and I've climbed a couple more steps. I believe she can and may well climb up farther herself, but it is probably too late for our marriage--she's convinced she can't do the growth she needs inside our marriage. I'm not done grieving yet, but I'm already looking forward to dating, and meeting somebody on the same step I'm on NOW. Looking forward to something soo much better than what I had. Despite having a lot of good things in our marriage. Note: My wife wasn't showing full-on BPD when we met. It got worse in the last few years. Today I'd say she's healed enough that she doesn't meet diagnostic criteria... .but not enough to be in a healthy r/s with me... .or anybody else right now. Last she spoke to me, she expressed a desire to stay out of r/s and work on herself. Dunno if she'll stick with that or not, but no longer my problem.

[Grey Kitty]

  You sound like you are making amazing progress working on yourself. Keep it up!

Lastly, I hear you. I hear what you're saying. I'd still like to hear from my ex, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about that side of it. All I can do is work on me.

It is the journey you have to walk, for better or for worse. Mine is very different. We can't trade whether we want to or not.

My marriage is pretty much over. I'm still in contact with my wife. We have a fair bit of personal business we need to finish, and other things that we both want to do which will keep us connected whether we want it or not.

I'm doing all I can to avoid any and all deep emotional content with her. I'm still grieving the loss of our marriage, and this will stir new hope that things are going to turn around immediately, even though I know better. It is going to take months for me to be able to connect with her like that and not harm myself. I don't like rejecting her, and I'm doing it as clearly and as gently as I can. it is a challenge.

My wife is still reaching out to me in friendly chatty ways (tagging me with nice/thoughtful things on facebook, for example), expressing that she still loves me. I struggle with this--I do still love her. We will both always love each other. These little friendly contacts leave me feeling hurt and confused, rather than warm and loved.

In six months or a year or two, I sincerely hope that we can connect on a deep emotional level, supporting and loving each other in a new relationship/friendship that honors our past. I know I'm not there now. I don't know where my wife will be when I am.

Today it is challenging and confusing to me. We don't get to choose our journey. All we get to do is take the next step forward on it.