Seeking suggestions on how to deal with the house

[adventurer]

Divorce is still many months away. I have had a couple consults and am in the beginning stages of putting steps into place for future separation but she has some health issues I need to see through with her and I need time to build some funds for attorney, my own car and possible rent.

I am not wondering what do to w/ the house in divorce - I don't want it and she can't afford it, so we will be forced to sell.  I am wondering how to deal w/ occupancy when I finally break news that I want a divorce.  When I tell her this, I know I will not be able to be around her.  I won't be able to handle her feelings, her emotional breakdown and her guilt-tripping and promises.

Should I just leave the house for the time being?  I am the sole breadwinner so I wonder if handling mortgage and bills will be a mess if I'm not receiving the mail?  My wife is usually not violent (her behaviors have gotten worse when I try to set boundaries) but I wonder which of my belongings to get out immediately in case she gets destructive.  And how to do this.  If in advance, I show my hand early.  If after, I will be moving out while she is in emotional hurricane.  Or just leave it behind, nothing is irreplaceable.

Or do I give her some cash and tell her to leave?  I see people here talking about legally kicking someone out at the time of the divorce filing, but I'm not sure what legal grounds I would have to do so.  Do I reach out to one of my friends or one of her friends to manage the packing, move out?  I am not afraid of physical violence from her.

I have set up an individual bank account to which I can route my paycheck at any time and I have a safety deposit box with some papers and my inherited family jewelry.  Any other possessions I have are replaceable, some musical instruments and book I'm attached to but that's the extent of it.

Just wondering what to plan or maybe this is entirely premature and something to deal with when I get a lawyer on retainer.

[ForeverDad]

Give her some cash and tell her to leave?  What if she takes it and then doesn't leave?  What if she denies getting cash, doesn't leave, you have to pay for the house while she delays the divorce and then she gets a settlement based on her claim you never gave her cash?

First and foremost, protect yourself in case she makes allegations.  Many disordered people (BPD, NPD and other acting-out PDs) will become very defensive and overreact, feeling making allegations will make you look worse than her.  Yes, she may do it to save face, to maintain her Mask of Seeming Normalcy, she will feel she has to Shift the Blame for the marriage's failure elsewhere and you're the perfect Target.  Yes, spending a weekend in jail is not out of the question.  Be wery, wery careful, Mr Elmer Fudd.

Second, even if there are no children resulting from the relationship and hence it ought to be a simple divorce, she could still delay the case by requesting multiple continuances, failing to cooperate with data requests and outright obstruction.

Hopefully it will all turn out uneventful - but be very prepared if Mt Vesuvius erupts.

Our #1 handbook:  Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger

[jedimaster]

I moved out as soon as I told my uBPDw.  It turns out she was non-violent, almost passive, when I told her, but I couldn't take the chance that she wouldn't explode.  I made arrangements for a place to stay and moved my most current clothes and my basic necessities while she was out of the house, then told her when she got home.  Our housing situation is similar to yours; she can't afford it and I don't want it. 

I pay all my bills online so it has been relatively simple to keep things going while we sort out our divorce.  I would suggest if you don't already do that, to set it up immediately.  Most of my bills have a website and accept online payments, but for a couple that don't, my bank offers an online bill paying service.  Basically I go online and enter the information and the bank mails them a check or makes a money transfer for me.  I also give my wife an allowance of sorts to help with groceries and household expenses until we agree on alimony.  I was doing that with cash but I recently set up a bank transfer for that as well. 

You can get a PO Box and have the mail transferred if necessary, or look into one of those mail drop services like MailBoxes, Etc. 

My lawyer told me that in our state at least, it is considered perfectly normal for one party to move out during a divorce.  Unless someone leaves the state and/or drops out of sight for a couple of years, it is not considered abandonment. 

In hindsight it was absolutely the right thing to do.  Our conversations so far have been civil but strained.  I have no doubt that if I were in the house with her while trying to sort this out all hell would break loose.

I would suggest getting anything out that is really important up front.  My wife was very cooperative the first couple of weeks, but it's become more difficult to get things I left behind and would now like to have. 

[whirlpoollife]

Open a PO Box to have mail fowarded to it.  But anything in her name you might not be able to.

Or pay the bills online.

You might want a storage unit to put all finacial papers of any kind in it if you don't get a place to live.

After I filed,  I stayed, cause then L said to,  because I had much financially tied into it, but living together for the next five months and then drama of xh having to move was too much too bare.

If you can have a place to go to after you file, and still be able to take care of the bills for the house till it sells, you would have a head start on healing for yourself.

During my hearing and settlement talks, xh tried to get reimbursed for rent from me for staying in the house. But that got dropped because I paid the mortgage and upkeep during the divorce process.

So if s2bx stays , but not be able to pay rent ,  you might be able to take it off her portion of the marital asset.

[catnap]

Give her some cash and tell her to leave?  What if she takes it and then doesn't leave?  What if she denies getting cash, doesn't leave, you have to pay for the house while she delays the divorce and then she gets a settlement based on her claim you never gave her cash?

First and foremost, protect yourself in case she makes allegations.  Many disordered people (BPD, NPD and other acting-out PDs) will become very defensive and overreact, feeling making allegations will make you look worse than her.  Yes, she may do it to save face, to maintain her Mask of Seeming Normalcy, she will feel she has to Shift the Blame for the marriage's failure elsewhere and you're the perfect Target.  Yes, spending a weekend in jail is not out of the question.  Be wery, wery careful, Mr Elmer Fudd.

Second, even if there are no children resulting from the relationship and hence it ought to be a simple divorce, she could still delay the case by requesting multiple continuances, failing to cooperate with data requests and outright obstruction.

Hopefully it will all turn out uneventful - but be very prepared if Mt Vesuvius erupts.

Our #1 handbook:  Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger

Speak to your attorney (when retained) about enforceable parameters to have the house available and presentable for viewing and upkeep of the lawn.  Take pictures of every room in the home with furniture in place (keeps her from claiming you "stole" items or making up expensive ones), the bathrooms, garage, yard, etc. showing how you left it. She cannot move anyone else in or taking on paying roommates, etc.   

We have had members that spent over a year trying to get a marital home shown for sale due to the fact they had no enforceable agreement in place.

[livednlearned]

Do you have a clear sense about how she will respond once you file? For example, some people with BPD become violent, others might be suicidal. Some might lawyer up and become very aggressive. My ex agreed to everything, but then obstructed all of the agreements. It's good to think this through as much as possible so you can put together a strategy that works for your specific situation.

Not all people with BPD are high-conflict personalities (HCPs), which is what Bill Eddy (author of Splitting: Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse) describes people with personality disorders who take things to a whole other level. A high-conflict personality typically recruits negative advocates, is a persuasive blamer, and has a target of blame (you). If your wife is a high-conflict personality, you will want as much leverage as possible, and a lawyer who is a skilled negotiator and good strategist, as well as someone who has trial experience.

That might mean having a legal document that gives her x number of days to move out. If she is not out by that date, eviction will take place and her belongings will be moved to a storage locker, or whatever. Any costs accrued for eviction will be deducted from the sale price of the home. The document should also specify that you will propose three realtors, and she can choose one. Whomever is paying the mortgage gets to decide whether to fire a realtor. Same for the appraiser. If an offer is made on the house within 5% of the asking price, the person paying the mortgage has final say in whether to accept the offer.

So you paying the mortgage needs to be spun as leverage in a legal agreement. And she should be required to agree to conditions in which failure to comply results in xyz. Having leverage and consequences is important so that you can keep moving things forward despite her dysregulations of high-conflict behaviors.

I gave my ex the house (first mistake) and it took three trips to court to get him to refinance the house. He was given a year to refinance (second mistake), and he failed to hit the deadline, so I had to file a motion for contempt 18 months later. The judge gave him an extension of 60 days. Ex tried to disentangle the home equity line from the mortgage, so I hired a real estate attorney who asked for the refi offer to be re-drafted. Ex tried to present that as evidence during the second motion for contempt that I was preventing him from refinancing the house, and that I should pay him thousands because that had been a good deal and he could find nothing else that good. So I should pay him the difference between his monthly mortgage payments on the first refi offer versus what he would get on the second refi offer -- either that or he was also happy to stop paying alimony.

The judge found him in contempt, ordered him to pay me legal sanctions, and gave him 30 days to refinance the house. Ex did the refi, but refused to pay my legal fees.

Another motion for contempt. I think that was the hearing when the judge ordered the bailiff to handcuff ex. That seemed to send a message, and ex suddenly had his checkbook out.

So think ahead very carefully about points where you have to be in agreement, and spell out how those agreements will go down, and the consequences if one party fails to comply.

[Linda Maria]

Hi adventurer!  Sorry to hear your situation, but good for you that you are so clear thinking about it.  You have received a lot of good advice here.  I cannot offer much, the pwBPD in my life is my sister, but after my Mum died, she became unbearable, and prevented us from sorting out my Mum's estate for 2 years. We were co-executors and 50/50 beneficiaries.   She moved into my Mum's house (although she has her own, nearby).  I didn't have a problem with her living there till it was sold, but she obstructed the house going on to the market, kept it in such a state they couldn't photograph all the rooms, prevented viewings, and only accepted the offer, and agreement to exchange after I had started court proceedings, and she knew the game was up.  There was other property as well, and she made the whole process twice as long, twice as costly, and unbelievably painful for everyone involved.  So definitely have a legally binding agreement in place as to what will happen, and the consequences if they don't.  My situation was ridiculous, my sister was in a position to buy me out of my share of the house if she wanted to keep it, and I had already said that would be fine with me, she insisted on selling it, then made it as hard as possible.  Have everything in writing and copied to all relevant third parties, so everything is out in the open and exposed - that way you can't be falsely accused of anything.  Good luck!