Always second guessing. Please help/advise (sorry so long)

[mileenie]

D16 has been hospitalized 3 times for self harm. SHe is dx with BPD. DH and I believe she also has Histrionic PD. D16 enjoys her hospital stays. Has called it 'sleepaway camp for mental patients'. LOVES the socialization aspect of it. Does what she can to delay discharge, has figured out what to say to make them keep her. She has a magnetic and outgoing personality and is very smart and manipulative.  When we visit her, it seems as if she is the 'entertainment director' or center of attention.

D16 identifies a bisexual, which DH and I have no issues with and she knows that. We don't care who she loves as long as she is treated well.

D16 gets VERY obsessive over girls that she meets in the hospitals. During her October hospitalization, she became obsessed with 'K', who also identified as bisexual. When they were released, we prohibited meetings but allowed the girls to talk and text (during times that D16 wasn't on phone or social media lockdown- which happens often with her because of her poor decision making and impulsiveness.) A few days after release, the night we were starting DBT, she cut the crap out of her arm and said she needed to go back to the hospital (at this point we thought it was a diversion so she wouldn't have to go to DBT). We wrapped up her arm and went to therapy. A couple of weeks later, we found out, through the ipod she stole out of a lockbox,  that the reason she cut up her arm that night was because K was going back to the hospital and D16 cut herself so she could be sent back to the hospital to 'protect' K, because K 'shouldn't be there all by herself with no one there to protect her'. Obviously, she didn't care how sending herself back to the hospital would affect her family- her parents, and, at the time, her 5 yo brother and 12 yo sister. DH and I both work full time and he travels A LOT for work, and often I am by myself taking care of everyone, working, and taking her to 3 hours of DBT on Mondays.

D16 was just released last week from her 3rd hospital stay. She was there for 2 weeks and then went to a partial program for a week. We found out that she sent VERY inappropriate pics of herself to her younger sister's  male friends. She denied it vehemently. Lied to everyone including her therapist. That night she cut the crap out of her arm again and texted her therapist that she wished she cut deeper.

2 week hospital stay where she met her new obsession, 'b'.  B also identifies as bisexual.  She was hospitalized because she cut her arm, and 'tried to hit an artery'. (When we were released from this hospitalization to partial, and she had her first meeting with the doctors at partial, they asked her if she cut herself or tried to kill herself. She told them she 'tried to hit an artery', as she adopts other peoples maladaptive stories.

Anyway, before her release, we sat with her and the doctors and let her know that there is to be no contact outside of the hospital with the other patients she met. Dr stated that those are hospital rules as well as her parents' rules. We were adamant that there was to be no contact, as she needs to maintain relationships with people who make healthy choices, and because B tried to kill herself over a relationship she does not make healthy choices. She has been out for a week and change. Of course our home life has been turned upside down again since she is home.

She seems to feel very empowered since her release and tells us that no matter what we do or say, she will continue to be in contact with B. She is obsessed. I was showing her a letter that a student wrote to me in appreciation, and her reaction was "Awww, that's how I feel about B".   She's known her for 2 weeks. D16 has no computer or electronics because she cannot be trusted with social media. We've done our best to keep home phone cordless handsets in out bedroom.  However, our daughter has somehow gotten someone somewhere to send out a package to B, against our wishes. We have caught her on the home phone with her. We told her that her consequence would be that she  would not be able to go out for social things, but anything social would have to be in our home and supervised by us. She doesn't care about any consequence. Told us there is NOTHING we can do or say that will keep her from B.  She will do whatever it takes to be in touch with this girl. Last night, I woke up at 1:30 am and looked at the phone and it said 'in use'. I got up, walked into her bedroom were she pretended to be sleeping, pulled back her blanket and took the phone, without saying a word. She then came into our bedroom and said "You may as well give in because you are not going to stop me from getting in touch with her".

In speaking with some people, their reaction is, if D16 feels such a connection with this girl and feels that this girl understands her, why don't we allowed supervised phone conversations.

This is where second guessing comes in. How do we allow even supervised phone conversations when we were adamant, and were backed up by hospital guidelines, that there should be no outside contact because of the unhealthy dynamic?  Are we wrong in asking our daughter to maintain healthy relationships? Are we wrong to ask her not to maintain a relationship with someone else who is so unhealthy that she tried to kill herself over another girl? Are we being unreasonable?

How could I allow this to go on?

Also, if you are familiar with DBT, D16's therapist asked me what was the middle path in this. I said this situation has no middle path, this situation needs radical acceptance by our daughter.

If you have gotten this far, thank you for reading. She makes us second guess every decision we make. We need somewhere to turn to.

Please advise.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JustAMum]

I don't really have any advice. I just wanted you to know that I also have a 16yr old d who has self harmed in the past. My d tried to OD last year. Maybe the girl that your d met is now on the road to recovery. I'm not sure how you can completely stop your d from being in contact with this other girl where there's a will there's a way especially with a 16 yr old.

[lbjnltx]

Hi mileenie,

Good to see you back though sorry to hear that the battles continue.  It seems that because your daughter is unable to protect herself in the world that you are making a smaller, more manageable world for her to exist in.  As you try to control she will rebel, as you respond with more limits she will up the ante to push those limits. I'm afraid that your daughter is correct, you aren't going to win this one. 

When I was in your position with my then 13 year old daughter I had to make a choice... .either let her go and learn the hard way (some consequences have permanent and devastating effects) or place her in a 24/7 safe environment where she would get help.  We cannot duplicate this environment at home nor should we try... .we cannot be therapists to our kids, control their behaviors, nor keep them under safety watch 24/7.

I chose to send her to Residential Treatment long term and have never regretted it for one minute.  When she was finished with treatment we gradually gave her earned privileges and more freedoms until she was integrated back into the "world".  I'm not saying this is what you should do, I am pointing out that you are setting yourself up for ongoing and unwinnable battles.  I also understand why you are doing it... .

One of the many skills my daughter was able to learn was negotiation.  First she had to earn a privilege through responsible behaviors and then she had to negotiate the extent of that privilege.  I like your limit of having her socialize at home... .that is step one... .maybe step two is taking her and whomever out and then picking them up.  It is a gradual trust that is built and there will be times that trust is broken and you will all have to begin again.

How long has your d been in DBT therapy?  Is she participating and buying into the skills taught?

lbj

[mileenie]

Thanks for your responses.

LBJ- which RC did u send your daughter to? How long was she there?

We have been in DBT since November. She participates very often in group. She hears what we are learning, but doesn't necessarily use the skills yet.

What am I suppose to do about this girl that my daughter has an unhealthy obsession with? Can I ask the girl not to contact her anymore because my daughter needs to work on getting better?

[lbjnltx]

Thanks for your responses.

LBJ- which RC did u send your daughter to?

I chose Falcon Ridge Ranch... .one reason was because my d13 was not buying into the DBT skills nor making significant progress with outpatient therapy after 2+ years.

How long was she there?

10 months and another 6 weeks a few months later when she started back sliding.

What am I suppose to do about this girl that my daughter has an unhealthy obsession with?

Controlled contact... .negotiate it out with your daughter. 

Can I ask the girl not to contact her anymore because my daughter needs to work on getting better?

  You can and it will further damage your r/s with your daughter when she finds out.  Your daughter (and most teenagers) won't understand your motivation nor accept your limit. Add to that no real power to get the other girl to comply.

lbj

[mileenie]

How do I negotiate out controlled contact? Here is the other problem I see- if we have been telling her that the hospital said no contact also, then doesn't it look like I am allowing her to break hospital rules (even though she is no longer there)? If I go back on our rule, she will continue to argue with us for other things until we 'give in' and she 'gets her way'.

My daughter seems to only want to 'get better' for this girl. Not for herself and not  for the relationships with her family. How can she work on getting better if she is involved with another emotionally stable person?

I hope my message doesn't come across as argumentative. Not at all what is in my head. My questions are just that- questions. Trying to learn how to do this.

[lbjnltx]

How do I negotiate out controlled contact?

You and your daughter are at opposite ends of the spectrum, you meet on the middle path.  Her part is to meet requirements that earn her the privileges she wants and your part is to hold her to it. 

Here is the other problem I see- if we have been telling her that the hospital said no contact also, then doesn't it look like I am allowing her to break hospital rules (even though she is no longer there)? If I go back on our rule, she will continue to argue with us for other things until we 'give in' and she 'gets her way'.

The hospital cannot control this anymore than you can.  There is no shame in admitting to your daughter that you cannot stop her and you will hold her accountable... .Rather than argue how about setting her up for success by tying privileges to responsibilities... .school, chores, respecting others, attending therapy, participating in therapy, using the skills she's learned... .if she is improving in order to earn privileges that is a win win. If she is not earning the privileges then you will need to make some decisions about her care and how much you are willing to do, change, put up with, ignore or allow.  Through all of this... .the good and the bad you will need to take care of yourself to be stable mentally and emotionally to make wise choices for your daughter as well as the rest of your family.

My daughter seems to only want to 'get better' for this girl. Not for herself and not  for the relationships with her family. How can she work on getting better if she is involved with another emotionally stable person?

This might be a golden opportunity to encourage  your daughter to use the skills she has learned to  help her friend.  One of the mantra's of Positive Peer Culture is that we are either helping or hurting... .if she is gaga over this girl she will want to be a healthy person who also helps her friends.  Which is also another mantra of PPC... .the only authentic help comes from someone who is helping themselves.

I hope my message doesn't come across as argumentative. Not at all what is in my head. My questions are just that- questions. Trying to learn how to do this.

No worries mileenie... .your questions are valid and so are your concerns.

 back to you!

lbj