NC with BPD mother for seven years - T says I should try to re-establish contact

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi,

I've been away from this board for quite some time, but I am back now because I  am trying to get some help on a decision.

I have been NC with a diagnosed BPD mother for close to eight years. No more fights, no more arguments. I am 49 years old, and this has been the most calm period of my life.

Now my T thinks that in order to have truly healthy "internal boundaries", I need to remove the "mechanical boundary" that I have created by being NC.

I tried to argue with him that this is a fruitless exercise, but he insists. If he is right, I will go through with it.

But I wonder - is he nuts?

SonOfAQueenWitch

[SonOfAQueenWitch]

Hi,

I've been away from this board for quite some time, but I am back now because I  am trying to get some help on a decision.

I have been NC with a diagnosed BPD mother for close to eight years. No more fights, no more arguments. I am 49 years old, and this has been the most calm period of my life.

Now my T thinks that in order to have truly healthy "internal boundaries", I need to remove the "mechanical boundary" that I have created by being NC.

I tried to argue with him that this is a fruitless exercise, but he insists. If he is right, I will go through with it.

But I wonder - is he nuts?

SonOfAQueenWitch

[EaglesJuju]

Hi SonOfAQueenWitch,

I do not think there is a right or wrong answer to NC. NC is a tool used for you to heal and detach yourself. I am assuming that your T is asking you this because you have made significant progress in your therapy and may have plateaued. Many times when a client/patient has plateaued a T will suggest something to shift the clients affective response. 

Regardless what your T thinks, the decision is up to you.

Here are some questions that I would ask myself:

Do you think that you could establish boundaries with your mother while being in contact?

Do you think that you can not let your mother's behavior affect you?

[Ready4Peace]

I too believe that NC is a personal choice. I have been NC with my BPD mother for almost 8 years as well and my personal feeling is BPDs are emotionally and mentally abusive to those in their lives so I'm lucky to have escaped. I feel that setting boundaries takes a lot of time, energy and management for a relationship that does not bring any positives to my life. My questions are what does your T think you will gain by reestablishing contact? If a spouse, friend, etc. was treating you in an abusive manner would your T recommend staying in contact?

[SonOfAQueenWitch]

Thank you for those helpful replies.

The T sees a clear difference of quality between mechanical boundaries and internal boundaries. He feels mechanical boundaries are not as strong as internal boundaries.

I don't quite see the difference yet. To me, a mechanical can also be an internal boundary. But he differs.

[Kwamina]

Hi SonOfAQueenWitch

Welcome back here!

Now my T thinks that in order to have truly healthy "internal boundaries", I need to remove the "mechanical boundary" that I have created by being NC.

I tried to argue with him that this is a fruitless exercise, but he insists.

I am wondering what led up to your T saying this? Were there specific issues you were working on?

The T sees a clear difference of quality between mechanical boundaries and internal boundaries. He feels mechanical boundaries are not as strong as internal boundaries.

I don't quite see the difference yet. To me, a mechanical can also be an internal boundary. But he differs.

I suspect what your T might mean is that as a result of being NC, you haven't had to deal with certain issues which would require you to enforce/defend your boundaries by asserting yourself or taking other forms of action. The NC by itself has been your boundary and protection.To be able to set and defend boundaries while being in contact with your BPD mother, would require certain internal mechanisms to be in place. Do you think this might be where your T is coming from?

Regardless of why your T said what he said, you went NC for a reason because you probably felt this was needed to protect your own well-being. I agree with what has already been said about this being a personal choice. You got to do what you think is best for you. To me breaking NC only makes sense if that is something you yourself want to do and if you also feel like it would be a safe thing to do.

[SonOfAQueenWitch]

I am wondering what led up to your T saying this? Were there specific issues you were working on?

Relationship issues at work. I have a high pressure career where relationships matter very much. I work in an international institution where the environment is very competitive. I can be self-critical. There are also complicated love interests.

I suspect what your T might mean is that as a result of being NC, you haven't had to deal with certain issues which would require you to enforce/defend your boundaries by asserting yourself or taking other forms of action. The NC by itself has been your boundary and protection.To be able to set and defend boundaries while being in contact with your BPD mother, would require certain internal mechanisms to be in place. Do you think this might be where your T is coming from?

Regardless of why your T said what he said, you went NC for a reason because you probably felt this was needed to protect your own well-being. I agree with what has already been said about this being a personal choice. You got to do what you think is best for you. To me breaking NC only makes sense if that is something you yourself want to do and if you also feel like it would be a safe thing to do.

This is a very insightful set of comments. The NC was the first time I actually had the chance to set any boundaries with my mother, even with her living on the other side of the Atlantic. I felt it was fundamental in establishing my own inner space.

One helpful piece of information might be the fact that I started seeing my T (psycho-dynamicist) a few years after I went NC, ostensibly because I was showing symptoms of PTS.

[Kwamina]

I can be self-critical.

Where do you think this self-critical voice comes from? Was your mother perhaps often critical of you and did you perhaps internalize that critical voice? Or would you say that this mainly comes from operating in such a highly competitive environment? (Or both!)

One helpful piece of information might be the fact that I started seeing my T (psycho-dynamicist) a few years after I went NC, ostensibly because I was showing symptoms of PTS.

How is this going now? Are you better able to deal with your PTS symptoms?

[SonOfAQueenWitch]

Where do you think this self-critical voice comes from? Was your mother perhaps often critical of you and did you perhaps internalize that critical voice? Or would you say that this mainly comes from operating in such a highly competitive environment? (Or both!)

Self-critical to a painful extent clearly comes from upbringing. Managing it somewhat.

How is this going now? Are you better able to deal with your PTS symptoms?

Out of PTS for certain. For some time now.

The name "Kwamina" sounds African - actually, I would say East African. How far off am I?

[Leaving]

One of my therapists years ago told me to ' keep the door open' during my NC with my mother.  I thought she was nuts and I even got mad at her and asked why she would suggest that I ever make contact with my hateful insane mother.  

Now I understand why she told me this.  It's easy to avoid and allow ourselves to get distracted by our busy schedules without realizing that we are repressing emotions that are affecting our personal and professional relationships.

In my case, it was very therapeutic for me to reconnect with my mother after NC ( 3 separate times) because it provided an opportunity to measure my progress in establishing emotional independence from her.  With each reconnection, I also saw my mother and her illness more clearly and how it affected me throughout my life.  

[Kwamina]

Self-critical to a painful extent clearly comes from upbringing. Managing it somewhat.

Many children of BPD parents find themselves struggling with this. Perhaps it can help you to take a look at a recent thread here about how to deal with negative automatic thoughts and talking back to your inner critic: Automatic negative thoughts: Talking back to your inner critic/negative voice

[bethanny]

Therapists can be so helpful and grounding and help us do "reality checks" when we grew up in surreal environments.

BUT, don't let the therapist drive your life or jam the radar of your own intuition and self-trust.  Good to be challenged by those with our interests and safety and growth at heart, but no one's head is higher than our own.  Growing up with dysfunctional parents means we lost a lot of our sense of self-trust from long time erosion.  We shouldn't turn over our self-governance automatically to others.  We need to be at the helm. I am not saying it sounds like you are doing this.  I know I have let this happen.

I had NC for a decade decades ago.  Both my parents have passed on.  I appreciate the challenges of their lives but I also see what challenges they brought to me.  I am not sorry the estrangement ended.  There was growth in our relationships.  There was pain and confusion still at times, but there were also precious moments.

When I reentered the matrix it was from a safer but sadder distance but it meant a lot to be a part of the family and not officially estranged. 

I remember hearing how we need to keep the zipper to our self-esteem worn on the inside and not accessible to others to zip down and get to us easily and maliciously and irrationally. Easier said than done.

[PleaseValidate]

Dear SonofAQueenWitch,

A therapist should guide you but never late his/her own agenda interfere with your goals for treatment.

Is/was it a treatment goal of yours to reconnect with your mother? Is your therapist aware of your goals in this area or were they open ended when you started seeing them?

These are questions to ask yourself and talk about with your therapist. Now may be a good time to update your therapeutic goals with your therapist.

If you think that reconnection is more their goal then your goal, don't be afraid to state that. If you do or might want to reconnect but just are not ready, then express that.

The right therapist is priceless. But remember that therapists are also human and "countertransferance" is a real phenomenon.

[bethanny]

Dear Son,

I once had a T that insisted I go back to a toxic boyfriend since she wanted me to work on intimacy issues.  I left her instead of going back to him. 

Going from NC to LC, my advice is to have a strong LC boundary for yourself. Mine was enhanced by geographical distance. 

Ending the NC happened in my case since my mother became physically ill, dramatically, and my primary family contacted me. I was estranged from them, too. I got to communicate better with my siblings (with one major battle with one that ended in my favor), with my mother I got back on the tightrope and was resigned that emotional intimacy between us was not possible and I wanted the affinity and still had affection though it made me more self-doubting and confused going back to contact and more sorrowful. I knew nothing of the borderline disorder that raged in her all my life. It would have been a big help.

My anger after NC was replaced with deep sorrow.  My siblings were empathetic but had no sensibility of the crazymaking and psychological abuse i had gone through at her hands or at least the depth of it.  In denial of some of their own, though I was expected to never leave the nest especially being the only (surviving) daughter so they could is how it played out.  Also, my father's alcoholism was still going strong and LC had its stress with him, too.  More sorrow. My siblings did serious caretaking of both parents when I was out of the picture. I am glad that they did, that helped me go NC.  The first part of our lives, it fell on me significantly and destructively.

Today, still sorrow and mourning.  PTSD with ADD.

best, Bethanny

[Panda39]

Sonofaqueenwitch,

The thing I wanted to mention is that if you try getting in contact with her again and it doesn't work you can always go back to NC.  Nothing is set in stone.

My SO has 2 daughters.

D14 (Diagnosed with PTSD) is low contact with her mom and has been demonstrating boundary setting abilities, doesn't suffer from the guilt she had from going NC, and is able to voice her feelings. (This daughter is receiving therapy)

D18 is NC with mom, very angry, is stuffing her feelings and is triggered just by hearing her mom's voice on her sister's phone. (This daughter has had therapy in the past but currently isn't getting any... .dad is encouraging her to go back)

I know yours and everyone's situation is different, but which daughter do you think is handling things in a way that is healthier for themselves?  I go with D14 she is actually controlling the relationship she has with her mother.  She has also been NC with her mom in the past and knows that she has that option again if she feels she needs it.

You know yourself, your mom and your therapist best what is your gut telling you?

[polly87]

Hi Son,

It sounds as if you would not like to establish contact with your mother again. Then don't. It is your life and you chose to go NC for a reason.

I wonder what your therapist means when he implies that you do not have internal boundaries when you are NC. To me, going NC is the strongest boundary there is. I do not see why you would need to distinguish physical and internal boundaries.

I also wonder why the heck your T would *insist* on you contacting your mother. What are your former experiences with this T? Has he been able to help you in a positive way in dealing with your issues? Do you trust him? Having to argue with your T does not sound good. I do not think it should be necessary at all if he respects you. He might ask some provoking questions but arguing seems very odd.

Wishing you the best.

[Panda39]

Now my T thinks that in order to have truly healthy "internal boundaries", I need to remove the "mechanical boundary" that I have created by being NC.

I interperate this as... .

'interal boundaries" = behavioral or emotional boundaries

"mechanical boundary" = physical boundary

The example below demonstrates what I think the T is talking about... .

I just wanted to give a shout out to my SO's D14. She is learning to set boundaries!  I'm really proud of her 

Backstory:

D14 is the painted black daughter and her sister D18 is the golden daughter.

 

Currently D18 is VLC to NC with her uBPDmom.

D14 was hospitalized a year ago for suicide threats and has since been diagnosed with PTSD. 

D18 went away to college last Fall and uBPDmom began being even harder on D14 there was a lot of conflict between mom & D14 (mom being mean to her)

Last December D18 and D14 pretty much stopped seeing their mother

. 

D14 has decided she wants to try and have a relationship with her mom again, in a limited way.  She will spend some time with her mom if another adult (one of mom's friends... .I think there are 2 left) is present (this keeps mom mostly on the straight and narrow)... .Nice Boundary #1   Behavioral Boundary

D14 decided to spend a little time with her uBPDmom for Mother's Day... .all mom did was talk about D18 (who wants nothing to do with her) and bad mouth my SO.  D14 came home hurt and disappointed (because mom was not able to focus any attention on her)

D14 and uBPDmom (and friend) made plans to go out to dinner last night.  D14 went to mom's after school and again mom started talking about D18 and their dad. This time D14 told her mother that this was their time (her's & mom's) together and she didn't want to talk about her sister and dad... .expressed/stood up for herself... .Requested Boundary #2.  Behavioral Boundary

UBPDmom continued the same topics of conversation so 45 minutes into their visit she told the friend to please drive her home... .Enforced Boundary #3!  Mechanical Boundary

D14's behavior the last few days shows so much progress on her part!  At 14 she is catching on to things that many adults have difficulty with.  I'm really proud of her!