Still so difficult as a person who hates conflict to be happy in a BP r/s

[CastleofGlass]

Given how I grew up, I have realized during my 20s that I absolutely cannot stand conflict. I am one of those people that try to end conflicts as soon as they start because I do not like the tension caused by unresolved anger. It makes my day almost unbearable and makes me feel utterly alone in my marriage at times. It wasn't until I began therapy a couple months ago for myself that BPD was even mentioned at something I should look into for my wife. So for many years, I tried to do anything to avoid and resolve conflict because I had no idea what I was dealing with when it came to her. I only assumed it was her depression and anxiety which she takes a Rx for. She was seeing a therapist regularly for 10+ years going back to even before we met due to depression. She was never diagnosed with BPD. Not even diagnosed with bi-polar which I had suggested to her a couple years ago because my mother is bi-polar and my ex from years ago was also bi-polar. I am military and we have moved a few times during our marriage so her T would change from state to state until now where we are currently, she has no T.  My therapy sessions quickly turned from my up bringing and own life to therapy for what I am dealing with in my wife.

Her BPD has changed me. I know it has. I am a shell of my former self being with her. Even simple things like going to bed at a decent hour, I won't do because we don't get to spend much time together until the kids go to sleep. When I go to bed any earlier than 1130, she will say "Oh fine then, goodnight." and be angry with me through the next day because she will feel I am not spending time with her alone. So now, I will get maybe 5 1/2 to 6 hours of sleep a night to avoid this conflict. Going to lunch at work I will most times not even tell her I am on lunch break because she may have a needy moment where she wants to suck up my time to talk before I even get home. Or she will be asking a million questions as to where I am eating, what I'm eating and that it doesn't take me a full hour to eat, what else am I doing?... .

I have been reading the resources to the right and I know that I need to create certain boundaries, but the fact is, I have depression myself that only comes out during conflict. So when times are peaceful, I will have my own battle with why should I start a dysregulated moment to go to sleep at a decent time when I can just be tired the next day. I'd rather be tired than deal with a dysregulated spouse for an entire while I am at work getting nasty text messages?

What are your thoughts? How long of feeling this way about establishing such boundaries did it take before you finally decided that you will have to create some intentional dysregulation for the long term to get better?

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[vortex of confusion]

What are your thoughts? How long of feeling this way about establishing such boundaries did it take before you finally decided that you will have to create some intentional dysregulation for the long term to get better?

I am still working on this! It can be a long process for some. I am like you. I hate conflict.

For the longest time, I was reluctant to ask my husband to do simple things because he will cop an attitude and act like an insolent little child. I didn't want to deal with that so I would stop asking.

I found that I had to quit focusing on the fact that asking for what I want/need might cause a dysregulation/snotty attitude. I had to shift the focus to me and what I need. I had to quiet things in my own mind. For example, my thinking process used to go something like this, "I need help with X. Crap, if I ask for X, then I will have to put up with his BS. So, I am not going to ask for X and will do it myself." Then, I would get resentful for doing X. Then, I might ask him to do X later. If I asked him to do X and got attitude from him, I would get resentful for his attitude. I was stuck in the whole, "Why can't he do anything without the attitude." It was futile.

You are NOT responsible for her feelings. If you need sleep, then get some sleep. I am not sure how to explain it but it is all about boundaries. One thing to be sure of is that you can stick with a boundary once you set it. If you decide to set a boundary that you are going to go to bed at X time, then stick with it. Doing it one or two times and then stopping will create even more turmoil. Have you read anything about extinction bursts? If you stick with it, the snottiness will eventually moderate. It takes time and patience and personal strength to do it and stick with it.

Can you identify ONE thing that you want/need and can set a boundary on? Maybe you can post about it here and get some ideas on how to do it and stick with it and ride out the extinction burst.

[Cat Familiar]

I am still working on this! It can be a long process for some. I am like you. I hate conflict.

For the longest time, I was reluctant to ask my husband to do simple things because he will cop an attitude and act like an insolent little child. I didn't want to deal with that so I would stop asking.

I found that I had to quit focusing on the fact that asking for what I want/need might cause a dysregulation/snotty attitude. I had to shift the focus to me and what I need. I had to quiet things in my own mind. For example, my thinking process used to go something like this, "I need help with X. Crap, if I ask for X, then I will have to put up with his BS. So, I am not going to ask for X and will do it myself." Then, I would get resentful for doing X. Then, I might ask him to do X later. If I asked him to do X and got attitude from him, I would get resentful for his attitude. I was stuck in the whole, "Why can't he do anything without the attitude." It was futile.

This is exactly my experience, Vortex! You totally nailed it.

Castle, I too had sleep issues because my husband is a night owl and I'm a morning person. I would stay up, waiting for him to get sleepy and then I'd be wiped out the next day. I started instituting a 10:30 rule. He can join me in bed if he's able to sleep, otherwise he can sleep elsewhere. (It helps to have more than one bedroom.) Now I get a good night sleep and if he starts snoring loudly, I can move to another bed. It was a bit rough at first setting that limit, but now it's seamless. I can stay up later if we're having a good time, but I typically go to bed on time nearly every night. Having a good night's sleep helps me put up with his nonsense.

[CastleofGlass]

Can you identify ONE thing that you want/need and can set a boundary on? Maybe you can post about it here and get some ideas on how to do it and stick with it and ride out the extinction burst.

I would say the sleep is priority number one. My wife always gets pissed off if I go to sleep before her. When I tell her how tired I am or how I got x amount of hours of sleep, she will fire back with "so what? I'm 34 weeks pregnant and I get no sleep at all. I wake up all the time to use the bathroom and the baby is kicking the crap out of me, then I have to wake up an hour after you to get the kids ready and to school." She always one ups me with something and when she is pregnant, it's worse because she will compare everything I have issues with to what she has to go through with pregnancy. Recently, I've become so annoyed with the comparison that I will say something like "Ok, well you are comparing something that isn't biologically possible for me to know about or experience." It really irritates the crap out of me.

[vortex of confusion]

I would say the sleep is priority number one. ... .I'm 34 weeks pregnant and I get no sleep at all. I wake up all the time to use the bathroom and the baby is kicking the crap out of me, then I have to wake up an hour after you to get the kids ready and to school." She always one ups me with something and when she is pregnant, it's worse because she will compare everything I have issues with to what she has to go through with pregnancy.

 

This is a really tough situation. Does she do this when she isn't pregnant?

As a woman that has had 4 kids and have swapped stories with my pregnant friends over the years, I really do feel for your wife. That last trimester is a bear because it is impossible to sleep. It is impossible to get comfortable and all you want is the kid to hurry up and get here.

Is this a BPD thing or a pregnant thing? Or can you tell the difference?

I don't want to diminish your struggles. I have heard my husband make the same complaints that you have made. With so many kids and pregnancy and you trying to work, it isn't easy. What time do you have to be at work? Is there any way that you could help with the kids in the morning? If she is taking care of the kids at night and in the morning and is up and down all night going to the bathroom, she is likely going to be a grumpy b***h. And it is quite likely that she is going to continue to be that way until after the baby is born and the family adjusts to the new baby. This is difficult stuff to negotiate with or without any kind of personality disorders thrown into the mix.

[Stalwart]

Hey Castle:

Although I feel for the position you’re in I’m glad that a couple of months ago you were able to come a better awareness of what that situation is.

“I am a shell of my former self being with her” Is a really powerful recognition and statement. It’s one I can so relate to in my past. I hope you find as I did that learning, understanding and especially focusing in on honing the lessons to a natural life art will certainly help to fill in that shell to huge extent.

Apart from that the fact after that long that you’re still standing to become aware is a testament to just how able and strong and engaged you are and that’s admirable given the situations.

I so dig, “Given how I grew up, … I absolutely cannot stand conflict.” I slept every night of my childhood with a pillow over my head to smother out the arguing of my parents and so swore that I would not have that in my life. I think living with someone effected by this certainly make that a challenge but I can tell you that I’ve been fortunate enough to have been able to change that challenge around given time and more awareness of how to do that. It is possible and there’s also hope for you know that you’re on a path of better self-awareness of the situation and challenges you in.

To answer your question I’ve always treated boundaries a bit different I think than some others and perhaps in some cases that’s because I may not have had the really extreme  challenges some have. I place boundaries on myself with an understanding that I really can’t place boundaries and restrictions on another person and expect them to just fall in line and “comply.” I try to work more at trying to come to mutual recognitions coming to understandings together on issues. That can be really challenging.

I find it surprising that at times your wife isn’t really tired and to sleep more as a result of meds, stress and suspected bi-polar. My wife used to get upset if I did go to bed early. I’m not a major sleeper but hey you get nights and sometimes not feeling well would lead to that problem. Because she always needed to sleep whenever she was tired I began a long regiment of establishing that “Hey babe if you’re tired go sleep, if you’re tired you need to sleep, no problem here.” Given time it clicked in, not as a boundary but as a mutual permissiveness between us that went both ways, but it took time.

Because she always felt bad about having to go to bed I put a TV in the bedroom so most times she felt bad about having to go lay down – I’d just go with her. More often than not I go with her and read in bed and she watches TV until she falls off. But she feels better because we’re together. So regardless of which one is tired, it’s all good now. Now if I could just get her to stop waking me up to tell what happened in her show it would be heaven but one step at a time.

I find that trying to find solutions that are amiable to both of us and slowly changing mindsets and habits that lead to problems preferable to boundaries that have to be enforced. It might be a slower process but I find it less confrontational and more lasting. Problem is learning how to do that and being able to do that well with the boundaries that define your own wife’s capabilities to cope and adapt to the changes. Trick stuff but nothing that’s beyond you capabilities – I’m sure of the Castle.

It really does take time and patience to direct yourself in a better direction to change the dynamics of your relationship but it is time really well spent when you even overcome the smallest hurdle and see that you’re on the right direction and so is your relationship as a result of all the learning and work.

I can only tell you this much from my personal situation that I don’t want to go into,  but suffice to say we’d sank to Dante’s inferno and come out the other side of it. For all of those years, nightmares, fears and failures I can so say that I’ve come from being a shell of who I once was and really appreciate the fact that I came to terms with growing so much myself as a person in response to the challenges. It’s been rewarding to work so damn hard on such a desperate situation and be able to come out the other side having taken on the challenge and managed it well for both of us.

Stay at it Castle, you’ll find solutions – they’re there to be found.

[CastleofGlass]

This is a really tough situation. Does she do this when she isn't pregnant? Yes, even without being pregnant, she will take something I am dealing with and compare it to something she is or has dealt with. That would be the lack of empathy

Is this a BPD thing or a pregnant thing? Or can you tell the difference? As before, it's all the time. Pregnancy just augments what she will one up me with.

I wish I could attribute this to the pregnancy, but sadly I can't. Yes, the pregnancy does add some crappy situations for her and I definitely understand that. I do leave for work in the morning before she wakes up so I can't help with the kids then, but in the evenings, I am all over that house to help out. I do the dishes 99% of the time and 50% of the time I will take our 2 youngest ones up to bed and read a book to them before sleep. A lot of times, she will take them up while I hit the reset button (ie:clean) on the downstairs from the days worth of kid madness .

I just feel like at no point in my marriage have I been able to have something wrong with me and her actually genuinely care. If I'm sick, it's "God, men are such babies when they are sick. Try having morning sickness or pushing out a baby." I mean, come on, that is biologically impossible for me. That would be like me saying "Try getting kicked in the testicles sometime." It is just really disheartening at times to be expected to be impervious to pain or sickness and if I'm not then I'm compared to being a baby or I am expected to be downplayed to what she has gone through in childbirth.

[CastleofGlass]

Stalwart-I absolutely appreciate the post. Very encouraging words in there that are not often found in my life. What is strange is I have been dealing with all of these issues for 9 years but didn't know exactly what I needed to change and how to approach it. Now that I have answers, I have to kind of throw out a lot of things I was doing for 9 years and rescript it all. This is where I am now. I am a pretty self aware human being. I slipped a couple years ago in the madness of depression and unhappiness. It has been an entire rebuild of not only myself this year, but my marriage and with my kids as well. Just trying to foster a better relationship with all and not sink into my own shell of a world void of emotion.

[Stalwart]

Hey Castle: I have to do a little backstroking here for a minute. I guess I wasn’t being as attentive as I should have been but I didn’t realize that pregnancy was an issue. I understand that during her pregnancy isn’t the entire issue but at this moment and time it certainly is.

In my first marriage my wife was also a non so we didn’t face the challenges I do today, but really, when it comes to childbirth and that period in a couple’s lives it becomes such a different set of circumstances.

I’ve often considered how suited I am and thankful for my sex because I don’t think I could be man enough to even consider meeting the needs of pregnancy or childbirth.  Did that sound right?

I can’t perceive what personal challenges you might have that would supersede the extreme challenges of you and your wife in partnering together through her pregnancy, especially an advanced one. 

There are no other times in our lives as male spouses that can compare to the necessity of stepping up to plate and proving just how supportive and caring and loving we are as that time and need to support the physical and mental and emotional needs of your wife during pregnancy.

I’m sorry this is sounding like a lecture and that’s not my intent. I’m trying to point out the opportunity that you have right now in your relationship to partner in making it better, not just for today but for your entire future. There is no more important time for a man to step up to his wife’s side and needs than to be there for her during the extreme challenges of those time.

Yes, it is tiring sometimes and extraneous but it’s the opportunity of a lifetime to support and be there for her when she really, really does need that support. In as much as when a child is born your wife will transpire that much further from being herself into her new role of so totally encompassing; mother – pregnancy is the time when men move from being partner to ‘husband’ and of course subsequently to father.

It’s tough sometimes to recognize at certain times how small our challenges are compared to our partners but pregnancy and the demands of that? Wow, I always found they so superseded my own.

Having a child together. There’s the real opportunity to step up and show and be the best and most supportive person we can be in our relationships because our abilities to do that during and after the pregnancy will define who we are (or who we aren’t) to our spouses in the futures of our relationships together.

Congratulations my friend on the new child and the opportunities that brings to share together in your relationship as well.

[CastleofGlass]

Stalwart-Not a problem at all with the backtracking. This is our 3rd pregnancy together. When I met her, she had 2 already from previous relationships so I've had the full load out for 9 years of marriage. Unfortunately, during our first two pregnancies as a married couple, I was very upset. For one, her pregnancy had further enhanced her BPD, which at the time, I didn't even know what BPD was. So I wasn't walking on eggshells, I was walking barefoot in a warehouse of shattered glass. Being so depressed with conflict, I would encase myself in a non emotional shell during the pregnancies and really be nothing more than a person living in a house with a woman and 2 kids. I didn't contribute. I was one of those that would log on to World of Warcraft when I got home to escape my realities. That all changed since returning from my one year tour in Korea alone. I am actively involved in everything with my wife and kids and it really has helped many things. She did at one point a week ago marvel at my help during this pregnancy and how I am completely different than I used to be.

[Stalwart]

Hey Castle:

"That all changed since returning from my one year tour in Korea alone. I am actively involved in everything with my wife and kids and it really has helped many things. She did at one point a week ago marvel at my help during this pregnancy and how I am completely different than I used to be."That's  awesome Castle and you can’t ask for more than that out of yourself given the situation you’re experienced and are still in.

I can so feel you when you talk about retreating inside a shell to protect yourself. I know the depression, the dissolution, the crippling of so many hopes and the depths of hopelessness – most of us do and have been right there beside you my friend.

I came to a point where I crawled to a corner so far back in that same shell that the darkness was truly horrifying and to look back on the few options I could see at that time; I can say I hope in my life I never return. It took becoming aware of my wife’s illness and the desperateness I was in as a result of 9 years of failure to make that change. That change came from me in the beginning – not her.

They say sometimes when things or situations become so desperate or dark that it truly defines and brings out our own greatest strengths. Hey sometimes we don’t even know we have those strengths until they’re challenged, but you’re military – you know that already Castle.

You have every making of being able to turn around your situation and make it better for you, for your wife and for your kids. It all comes from learning. When you can learn enough that you can truly see your wife through empathetic eyes you can then see beyond the now and what opportunities are there to make so much better for all of you.

It’s really a difficult challenge to pick that glass out of your feet, stand up and start to walk forward after the experience of being having to walk on it so long – all it takes is doing that and taking baby step in a better direction and when you’ve learned more you may just be surprised at how good it feels if you come to a point of being able to run with your life again, especially when you’re able to bring your wife and kids on the run with you.

Just off topic a bit, it’s good to meet someone to thank for their service and stay with the site and the learning tools. There are so many good people here that can really be of service to you in return for yours - because we all share in the same challenges together my friend