Do borderlines ever just end a r/s but not because of their illness ?

[dobie]

Im just wondering if a BPD ever just ends a r/s for normal reasons rather than as a consequence of their mental illness ?

[rotiroti]

Hi dobie, 

I don't think BPD are able to process "normal" reasons. If I've learned anything it's that they're guided by emotion rather than logic

[Surg_Bear]

They do NOTHING "normal."

They are emotional three year olds in adult bodies.

Even if they appear to be normal, they are just mirroring normal behavior.

Surg_Bear

[vortex of confusion]

What do you consider normal?

Whenever I read questions like this I get a bit confused because it seems like the pwBPD isn't being seen as a person but is being seen as a disorder. I think that is doing a huge disservice to everyone involved. If a non says, "I want to break up for X reason." then everyone is supposed to accept that because this person is supposedly "healthy". If a person with BPD or BPD traits says "I want to break up for X reason", then nobody will accept it and it will be analyzed and blamed on the disorder rather than accepting X reason.

People break up for all sorts of reasons. If somebody wants to break up, let them. People on this site continually say, ":)on't JADE." If we aren't supposed to justify, argue, defend, or explain our position, then why in the world do we expect the pwBPD to explain or justify their behavior? And, if they do try to provide an explanation or justification, we aren't going to listen to them anyway because they have some kind of illness. Any reason that they give is going to be dismissed. That is what I am getting out of the responses that I am reading.

It is okay to be upset and angry with your pwBPD. I think it is very dangerous to get in the habit of routinely dismissing anything and everything that a person says, thinks, or feels because they have BPD or suspected BPD.

[Surg_Bear]

It is okay to be upset and angry with your pwBPD. I think it is very dangerous to get in the habit of routinely dismissing anything and everything that a person says, thinks, or feels because they have BPD or suspected BPD.

I find that reading responses to posts here - by moderators and folks who have been around the block to be more dismissive and pathologizing of the "nons."  We are told how our reactions are inappropriate and how we need to avoid "JADE" and to "SET".  We are told we are enabling and co-dependent, and other harmful "labels."

The question was whether a person with BPD can end a relationship for normal reasons. Since a pwBPD can never be in a normal relationship, the answer is no.

If we choose to stay in a relationship with a pwBPD, we have to set aside all expectations of "normal" or "mature". 

I agree that nons tend to dismiss too much as "BPD" without really addressing the core issues at hand. It might be easier to do this, but, and I agree with VOC, altogether harmful.

If anything, I tend to be the opposite. If I see a behavior / statement by my wife to be a pure expression of BPD, I tend to have the opposite reaction- I tend to forgive out of compassion- it comes from something before me, it has precious little to do with me, it is a projection of an unresolved trauma / conflict from her past. It is only when I forget the BPD- when I believe that she is saying this or doing that to me, as an emotionally mature / "normal" person- THAT is when I feel hurt, and need to dismiss or fight for my life. 

I agree that labels are often harmful. Dismissing anyone as a label is wrong- even if the label is "non"

Surg_Bear

[vortex of confusion]

The question was whether a person with BPD can end a relationship for normal reasons. Since a pwBPD can never be in a normal relationship, the answer is no.

What is the reason for wanting to know whether or not a pwBPD can end a relationship for normal reasons?

Words like always and never are generalizations. Saying that a pwBPD can't be in a normal relationship is like saying a non is always in a normal relationship, so their reasons are always normal.

I am not trying to argue with you. I want to provide an alternative perspective.

If we choose to stay in a relationship with a pwBPD, we have to set aside all expectations of "normal" or "mature".

I have a problem with this statement. I think it is because I have a problem with the words normal and mature. Who gets to define those words? Instead of setting a benchmark for the relationship based on words that can be interpreted however one wants, it seems to me to be better to look at "what works for me". Lots of people are in all sorts of relationships for all different sorts of reasons. Lots of nons get into relationships that don't work for whatever reason.

If anything, I tend to be the opposite. If I see a behavior / statement by my wife to be a pure expression of BPD, I tend to have the opposite reaction- I tend to forgive out of compassion- it comes from something before me, it has precious little to do with me, it is a projection of an unresolved trauma / conflict from her past. It is only when I forget the BPD- when I believe that she is saying this or doing that to me, as an emotionally mature / "normal" person- THAT is when I feel hurt, and need to dismiss or fight for my life.

I am having a difficult time articulating what I am thinking as I read this. If this is clumsy, forgive me. What if you were able to not take things personally without thinking about BPD? What if you allowed yourself to feel hurt by the stuff she does without taking it personally? My husband does stuff to me and it hurts. Allowing myself to feel the hurt doesn't mean that I am taking it personally. There are some things that are hurtful no matter who did it. Don't deny your hurt or dismiss it because your wife has BPD.

I have been working with a trauma coach and she is helping me to see that I can look at how things impact me and I can allow myself to feel things without looking at what is going on with my husband. Don't explain it away. Don't blame it on yourself because you allowed it to happen because you are codependent. Some of this stuff is difficult to deal with. Period.

Asking why a borderline ends a relationship is one of those questions that can send you down a rabbit hole of guessing and agonizing. If a pwBPD breaks up with you, look at that individual situation. If it hurts, it hurts. It doesn't matter if the reason for doing it is normal or not. It friggin' hurts. Kind of like stubbing your toe.

[scoutshonor]

To answer the OP question, No i dont think they can break up for a normal reason. If you cheat on them or hurt them they can, but a normal reason? No because their BPD relationship cycle goes so fast... .maybe one week they are looking long term and you are so better than the last... .

Then afterwords all the wierd BPD issues come up and they break up and call u back and break up and call u back... .

[FannyB]

Hi Dobie

During the early stages of my relationship, when I was firmly on a pedestal,  I asked her if there was anything that could split us up and she replied 'infidelity'. So if I had cheated then I assume that would have terminated the relationship (and rightly so). What I don't know is, as she 'loved' me so much during idealization, whether she would have forgiven me?

Scoutshonor alluded to the inevitability of the BPD cycle - maybe it works the other way and overlooks bad behaviour early on in the cycle? 

Fanny

[once removed]

"I find that reading responses to posts here - by moderators and folks who have been around the block to be more dismissive and pathologizing of the "nons."  We are told how our reactions are inappropriate and how we need to avoid "JADE" and to "SET".  We are told we are enabling and co-dependent, and other harmful "labels."

im not here to tell anyone any of that, but what could be wrong with listening to folks who have "been around the block"? and what could be wrong with employing a tried and true method like SET?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201303/secrets-set-supportempathytruth-statements

randi kreger has authored one of the most famous BPD resources, stop walking on egg shells. it isnt just bpdfamily or bpdfamily staff that recommends it. and its the kind of communication skill that can help you in any relationship, with a pwBPD or otherwise. avoiding invalidating statements has improved many of my friendships, none of which involve BPD.

https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/04.htm

SET recognizes that we are the only ones we can control. again, thats useful in any relationship.

as for the original question, i think vortex said it well:

"Words like always and never are generalizations."

"Who gets to define those words?"

"What do you consider normal?" (many members have been through repeated unhealthy relationships, and i am one of them)

"I get a bit confused because it seems like the pwBPD isn't being seen as a person but is being seen as a disorder... .then nobody will accept it and it will be analyzed and blamed on the disorder rather than accepting X reason."

in my case, my ex seeking the partner that came after me, directly correlated with me withdrawing and willingly spending several weeks apart. that doesnt justify her behavior, but it informs it, and partly helps explain it. is that a "normal reason"? i know its not at all unique to a pwBPD. and maybe it was justified. if my partner neglected me like that, i wouldnt stick around either. in future relationships, whether staying, undecided, or leaving, i have a new found interest in not repeating that dynamic.

staying, undecided, leaving, theyre all very personal decisions, and the lessons on each board apply to each situation. one underlying theme is that responsibility resides in ourselves. again, we are the only ones we can control. learning to accept others, BPD or not, as autonomous, unique individuals, is a valuable lesson that can serve us in any relationship.

[dobie]

Hi Dobie

During the early stages of my relationship, when I was firmly on a pedestal,  I asked her if there was anything that could split us up and she replied 'infidelity'. So if I had cheated then I assume that would have terminated the relationship (and rightly so). What I don't know is, as she 'loved' me so much during idealization, whether she would have forgiven me?

Scoutshonor alluded to the inevitability of the BPD cycle - maybe it works the other way and overlooks bad behaviour early on in the cycle?  

Fanny

I was told frequently " I would never leave you " not that I asked or "how we are meant to be together" to then hear just before the discard in an annoyed tone  "urghh when have I ever left you "


Then after the BU was told she had not been in love for over a year

"And how we are not meant to be"

I still don't know if she left because of some of the valid   reasons she gave or because she is BPD

I don't think I will ever know