Do pwBPD exhibit more severe symptoms with each failed r/s?

[search4peace]

I'm not sure if this a fair question, as one would have to date the same person twice in a row to really know!

Still, I was curious what people thought in terms of the progression of symptoms.  I have read that BPD symptoms generally decline with age.  However, I can imagine that with each b/u, with each failed r/s, with each abandonment, the BPD perception of self sinks lower, their impatience at finding someone to attach to grows shorter, and their manipulative/controlling behaviors grow more extreme.

or perhaps not... .

[mywifecrazy]

Good question. Would be interested if anyone could answer this who might have had some experience.

[hurting300]

It depends on the person with BPD. My ex for example, treats every man the same. At the end when she's provoked you to death and back she "cuts the cord"...

[ThanksForPlaying]

Nope. It doesn't get more severe. In fact, like you said, it tends to lessen into older age. That doesn't mean it can't fluctuate from relationship to relationship. And it doesn't mean you might not be a major trigger that makes it worse than the previous relationship. Either way, it's not fun to deal with.

[Invictus01]

I think there is no logic to it and the only thing that matters is how severely you trigger her fears. The closer you get to her, the weirder flip out you will experience.

[once removed]

it varies. being a stickler for language, i dont feel confident saying "BPD symptoms generally remit with age." some BPD symptoms may remit with age. depends on the symptoms and the person. this is true for all of us. a person might no longer meet the diagnostic criteria for BPD, yet some symptoms, and/or the root of the problem, could certainly get worse. hope this helps.

[Turkish]

Speaking of my Ex, she's better with the new guy, though her diagnosed depression is always lurking. She is self aware enough that she even told me she learned some things, and is being a better partner to the OM. As much as it burns, I'm glad for the sake of our kids. She's a better mom than she was in the last year with me.

For my mom? She acknowledges she is dBPD. It took my r/s and discussions with her to finally come out. She's 73. Though I thought that she was better, she recently was assaulted by some scumbag she invited onto her property to help her out. Though she's aware, her boundaries and judgement of people still lack. And I can't help but wonder how much her tendency to split people she "rescues" contributed to the conflict.

[enlighten me]

I think a number of things are at play and each pwBPD is an individual.

Firstly I have read that some pwBPD can go into remitance with age. A number have said this happened post menopause.

Secondly I believe they learn so some of the more outrageous behaviours are tempered. This would appear as improvement but is just adapting.

Thirdly I think that it depends on their enviroment. If they are with someone with strong boundaries then they can appear to be more stable but you just dont know whats going on beneath the surface.

[hurting300]

The psychologists we hired for court testified they do not "get better with age". Most of the time. It all depends on the person...

[search4peace]

Thank you all... .very helpful input.

I ask mostly because of my pre-menopausal exuBPDgf.  Although I can now see her symptoms clearly with 3yr time-compressed 20/20 hindsight, her strange off-putting behaviors (= flags) were doled out slowly and at long intervals, to the point where I could never really convince myself she was crazy/manipuative/untrustworthy enough to walk away.  She seemed only slightly disordered most of the time, so who was I to judge her individual quirks.  I regard this as a dangerously silent but deadly form of BPD... .acting just sane enough to keep me enmeshed and willing to continue my co-dependent role of giving her what she needed while I asked for little/nothing in return except her unshaken view of me as her white knight.  I deeply wish she had been more extreme in her overt behaviors (raging, lying, cheating, etc), as I would have been done, but I suspect she knew that so she probably adapted accordingly.  So treacherous, it makes me sick to my stomach.

I believe that if I had enforced firmer boundaries, we would either have separated after 2months or would have been engaged by now (most likely the former).

[Tim300]

I'm not sure if this a fair question, as one would have to date the same person twice in a row to really know!

Still, I was curious what people thought in terms of the progression of symptoms.  I have read that BPD symptoms generally decline with age.  However, I can imagine that with each b/u, with each failed r/s, with each abandonment, the BPD perception of self sinks lower, their impatience at finding someone to attach to grows shorter, and their manipulative/controlling behaviors grow more extreme.

or perhaps not... .

This is a good question.  My guess is that their ability to maintain intense romantic relationships definitely gets worse for the exact reason you described.  

In a more general sense, as far as whether BPD symptoms generally decline with age, there have been at least a few very good threads here on this topic.  I don't want to speak for others, but from my reading of all the threads, people's experiences here seem crystal clear to me -- it doesn't get better with age.  This seems to be the overwhelming consensus.

There are some assertions about BPD that get thrown about in some of the BPD literature that I don't agree with.  And this is one of those points.  Yes, some (certainly not most) BPD materials suggest that BPD symptoms decline with age.  But my belief is that this is nothing more than wishful thinking (just like some other assertions about BPD that I don't agree with).  Part of the supposed belief that BPD declines with age may be based on some empirical studies that suggest this.  Yet one must think critically about these studies.  BPD is not something that is easy to measure.  For example, just how do you measure whether the person keeps painting friends black and white?  Like you suggest, you literally might have to date the person a second time to know.  Easily measurable metrics might include tallying incidents of cutting.  However, many pwBPD never engage in cutting.  And those who seek treatment for cutting (and thus can be measured for it) are part of a small self-selected group that is determined to change their behavior (many of the worst-case pwBPD will never dedicate themselves like this).

As far as my personal experience goes, my BPDex-fiancee's mother is almost certainly a very strong textbook case of BPD (I'll spare you all of her life details).  She was in her 50s throughout the time I interacted with her.  She acted like a 5 year old.  I could go on and on with all the Cluster B nonsense she got herself into.  Fortunately, she physically let herself go and I think given her physical appearance and her general position in life she would find it almost impossible to attract a suitor to inflict BPD symptoms on (both of her ex husbands seemed to have gone NC on her).  So, her BPD symptoms declined in terms of inflicting relationship trauma on someone.  However, her BPD symptoms were always right there with her.  She would push and pull her daughter (my fiancee); she would paint people black and white; etc.  And she would take a trip to the ER every 6 months or so just for sport because of her latest fake or exaggerated illness -- a classic "münchausen syndrome" play that seems to be fairly common in aging persons with BPD who want to create attention but no longer have a romantic partner to dramatize over.

Think independently and critically about the nature of BPD.  :)o you think BPD is a manifestation of a brain malfunction/imbalance?  If your answer is yes (mine is), why would this malfunction/imbalance just fade away?  My logic, my gut, my experience, and my readings of stories on these boards indicate to me that the BPD symptoms are alive and kicking straight through until one's last breath.  And I do think that in many cases it just gets worse and worse as all of the accumulated trauma builds and and the pwBPD doesn't understand why he/she is having so much difficulty with others -- and the pwBPD only becomes more skillful in the underhanded behavior.  Sorry to disappoint wishful thinkers.  These are just my unfettered thoughts, trying to be as objective as possible.  I do not wish to offend.  I only wish to have open, constructive dialogue.    

[Hawk Ridge]

It is my understanding the condition remains acute but some of the physical acting out (ie., cutting) reduces due to lower energy levels, that the emotional dysregulations continues.   At times, I go into my shame place that she will succeed with her next partner but I have to let go of that and love myself.  We are in our early 50's.

[NonBPDEx]

 At times, I go into my shame place that she will succeed with her next partner but I have to let go of that and love myself.  We are in our early 50's.

Yes, and yes to this. I can relate.

[enlighten me]

Hi Tim

I also believe that BPD and most PDs are due to a brain malfunction/ imbalance. If this is the case then I believe in some cases it may subside due to a major change such as menopause. There have been numerous threads where people have said the symptoms dissapeared during pregnancy. Many others stating that the behaviour got worse. If this is the case then hormonal changes seem to have a positive effect in some. Some pwBPD said they improved post menopause. Others have said that HRT helped them. This though seems to be a minority.

I agree that in most cases its not likely they will mellow with age. The most likely scenario is that they will settle for someone willing to put up with them and continue with their behaviour.

[Dutched]

I am convinced it will get worse, posted it earlier today as it was confirmed again.

The next one might fit better, being different and maybe even better ‘suited’ for that dynamic.

The exBPD brings along their personality… (yep, that one…) into their new r/s, that won’t change, despite mirroring the next one.

But you know what? Most of it is covered behind doors, you can’t have a peek behind that door, unless it is opened now and then, that’s all.

Depending on the spectrum, some will continue to have short term relationships, others will try to establish a long r/s again, however stay out of pure neediness and deep shame to end a r/s again (people might wonder), special towards family and their social circle. Living the same unfulfilling life again with universal ‘the best ever happened to me’.

Think independently and critically about the nature of BPD.  :)o you think BPD is a manifestation of a brain malfunction/imbalance?  If your answer is yes (mine is), why would this malfunction/imbalance just fade away?  My logic, my gut, my experience, and my readings of stories on these boards indicate to me that the BPD symptoms are alive and kicking straight through until one's last breath.  And I do think that in many cases it just gets worse and worse as all of the accumulated trauma builds and and the pwBPD doesn't understand why he/she is having so much difficulty with others -- and the pwBPD only becomes more skillful in the underhanded behavior.  Sorry to disappoint wishful thinkers.  These are just my unfettered thoughts, trying to be as objective as possible.  I do not wish to offend.  I only wish to have open, constructive dialogue.    

I fully agree.

# it is a disorder, that won’t vanish with some one else. That volcano will erupt, just look at your r/s with ex.

# Scientific survey shows a genetic cause of a 42%

# All clinical data available concluding that which age the BPD gets ‘better’, become dormant, is solely based on the population of patients once treated for the disorder.

Most, maybe even all, patients as mentioned weren’t able to function well in society.

However one must be diagnosed first. Not diagnosed, means no data available. How many of the (ex)partners on this board are diagnosed?

Further, applicable for me and others over here after a long r/s with exw around 45 and above,

a part of a text I found

Abrupt departures during mid-life are particularly significant, because while she could have been exhibiting borderline symptoms for decades, these may become far more pronounced during marked hormonal changes, such as pre- or peri-menopause, which can easily catalyze more acting-out behaviours.

Experienced that one, kind of dormant for decades, then a fully blown the last decade, untill the abrupt departue.