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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: I'm n looking for any moral compass here... just understanding  (Read 604 times)
stoic83
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« on: June 29, 2015, 05:53:15 PM »

Dear friends,

It's been a while since I've posted. Last time we talked, I was dealing with a pregnancy entrapment with a woman I was briefly seeing that has since gone psycho. Turns out the child is biologically mine. She's really cute and healthy, but I can't develop any feelings for her.

The mother is a pathological liar, bringing nazi men around the child, and together her and her ex husband (ironically, but not so ironically in BPD land) are libeling me all over the internet... .stating that I have stds, and am a deadbeat dad. They have used my name and information to sign me up for all sorts of email marketing campaigns, prank phone called me, and just terrorized me about the child support... .scaring me wtih jail, making fake calls from masked numbers.(eg child support office, etc). I am already paying and even gave her money before the birth to alleviate any stress that would cause her to become dysregulated. That didn't work. Now she seems content on not working and living off of me and the dole... .probably along with her ex-husband, part of me thinks they planned this together... .to use me as a paying sperm donor. He is a psychopath and broadcasts it all over his social networking page, with faces of clowns, nazis, racist photos, etc... .then i see a picture today of her, him, and this child... .a half-jewish child... .and I know it was just meant to hurt me. I wanted to call CPS... .but I know I will just get laughed at, make things worse.

On another note, I went to the birth and I felt something for the child... .but it's not enough to have to deal with this nutjob and her psycho family for the rest of my life. I have stayed emotionally detatched out of self-preservation. I'm not going to throw my life down the toilet for this child, though I wish I could and it would actually end up happy. Chances are good this child has an abnormal psychology due to her  mother, and the fact that her father (suicide) was bipolar, and her sister is also bipolar. There is a lot of sadism in this gene pool... .it makes no sense to me, but they are just sadistic people... .want to destroy me for fun? I can't imagine a child avoiding this type of brainwashing and poor modeling... .but I know there are a lot of optimistic co-parents out there... .maybe I just am not one of them... .or don't care to have my heart jerked around by this awful woman and her awful family... .they are like hyenas... .just venomous.  

At the same time, I feel so devastated at the loss of this child. Much like a woman who has an abortion or a couple that gives their child up for adoption, there is nothing I can do. To make matters worse, I'm going to be paying for the majority of it... .and there's not a whole lot I can do. Even if I had 100k, i don't think i would waste it on a custody battle that would only entangle me even more with this wretched woman and her evil family. I had to move away to preserve my own sanity, job, etc... .and in that, I will have very little visitaiton or authority in this child's life. I'm a paying sperm donor... .and it makes me feel like scum in a million different ways, even though I am told it's not my fault by DV advocates and therapists.

But the libel, the constant harassment, anonymous texts from her mother, posting my address online, breaking in to my house and deleting all of my emails. I got the police involved, but the apartment complex never gave them the security footage after I left... .quite possible because the woman who worked there probably got manipulated by her and let in to my apartment, and they don't want a lawsuit... .it's too much for me to handle.

I am in deep emotional pain all of the time... .and I need to be NC. And I am probably going to get dragged in to court/mediation... .and I just want to hide/be left alone. I'm not a coward. I just can't beat the system. If I could just bop her over the head and take the child, I would... .that's how primal it is. I don't want to be a single father in a lose/lose situation. i don't want to have any communication with this woman or her family, and I know she is going to corrupt this child and there isn't a whole lot I can do about it.

I am paying her informal child support... .and trying to stay no contact. It's hard with all the psychological terror, and trying to keep myself from caring about the child. I told her I could come visit if she stopped harassing me for 10 days... .she couldn't even make it 3. Stalking me online... .and launching a distortion campaign. Telling me that I'm abusive and she fears for the child's safety one day, and that she loves me so much the next. My message to her is steadily the same. I don't want to be with her, I didn't want to have a child with her, I don't want to pay for her to raise a child, and I think she is a very sick woman and needs mental help for the good of the child. As coldhearted as all this might make me sound/seem I promise it's the contrary... .I would care too much to be involved. This woman knows exactly how to hurt me and I can tell she can't wait for me to develop feelings for the child so she can destroy me with that as well... .she just seems intent on destroying me, much more than BPD at play here.

In any case, not looking for any moral compass here about how I should get emotionally involved. It will kill me if I do. I'm looking for understanding, and anyone who can help me cope with this... .I do hope that later on down the road I can be healthily involved, but right now my family and counselor advocates for strict NC... .and it's hard, especially with all the legal/financial leverage this woman has over me... .it's a non-stop nightmare.

I love this child, but it will just have to be from very far away... .and she could very well grow up to hate me and think I'm a pile of ___... .while I pay for every aspect of her life and her mother's comforts out of "obligation". The BPD witch won't even let me give the money. Won't even let me feel like I can help that way... .I am disturbed on a holy and profound level. I hope I will ever be close to the same as I was before this happened.

Stoic
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2015, 06:27:24 PM »

Well, first let me say that I'm sorry for the whole situation.  However, your negativity may be overmuch, things may not be as bad as you think.  Court will usually bend over backwards to ensure a father can have at least some contact with his child.  It may not be fair but it's something.  Of course, you would have to be proactive enough to document the behaviors well - your good ones and her bad ones.

So... .Documentation is both your ammunition and your defense against her attacks and smears.  It won't go perfectly but at least you ought to be able to limit the damage.

Understand that if you don't have a court order ordering child support, then almost certainly any money you give now will be viewed as just that, a Gift and not Child Support.  I'm not saying you don't pay anything but don't pay more than the court is likely to order.  You probably won't get extra credit from the court if you pay extra.  Court personnel work there 8 hours a day, their job isn't to empathize.

Courts in your state might work differently but if you were in my state then my experience was... .  Your support before she filed in court would be voluntary and largely ignored as to credits or debits.  Once the case was filed with the court then the clock starts ticking and later on the court could sock you with retroactive CS.  So if it is filed then, after confirming what to do in legal consultations, you would stop paying until the temp order was issued.  Why?  The court could order retroactive CS and any money given after filing but before order would probably be viewed as a Gift in the court's eyes.  So please avoid paying double.

Pattern:   Ordered = Payment        Not ordered = Gift

So during that time waiting on the court to get its act together, it might be wise to stop Gifting, "ExGf, With a case now filed I will have to wait for the court to determine a scheduled payment amount.  It's in the court's hands as we work through the process and I will follow its instructions."

The person behaving poorly seldom has Consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets Credit.

This is not to say your consistent good actions won't be taken into consideration, hopefully they will be eventually, the point is not to expect too much from the system.  For you it's your life, for them it's another day at work.

If they're alleging you have diseases, then get testing and keep the paperwork as proof you're not infectious.  If they're harassing, then find ways to document it and then report it to the police.  Even if nothing is done, you'll have the paper trail with the authorities that you can use later.

Let me encourage you to be less extreme/dramatic in the way you document and present information to the professionals.  Using too much extreme negativity (nazi men, psychopath, demon, witch, whatever) may turn off some professionals that will get involved with the case as time goes on. You don't want them thinking you're part of the problem.  If the facts are dramatic or extreme, then okay to use them but don't let them feel you're exaggerating or overreacting.
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stoic83
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 12:14:21 AM »

Well, first let me say that I'm sorry for the whole situation.  However, your negativity may be overmuch, things may not be as bad as you think.  Court will usually bend over backwards to ensure a father can have at least some contact with his child.  It may not be fair but it's something.  Of course, you would have to be proactive enough to document the behaviors well - your good ones and her bad ones.

So... .Documentation is both your ammunition and your defense against her attacks and smears.  It won't go perfectly but at least you ought to be able to limit the damage.

Understand that if you don't have a court order ordering child support, then almost certainly any money you give now will be viewed as just that, a Gift and not Child Support.  I'm not saying you don't pay anything but don't pay more than the court is likely to order.  You probably won't get extra credit from the court if you pay extra.  Court personnel work there 8 hours a day, their job isn't to empathize.

Courts in your state might work differently but if you were in my state then my experience was... .  Your support before she filed in court would be voluntary and largely ignored as to credits or debits.  Once the case was filed with the court then the clock starts ticking and later on the court could sock you with retroactive CS.  So if it is filed then, after confirming what to do in legal consultations, you would stop paying until the temp order was issued.  Why?  The court could order retroactive CS and any money given after filing but before order would probably be viewed as a Gift in the court's eyes.  So please avoid paying double.

Pattern:   Ordered = Payment        Not ordered = Gift

So during that time waiting on the court to get its act together, it might be wise to stop Gifting, "ExGf, With a case now filed I will have to wait for the court to determine a scheduled payment amount.  It's in the court's hands as we work through the process and I will follow its instructions."

The person behaving poorly seldom has Consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets Credit.

This is not to say your consistent good actions won't be taken into consideration, hopefully they will be eventually, the point is not to expect too much from the system.  For you it's your life, for them it's another day at work.

If they're alleging you have diseases, then get testing and keep the paperwork as proof you're not infectious.  If they're harassing, then find ways to document it and then report it to the police.  Even if nothing is done, you'll have the paper trail with the authorities that you can use later.

Let me encourage you to be less extreme/dramatic in the way you document and present information to the professionals.  Using too much extreme negativity (nazi men, psychopath, demon, witch, whatever) may turn off some professionals that will get involved with the case as time goes on. You don't want them thinking you're part of the problem.  If the facts are dramatic or extreme, then okay to use them but don't let them feel you're exaggerating or overreacting.

Foreverdad, I appreciate the advice. I do not believe that I am as level headed as you are, but I am telling you that I have to cut off all contact for my own well being. These people have made me not want to live anymore. A year of terror and harassment, and it is dramatic for me because I have been harassed non-stop every day in a multitude of ways for a year straight, and it's driving me mad, so I wouldn't be surprised if I seemed off-kliter. It's unfortunate that I am so badly damaged that I am not capable of even defending myself, that's the problem. I can't get a clear head. There's too many ways to harass someone in this day and age. It's torture. Like someone flicking your forehead over and over. You try and act sane... .calm cool and collected.
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 12:59:27 AM »

Stoic,

Please know I feel for you. I felt your pain and hopelessness in all you said. I am just a lowly step mother here, with a sd that is stuck with a crazy BPDm.

She has harassed me, stalked me, vandalized my home and autos,and written the most horrible things on the internet about me, posted my personal info on the internet and much more. I truly know how you feel. These people are crazy and unsafe. I've been miserable ever since this crazy monster came into my life.

It's been very difficult to watch what mom puts child through for her ego, revenge, who knows why she does it?

I have felt that lately we would be kinder parents to give SD to mom full time than to watch mom tear this child in half. I believe the poor girl is close to a psychotic break. But mom is only encouraged to keep it up, she does jot even care for her own child. I tell you these things so you know I get you.

I understand not having it in you to be drug into this psycho world over a baby that would eventually end up being used as a pawn to hurt you further. It seems safer to move away and hope they move on.

I believe you are right about that.

But I also feel that in good conscience you must at least try to have a conversation with CPS, tell them you aren't trying to get the child for yourself, that she can be put up for adoption. But that you have grave concerns about these people as care givers. Tell them you are not going to stick around to see what happens but that you want to at least go on the record if it ever comes up, or if they show mercy on the baby and look into her situation that someone tried to get the truth to the right people.

I agree, court, attorneys and all that well over $200 thousand has been spent by us in less than two years. It's disgusting. Her mother cares not at all that that money could have provided her daughter a bright future. She only cares about her victim hood, winning her imagined battle.

I'm so sorry this happened. Write your daughter a letter. Leave it to her in your will. Now is the best time to formulate it. You aren't ever going to be more clear about what you are unable to do and why. Years may fade the pain. She will need to know what you were feeling when you decided to walk away.

I know many people here will not understand, but I get it. There is no judgement, you are in survival mode. You should be. In some ways, it may sound odd to say, but I envy your bravery. I don't know if I could stomach the guilt of walking away, but I feel so unhappy having to put up with the ugliness, the crazy unpredictable hater that calls herself the "mother of the year", is ruining my life.

Best of luck, I hope things turn out the way they are supposed to somehow.
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« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2015, 10:01:14 AM »

Stoic,

Please know I feel for you. I felt your pain and hopelessness in all you said. I am just a lowly step mother here, with a sd that is stuck with a crazy BPDm.

She has harassed me, stalked me, vandalized my home and autos,and written the most horrible things on the internet about me, posted my personal info on the internet and much more. I truly know how you feel. These people are crazy and unsafe. I've been miserable ever since this crazy monster came into my life.

It's been very difficult to watch what mom puts child through for her ego, revenge, who knows why she does it?

I have felt that lately we would be kinder parents to give SD to mom full time than to watch mom tear this child in half. I believe the poor girl is close to a psychotic break. But mom is only encouraged to keep it up, she does jot even care for her own child. I tell you these things so you know I get you.

I understand not having it in you to be drug into this psycho world over a baby that would eventually end up being used as a pawn to hurt you further. It seems safer to move away and hope they move on.

I believe you are right about that.

But I also feel that in good conscience you must at least try to have a conversation with CPS, tell them you aren't trying to get the child for yourself, that she can be put up for adoption. But that you have grave concerns about these people as care givers. Tell them you are not going to stick around to see what happens but that you want to at least go on the record if it ever comes up, or if they show mercy on the baby and look into her situation that someone tried to get the truth to the right people.

I agree, court, attorneys and all that well over $200 thousand has been spent by us in less than two years. It's disgusting. Her mother cares not at all that that money could have provided her daughter a bright future. She only cares about her victim hood, winning her imagined battle.

I'm so sorry this happened. Write your daughter a letter. Leave it to her in your will. Now is the best time to formulate it. You aren't ever going to be more clear about what you are unable to do and why. Years may fade the pain. She will need to know what you were feeling when you decided to walk away.

I know many people here will not understand, but I get it. There is no judgement, you are in survival mode. You should be. In some ways, it may sound odd to say, but I envy your bravery. I don't know if I could stomach the guilt of walking away, but I feel so unhappy having to put up with the ugliness, the crazy unpredictable hater that calls herself the "mother of the year", is ruining my life.

Best of luck, I hope things turn out the way they are supposed to somehow.

Thank you so much for your letter. I am so tired of being judged and morally condescended by others.

I spent about 8-10 hours compiling information for CPS, and spoke with them on the phone. I sent it over on Tuesday night. It's so emotional to continue to have to keep going over how this happened, what this woman and her entire family has done to me to drive me out of the child's life. And how I think the best interests of the child are served by being in a loving adoptive home with plenty of resources.

Would I rather pay for this child to be raised by psychopaths, or have this child raised by loving/intact family without paying?

Honestly, I would pay twice as much child support to an adoptive family just so I'd know she was being raised in an emotionally safe environment. Being ":)isneyland Dad" is not going to do anything other than put me in line for more psychological/emotional abuse, this time using my tender feelings for a child to hurt me instead of money/reputation/self-esteem. Whatever she knows she can use to hurt me, or make me submissive... .she will do.

I'd just much rather her be adopted, then pay for her to be raised in a toxic environment.


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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2015, 10:29:18 AM »

Thank you so much for your letter. I am so tired of being judged and morally condescended by others.

I can appreciate this. Let's have an adult conversation then  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Can we drop all the demons and monster talk? Completely and totally. 

This is a serious situation and you need serious advice. 




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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2015, 12:01:07 PM »

Thank you so much for your letter. I am so tired of being judged and morally condescended by others.

I can appreciate this. Let's have an adult conversation then  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Can we drop all the demons and monster talk? Completely and totally. 

This is a serious situation and you need serious advice. 

Sure. I honestly thought that was a little condescending, despite you quoting me asking for no condescension... .

Let me break it down for you.

The ex-husbands facebook page consists of bloody clowns, one with feces in his mouth, pictures of hitler and jesus, talking about buring my mother in an oven. He talks about being mentally ill and self-medicating with alcohol, and has pictures of psychokillers on his page.

This woman has muttered things under her breath such as: "I take what I want". "I'm going to push my dog off a balcony" "My ex-husband came to the baby shower and said he wanted to buy her a "pink gas mask" (and then emails me photos of the child and him together).

The other man she lived with during her pregnancy has a  "welcome to the macbre" photo on his facebook page. She and him filed mutual restraining against one another, and he is clearly mentally ill.

So the "monsters and demons" talk is directly related to the face that people she surrounds herself with admire monsters and demons, and try to emulate them in to their day-to-day life creating fear and terror in others for fun. I guarantee you that you have never been surrounded by an entire group of PD individuals terrorizing you non-stop. There is nothing you can do about it without worsening the problem, or hurting yourself even more... .(name change, etc)

This family is a group of highly dysfunctional/demented individuals... .and their targets are set on me 24/7, because none of them work (the mother of the child, her ex-husband, her mother, or her sister). I've tried to make it work somehow, was in counseling, my counselor knew the mother's problems (BPD) and what she has done to me and has suggested that I never communicate with the mother again, and that this is a tragedy, but that I will not be able to have a relationship with the child unless the mother gets treatment for BPD and that is highly unlikely.

This is because the constant harassment and calculated cruelty has become a danger to my entire life and it needs to stop. Sometimes in life you just run in to the wrong people.

What else can I do besides notify the authorities that I feel she is in a high risk situation?


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« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015, 12:16:49 PM »

The ex-husbands facebook page consists of bloody clowns, one with feces in his mouth, pictures of hitler and jesus, talking about buring my mother in an oven. He talks about being mentally ill and self-medicating with alcohol, and has pictures of psychokillers on his page.

This woman has muttered things under her breath such as: "I take what I want". "I'm going to push my dog off a balcony" "My ex-husband came to the baby shower and said he wanted to buy her a "pink gas mask" (and then emails me photos of the child and him together).

The other man she lived with during her pregnancy has a  "welcome to the macbre" photo on his facebook page. She and him filed mutual restraining against one another, and he is clearly mentally ill.

This paints a picture. Dark crowd. I don't here arrests. I think we can all follow.

I've tried to make it work somehow, was in counseling, my counselor knew the mother's problems (BPD) and what she has done to me and has suggested that I never communicate with the mother again, and that this is a tragedy, but that I will not be able to have a relationship with the child unless the mother gets treatment for BPD and that is highly unlikely.

You've decided this when you were posting before, correct?  You were walking away from the child, the mother, the family. Did you then try to engage?  I know you said you were at the birth.

This is because the constant harassment and calculated cruelty has become a danger to my entire life and it needs to stop.

What are is being done to you? By whom?

What is it that you feel most conflicted about (what is #1)?



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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2015, 03:22:16 PM »

The ex-husbands facebook page consists of bloody clowns, one with feces in his mouth, pictures of hitler and jesus, talking about buring my mother in an oven. He talks about being mentally ill and self-medicating with alcohol, and has pictures of psychokillers on his page.

This woman has muttered things under her breath such as: "I take what I want". "I'm going to push my dog off a balcony" "My ex-husband came to the baby shower and said he wanted to buy her a "pink gas mask" (and then emails me photos of the child and him together).

The other man she lived with during her pregnancy has a  "welcome to the macbre" photo on his facebook page. She and him filed mutual restraining against one another, and he is clearly mentally ill.

This paints a picture. Dark crowd. I don't here arrests. I think we can all follow.

I've tried to make it work somehow, was in counseling, my counselor knew the mother's problems (BPD) and what she has done to me and has suggested that I never communicate with the mother again, and that this is a tragedy, but that I will not be able to have a relationship with the child unless the mother gets treatment for BPD and that is highly unlikely.

You've decided this when you were posting before, correct?  You were walking away from the child, the mother, the family. Did you then try to engage?  I know you said you were at the birth.

This is because the constant harassment and calculated cruelty has become a danger to my entire life and it needs to stop.

What are is being done to you? By whom?

What is it that you feel most conflicted about (what is #1)?


A steady drumbeat of unwanted contact, both malicious, and her just trying to cover her own ass. Manipulating me in to conversations, and creating circular arguments, and no-win situations. Using things that I care about to upset me in a sadistic manner... .e.g. sending me an email with a photo of the child with her ex-husband, (but acting like it was accidental), sending me parenting plans for abusers, posting taunting on her facebook page (such as buying elaborate/unneccesary items with a winky face and her mother approving it), emailing me every single day and acting like she's trying to involve me with "velvet gloves", in the meantime posting my full name, address, photos, and libel about me having stds and being a womanizer, so that everyone can see who searchs me on google... .but she has a paper trail of acting like "mary poppins". Her behavior is extremely manipulative.

I told her I would come visit if she could not contact me for 10 days, and she couldn't even go 2-3 without cyber-harassment... .she's completely out of control with her harassing/stalking vindictive behavior.

#1) May be that I feel physically sick every time i see her name, hear her voice, or think of her coming to my new place (she has my address that she stole out of my phone when she broke in to my old apartment, and posted it publicly to taunt me/intimidate me)

The level of frustration, anxiety and heartbreak this behavior creates for me on an almost daily basis is debilitating... .it makes it hard for me to focus on my work, and I have a demanding position that doesn't allow for me to be constantly upset and emotionally exhausted. I'm very sensitive towards children, and this situation is so messed up that I'm having a hard time with it.

What creates the heartbreak? Just the toxicity of the entire situation... .I am a part of a child being brought in to a terrible situation and the mother seems to hold most of the cards, and I feel helpless.

The dissonance I feel from trying to stay emotionally detatched (out of self-preservation and to avoid feeding the negative conflict) but still care about my biological daughter and be bombarded with photos, unwanted contact from the mother, and the idea that I'm being "bad", is severe... .and when the mother uses that to continue to hurt me on a regular basis... .and I haven't been able to block her out, I can't be level headed about things. It's just a very upsetting situation and it's very painful for me, and this experience has been hitting my emotional pain tolerance on a regular basis... .to the point of me being worn out.

I don't want any ties to these people, but I still want to do what I can to try and improve this child's situation, without making the same mistake that so many people do of attempting to co-parent with an untreated PD, since I am in a unique position of being the biological father.

Feeling taken advantage of/abused and having it rubbed in my face, and using my feelings and fears to poke at the parts that hurt the most... .

I'm already feeling a little better... .when ever i've had 3 or 4 days of really light harassment from her, I start to feel better and then something terrible usually happens.

So I'm hoping now, that if I do not react... .she will grow tired of pestering me and potentially focus on something else.


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