Why Are We/Were We Attracted To Them?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Summer Storm,

    That's interesting you mention that.

3yrs and I really have no idea if my exBPD even had any interests other than me.  She liked video games. She enjoyed the fantasy ones (ha ha) and liked nature and hiking.

But the latter I just assumed that was normal as she's a lesbian.

.

But we never discussed her goals, her loves her dreams.

Because they were all MINE. She will mimic the same with my replacement.  She told me the final time we spoke that she is in love with this person and they are so "deep" she has never had a physical and emotional connection with someone like this before. 

Yes, mine loves video games.  When she isn't watching video games, she gets on YouTube and watches videos about video games.  The funny thing is, mine once criticized me for immersing myself in fantasy literature and TV shows because I find reality too difficult to deal with.  This was a few days before she tried to commit suicide.  In reality, I read fantasy literature, but I also read many other genres (I'm an English teacher), and I watch the same fantasy TV shows that pretty much everyone else in America watches.  Generally speaking, I spend about 85% of my time either working, running, or hiking, so I wouldn't say I try to escape life by reading/watching fantasy.  She sure does, though.   

[SummerStorm]

Summer Storm,

    That's interesting you mention that.

3yrs and I really have no idea if my exBPD even had any interests other than me.  She liked video games. She enjoyed the fantasy ones (ha ha) and liked nature and hiking.

But the latter I just assumed that was normal as she's a lesbian.

.

But we never discussed her goals, her loves her dreams.

Because they were all MINE. She will mimic the same with my replacement.  She told me the final time we spoke that she is in love with this person and they are so "deep" she has never had a physical and emotional connection with someone like this before. 

Yes, mine loves video games.  When she isn't watching video games, she gets on YouTube and watches videos about video games.  The funny thing is, mine once criticized me for immersing myself in fantasy literature and TV shows because I find reality too difficult to deal with.  This was a few days before she tried to commit suicide.  In reality, I read fantasy literature, but I also read many other genres (I'm an English teacher), and I watch the same fantasy TV shows that pretty much everyone else in America watches.  Generally speaking, I spend about 85% of my time either working, running, or hiking, so I wouldn't say I try to escape life by reading/watching fantasy.  She sure does, though.   

[Sunfl0wer]

But we never discussed her goals, her loves her dreams.

Pretty Woman,

I think this is brilliant! 

I have read many posts re what to look for in a potential partner.  I do not recall coming across this one... .yet it is perfect and needs to be added to my list!

Some people look to eliminate potential partners by looking for red flags.

Now others of us on here will tell you that those flags... .really were not visible, not waving, hidden until a year or more had passed.  (I'm one such person)

However, I believe that any person without a clear sense of self concept and self worth... .will have a very difficult time telling you what their hopes are for their future.

Now that is not to say that every person who cannot tell you where they will be in 10 years from now will be unsuitable as a partner... .they can have other unpredictable elements in their future that they anticipate, or other reasons this is difficult.  However, I do believe the way they answer this fundamental question... .can give a person some good and useful insight... .if we listen well enough.  (The question of... .where do you see yourself in 5-10 yrs?  What are your hopes, dreams?)

[Pretty Woman]

Sunflower,

   Yeah that was the weirdest thing. I never really thought about it and when I did I asked one of her exes who I am friends with.

Same thing. She never discussed anything future oriented at all. Probably because deep down she knew there wouldn't be one with us.

I also noticed all her exes are Dr.s or have higher education and she racked up $20k in debt and never finished college. There really aren't career goals or anything to that effect at all when it comes to her.

[Sunfl0wer]

Same thing. She never discussed anything future oriented at all. Probably because deep down she knew there wouldn't be one with us.

I wonder if this is less of a premonition... .or forecast...   rather more of self doubt... .and fear of vulnerability?

My ex did this too.  I feel for him he was always afraid to take the lead.  Fear of being responsible for things going wrong.  Fear of being let down and rejected.  He always mentioned how he did not really really feel passionate about marrying his ex... .more like she made him realize that it was the thing to do.  I think he prefers to be led into things... .vs ever making a choice.  That way he can never be wrong, never have guilt.  He is a perpetual victim... .by design.

[Tim300]

He always mentioned how he did not really really feel passionate about marrying his ex... .more like she made him realize that it was the thing to do. 

There's at least a 50% chance here (honest opinion, 99% chance) that the reality is that the pwBPD begged for marriage, and now goes around telling another story.  This was what my ex did and it's consistent with others' experiences here. 

[Sunfl0wer]

He always mentioned how he did not really really feel passionate about marrying his ex... .more like she made him realize that it was the thing to do. 

There's at least a 50% chance here (honest opinion, 99% chance) that the reality is that the pwBPD begged for marriage, and now goes around telling another story.  This was what my ex did and it's consistent with others' experiences here. 

That is a valid point... .  However, with my ex... .it would be entirely consistent with his personality in all things.  He rarely takes the lead... .he never makes life decisions.  He does not choose a path or direction.  He waits for life to happen to him. 

(He is NPD/BPD triats... .exW is full BPD.  Not that it matters... it doesn't)

[Tim300]

He always mentioned how he did not really really feel passionate about marrying his ex... .more like she made him realize that it was the thing to do. 

There's at least a 50% chance here (honest opinion, 99% chance) that the reality is that the pwBPD begged for marriage, and now goes around telling another story.  This was what my ex did and it's consistent with others' experiences here. 

That is a valid point... .  However, with my ex... .it would be entirely consistent with his personality in all things.  He rarely takes the lead... .he never makes life decisions.  He does not choose a path or direction.  He waits for life to happen to him. 

(He is NPD/BPD triats... .exW is full BPD.  Not that it matters... it doesn't)

Gotcha.

[SummerStorm]

Sunflower,

   Yeah that was the weirdest thing. I never really thought about it and when I did I asked one of her exes who I am friends with.

Same thing. She never discussed anything future oriented at all. Probably because deep down she knew there wouldn't be one with us.

Mine used to tell me that she never makes long-term plans.  In fact, this is one of the last things she said to me before she told me she didn't want me in her life anymore.  The funny thing is, the day before, she asked me to go with her to a Pride festival that was almost a week away.  She would make plans for a few days ahead and then either change them or cancel them.  It was exhausting, and it messed up my schedule.  I'm someone who makes plans a month, two months in advance, puts them on my calendar, and follows through.  I once cleared a whole weekend to spend time with her, and a few minutes before she left work that Friday, she texted me and said she was "sick" and going home instead. 

[Pretty Woman]

Summer Storm.

  That is common (the cancelling of plans). Mine didn't cancel on me, the SO as much as she did on friends. She always had a headache or wasn't feeling well. Me, she would just pick a horrible fight. Sometimes she would dump me right before the event. Sometimes she would keep me on the phone bickering with her so that I was late to the event, dissapointing the hosts.

I will say this: I am blessed that the friends that rode this out with me stuck by me. They are amazing people. I have a friend taking a train up from the city once a week... .this friend has a demanding job, to attend al-anon with me (I have a lot of alchoholism in my family and neglect which I feel led me to stay in this horrible relationship).

It's a ray of light in all this... .I DO have people I can count on. My ex is not one of those people.

Not to mention this was my first same sex relationship. It really screwed with my head.

PW

[Tim300]

I will say this: I am blessed that the friends that rode this out with me stuck by me.

Ditto.

[Gonzalo]

My ex- came to me as a sort of a combination of an enthusiastic child, sweet girl who had been hurt and was scared to open up, and dirty old man in one pretty package. Between her actual character traits and her mirroring, she just seemed like an amazing match for me, and provided so much of what I always wanted (though a lot of that was mirroring). She had some problems (like broken finances), but I believed her when she sad it was unfortunate circumstances and life falling apart, and felt that working together with me from a stable base would let her get a handle on them, so it was actually a draw that I could help her without hurting myself.

I don't know your exact situation, but it seems odd to me to question a Non by asking, "How did you miss the red flags [of BPD]?" when the Non was completely unaware of the concept of BPD.  Nobody can see red flags for something he/she doesn't know exists.  Even in an extreme case where perhaps your pwBPD was already divorced twice, the Non might see red flags that the person was difficult, but the Non still wouldn't magically be able to know about the concept of BPD (with BPD being much, much more complicated than simply dealing with a person who is difficult or noncommittal). 

I don't think this is true - when I started dating her I had no concept of BPD at all, and didn't fundamentally get the idea of how skewed the thoughts of a person with a personality disorder are. But I glossed over a number of worrying things and convinced myself that I could somehow work through completely unacceptable behavior because I was in love and stubborn. While I would associate them with BPD now, I was aware that they indicated a problem before being exposed to BPD.

Some of the things that I should have considered red flags but ignored early on were:

Told me a 'funny' story about raging out at someone over what they did with leftovers from food she made from her grandmother's recipe. It was a huge, disproportionate rage, and in it her SO and roommate were clearly used to these rages and cringed away from the outburst.

We were going to go to a party on my birthday, she got strep throat and had to cancel, but wanted me to go anyway. However, she said that she hoped I would only have a good time, not a great time, because she always wanted me less happy without her.

We hung out with some friends and she got mad afterwards, started an argument on the phone on the way back, then started driving to her house (2 hours away) instead of mine until I 'talked her down'.

Would talk at length about details of her day, but would cut me off from saying 3 sentences about mine.

Got upset at me for talking a second time about things that bothered me (like going to doctor for high blood pressure or a house I liked not working out), but expected me to listen to her complaints over and over.

Accused me of being controlling for telling her that I was cool with whatever worked for her being able to go on a trip I had been excited about, not to worry about me when deciding what to do.

These wouldn't be enough to say 'definitely BPD', but they should have been enough to tell me to hit the brakes on moving in together, and to really examine what was going on and whether she'd be a functional partner for me.

[rotiroti]

These wouldn't be enough to say 'definitely BPD', but they should have been enough to tell me to hit the brakes on moving in together, and to really examine what was going on and whether she'd be a functional partner for me.

Great line, there was another post floating around asking if our partners really had BPD or not. Does it really matter if they are incompatible with some of the traits?

[joeramabeme]

These wouldn't be enough to say 'definitely BPD', but they should have been enough to tell me to hit the brakes on moving in together, and to really examine what was going on and whether she'd be a functional partner for me.

Great line, there was another post floating around asking if our partners really had BPD or not. Does it really matter if they are incompatible with some of the traits?

Neveragain, you make a great point about incompatible with all traits.  For awhile I stayed away from reading about this b/c she did not meet DSM criteria of being suicidal or a drug user and there were a number of others.  Thankfully I got through the book Stop Walking on Eggshells (which even that did not hit me in the first 2 chapters) to read all about the TRAITS of BPD.  I have not looked back since then.  I still argue wiht my marital therapist about the term BPD and now just stick with pw BPD traits.

I saw warning signs before we married.  I attributed them to a women who was in her 40's and never married and having exaggerated responses to certain things.  Love conquers all, right?  At least I thought it would and I was absolutely in love.  Felt it was a God given marriage.  In fact, I still do.  Apparently she doesn't feel the same or is driven by a stronger motivation.

It is all so sad.

[repititionqueen]

Do you think it's cause they are so different than other people? ( Not in a good way really ) but something like that?

Why?

I definitely loved how 'unique' my ex was. I always told him that and he being a narcissist loved hearing it. He always kept my interest and whenever I felt pushed to the edge and was fed up he would suddenly come out with some amazing monologue that would just mesmerize me back into being with him. It was absolutely incredible. I am the type of person who feels the need to figure people out and I couldn't figure him out. The end of our relationship was left with so many question marks... .and it all led me here to the realization that he has BPD. Also, he was incredibly sexy and amazing in bed... .it's always hard to let people whom you have fantastic chemistry with go... .

[Gonzalo]

rotiroti, the post asking about whether they really have BPD is on the L2 (Undecided) board, I also commented there My opinion is that you have to judge people on their behavior, not on whether they 'really' have BPD, and that trying to figure out if you can REALLY TRULY diagnose it is just an excuse to avoid dealing with bad behavior.

Love conquers all, right?  At least I thought it would and I was absolutely in love. 

It's amazing how damaging that belief is when you run into someone who can't even see their own issues, isn't it?

[Invictus01]

rotiroti, the post asking about whether they really have BPD is on the L2 (Undecided) board, I also commented there My opinion is that you have to judge people on their behavior, not on whether they 'really' have BPD, and that trying to figure out if you can REALLY TRULY diagnose it is just an excuse to avoid dealing with bad behavior.

I think if somebody doesn't have good reasons to believe that he or she dealt with a personality disorder and still is going down that road to make her or him feel better... .That says A LOT about that person... .

It's amazing how damaging that belief is when you run into someone who can't even see their own issues, isn't it?

Yet, a whole lot of people stick around because that's the advice they are given by their support group - "Relationships are difficult. Just tough it out! If he/she loves you, he/she will change! Love conquers all! Go fight for it pumpkin!"

[Gonzalo]

Yet, a whole lot of people stick around because that's the advice they are given by their support group - "Relationships are difficult. Just tough it out! If he/she loves you, he/she will change! Love conquers all! Go fight for it pumpkin!"

By the time I finally gave up, all of my closest support group was more like "finally, what took you so long?"

[rotiroti]

Yet, a whole lot of people stick around because that's the advice they are given by their support group - "Relationships are difficult. Just tough it out! If he/she loves you, he/she will change! Love conquers all! Go fight for it pumpkin!"

By the time I finally gave up, all of my closest support group was more like "finally, what took you so long?"

haha this happened to me as well!

This period of my life also showed me who my true friends were.

[Tim300]

The adage "Love conquers all" should be revised and publicly broadcast widely as the following: "Love conquers all except for Borderline Personality Disorder."  The force of love is simply no match for the force of BPD.  This new adage should be taught in schools along with HIV, etc.

[SummerStorm]

The adage "Love conquers all" should be revised and publicly broadcast widely as the following: "Love conquers all except for Borderline Personality Disorder."  The force of love is simply no match for the force of BPD.  This new adage should be taught in schools along with HIV, etc.

I'm a teacher, and I really think that personality disorders should be covered in health classes (taken by every student), or at the very least, covered in psychology classes (electives taken by some students).  Students are taught about drug/alcohol addiction, STDs, and some mental disorders, but they aren't taught about personality disorders.  When my mother was younger, she worked in a mental hospital for three years, and when I told her about BPD, she said she had never heard of it. 

[Tim300]

The adage "Love conquers all" should be revised and publicly broadcast widely as the following: "Love conquers all except for Borderline Personality Disorder."  The force of love is simply no match for the force of BPD.  This new adage should be taught in schools along with HIV, etc.

I'm a teacher, and I really think that personality disorders should be covered in health classes (taken by every student), or at the very least, covered in psychology classes (electives taken by some students).  Students are taught about drug/alcohol addiction, STDs, and some mental disorders, but they aren't taught about personality disorders.  When my mother was younger, she worked in a mental hospital for three years, and when I told her about BPD, she said she had never heard of it. 

It's simply amazing that BPD is so unheard of, and that personality disorders in general are not common knowledge.  And it's a shame.  This might be because BPD is a relatively recent discovery.  Maybe it takes a major tragic event to capture people's attention.  I understand that Magic Johnson's AIDS diagnose spurred a lot of focus on that syndrome.  I'm not sure what we can do.  I would like to spread awareness about BPD at some point, but for my own personal safety I would like to wait until 10 years of NC has passed.  Anyhow, I do think sharing our stories here, including all of the most tragic details, must be helping some people.

[Circle]

Anyhow, I do think sharing our stories here, including all of the most tragic details, must be helping some people.

It helps me out! Great thread, thanks.

I can relate to not feeling safe. People w/BPD remind me of a kid that would drop their pet off a roof and watch it die. Then, go running down to it, grieving, in tears. (Which doesn't change the fact that they willingly killed it).

[Tim300]

Anyhow, I do think sharing our stories here, including all of the most tragic details, must be helping some people.

It helps me out! Great thread, thanks.

I can relate to not feeling safe. People w/BPD remind me of a kid that would drop their pet off a roof and watch it die. Then, go running down to it, grieving, in tears. (Which doesn't change the fact that they willingly killed it).

Glad it helps.  That is a great analogy. 

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .