Finally leaving. What about the kids?

[29lost]

Haven't posted in a long time but frequent visitor.  I have been married 15 yrs to my uBPD wife and have two children 9, 12.  I new things weren't right for last 5-6 yrs and did the usual things to make it better but it did not help and her behavior has gotten worse.  I decided the best thing for me and my kids was to leave her but lacked the courage to do so-mainly for fear of not seeing my kids everyday.  Finally told her I was leaving 8 mo ago and got an apartment but received a MAJOR charm from her with sobbing pleas of forgiveness and promises of better behavior.  It lasted a few weeks before things returned back to the way they were.  I know in my heart she will never change and this has unfortunately caused me to act as "love with detachment" and be physically present but that's it.  I know this is not fair to her or myself and would be best if I if we separated and divorced.  I FINALLY have now decided that it needs to be over and have moved back into the apartment this week. Again she is hovering and using FOG to get me to move back but I will stay strong.

     My main concern is the kids- it breaks my heart to not see them everyday.  They are currently staying with her at the house while I am at the apartment. She refuses to let them come see me and at this point will not let me go to the house either.  She is not willing to make a visitation schedule.

I know I need to see a lawyer - I saw one once and told me to leave the house- but I can not afford the retainer fee right now needed to get any further advice.  Was wondering if others have been in my situation and what they have done. Any advice would be helpful... .Also the state I live in requires a separation for 1 year before divorce-with her cooperation (A big if)  I could get a divorce in 4 months but if she contests the separation time or anything else it could be much longer and that much longer of uncertainty seeing the kids.

[ForeverDad]

I know this is not meant literally, but in an effort to have you turn around the binoculars and look through the other end, Why didn't you take the children with you?

As a practical comment, it is best not to leave and then afterward figure out a strategy for success, you need to ponder, plan, consult and develop strategies and back up strategies.

I'm guessing you haven't really developed strategies, plans, etc?  Did you document her poor behaviors?  Primarily I'm talking about her parenting behaviors, courts don't seem to care much about the spouse's adult behaviors with you.  They're more focused on the big issues with the kids and their parenting.  They will ignore much of the petty stuff, so concentrate on what may be the big issues and incidents.

You really want the court to see you as a truly involved father, not just an 'alternate weekend dad'.  The longer you are blocked from the children, the harder it will be to say you've been an involved father.  Don't be timid when seeking schedule parenting time and parenting decision making.  One reason so many fathers get the crumbs of parenting is that they don't know to ask for more.  And if at first ignored or denied, many fail to keep asking for more time and authority (as the documentation of the ex's poor behaviors keeps mounting).

My main concern is the kids- it breaks my heart to not see them everyday.  They are currently staying with her at the house while I am at the apartment. She refuses to let them come see me and at this point will not let me go to the house either.  She is not willing to make a visitation schedule.

Of course she refuses to share parenting, that's virtually a universal trait with a disordered parent - denial, obstruction, sabotage, intimidation, guilting, etc.  Right now she is "in possession" of the house and the children and feels totally entitled.  She does not see you as having any authority whatsoever.  However, domestic or family court can and will set a parenting schedule, child support and other basic rules for co-parenting by two parents living mostly separate lives.  Court is The Authority.  Yes, she may be able to bamboozle the judge, at least at first, so that nearly everything leans in her favor, but we can almost guarantee you that what you get from the judge in a temp order will be better than she will let you have absent any orders.

Even if you don't have the money to get a retainer, can you at least get some legal consultations with family law attorneys?  At least find out if you can get basic orders sooner rather than later?

[livednlearned]

Hi 29lost,

I'm sorry for the grief this is causing you -- I read in your earlier post that your son has some processing issues, and it sounds like your wife might have some Munchausen by Proxy issues of her own. Insisting a child is sick (or sicker than he is), and seeing many, many experts, and then conflicting with them is a sign she seeks attention through her children's real and imagined illnesses.

Like others here, it also sounds like your wife has been irresponsible with money and the two of you are in debt. Is she a stay-at-home mom? Even if you cannot afford a retainer, can you afford to consult with another lawyer or two to get as much advice as possible? That, and reading Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse are important so that you can work with facts. It sounds like the lawyer you spoke to encouraged you to leave, but did not say anything about taking the kids with you. This could be a lawyer who doesn't understand BPD.

Often we leave these relationships when our emotions are very charged, and gathering information to put together goals, objectives, and a strategy is important to help bring some of the stress down.

You mention also that one of your kids exhibits BPD traits. What kind of relationship do both kids have with their mom? With you? What kind of custody schedule do you think is best?

In most states where there is a year separation, the custody arrangement gets figured out quickly. In my state (which has a year separation too), I was able to get a temporary consent order (through mediation). The "temporary" is a misnomer because most judges rubber stamp them into permanent orders.

Whatever you do, make attempts to see the kids and document everything. Email her so that you have a record of your attempts to see the kids. Otherwise it will look like you "abandoned the marital home" or however they phrase it. And if she establishes status quo where she has the kids all the time, and you don't contest it, a judge might think you don't care one way or the other.

A lawyer can help you at least think through a strategy so that you know what you can/cannot do to help your case.

[Mutt]

Was wondering if others have been in my situation and what they have done.

I was in a similar situation two years ago. I didn't want to divorce because I didn't want to not see the kids everyday either. My ex was a SAHM and I was the sole provider, she had started an affair and I was triangulated, she left the family home, went no contact and was denying reasonable access to the kids and didn't want to discuss or negotiate divorce or custody. I was only seeing the kids every second weekend.

I found my way here to bpdfamily and had no money because of financial debt, everything was under my name and we had a mean budget. I followed the advice from senior members here and filed for custody through the family court system and didn't have a lawyer. I consulted many lawyers and got their advice, I read Splitting by Bill Eddy and during the process I had managed to retain a public lawyer without a retainer. It wasn't what I had wanted but I did use him to guide me through the family court system and I used advice that I had from here and other lawyers with consultations as well. I think what was key for me was that I had always stepped into court with the kids best interests in mind, the exe's lawyer saw this as well. Don't be persuaded by what the lawyers want, have a clear goal of what you want.

I get worrying about not seeing them everyday. Was that why you felt ambivalent with divorcing? I'm not saying to shoot for shared custody and do try to get as much time and at the very least shared. You may find you'll spend more time and peaceful time at that. It can be done if you're in a jam. That's my advice.


Hang in there.


----Mutt

[29lost]

Thank you forever dad and livednlearned for the the advice.

My wife will NEVER let the kids move in with me right now w/o any kind of court order.  She believes that only she knows what is best for them,  especially my son, and ignores advice from countless doctors, teachers etc.  She is high conflict having pulled our son out of numerous schools and medical practices and has threatened to sue school districts and  doctors ( has already collaborated with an advocate lawyer in  filing a civil rights suit against a private school).  I know I didn't have much of a plan when I left but I just had to leave-could not take it anymore.  ( But  have gotten her rages  on tape a couple of times  

I also changed my paychecks to go into my account only- but this caused major grief -calling anyone who would listen that I am not giving her any money at all to buy grocieries , gas etc (this is not true)  I did this because she has a spending problem and was draining our money.  (calling psychics if you can believe it, for support I guess)  she does not work but spends most of her time trying to "fix" everything wrong concerning my son (most of the problems she creates herself.) Sorry this is long but things are complex.

Anyway, I am ignorant on law matters.  Is there anything I can do legal wise before I serve divorce papers to make her let me see the kids.  From what I am told my State does not recognize a "legal separation."  

Should I try have a lawyer draw up separation guidelines anyway and see if she will sign them - though I doubt it.

[livednlearned]

Hi 29lost,

It's bewildering to leave these marriages, and I know it took a lot for you to make your exit. It took a lot of courage, and probably the abuse got to be too much, more than you were willing to handle. Something healthy in you said enough is enough, and you are putting on the oxygen mask. If you are feeling guilty, don't. Be gentle on yourself -- it's time to start taking care of yourself, it must be, because you decided you had enough and now you're here.

The next step is to figure out what you feel is best for the kids. Start there. Look at the statutes for your state to see how family courts make considerations. Here's a link that might help: www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/family_law_quarterly/vol46/4win13_chart2_custody.authcheckdam.pdf

Lessons 3 and 4 at the top of the Family Law boards might be helpful too: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=239547.msg1331886#msg1331886

Your wife's high level of conflict in other legal situations may work in your favor. It's possible that the court will see a pattern, and patterns are your best friend. Even better if they are documented by others.

You may feel overwhelmed right now, but that will ebb and flow. As you get some distance, you may start to see things more clearly. You've been in survival mode for a long time, and it may feel strange to take charge of your life like this.

We're here for you. Take the first step and learn how things work where you live. Read Splitting. Read the Lessons. Gather information and consult with a few lawyers. Tell them your goals and listen to what they say -- each one will have something different to say, and you can come here and run it by members to see if the strategy seems sound enough, at least in comparison to what we've experienced.

You're not alone. You have friends here who understand what you're going through.



LnL

[29lost]

Thank you for all your help.

[ForeverDad]

You already know you can't get her to agree with you on anything that is not overwhelmingly in her favor.  This is a time for boundaries, both for self-protection as well as for getting far more than you could through appeasing or dancing around the eggshells.  Predictably she feels she has to control everything, especially you and the children and the way to control you is through the children.  Court sounds like the only way to go.  Even if you have to start with a separation, I can't imagine a family court not issuing a parenting schedule during the separation.  Yes, it may take several weeks to get a hearing - it took be about 7 weeks before I got my initial divorce hearing - and all the while my ex had physical possession, I never saw my preschooler during that time (actually it was a little over 3 months of contact blocked) and the police refused to help without a written court order in hand. As they said, both parents had unspecified parenting rights, if we could agree then the court had to call the shots.  And I knew that I'd get better results with court than with her.  It wasn't optimal but it was sure better than her in full control.

If you can convince a court that your children are at risk if you're not involved and monitoring them, then you can try for an emergency (ex parte) hearing and possibly get faster action.

[Surg_Bear]

I don't know your whole backstory- only what I've read here.

She is holding you and your children hostage?  You are lucky enough to have gotten out, but your children remain trapped?

Are you the only source of money for her?

If so, STOP GIVING HER MONEY.  There is no legal reason to do so.  Your state won't help you get your kids.  Get them yourself.

Kids get hungry.  She can't provide them food without money.  You have the money.

What are you doing right now?  Paying her to keep your children from you.  Stop.  Do not give her a cent until the State tells you to.

Worried about what she might say about you?

Is what people think about you more important than the children?

You have WAY MORE POWER in this situation than you think.

Be strong and TAKE what is yours.  Do not wait for the crazy to come around and see it your way.

Surg_Bear