Has anyone's pwBPD ever hid their replacement from them?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I've been mulling the possibility of this over lately, because I think that mine is hiding her replacement from me. Something just doesn't feel right regarding this, and I'm learning to trust my instincts much better than I ever have before.

Honestly, I get it. She feels shame, guilt, etc. Thing is, I would be absolutely fine with it. I'd rather her just tell me and me be like, 'that's super cool!', then have to deal with the questions. Why do pwBPD feel the need to torture themselves? The truth doesn't have to be a painful thing, and I wouldn't want to make it one. I harbor no ill will and think that it would strengthen our friendship if she were to actually open up to me about things like this.

It doesn't cause me anxiety anymore, but it is a vague curiosity.

Of course, this really isn't any of my business, and I don't want to make it mine. I just want to have the closest possible thing to a 'real' friendship with her. (These two statement obviously contradict each other. I'm just not sure how to move forward here and avoid her deregulating.) This includes honesty and sharing. Is it up to me to create an environment that provides these things? Everything is so complicated that I'm not even sure what my role is as far as moving our current friendship forward.

Any thoughts?

[valet]

I've been mulling the possibility of this over lately, because I think that mine is hiding her replacement from me. Something just doesn't feel right regarding this, and I'm learning to trust my instincts much better than I ever have before.

Honestly, I get it. She feels shame, guilt, etc. Thing is, I would be absolutely fine with it. I'd rather her just tell me and me be like, 'that's super cool!', then have to deal with the questions. Why do pwBPD feel the need to torture themselves? The truth doesn't have to be a painful thing, and I wouldn't want to make it one. I harbor no ill will and think that it would strengthen our friendship if she were to actually open up to me about things like this.

It doesn't cause me anxiety anymore, but it is a vague curiosity.

Of course, this really isn't any of my business, and I don't want to make it mine. I just want to have the closest possible thing to a 'real' friendship with her. (These two statement obviously contradict each other. I'm just not sure how to move forward here and avoid her deregulating.) This includes honesty and sharing. Is it up to me to create an environment that provides these things? Everything is so complicated that I'm not even sure what my role is as far as moving our current friendship forward.

Any thoughts?

[Confused?]

Mine hid my replacement. And then after a short recycle hid my second replacement. But to answer your question besides shame and guilt one obvious reason is in case it doesn't work out between them. Another reason is that if they tell you about said replacement, most peoples reactions would be a big f u and then no contact. Bpd relationships are very one sided. It is all about them and their best interests. Some of my exes "best friends" she went without talking to for months at a time. While she was with me she didn't need them. It is all about what they need and want. I don't know anything about your situation but I have been seperates from mine for over a year and the longest she has went without contacting me is 2 months. Even while she is with another guy. She would always lie to me by saying she wants to get back together because she thinks that's what I want to hear. I think it is the only way they know how to communicate. They communicate by saying what you want to hear. Then their actions are completely opposite. It was like that my whole relationship.

[valet]

Then maybe this is about me fulling accepting the disorder.

I know I have not yet, but I haven't really been faced with it in a way that might strongly affect me.

This sounds absurd, but I want to be tested. Maybe it is about proving something to myself, and maybe that isn't healthy. I'm just not too sure.

[Confused?]

It sounds like you already know the answer to your question. A question I will ask you now is why do you want to be friends with someone who lies to you and can't be trusted? I will always love my ex but I tried to friends thing. And just like a relationship with her, a friendship is also impossible.

[once removed]

hi valet  

very good insight on your part. you know yourself better than we do. can you elaborate on wanting to be tested?

if she has someone and isnt telling you, its possible that she feels it would threaten the attachment with you, or perhaps shes feeling shame or guilt. or, shes just being private about it. if theres a relationship theres little way for you to know the extent of it, and theres also little way for her to know how youd react to the news.

i dont think a "real friendship" necessitates that she discloses any of this, but it may feel dishonest to you, and thats perfectly valid. it is up to you to decide how you feel about that, not necessarily to control the outcome of the friendship. that takes two people with different kinds of limitations and not the negative connotation of limitations, just that there may be competing interests. how you deal with that is all within your power.

my replacement was in place for around two months. in retrospect it was obvious, several signs, but id largely checked out for those two months. when she ended it, i started seeing the signs, and had a strong suspicion but thought i was paranoid. when i signaled that i accepted her decision (abandonment), she made things public.

[blissful_camper]

Yes. 

Possible Reasons: 

1. Preserving his image (he claims he doesn't cheat on his partners, however, he cheated with my replacement)

2. Feelings of shame

3. To avoid burning the bridge with me in the event the r/s with replacement ended

4. He may not take the r/s with replacement seriously

5. He may not be entirely happy with replacement

Hiding an r/s isn't exclusive to BPD.  I know persons without BPD who don't disclose that they are in a committed r/s. 

When I was married (not the BPD r/s) it was clear I was married and if someone overstepped that boundary I made it clear that I was not interested. However, I didn't discuss my marriage (even with close friends) because I felt my relationship with my husband was private.  Girlfriends didn't understand why I was protective of my privacy and often assumed that something was wrong with my marriage.  Some of my friends didn't really get that my marriage was sacred to me. 

[valet]

can you elaborate on wanting to be tested?

i dont think a "real friendship" necessitates that she discloses any of this, but it may feel dishonest to you, and thats perfectly valid. it is up to you to decide how you feel about that, not necessarily to control the outcome of the friendship. that takes two people with different kinds of limitations and not the negative connotation of limitations, just that there may be competing interests. how you deal with that is all within your power.

This is a very important thing for me to hear, once removed. You are right. It really is not up to her. I can choose how I react.

This leads me to answering your question. Can I elaborate?

I'm not sure that I can to the full extent. Upon further consideration, I don't think that there is anything to elaborate on. The facts are the facts, whatever the truth may be. Regardless if she is with someone new, I don't feel that it would affect me.

There is something missing, though. I just want to know. Maybe this is just part of what I consider a 'normal' friendship to be: sharing details about current relationships, etc. Is it necessary for a good friendship though? Absolutely not, and perhaps I shouldn't expect it to.

Now I think the question comes down to how I can best deal with this conflict. Is it simply a lingering attachment to her outside of the bounds of a normal, healthy 'friendship' attachment, or is it something more? Am I pining for something that I rationally do not want? That doesn't seem to make any sense, but neither do the behavioral and emotional consequences of the disorder.

Let me say something that is perhaps outside of the normal reaction to the end of relationships with pwBPD. I do not want to help her. I do not want to be the person that guides her to recovery. If she begged me to take her back, I would not, despite the consequences. I enjoy her company; I enjoy the time we spent together; I think that a lot of good can come from this situation; I don't want to bury everything just because of some disorder. The disorder is not important to me. Her behaviors affect how I feel about her, and how I would feel if approached with the 'second chance' opportunity, but they do not affect how I feel outside of the terms of an intimate relationship. She has not been 'crazy' or cruel to me. At worst, she is hiding things. But is that really a big deal? Maybe for some, and maybe it is for me too, but I don't really feel hurt by it. I just want to know at this current moment in time.

So maybe it is a case of me wanting something that is impossible. Maybe I seek an emotional level of intimacy with her that her disorder makes impossible to sustain. This, however, is something that I think I can only learn from experience.

So, naively, I choose to experience.

[valet]

Yes. 

Possible Reasons: 

1. Preserving his image (he claims he doesn't cheat on his partners, however, he cheated with my replacement)

2. Feelings of shame

3. To avoid burning the bridge with me in the event the r/s with replacement ended

4. He may not take the r/s with replacement seriously

5. He may not be entirely happy with replacement

This is very interesting to me, blissful_camper.

All of your pwBPD's reasons seem perfectly simple to logically test and overcome. Really, in my opinion, none of them seem like a legitimate reason to hide something that could be potentially important to someone that you care about.

Then again, this does depend upon your reaction to the news. I guess it's simple then. If a pwBPD lacks a stable self-image, how could they possibly imagine testing the truth out without it triggering their abandonment fears. If you are afraid of things going away, wouldn't it just be better to completely avoid the truth?

This might be the conundrum non's have in these relationships. Everyone desires intimacy to some degree, but if intimacy requires sharing basic feelings with another person, would it just be better left out?

[enlighten me]

My ex did this. It was months before she even tagged him in a fb post.

Im not sure why but a few thoughts are.

He was a lot older than her so may have been embarressed by what her friends would think.

She had another target in mind and didnt want to spoil her chances.

It wasnt serious so didnt want to commit.

or she might have wanted me to feel there was nothing going on so I wouldnt dislike her.

who knows. What I do know is that realising she had someone else helped me detatch. I actually wanted it so there would be more distance between us.

[rotiroti]

Isn't it most likely we're replacements of some sort too? I am certainly not my ex's first partner, not by a long shot!

Was I hidden from her last bf? I think so for similar reasons blissful listed.

In the end I'm not looking so the answers do not matter. However I'm interested in how your quest turns out valet!

[blissful_camper]

Yes.  

Possible Reasons:  

1. Preserving his image (he claims he doesn't cheat on his partners, however, he cheated with my replacement)

2. Feelings of shame

3. To avoid burning the bridge with me in the event the r/s with replacement ended

4. He may not take the r/s with replacement seriously

5. He may not be entirely happy with replacement

This is very interesting to me, blissful_camper.

All of your pwBPD's reasons seem perfectly simple to logically test and overcome. Really, in my opinion, none of them seem like a legitimate reason to hide something that could be potentially important to someone that you care about.

Then again, this does depend upon your reaction to the news. I guess it's simple then. If a pwBPD lacks a stable self-image, how could they possibly imagine testing the truth out without it triggering their abandonment fears. If you are afraid of things going away, wouldn't it just be better to completely avoid the truth?

This might be the conundrum non's have in these relationships. Everyone desires intimacy to some degree, but if intimacy requires sharing basic feelings with another person, would it just be better left out?

Yes, from our perspective those gyrations may seem unnecessary.  But to a pwBPD, it's about survival, wants, needs.  I imagine that when one is focused on survival, they do what they feel is needed to alleviate triggers and stress. In my experience, true intimacy wasn't possible because intimacy, for him, is a trigger.

I can appreciate your desire to have a friendship with your ex.  The thing is, you may find that you need to put your needs aside in order to sustain a friendship with your ex.  That includes putting aside your need to figure out if she is hiding her replacement from you.  What are your expectations with her?   How do you feel about possibly having to put your needs aside to sustain the friendship?  

[Sunfl0wer]

Honestly, I get it. She feels shame, guilt, etc. Thing is, I would be absolutely fine with it. I'd rather her just tell me and me be like, 'that's super cool!', then have to deal with the questions

Are you assuming her not telling you is a way to protect you?  Or protect herself?

There are other possibilities... .

To control you, by keeping you in the dark.  Feeling like she has a secret, a "one up" on you.  Feeling like the possibility of reconnecting with you is not to be taken off the table.  To keep you wondering, guessing.

Of course I do not know why she is actually doing this. 

However, you are right.  A good relationship, a good friendship... .Is built on trust. 

I'm not quite sure what type of r/s I would have if trust isn't present.  This would bother me.  I don't like feeling there is an elephant in the room.  It feels like a mind game to me.  It feels invalidating to me to feel as though there is a major "off limit" or "secret" topic with a friend.  I can understand and respect another persons privacy, however, when the "secret" is more about keeping me in the dark for a purpose towards me vs pure discretion, then something certainly would not sit right with me.

[Schermarhorn]

Mine didn't hide him at all, .

[BorisAcusio]

As I mentioned in the previous thread, if you don't mind the need driven dynamic, secrecy, the lack of respect and trust, then you can have a friendship. Those are part and parcel of the disorder. If you ignore this and place unrealistic expectations on her, then you're going to be utterly dissapointed.

[jhkbuzz]

As I mentioned in the previous thread, if you don't mind the need driven dynamic, secrecy, the lack of respect and trust, then you can have a friendship. Those are part and parcel of the disorder. If you ignore this and place unrealistic expectations on her, then you're going to be utterly dissapointed.

^^THAT!^^

[valet]

I can appreciate your desire to have a friendship with your ex.  The thing is, you may find that you need to put your needs aside in order to sustain a friendship with your ex.  That includes putting aside your need to figure out if she is hiding her replacement from you.  What are your expectations with her?   How do you feel about possibly having to put your needs aside to sustain the friendship?  

I think it depends on what you mean by 'putting my needs aside'. To me, it's an interesting question regarding the nature of friendship. Friendship, of course, means different things to different people. I'm not really sure what it means to me anymore after this relationship, either. I've just never actually had to really buckle down and think about it.

My expectations are simple then: don't be cruel; be at least cognoscente that your friends have lives to live; try to avoid taking sides in any kind of conflict that arises; be, i dunno, 'cool', 'nice', and 'pleasant to be around'

So far none of these factors has been violated, but there also really hasn't been an opportunity to test the more challenging ones that fall a little bit outside of the basic rules of friendship compatibility.

Are you assuming her not telling you is a way to protect you?  Or protect herself?

I think that this is exactly what it happening. Every last bit of intuition that I have is screaming this at me.

Now, is that a misplaced intuition because I want to believe that she cares about me? Possibly, but it would make even less sense than what I see as possible, even within the confines of our former/current relationship.

My main fear, I suppose, is that there are even deeper, darker secrets that haven't been exposed yet. But even now, if my worst fears were revealed as true, I don't think that they would really hurt that bad. I've already thought nearly everything that I can think, guess about, or ponder over. I think that I've already accepted that maybe my 'worst case scenario' is true.

There's a blurry line between being a good, genuine person that wants to have good relationships with people in our lives and putting ourselves in a position to be hurt. I'm not exactly sure where I fall on that continuum now.

When everything fell apart, I never thought that I'd be where I am today emotionally. I'd say that my self-esteem and self-worth are super high, and that I have a very bright view of the future. I don't feel tormented, just quizzical. So, rhetorically, where does that leave me?

[blissful_camper]

Needs in a friendship (for both parties) means there is trust, mutuality, respect.  I found that as I healed from the r/s, I needed to also examine my friendships.  I made necessary changes in that area of my life too. 

[SummerStorm]

I can offer a bit of insight, as I was set up to be a replacement.  

My situation is a bit different, as I was best friends with my pwBPD.  She and I became friends around the same time that she met her boyfriend.  This was at the end of January.  

In early March, she asked me to rent an apartment with her, as she would be needing to move out of hers soon.  I said "no" because I didn't know her that well.  

She apparently started telling her boyfriend a lot about me and about how we were best friends.  A week or so later, we went to see a movie after work, and she got snippy with him when he asked about her plans.  She replied, "I'm going to see a movie with SummerStorm.  :)o you want me to take a picture and show you, so you know we're really there?"  All day, prior to going to the movie, she kept subtly flirting with me, and at the theatre's concession stand, she joked, "Should we get the couples' deal?"  

Right before she went on vacation to visit her mom in April, she came over to my house, and we ended up cuddling in my bed for two hours.  When her boyfriend called, she ended the conversation pretty quickly and then rolled her eyes and said it was a pointless phone call.

She went on vacation for over a week, and the subtle flirting turned into sexting.  She asked me again to rent a place with her, and I again said "no."   When she came back home, she told me that her boyfriend had asked her to move in with him.  We made plans for her to come back to my house and watch movies.  She jumped on me and started making out with me, with no warning.  That led to us having sex, and for over a week, she kept talking about wanting to live with me and about how annoying her boyfriend was.  But then, just as fast as it had begun, she ended it again and said she was staying with her boyfriend.

That weekend, she texted me and told me that she had decided that she should be with me instead.  On Sunday morning, at like 3 AM, she texted me and said that he hit her.  She even sent me a picture of her lip, which was swollen and bleeding.  Ultimately, just like the other two times, this fell apart as well, and she decided to stay with her boyfriend.  A week later, she was trying to get back with me again.  I shut her down and told her I couldn't do it anymore, that we needed to just be friends.  She started devaluing me like crazy after that, and by mid-June, she had cut me out of her life completely.  I was no longer useful.

The last I heard, they are planning on moving out of his cousin's place, where she basically slowly moved herself into (I don't think he actually asked her back in April), and into a place of their own.  Her worst breakups have been with guys she's lived with, she could never handle living with her mom because they fought all the time, her dad and step mom kicked her out, and by the time she was almost out of her last place, her roommate was threatening to throw her stuff out onto the street, so it seems like she doesn't get along with anyone she lives with.  

So, to answer your original question, I was hidden in plain sight. Her boyfriend knew me as her best friend and he knew she stayed over at my house, so there was no reason for him to suspect anything.  From what I know about her past, she isn't the type to have a replacement set up, but she does find replacements very quickly.  She found her current boyfriend a week or so after she broke up with her last one.  I just happened to show up at the same time as her boyfriend, so I was convenient.    

[enlighten me]

The long and the short of it is that a friend is someone you can rely on. Can you rely on a pwBPD?

You can have a long list of what a friend is but a friend is there for you when you need them and your their for them. It is a mutual respect.

[rotiroti]

be at least [cognizant] that your friends have lives to live

Herein lies the problem, the lack of empathy pwBPD has makes this nearly impossible to recognize. Part of why there are so many posts on object constancy.