My pwBPD is always late.

[valet]

I am working on a friendship with my uBPDex, and I was unsure where to post. This seemed like the best place, so here we go:

My pwBPD is always late. Predictably, almost 80% of the time, she will delay our plans by at least 30 minutes, without providing any real reason. She'll just say, 'oh, can we do this a little bit later?'

I'm trying to figure out how to establish a boundary around this behavior. Mostly, I find it annoying. When I make plans with her I don't want to be kept waiting more than I have to, especially when there is no stated reason why. This isn't a major inconvenience in my life, and normally I just let it slide, but I do want to make it clear that I find it frustrating and inconsiderate, at worst.

I enjoy the time that we are able to spend together, I just wish she would be on time! 

Any ideas?

[jdtm]

She'll just say, 'oh, can we do this a little bit later?'

In your shoes, my reply would be "oh, not today - no can do - sorry"  No reason needs to be given.  I know you enjoy time your with her; unfortunately, she does not enjoy the time with you (at least not nearly as much). 

[Kwamina]

Hi valet

I can see why it would annoy you that she always seems to be late when the two of you have made plans. Does she also do this with other people?

I'm trying to figure out how to establish a boundary around this behavior.

There are various ways to set and defend/enforce boundaries. Perhaps you can benefit from this workshop in which various examples are presented:

Workshop: Examples of boundaries

Is this 'being on time' issue the only area in which you feel certain boundaries might be necessary with her or are there also more areas?

[Leaving]

Valet,

My NBPD husband is Passive-Aggressive ( just like his father) and I dealt with his delays and tardiness since I've known him.  Being BPD with his Jeckyl-Hyde personality, Hyde was his PA side.  All PA people use covert tactics to control others and being chronically late is one way they do this.  You can read about PA behavior and how to manage it ( if you want to) here:

www.divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/Pass_Agg_2.htm    There are also other good articles on that same site by the same author on this topic

PA behavior is not considered a disorder unto itself.  It is usually part of another disorder like BPD, NPD ( covert narcissism).

Many years ago our marriage counselor told me that he was PA but she didn't tell me how dangerous and destructive PA people were and how my safety and welfare were at risk of being destroyed by my husband.  Years later, after many failed attempts to help him help himself, I gave up trying to manage my husband's chronic delays and his attempts to thwart any progress we could make.  There are a few times when I absolutely must intervene by taking complete control  ( re: business matters) until we get divorced but otherwise, I keep our lives as separate as possible and I want nothing to do with managing his or anyone else's bad character anymore.  

Just a note:  For many years I thought he just had bad time management skills or was ADHD.  Then it became very clear to me that he was always on time for his job as long as he was happy in his job and not angry at his boss, he was always on time ( even early) for fun activities like fishing or anything else HE WANTED to do,  always on time for anything that HE wanted to do that was not associated with any feelings of obligation or meeting anyone else's needs or deadlines in general.  If he needed to be on time to be polite, considerate or helpful to ME... .forget it.  I was his target for ALL his repressed anger because I was the safest target in his life. I've basically lived with my enemy my entire marriage.  Very alone with an enemy.

When I consulted with a lawyer, I found one that specialized in PA covert abuse and he warned me that trying to divorce a PA person is nightmare because they will do anything they can to delay the process which will end up costing me even more money.  Yes, he was right.  My husband employed such tactics as never showing up to meet his attorney, destroying our property that cost us thousands of dollars, losing large sums of cash and more... .all of those things being ' accidents' of course    When it comes to money, I can NEVER have a conversation with him about saving for anything.  The word ' saving' triggers anger from his childhood and will cause him to do something that will cost me/us two to ten times more than what we could save.  I've never been able to save a penny unless I hide it and never speak of it.  Even then he is a sly one and will sniff around the house looking for hidden money or any records I keep on savings.  I had to get a private PO box where all my private banking and legal documents are sent.  This is a horrible way to live.

For the record, I learned that whenever a PA person can't answer a simple question with a straightforward reasonable explanation for their behavior, then they are being PA.  What I mean is that when you asked why she was being late and she couldn't give you a concise reason, that's usually because she's attempting to control you and the situation but can't admit that she's using such underhanded tactics.  They always have very ambiguous excuses.  Ambiguity, being non-committal and vague is always their M.O. 

[Pina colada]

I agree that tardiness is used as a control tactic for people with BPD.  Perhaps just knowing she will be late and planning your schedule accordingly.  If you want to meet her for coffee at 10:00, could you ask her to meet you 9:30 for coffee?  Just an idea. 

[valet]

She'll just say, 'oh, can we do this a little bit later?'

In your shoes, my reply would be "oh, not today - no can do - sorry"  No reason needs to be given.  I know you enjoy time your with her; unfortunately, she does not enjoy the time with you (at least not nearly as much). 

The way I see it, she's setting up me (and others) for failure just so she can victimize herself. If I can't meet because she's late, she's the one that gets upset. Or if there is a miscommunication or something else goes wrong that prevents people from hanging out with her, she can't see it objectively. It is somehow, only on rare occasions, not her 'playing wronged' somehow. I'm getting good at letting this roll of of my back, because it really has nothing to do with me and I do not feel responsible for her emotions. And she generally calms down and apologizes for her irrational behavior once she gets out of her own FOG.

Hi valet

I can see why it would annoy you that she always seems to be late when the two of you have made plans. Does she also do this with other people?

I'm trying to figure out how to establish a boundary around this behavior.

There are various ways to set and defend/enforce boundaries. Perhaps you can benefit from this workshop in which various examples are presented:

Workshop: Examples of boundaries

Is this 'being on time' issue the only area in which you feel certain boundaries might be necessary with her or are there also more areas?

Hey Kwamina, she does do this with other people. Nearly all of our mutual friends, I'd say. I guess, in a way, this has made the lateness easier to accept. When I see that everyone has to deal with it, I can depersonalize it a whole lot more quickly.

I'd have to give your second question some thought. Thanks for asking it.

Valet,

My NBPD husband is Passive-Aggressive ( just like his father) and I dealt with his delays and tardiness since I've known him.  Being BPD with his Jeckyl-Hyde personality, Hyde was his PA side.  All PA people use covert tactics to control others and being chronically late is one way they do this.

For the record, I learned that whenever a PA person can't answer a simple question with a straightforward reasonable explanation for their behavior, then they are being PA.  What I mean is that when you asked why she was being late and she couldn't give you a concise reason, that's usually because she's attempting to control you and the situation but can't admit that she's using such underhanded tactics.  They always have very ambiguous excuses.  Ambiguity, being non-committal and vague is always their M.O. 

Yes, I definitely see it as a control tactic. But there is fear of abandonment behind it. 'If I always inconvenience people and they still want to see me... .' She's testing her attachments to people.

Strangely, if I challenge her or ask her why she'll be late, she usually gives me a pretty direct answer. But it is always something inane (putting in another load of laundry, cleaning, etc.). Of course, I could always respond 'while why didn't you do those things before we were supposed to do this or that', but it's not even worth the conflict. I'd rather pick and choose my battles and save my own sanity.

I agree that tardiness is used as a control tactic for people with BPD.  Perhaps just knowing she will be late and planning your schedule accordingly.  If you want to meet her for coffee at 10:00, could you ask her to meet you 9:30 for coffee?  Just an idea. 

This seems like the best option.