BFF Update: munchkins played today

[DearBFF]

This morning I got a text from bff, after she called me a week and a half ago when she left her therapist appointment who told her to cut ties with me immediately because I am a horrible friend, insensitive to her, and many other lovely sentiments.  (I was expecting that phone call by the way so it didn't hit me too hard, I was more interested in why on Earth her psychiatrist told her she absolutely does not have BPD, yet she seems like a textbook case to me.)  Tuesday I dropped off a gift (something I do for myself to keep me happy, being kind to someone especially when they are kind to me keeps me going and brightens up my day), but I didn't hear anything back until the text this morning.

She said I could get the girls together and if I picked up her daughter she could pick her up later so they could spend the day playing.  I picked up her daughter at a gas station, expecting her to not even speak to me just have her daughter get out of the car.  She only spoke to her daughter and mine at first, but when she handed me her daughter's clothes and they got in the car she started telling me when she could pick her up later.  I said "thank you" and she gave me a hug.  One of those long ones they don't make you let go of right away.  I talked through the end as it was a bit unexpected to me, asking if she got to enjoy her gift (cheesecake I was worried would be ruined by the heat or covered in ants by the time she ate it since I had to leave it outside, she wasn't home and she said it was warm, but she ate it anyways and it was good thank you).

I got in my car a little teary eyed just glad to have been embraced and to see my friend in there still, as usual it's like I will always have hope, but I am surprised when I see her and when I feel her love for me after something like our phone call last week.  However, when she picked up her daughter (late as expected) she brought the new "boyfriend" and it was kind of awkward for me, she was different with him, cold almost.  I walked out to meet her to see if we could talk just a few minutes (I'm still trying to decide if I should tell her about her mother threatening to call DCF/police because she doesn't like the "boyfriend" although I'm sure I'm screwed either way; if I say or if her mom tells her she told me).  When she turned the corner with him I'm sure I looked surprised and I walked up not knowing what to do, hug or what... .so I just said "come on in" and walked to the door.

I introduced "boyfriend" to my husband and the girls came out of munchkin's room happy to see bff.  They shared hugs and kisses, while I updated bff on our day and the fun things the girls did.  She just kept looking to "boyfriend' referring to jokes of theirs, etc... .the friend I saw earlier wasn't in there it was more like an acquaintance and I felt more like a babysitter instead of the aunt I am referred to as by her and her daughter.  As she left I tried to walk them out to see if I could ask (out of earshot of the girls) if I might hear from her again for the girls to get together.  (I'm pretty sure she either had to work or wanted a date day with boyfriend or just a break from her daughter and since she's shut her mom out I am the next available option if she wanted to hang out with boyfriend who usually watches her.)  Unfortunately, as I opened my mouth to talk she hugged me, but almost like an afterthought quickly and it felt like more to shut me up as it was so abrupt I stopped mid-sentence.  Then she just turned to leave... ."boyfriend" reminded me the carseat must still be in my car so I reached back inside for the keys to unlock the car and they got it out and left.

Really glad she texted and the girls could see each other, but a tiny bit feels like was I just the only option yet I don't think I really care.  I'm always glad when my daughter gets to play with her best friend.  All I can do is be there, and I am... .I would think though if she'd talked to him about "cutting ties" with me he'd find it odd she let me watch her daughter and gave me a hug, but I'm guessing she didn't and was trying to act "normal" so maybe he didn't notice it was weird.  He knows her so differently than I do, I suppose when I think about it everyone does.  I know the most complete version, but everyone else only seems to get a fraction.

Next week I go see a therapist, it should be interesting as I am basically going for a second opinion on the BPD also just to hear any advice she has about improving our relationship.  It will be so nice to talk to someone who actually knows what BPD is, sometimes it gets frustrating explaining it to people.  They just see what they see, they don't see what's behind it and I hear thinks like "oh my gosh, what a b___, why do you let her do that to you?"  And I can no longer see what they see... .I see my friend, I see her pain, and I feel her emotions burst.  Which is why I'm here... .because I get it, and I know unfortunately for her and all of the "boyfriends" none of them will be "the one" until they see it too.  Also, unfortunately for her therapist, he can never truly help her until he sees it too.

[Kwamina]

Hi DearBFF

The situation with your friend sounds awkward in many ways. One moment she unexpectedly was very approachable but later was very cold.

This morning I got a text from bff, after she called me a week and a half ago when she left her therapist appointment who told her to cut ties with me immediately because I am a horrible friend, insensitive to her, and many other lovely sentiments.  (I was expecting that phone call by the way so it didn't hit me too hard, I was more interested in why on Earth her psychiatrist told her she absolutely does not have BPD, yet she seems like a textbook case to me.)

Do you believe this really is what her therapist told her? Would you say your friend generally tells the truth about things?

Next week I go see a therapist, it should be interesting as I am basically going for a second opinion on the BPD also just to hear any advice she has about improving our relationship.  It will be so nice to talk to someone who actually knows what BPD is, sometimes it gets frustrating explaining it to people.  They just see what they see, they don't see what's behind it and I hear thinks like "oh my gosh, what a b___, why do you let her do that to you?"  And I can no longer see what they see... .I see my friend, I see her pain, and I feel her emotions burst.  Which is why I'm here... .because I get it, and I know unfortunately for her and all of the "boyfriends" none of them will be "the one" until they see it too.  Also, unfortunately for her therapist, he can never truly help her until he sees it too.

I can relate to your frustration. When people don't know about personality disorders it's hard for them to really understand what's going on and see things the way you are able to see them. Having a support network in the form of your therapist can be very helpful indeed as you try to deal with your BPD friend. Have you checked out the resources on this website such as the various communication techniques? Perhaps they can help you in your interactions with your friend.

Take care

[DearBFF]

Thank you for the response, Kwamina! 

Awkward is a good word for it, especially when she showed up to pick up her daughter with boyfriend and I wasn't expecting him.

As for the therapist it could go 2 ways... .either she twisted what he said for instance "I can't diagnose you with that let's explore it further" or he said exactly that because she left out the part where she should have said "I received some information on Borderline Personality Disorder from a friend who said it might be helpful to me.  She sees the traits in me and I agree with her, I believe I exhibit all 9 symptoms.  My friend gave me a Dialectical Behavior Workbook (not BPD specific) that I've been working on by myself as she thought it might help with my mood swings and overwhelming emotions.  It has helped me very much and I feel like it allows me to work through my feelings and be more emotionally open when I have done so.  I am also noticing my behavior more specifically my responses to things and I am starting to understand where others are coming from when they feel I have overreacted to something that they have said."  If she actually said that (which I'm 99.9% sure she didn't), I can't imagine any good psychiatrist/therapist saying "Wow you seem to think this describes you to a tee and the most recommended treatment for it seems to be doing you some good.  No you absolutely don't have it!"   

Honestly I'm not positive how long she's seen this psychiatrist... .as I remember she said she needed to see one to get a new prescription for her Adderall which she started earlier this year.  Thing is she's always been on meds so she may have had him previously.  I remember he saying she's had her therapist for years but I am unsure if it is this one she is referring to.  If they had been with her for years I don't know how they could ignore the cutting as a teen, the multiple suicide attempts and hospitalizations, 2 eating disorders, and the list goes on.  I mean just naming a few of those I think most therapists would say, hmm... .have you thought of borderline personality disorder.  Also, she did mention one therapist she went to when her husband thought she had bipolar (this seems to be what most people who know her think she has), said she did not have bipolar but maybe she had borderline personality disorder.  Thing is she never asked about it again or followed up so I was the first to explain it to her, and honestly I forgot she ever said that until I happened upon it myself and it answered every question I ever had about her behavior.

She is truthful to a point, like all BPDs she relays the information she believes is the truth, what she thinks you need to hear, leaves out giant chunks, fills them in later and it completely changes what she said in the first place.  Trust is very difficult with her... .I once trusted her with my life, my daughter's, and so much more.  I have recently given her back the key to our home as she is welcome whenever, but beyond that there is much I cannot trust her with as she is not currently capable of somethings and I would be remiss to trust her with them.  I have accepted who she is and what she is and is not capable of, so I really don't hold it against her but that doesn't make it less frustrating or her behavior less hurtful at times.

I have checked out a bunch of resources, and just recently finished Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder and it's my favorite so far.  I'm going to put in more work on validation, I just wish she'd give me more of a chance to work on my validation skills.  Funny thing is again for the psychiatrist/therapist who I guess knows nothing about her (not his fault) all of the skills I have tried to deal with someone who has BPD work wonders on her, .  Oddly enough though I can't find any skills for me getting her to actually have a conversation when I NEED to have one.  I can talk her down from something then talk about an issue I have that is related, but I cannot just bring up something out of the blue which is a problem for me as she is oblivious to anything that happens that could be hurtful and/or harmful to our relationship.  She just wants me to be fun and silly all the time, and as a deep emotional person when I feel emotionally blocked I cannot.  I first need to clear that so I can move on and enjoy my time with her instead.  Recently I've been there, but much of my joy has been kind of muted because I've needed to talk with her and release some stuff.  Thing is when I get to that point she won't allow me to, I mean literally stops answering the phone, I try to set up a time to meet up and she says things like "All you want to do is talk!"  She becomes impossible and it adds to her pushing me away, thing is without the talk I cannot be what she wants so she finds it in others.

There was once, my favorite day with her so far I think where this happened and she actually asked me what was wrong and we talked.  It may have been all of 5 minutes I got to release my issue before she ended up in tears going on about her divorce, her struggles, etc... .yet I guess it was all I needed.  After we both cried over our breakfast out, we drove back to her house planning to watch a movie but ended up napping together instead.  It was the night she was supposed to have her first date with ex-boyfriend, and I kept trying to get her up to get ready and she just kept saying 5 more minutes because we were so comfy.  That night we were so much better for the talk and the cry and the snuggly nap.  :-)  Just wish I could figure out how to do that more often.

I definitely hope the therapist can offer me more advice, especially about what to do about bff's mom, who I believe also has BPD as is often the case.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=280971.0

[Kwamina]

Hi again DearBFF

Oddly enough though I can't find any skills for me getting her to actually have a conversation when I NEED to have one.  I can talk her down from something then talk about an issue I have that is related, but I cannot just bring up something out of the blue which is a problem for me as she is oblivious to anything that happens that could be hurtful and/or harmful to our relationship.  She just wants me to be fun and silly all the time, and as a deep emotional person when I feel emotionally blocked I cannot.  I first need to clear that so I can move on and enjoy my time with her instead.  Recently I've been there, but much of my joy has been kind of muted because I've needed to talk with her and release some stuff.  Thing is when I get to that point she won't allow me to, I mean literally stops answering the phone, I try to set up a time to meet up and she says things like "All you want to do is talk!"  She becomes impossible and it adds to her pushing me away, thing is without the talk I cannot be what she wants so she finds it in others.

You are already familiar with communication techniques. Based on what you say here it seems you would want something to change and the D.E.A.R.M.A.N. technique can be helpful in those situations. You have her the DBT workbook so you most likely already are familiar with this technique. The acronym D.E.A.R.M.A.N. stands for: Describe, Express, Assert, Reinforce, Mindfully (keep your focus), Appear (confident) and Negotiate. We have a workshop here about D.E.A.R.M.A.N. that I think you might find helpful, here are some excerpts:

After wandering in the FOG for a longer time we have lost the natural instincts and ability to ask for something. Fear is controlling our thinking. Our partner is super sensitive and tends to over-react. We get ever more careful, stopping to ask for things needed in our or our relationship's interest. Resentment breeds. Resentment is sensed. Communication grinds to a halt. How do we get back to normal? A big step is start asking again for what is needed and this is where D.E.A.R.M.A.N can help us.

... .

D.E.A.R.M.A.N. is used when you have an objective, you want something specific, such as to get more sleep, to have help with the chores, to affect a change or to say NO to a request. You want the other person to come away feeling good about you and not full of resentment. This preserves the relationship. You also want to protect or even enhance your self respect.

... .

Have you practiced DEARMAN and in what situation and how did it go? Do you have something you want to happen and you wonder whether this is a case of DEARMAN? Are you confused when to use S.E.T., DEARMAN or Boundaries? There is certainly a lot you would like to have, happen or changed... .

... .

DEARMAN is not simple to do: Steering a conversation through 7(!) defined steps with a person that is prone to dysregulation while you are feeling possibly weak and insecure is virtually impossible.

The key to acquire the skill for DEARMAN lies NOT in following the letters. It lies in learning the underlying skills and practicing them well enough to then being able to steer a conversation through DEARMAN. When looking at DEARMAN it is clear that we are to express needs for change.

... .

Working on SET, Assertiveness, Boundaries and Mindfulness can be done independently and will give immediate payback. The better we get at them the more mental energy we have to successfully steer a complex interaction.

... .

DEARMAN is valuable skill that at its very core boils down to:



We have a right to ask for change - the other side may or may not agree, that is fine too.

When owning up to our requests, staying respectful and focused on what we want we improve our chances for affecting change.

You can find the workshop here: COMMUNICATION: D.E.A.R.M.A.N. technique

[DearBFF]

Kwamina, thanks!

I am familiar with the techniques my issue is while I can use them effectively in a conversation now, I cannot figure out how to have a conversation when she is not speaking to me.  Things get to a a place where there is something between us that needs to be discussed, hurt feelings for instance, but she will not allow it.  First shutting me down when I say anything and she doesn't want to talk unless it's funny joking, then she just stops hanging out, then stops answering the phone and responding to texts.  She wants to have a relationship that is fun/up/happy 100% of the time and let's small bumps turn into disasters because she won't allow clearing of the air, she'd rather just ignore it and push it/me away.  Then she turns to relationships that haven't built up any hurt feelings and once they develop some she pushes them away too, or ends it.

[keldubs78]

I was more interested in why on Earth her psychiatrist told her she absolutely does not have BPD, yet she seems like a textbook case to me.) 

In my experience this is because even good psychiatrists and therapists do not have the full picture.  They are getting one side of the story from the BPD person themselves.  I have always said if we could have a hidden camera and shown it to a psychiatrist, my mom would be diagnosed in a second.  This is very frustrating not only because it hinders them being able to get treatment for something that we know they clearly suffer but also because they are being told they don't have the disorder at all.  Therefore all our hard work in trying to get them to see it goes completely down the drain.  Of course they want to believe the therapist who tells them they don't have it.  No one wants to have a personality disorder.  I'm sorry for the fact that the therapist is also (supposedly) telling her to cut you out and that you are the problem.  That also happened to me with my mom so it made our relationship more strained because any issues we had she would throw that in my face.  Again, sorry you are going through this.  I wish I had advice but wanted to clarify that confusion you seem to have as to why her psychiatrist can't see what you do. 

[keldubs78]

And by "supposedly" I mean it is possibly the therapist did not say that and your BFF is only saying it as a defense.

[DearBFF]

Thank you for your response, keldubs78.  I think I have come to agree with you on the fact that he probably doesn't see "the full picture."  I suppose my confusion was mostly due to me thinking about what I would have done (as most people often do).  So in my head I was thinking if someone sat down in front of me and said,

I think I may have this disorder. 

I would say why do you think that? 

They would probably answer that they feel like they have the symptoms, all of them, and it really explains a lot of the ways they feel and behave that they could never put into words before.  It sounds like they are describing me in a way I've never heard anyone describe me before, my thoughts, my feelings, and it makes me feel less alone; like I'm less of a freak.  Also, if there are others like this and it has a name, then there may be a way I can get/feel better.  I would respond with something like, it sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this and I'm glad it has brought you some comfort in that there are others who feel the way that you do.  One of the most common treatments for BPD is something called dialectical behavior therapy, have you heard of that before?  Yes, my friend who brought information on BPD to my attention also purchased me a dbt workbook, she said she hoped it would help me whether I end up having it or not.  The book is not BPD specific, and I have read through some of it and the situations it describes sound like situations I have dealt with.  I've worked through some exercises writing down my feelings in a notebook and I feel that it has helped me some.  I find some of it frustrating as it is working on a part of myself that I haven't really used much before, and working on the skills it suggests would require me to be much more emotionally open with myself and others around me which makes me very uncomfortable.  I can however see how this could be a benefit to improving myself and my relationships, but that doesn't make it less scary and I feel it will take time to learn and put them into practice.

I would then respond with... .I'm so glad you are finding dbt helpful, it is recommended as a treatment for many kinds of issues not just BPD.  How about I take out the DSM so we can read about BPD and as I list of the symptoms you can tell me how you feel you may have experienced these in your life.  If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them, and if I don't have the answer I'm sure I can get them for you by our next session.  I hope we can discuss this further and hopefully we can see if this diagnosis may fit you and if dbt and/or other treatmens may be of some benefit to you.

Yep... .so again in my mind (obviously wishful thinking) that's how something like that would/should go,  .  It occurs to me though that the above conversation would probably almost NEVER happen with a BPD, unless they had truly hit rock bottom, and I shudder to think what that would look like for BFF; yikes that thought is not fun, and when that happens I just hope she'll let me be there through it or at least after as she knows I love her no matter what (messy bits and all, which is what I say to her).  So in retrospect the conversation probably went more like... .

BFF: I met this great guy and he's wonderful and perfect, and so is his entire family except for his mom who is a horrible witch (just like mine).  He's so much better of a friend to me than my BFF because he just wants to have fun, and do silly crazy stuff.  She only wants to talk which is no fun at all, especially about her daughter, like she's rubbing in my face that she has hers 24/7 and I don't.  It' so insensitive of her to not understand what I'm going through right now, she's never had to go through a divorce, no one is taking her daughter away, she never has to worry about money, she is being a horrible friend.  She doesn't seem to understand I have to work all the time, I don't have time to hang out with her and entertain her!  She even calls saying she's bored and when can I hang out with her when she has her daughter and husband to hang out with, I have to work I can't hang out whenever she wants!  She even told me she thinks I have BPD, and she gave me this information about it like she thinks something is horribly wrong with me!  How dare she try to diagnose me, she's not my doctor!  She is always telling me what to do, she acts just like my mother!  I HATE my mother, I already have one I don't need another one!  I wish she would just go away and leave me alone!

*and scene* 

I don't think that's not over the top, it sounds about right to me,  .  Love her anyways, but that's how she talks sometimes when her mind starts going and she just blows right past anything and everything real/true/valid to most people because her mind distorts it.  For the record: I have my doubts about great guy (like all the rest).  She sees her mom's behavior as horrible yet when she does something similar she's completely justified.  The fun/crazy stuff with guy could on occasion get her arrested if she got caught.  I can't remember the last time I said hey we should talk because it's a trigger and talking is no fun for her because she cannot communicate in an emotionally open way (which I completely understand and SET/validation work wonders in these situations).  Also I've explained to her fun for me only comes after a discussion to clear the air if there have been hurt feelings/etc otherwise it just seems forced/fake in my opinion.  I'm so sensitive to her needs that I realized I barely speak at all except in response to something she says because if I start a conversation she's worried it will become too deep and shut it down.  As far as discussing my daughter it's about the only topic she's left me and up until a few weeks ago it was one of her favorite things to discuss until jealousy got the better of her and she started telling me hearing about my daughter (who is usually sitting in front of her when we're talking about some silly thing she did) hurts her feelings, so then I stopped.  She has also said sending her photos of my daughter upsets her, but I've explained that at least half the time those photos are actually from my daughter herself (she's 5 she can snap and send herself and she likes to send them to BFF and her daughter).  I understand she is busy and has to work often so I have allowed her to make plans with us since my schedule is more flexible (until next month when she starts school, yay!).  Also, I've never called and said I am bored, I believe she's mixing me up with our 13 year old friend who actually does this to me constantly.  I brought the BPD info up with her after she mentioned multiple times that she wished she had answers as to why she acted the way she did and why she said the things she does, she wanted some answers so I gave her a possibility.  I expressly told her that I don't believe it means there is something "wrong" with her, expressing that I've heard it described as being human multiplied.  Plus, I did not diagnose her I even wrote at the top of the notes I gave her "I am not saying you have this, I am not a doctor."  She projects her feelings about her mother onto me all the time, and I've experienced multiple occasions of transference where she turns something I said into an order when she's asked my advice and I've answered her question, stating, "You sound just like my mother!"  As for her saying something like "I wish she would just go away and leave me alone."  Last time it was "Get out of my life!"  Then once we reconnected again she just said she doesn't mean the horrible things she says, that I should always know she loves me no matter what and she is sorry she treats me this way.

As always 2 sides to every story, I'm sure it's somewhere in the middle there but I'd bet if the psychiatrist heard my side and compared it to hers he'd start to at least wonder if he was missing something.  Especially since I'm not the first, nor will I be the last I am sure.  She could parade in a group of acquaintances who talk about how lovely she is, and kindhearted.  I could parade in the discarded friends and lovers who will all say sure she is, but she also yells at you for no reason, gets mad and ignores you for weeks or months, stand you up when she made the plans, and is never there for you when you need her.  One person can only see so much... .*sigh*, but it is what it is and that's what I accept.

I'm sorry to hear that something similar happened with your mom and her therapist.  On one hand I get that they are supposed to side with the patient so to speak, but how can they not want input and an understanding of their patient from someone else's point of view?  It also baffles me that therapists would label people/behavior as right/wrong as that doesn't seem very constructive.  It seems much more helpful to find common ground so one understands why the phrase they said hurt the other and then that one can understand how their reaction hurt the speaker.  That way both can deal and heal and move on.  Perhaps wishful thinking again... .   

Tomorrow I visit "my therapist" for the first time, so we'll see how it goes.  Hoping she can at least validate/understand why I feel BFF may be BPD... .if not perhaps she can offer an explanation that is not the unhelpful suggestion of bystanders who don't know the whole story who use words like "crazy b*tch" or "psycho" to describe her behavior.  Also, she is in the same building as BFF's psychiatrist, interesting coincidence, so maybe I will allow her to share my thoughts with him.  Although I don't know if that would be helpful since he apparently already thinks I'm the problem.   

*fingers crossed*