A couple questions about filing.

[adventurer]

So you all know, I already had a consultation last year with a divorce attorney to have a lot of basic questions answered.

With me working from home and my wife sitting around the house all day or gone with our only car (and an erratic schedule), sneaking away for another consultation with another attorney is very hard to organize.  But it is something I definitely will do.  And then make my decision about which one to retain.

So in the meantime, I have a couple questions maybe people here have some insight on - though I will will be following up with an attorney when I get a chance.  Also, I am in a no-fault, community property state, no kids.  Married 10 years and wife has never worked.

1. Is there any advantage for filing first?  I am considering moving out, then I will be free to do anything I want without scrutiny.  So I am thinking, possible, move out/tip my hand first, then retain an attorney and file.  But if I don't file before I move out, I wonder if there is some disadvantage to me if she gets a chance to file first.

2. Related to the filing date - I am planning on closing joint account and credit card when I move out - my wife has no individual account or credit card at the moment so I will give her some money to start a bank account.  If my wife gets a new line of credit or other financial problems before divorce is filed - can I use date of moving out to make my case for not being responsible for these new debts or will I need to have a filing date in place to protect myself?

3. I have some trust funds from family from before the marriage and I know these should be untouchable individual property.  But I sold some of these funds for home down-payment.  Is there a chance I can count the portion of home equity from my funds as individual property?

4. I cannot find any of the original paperwork for the home financing.  Will my attorney need this and where do I track down copies?  From a county office?  Or from the original mortgage broker?  We have refinanced and I'm not even sure the original broker is around anymore.

5. I have safely made and stashed copies of three years of tax returns, all annual statements from investment accounts.  I am missing pre-marriage 401k information but there was barely any money there at the time, I'm guessing a current statement would be adequate.  Bank records are all available to me online.  Any other records I should be concerned with backing up?

Based on past behavior, I actually have no idea how she is going to react, we may be able to deal with this like adults, but I need to be prepared in case of worst case scenario.

Thanks

[ForeverDad]

First, not having children means a divorce ought to be much simpler and less complicated, less triggering — and less risk of false allegations.  So without custody and child support as issues, you're down to the financial and logistical issues... .is there short term support, who gets what and who lives where.  This doesn't mean it will be easy but it ought to be less 'high conflict'.

1.  Most say there technically is no advantage.  I would side with filing first since if left up to the stbEx then you risk facing a filing claiming you're abusive, a controller, hiding money, squandering money, etc.  If you file first and have documentation for any issues you need to detail, then her "unsubstantiated" allegations in response, after the filing event, will sound more like sour grapes than valid complaints.  Filing first may make her appear more as a toothless old dog barking from the other side of the fence.

2.  For the joint bank account, I'm not sure what it takes to close it by yourself.  If it can't be closed without her involvement, then remove what you feel is appropriate, at least half, more if you expect her to squander it.  The worst a court would require - usually it is passive about this - is that you would factor in the 'excess' taken (if used for personal and not marital destinations) when the divorce gets to the financial division stage.  Leaving her with some money is good, not sure if it will affect whether the court will order her to get no or less monthly interim support, but at least you know you're being decent.

Is the credit card joint?  If so, then likely you can close IF the balance is paid in full.  There is a risk that if you suspend the account then she could call in and as co-accountholder unsuspend it.   Each company is different so their rules may vary.  If not joint, then you can cancel her card since she would only be a cardholder.

Ask your lawyer how to address the move-out versus filing date issue.  Obviously, having a clear move-out date in writing sent to her should qualify as documentation, but best not to have intimacy afterward in case that might blur the lines of separation.  This is a good reason to file as soon as possible after separation.

Depending on the length of marriage and other factors, your stbEx may seek interim spousal support and/or alimony.  In most states alimony, if ordered or settled, is generally no more than half the length of the marriage, quite often less or just a few years.  None if the marriage was short.  It is more and more viewed as "transitional" assistance, such as to help her adjust to single life, find a job or start a career.  (In my case the lawyers agreed to settle for alimony based on 2 months for every year, a drain on my finances but certainly not excessive for a longer marriage.)

3.  Check with your lawyer and financial accountant.  (We are peer support, not legal eagles.)  State laws vary, of special concern are community law states, best to be sure and not guess.  Remember that extra-marital monies, especially inheritances and such, need to be kept separate and distinct from marital accounts.  Merge them with marital or joint accounts and there is increased risk they will be judged as all marital money.  Pulling portions of money out to use for marital purposes probably will not affect the rest of the untouched money as long as the remainder continues to be kept in separate personal accounts.

5.  Passport, driver's license, SSN card, vehicle titles, life insurance, vehicle and home insurance, retirement accounts.  Also utility accounts, stbEx is unlikely to pay the utilities.  Don't forget to change beneficiaries.  I think you can't change beneficiaries while a divorce is process but I suspect you can change/adjust before filing and certainly a must-review after the final decree.  Don't forget about your will(s) as well.

Oh, and if you have any personal items, favorite mementos or anything else that you don't want to 'disappear', be sure to take them with you.  Leave them behind and you may never see them again.  The rule of thumb is "If in doubt, take them with you.  If anything becomes a real issue later you can always decide whether to return them."  You can reciprocate, a disordered spouse or ex-spouse almost surely won't.

[adventurer]

Thanks ForeverDad for the detailed answer.

Not sure if it really needs a response or not but will reply in case it helps others in planning or if people notice anything I've overlooked.

2.  For the joint bank account, I'm not sure what it takes to close it by yourself.  If it can't be closed without her involvement, then remove what you feel is appropriate, at least half, more if you expect her to squander it.  The worst a court would require - usually it is passive about this - is that you would factor in the 'excess' taken (if used for personal and not marital destinations) when the divorce gets to the financial division stage.  Leaving her with some money is good, not sure if it will affect whether the court will order her to get no or less monthly interim support, but at least you know you're being decent.

I spoke to someone at the bank about this, and actually what will happen is I remove my name, info and liability from the account and then it remains only hers.  I would need to do this right away as my individual account is at the same bank and the bank could legally take funds from my individual account to settle overdrafts/problems on the joint while it is still tied to me.  Fortunately (or not I guess), we have very little in the bank <$1000 and I will be withdrawing exactly half before removing my name.

Is the credit card joint?  If so, then likely you can close IF the balance is paid in full.  There is a risk that if you suspend the account then she could call in and as co-accountholder unsuspend it.   Each company is different so their rules may vary.  If not joint, then you can cancel her card since she would only be a cardholder.

Good point.  Credit card is actually in my name and she is an authorized user, so this should be simple.  In any case, I recently got a second credit card that she doesn't know the account info for.

Depending on the length of marriage and other factors, your stbEx may seek interim spousal support and/or alimony.  In most states alimony, if ordered or settled, is generally no more than half the length of the marriage, quite often less or just a few years.  None if the marriage was short.  It is more and more viewed as "transitional" assistance, such as to help her adjust to single life, find a job or start a career.

One attorney here estimated alimony payments possible anywhere from 25-50% of length of marriage.  Hopefully this is something that can be negotiated towards the lower end but we'll see.    She has never worked in our marriage and has no college degree, maybe she will take this opportunity to get a paid education or job training.   

Passport, driver's license, SSN card, vehicle titles, life insurance, vehicle and home insurance, retirement accounts.  Also utility accounts, stbEx is unlikely to pay the utilities.  Don't forget to change beneficiaries.

Great list! I have that plus birth certificate - I have all accounted for except life insurance and beneficiaries.  Will look into those.  I have set up online accounts for all my utilities and bill obligations and will be able to keep up on payments.

Oh, and if you have any personal items, favorite mementos or anything else that you don't want to 'disappear', be sure to take them with you.  Leave them behind and you may never see them again.  The rule of thumb is "If in doubt, take them with you.  If anything becomes a real issue later you can always decide whether to return them."  You can reciprocate, a disordered spouse or ex-spouse almost surely won't.

Still working on this.  The small heirloom jewelry is already in a safety deposit box.  I will be mailing my irreplaceable photographs to a family member.  The musical instruments and anything that absence would be too obvious I will need to hope I can get it out after I break the news but will face the fact that it may need to be written off if she becomes abusive and I need to bail immediately.

Thanks again.  This is all very tough but I honestly think that my first night on an air mattress in a crappy little studio apartment will be heaven.

[Thunderstruck]

Just be aware... .my DH caught his uBPDxgf using a keylogging program on their computer when they lived together. There are also programs that can be installed on cell phones to monitor.

She had all his information (social, birthdate, etc) and the same info for her other baby daddy. She used my DH's information to open an account with the utility company and had it for a few years before we caught on. She opened credit cards with the other baby daddy's info. Do you have any credit monitoring going on?

She also stole a book of DH's checks and would write checks and sign his name. Ugh.

Change your passwords to EVERYTHING. Do not leave any of your personal accounts logged in, do not save passwords. Be aware that if your stbx has access then emails, documentation, etc could go "missing" from the computer.

[adventurer]

Change your passwords to EVERYTHING. Do not leave any of your personal accounts logged in, do not save passwords. Be aware that if your stbx has access then emails, documentation, etc could go "missing" from the computer.

This is great advice, I think I may even have passwords written down somewhere in the 'in case I die' file.

Especially important would be new, impossible to guess email passwords since she could probably guess all the answers to my security questions to send password reset emails.

Any important stuff I have been scanning is getting zipped up into an encrypted archive and uploaded to the cloud in case my computer gets destroyed.