I had to pull the trigger tonight... but do I have the guts to stick with it?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

The feeling of being totally worthless to my uBPDw finally came to a head. I have felt no love from her, no respect, no warmth for some months now. She doesn't want intimacy anymore. I feel like all I am is a convenient ATM. Just when I have a glimmer of hope, she gets mad about something inane and its all downhill from there. So I did it. I got off the run away train. I basically told her that she didn't have the guts to tell me she wants out so I am doing it for her.

Not surprisingly the disordered thinking came out. She said that I HAD MADE THE DECISION ( and she would abide by it), failed to see anything that she might have done to contribute to my feelings ( wait a second, my feelings, oh yes, the ones she refuses to acknowledge), basically twisted everything around as she typically does. But I listened. I listened to her twist and spin and deflect and distort facts. I listened when she told me that I bring out the worst in her, that she doesn't respect me and hasn't for about a year (okay, I felt it, no surprise there). I listened while she projected, gaslighted and out and out lied. I listened when with every word she told me how utterly horrible it was being with me, how she wishes I wasn't home and how she dreads to come home herself. Then after all this, this tirade, this monologue ( as she likes it best that way), she says that it is me that doesn't work on the relationship and I AM THROWING IN THE TOWEL. I ask her one question... ."if I am like you say I am, why do you want to stay"?

She says " I don't know". And then she goes off on another tangent. Eyes of fire, twisted expressions that are down right ugly from the woman I thought was the most beautiful woman in the world. On and on. You all know the drill.

She has decisions to make. Is she going back to her country, telling her ex husband that she is returning home with his daughter? Does she drop out of school tomorrow? Next week? Or does she stick it out, take my offer of support and help for the next few months until she can graduate and find a job? She is livid. She is emotional. She asks me not to expect an immediate answer from her. I never said I wanted one.

I might have done a brave thing. But I am scared. Scared that I will cave at some point. Want to try again. One futile attempt. Just like last time and the time before and the time before. I am scared that this IS IT. That it is over and no going back. I feel schizo.

I just kept reiterating that I am not a bad person, that I just wanted to make her happy. I told her that I just want to be fair. I can't be in a toxic relationship anymore. She said that the problem with our relationship was that I never listened to her, never listened to how she felt. THAT IS WHAT THIS RELATIONSHIP HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT... .HOW SHE FEELS. It's all about her. It doesn't matter that she got angry and got physical with me. It didn't matter that I was hurt and devastated by her actions. Her answer was that I have said things that have been hurtful. She doesn't see how that crossed a line. She will never see. She will never see or understand or comprehend anything but her own distorted reality.

I hate that what I told her tonight hurt her. I hate that instead of me feeling confident and justified in what I said tonight, I am more worried right now about her hurting. Again, like it has always been, I am putting her before my own needs, before my own feelings.

What do I do now?

[michel71]

The feeling of being totally worthless to my uBPDw finally came to a head. I have felt no love from her, no respect, no warmth for some months now. She doesn't want intimacy anymore. I feel like all I am is a convenient ATM. Just when I have a glimmer of hope, she gets mad about something inane and its all downhill from there. So I did it. I got off the run away train. I basically told her that she didn't have the guts to tell me she wants out so I am doing it for her.

Not surprisingly the disordered thinking came out. She said that I HAD MADE THE DECISION ( and she would abide by it), failed to see anything that she might have done to contribute to my feelings ( wait a second, my feelings, oh yes, the ones she refuses to acknowledge), basically twisted everything around as she typically does. But I listened. I listened to her twist and spin and deflect and distort facts. I listened when she told me that I bring out the worst in her, that she doesn't respect me and hasn't for about a year (okay, I felt it, no surprise there). I listened while she projected, gaslighted and out and out lied. I listened when with every word she told me how utterly horrible it was being with me, how she wishes I wasn't home and how she dreads to come home herself. Then after all this, this tirade, this monologue ( as she likes it best that way), she says that it is me that doesn't work on the relationship and I AM THROWING IN THE TOWEL. I ask her one question... ."if I am like you say I am, why do you want to stay"?

She says " I don't know". And then she goes off on another tangent. Eyes of fire, twisted expressions that are down right ugly from the woman I thought was the most beautiful woman in the world. On and on. You all know the drill.

She has decisions to make. Is she going back to her country, telling her ex husband that she is returning home with his daughter? Does she drop out of school tomorrow? Next week? Or does she stick it out, take my offer of support and help for the next few months until she can graduate and find a job? She is livid. She is emotional. She asks me not to expect an immediate answer from her. I never said I wanted one.

I might have done a brave thing. But I am scared. Scared that I will cave at some point. Want to try again. One futile attempt. Just like last time and the time before and the time before. I am scared that this IS IT. That it is over and no going back. I feel schizo.

I just kept reiterating that I am not a bad person, that I just wanted to make her happy. I told her that I just want to be fair. I can't be in a toxic relationship anymore. She said that the problem with our relationship was that I never listened to her, never listened to how she felt. THAT IS WHAT THIS RELATIONSHIP HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT... .HOW SHE FEELS. It's all about her. It doesn't matter that she got angry and got physical with me. It didn't matter that I was hurt and devastated by her actions. Her answer was that I have said things that have been hurtful. She doesn't see how that crossed a line. She will never see. She will never see or understand or comprehend anything but her own distorted reality.

I hate that what I told her tonight hurt her. I hate that instead of me feeling confident and justified in what I said tonight, I am more worried right now about her hurting. Again, like it has always been, I am putting her before my own needs, before my own feelings.

What do I do now?

[gameover]

michel71,

You're doing what's best for you.  No need to feel guilty about that.  Every man has his limits.

You handled her tirade well.  Props.

She has decisions to make. Is she going back to her country, telling her ex husband that she is returning home with his daughter? Does she drop out of school tomorrow? Next week? Or does she stick it out, take my offer of support and help for the next few months until she can graduate and find a job?

Hey, sounds like you're being pretty generous to me.  You've done your part--the rest is on her.

I might have done a brave thing. But I am scared. Scared that I will cave at some point. Want to try again. One futile attempt. Just like last time and the time before and the time before. I am scared that this IS IT. That it is over and no going back. I feel schizo.

Totally understandable.  But there will only be one reason you'll recycle again--because you choose to.  Choose not to--that's your power.

I hate that what I told her tonight hurt her. I hate that instead of me feeling confident and justified in what I said tonight, I am more worried right now about her hurting. Again, like it has always been, I am putting her before my own needs, before my own feelings.

FOG & Codependency

What do I do now?

Hit the gym.  Eat french fries.  Talk to the cute girl in the grocery store.  Spend afternoons in the park.  Whatever you feel like.  Give your wife some space to do her thing.  BPD or no, that's basic respect post b/u (plus, it'll be good for you).  If she wants to talk and comes at you rationally, give her that option.  If she comes at you irrationally, tell her you can't talk to her when she's that way.

Promise it gets better.

EDIT:  Actually you might hold off on the girl at the grocery store.  But you get the point, do things that make you feel better.

[michel71]

Game... .thanks for that. I really needed to hear your good comments especially about the FOG and co-d which I forget about sometimes. That is the part that I played in this relationship. I have done my part and then some. I know I have no matter how gutless she thinks I am to just "abandon" a marriage.

My POWER to recycle. I like that. POWER. I will think on that.

You are so right about giving her space. It's respectful. My general tendency is to want to talk it out, get a meeting of the minds, know what the game plan is. I can't do that... .especially now.

So I will hit the gym and do what you suggested. Hard as hell to do when I want to lapse into FOG or my normal role of a co-D.

As for talking to the girl in the market... .well... .that will be a long time coming.

Thanks friend.

[Darsha500]

Stick to it Michel, we're rooting for you!

[gameover]

Just a heads up:  you'll lapse back in FOG.  Accept that and don't feel bad when it happens--but recognize it.  When it happens make a conscious effort to re-focus on yourself and your own needs.  Things'll start to clear up little by little; when this happens, focus on how liberating it feels.  Things like music and nice weather will eventually start to get you excited again.  

Try and remember who you were before the relationship and start reconnecting with the things you liked about that person.  Know it won't be easy, but you've seen this coming for a while so you have a head start.  And all of this is doable and definitely worth it.

Help your wife if/when she wants to be helped (assuming you're already taking care of yourself).  But know it's not your problem if she doesn't want your help.

[michel71]

Thanks Darsha. Thanks Game. I hear her crying downstairs and its really hard not to go down there and comfort her. She told me to leave her alone. That is what she wants so I have to respect that. As to FOG... .I am there... .but don't want to stay there! Easier said than done I am afraid!

[patientandclear]

Michel, I feel for your situation, so much.  I do want to note that, as I read your initial post, I couldn't help but flip the script and felt like I was listening to my ex with BPD explain to me why he had to end our r/ship.  It was for my own good.  It was because eventually my feelings would be such that I'd need to leave him or accept unacceptable terms from him.  Loss was inevitable, so, he just called it first.

Of course what I wanted him to do was explore those feelings with me and solve them with me if possible -- NOT unilaterally decide they were unsolvable.

So I can kind of relate to what your wife said, about how she's acting cold and withdrawn because of hurt feelings she wanted you to address -- NOT by breaking up.

Not saying she's made it easy or even possible for you to identify or address whatever feelings are leading to  her intimacy withdrawal.  But I can see why she'd have a rough reaction to you telling her that she doesn't have the guts to end it so you're doing it for her.

If YOU want to end it, that is a quite different statement.  But if you meant what you said -- that you're doing it because you think she wants out -- you might do her the courtesy of asking what she really wants.  There might be good information there.  I do understand that now, her reaction to the conversation you just had may make it tough to get that information from her just now.

[enlighten me]

Hi michel

I read your post and thought wow that was me a year and a half ago. I could have written the same thing word for word.  The hitting the last straw and no longer being able to take being devalued but still holding on to a slim sliver of hope that it could get better. The not wanting to hurt her even though I was hurting but I didnt matter as I could take the pain as that was what im supposed to do. The accusations and one sidedness of only their feelings mattering.

So what now? You will doubt yourself, start to believe that she has a point and maybe it was you. It wasnt you it was the dissorder and the dissorder always wins.

There will be tears, begging, rage. You will be treated to the full range of her emotions. Its up to you to decide which path to take. For me I had to get away for my own sanity and happiness. Theres nothing wrong with being selfish every now and again.

All the best

EM

[Surg_Bear]

Same thing at my house right now.

Even down to her saying she "gave up on" me years ago, she stopped having sex 5 years ago; yet it was me who was doing the leaving. 

I know EXACTLY how you feel.  I dropped the axe about 8 weeks ago, so I'm a little further down the road.

This is a hard road to walk- especially alone.  When you see the woman you love, who you loved more than anyone in the whole world, a few feet away in the same home.  She is trying to inch out her little corner of the world, and it seems so pathetic because she had the power to make it right- she could have turned things around and done the relationship behavior right.

Except- WRONG.

She could NOT have done things differently, because her wiring is so disordered.  She did leave you, and was too weak to say so.  You had to drop the axe because she was too busy blaming you to see it was her fault all along.

You have arrived at acceptance, but you need to get to radical acceptance (RA); to be able to move on.  To separate and not become trapped in the purgatory of "what if's" "should've-s" and "could've-s" you need to radically accept that it could not have been any other way.  There are people on this board who are still struggling with grief and loss YEARS after the break-up.  Because they cannot get to RA, they have false hope.

Like when your dog dies- you might hope it is not real.  You might wish things could have been different, but no matter how you twist it, that damn dog is dead.  You must now cope with the loss of your loving dog.  Death is black and white, and because of this, radical acceptance is the only way to cope.  That is one of the reasons it is so hard to deal with- we don't want to radically accept that we will never hug our mothers ever again.  Yet, we HAVE to.

If you can see your relationship without the Hope-Goggles, and radically accept that it is over, you should have a much easier time with your grief, loss, and hurt.

I am with you, brother.   

Love,

Surg_Bear

[michel71]

Michel, I feel for your situation, so much.  I do want to note that, as I read your initial post, I couldn't help but flip the script and felt like I was listening to my ex with BPD explain to me why he had to end our r/ship.  It was for my own good.  It was because eventually my feelings would be such that I'd need to leave him or accept unacceptable terms from him.  Loss was inevitable, so, he just called it first.

Of course what I wanted him to do was explore those feelings with me and solve them with me if possible -- NOT unilaterally decide they were unsolvable.

So I can kind of relate to what your wife said, about how she's acting cold and withdrawn because of hurt feelings she wanted you to address -- NOT by breaking up.

Not saying she's made it easy or even possible for you to identify or address whatever feelings are leading to  her intimacy withdrawal.  But I can see why she'd have a rough reaction to you telling her that she doesn't have the guts to end it so you're doing it for her.

If YOU want to end it, that is a quite different statement.  But if you meant what you said -- that you're doing it because you think she wants out -- you might do her the courtesy of asking what she really wants.  There might be good information there.  I do understand that now, her reaction to the conversation you just had may make it tough to get that information from her just now.

I appreciate your comments.  I have been listening to her since I met her. Her feelings and her concerns were always at the top of my list. I have had endless monologues ( her talking, me listening and taking a lot of raking over the coals) about her identifying and addressing the feelings leading to just about any outcome: lack of trust, lack of respect, intimacy withdrawl, etc. It always ends up the way. I really do listen. I really do try and validate. She always concludes that I don't care about her feelings and that I don't love her. And it just never gets better. Counseling didn't help because she didn't like re-hashing old hurts and she said it just made her more mad.

Here are some other facts that I should have mentioned: she has been sending emails to her contacts in her country, telling them that she is thinking of coming home, I found some documentation on what looks to be another bank account, perhaps with a friend of hers from home, mentioning the friends name and a password, her daughter told me ( and she shouldn't have) that her new password was "separated".

[michel71]

Thank you all for your comments and your words of encouragement and support. I awoke this morning with a horrible pit in my heart, a sick feeling in my stomach and completely exhausted like I hadn't slept a wink. I have to get up, go to work, bring my A game, and deliver results today. It is going to be tough to get through the day. My wife did not come to bed last night. Slept on the couch. Not a surprise really under the circumstances but it felt... .different.

I thought about how much punishment will be levied upon me because of what happened last night. She basically told me in so many words that she does not care about me or my feelings or my pain. Yet, this is really no different than life as I know it with her on the day to day. How much more could she devastate me emotionally? I have grieved this relationship for over a year now as I saw it slipping away. I went through the stages of grief, not to say that I won't relive them again, but I actually did feel all those things. With the help of time and medication I was able to see that I did have value and that I didn't deserve this treatment. I hung on for as long as I could even after she told me that she loved me "less". That killed me. My heart literally cracked when she said that. And I never felt like she loved me "more" after that. Unlike a lot of posts on here, I never really returned to my white knight status after being heavily painted black, which was sometime after we married but before she got her visa to move here. It was more of an undertone of seething just waiting to come out at the first glimpse of a wrong act on my part; she never really adored me again.

I think I am going to call my therapist to get in asap before next week's appointment.

[once removed]

hey michel71 

thats pretty rough hearing that someone doesnt care about our pain. i hope you know you have many here that do  . it sounds like as youve described, she is simply unable to acknowledge your pain, only hers.

wishing you strength in getting through today and bringing your A game. please let us know how it goes.

[michel71]

Thanks Once. Brought the A game. I don't know how I did it. It took a whole lot of effort. I let myself take breaks to grieve and then I went back to it. I was and still am exhausted. My uBPDw and I are co-existing. We have talked a bit but both of us feel very uncomfortable and wish we could be apart and in our own space rather than having to live together temporarily for monetary and logistically reasons. As much as we argued and as unpleasant as it was, we would still hug and touch during the calm times so it feels weird not to be able to just reach out and touch her. We actually hugged tonight, a good long hug, but both of us know that we don't want to be miserable anymore and can't stay together. It is sad. And weird. That is how I would describe it.

One day at a time.

[Loosestrife]

I spent many a night caring about my ex's pain and ignoring my own, it's time to find a two way street. You can do this!

[michel71]

Well said Loose. I will kept those words in mind today... .thank you!

[Loosestrife]

Another pertinent  quote I heard today was "never let anyone get used to disrespecting you"

[once removed]

good for you michel71 

that does sound really sad and i can understand feeling uncomfortable. for what its worth, it sounds like the situation has settled down a bit, correct me if im wrong. sharing a hug seems preferable to the fighting and painful words.

[michel71]

Yes. Most certainly. A hug is better. I still love her. I just know that I don't love her FOR ME. I can't if I love myself. It is hard to put myself first after a lifetime of conditioning. My mother was a narcissist. IT was all about her. My feelings did not matter. The first person that we bond with in life teaches us love. My mother taught me that love was about taking her verbal abuse, feeling less than, caring about her feelings more than mine and loving her harder, no matter how my heart was breaking. I saw a medium yesterday. It was incredibly powerful. I will do another post about that.

Again, thank you all for your kind words.