Lack of identity

[Depression = 72% of members]

I was at an al-anon meeting the other day and reading something about "codependency" and how it means people are dependent on others to form their identity.  And then last night, I was listening to W complain about where we live, claiming every place but here would be better. 

This got me thinking.  Perhaps it's more than just needing others to define their identity, more than just material things, but also places and environments.  My wife spent a considerable part of her life travelling around, living in different countries.  Perhaps that is how she identified herself.  Being an ex-pat living abroad is an identity.  Being a world traveler is an identity.  Now that she is "settled" (married and living in one place - this is the longest she has ever lived in one place), perhaps she has anxiety over a loss of identity.

Thoughts?

[maxsterling]

I was at an al-anon meeting the other day and reading something about "codependency" and how it means people are dependent on others to form their identity.  And then last night, I was listening to W complain about where we live, claiming every place but here would be better. 

This got me thinking.  Perhaps it's more than just needing others to define their identity, more than just material things, but also places and environments.  My wife spent a considerable part of her life travelling around, living in different countries.  Perhaps that is how she identified herself.  Being an ex-pat living abroad is an identity.  Being a world traveler is an identity.  Now that she is "settled" (married and living in one place - this is the longest she has ever lived in one place), perhaps she has anxiety over a loss of identity.

Thoughts?

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[Cat Familiar]

I think you're absolutely right thinking that she has lost the identity she had of being a world traveler and perhaps she's reluctant to take on a new identity as wife and schoolteacher, as though that's not as glamorous.

My husband chronically complains that it hasn't rained here and he's going crazy about the endless sunny days. For g-d's sake, it's California. It doesn't rain here in the summer. He lived on the East Coast when he was young and hated the humidity from the summer rains.

PwBPD seem to need something to complain about. They don't seem to understand how to be happy with their current circumstances.

[Notwendy]

Max, my first thought ( from being in co-dependency 12 step groups myself) is that the ideas mentioned are for the members to consider about themselves, not their spouse.

This is a hard concept to grasp. It may be more apparent in someone with BPD, but the not so pleasant truth is that BPD and co-dependency can have some similar issues. I say this from the perspective of having to consider things about myself too. While it is helpful to understand why someone with BPD feels like they do, for this to help us, we still have to consider how those issues relate to us.

Both people with BPD and co-dependents have an over-reliance on external factors as part of self identity. Co-dependents are overly focused on other people's issues- trying to fix them, rescue them, understand them. This keeps us ( and I include myself ) from taking too good a look at ourselves. What is the difference between this and being a nice person? One difference is in the way the co-dependent feels- as if their lives are chaotic- and they are chaotic, because we put so much power and influence on our lives in the hands of someone else by focusing on them and reacting to them.

To some degree, we all have some outside influences on our identity- how we grew up, where we lived, our culture/religion, where we went to school, our jobs, our relationships with others. . People say " I'm a southerner". "I'm a lawyer" . We react when these roles change. Something like a job loss can feel devastating. Mothers can grieve at the empty nest- the sense that their role as mother is changing. Yet life is such that changes happen. The child of parents who travel, may settle down and live in one place. The college football star may then become a businessman.  If we have an intact sense of self, we can adjust and learn to relish the good parts of where we are at. The world traveler might join a group that tries new restaurants and sees foreign films. The former football star might enjoy being a volunteer coach.

This becomes a problem when there is a weak core sense that the person feels completely anhilated by any change to the external circumstances that they rely on for identity, or it is so fragile that one angry comment can feel like despair. Instead of hearing " you made a mistake, it becomes "you are a mistake".

People who rely on others too much for their identity have poor boundaries. Having a poor sense of self means I don't know where I end and someone else begins. This becomes problematic for a co-dependent living with someone with BPD. In the world where feelings equal facts, a person with BPD might lash out or accuse the partner of something, and instead of the partner deciding to consider whether it is true or not, he/she defends it ( JADE) - which makes the pw BPD feel invalid ( threatens their sense of self)and they are both on that circular argument.

Like Cat said- the poor sense of self is a part of them- wherever they are. If they are basically unhappy, it doesn't matter whether they are in Italy or a desert Island- wherever they go , they bring themselves with them. There is also the tendency to idealize so the time spent travelling may have become that. There is also the tendency to blame something outside of themselves- the rain, the job, the house, and the search for something outside that will fix it- the vacation, the move, some event, but once those things are achieved, the melancholy can still be there, as external things are not likely to "fix" that.

Although people who are co-dependent may not behave in a similar way, looking at others, helping or fixing others can often take the focus off of us, and that can keep us from growing emotionally.