Two borderlines = double trouble

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My ex has an unstable "friend" who also has BPD.

I feel jealous and also confused---- he has a history of broken relations and so does she.

-----I have heard that sometimes a narcissist will partner up with a BPD... .but what would the attraction be between 2 people with BPD?  The instability in each other? 

-----I would think a BPD would at least feel better with  a more stable person, but not with a less stable one!  Unless they are just not looking for a relationship with the unstable person?

[shatra]

My ex has an unstable "friend" who also has BPD.

I feel jealous and also confused---- he has a history of broken relations and so does she.

-----I have heard that sometimes a narcissist will partner up with a BPD... .but what would the attraction be between 2 people with BPD?  The instability in each other? 

-----I would think a BPD would at least feel better with  a more stable person, but not with a less stable one!  Unless they are just not looking for a relationship with the unstable person?

[OnceConfused]

why would you feel jealous and confused about your ex has an unstable friend?

Once becoming the X, are we supposed to let the other person go and do what they want?.

If the xBPD decides to get involved with another BPD, then ... .but WHO CARES.

[shatra]

Once confused wrote---

why would you feel jealous and confused about your ex has an unstable friend?

----Jealous because I was with him for years and now he has  a "friend" who might be more than a friend. So naturally I feel jealous.  Confused because the "friend" is very unstable and a mutual friend said she is a negative influence... .so I am confused about his poor judgment

Once becoming the X, are we supposed to let the other person go and do what they want?.

---No I have not let him go emotionally yet. Everyone has a different timeline when it comes to separation. And I am not sure it is totally over between us yet---more confusion.  Anyone can have whatever friend they want---what I am expressing is my feelings about it, which are natural after a relationship.


If the xBPD decides to get involved with another BPD, then ... .but WHO CARES.

----I care. I care because I had still wanted to be with him in a way. Also I care because from what I have heard, this friend is very inconsistent and damaging to him.

---So I am wondering if anyone has feedback on the idea of 2 borderlines being "friends" I would imagine it's even less stable than a borderline and a non.

[Notwendy]

So I am wondering if anyone has feedback on the idea of 2 borderlines being "friends" I would imagine it's even less stable than a borderline and a non.

I think you are correct in assuming that two people with unstable relationship styles would have an unstable relationship.

What makes BPD/Non more stable in that sense is that the instability ( dysfunction) in both people match as one can fill the need of another, but these kinds of relationships tend to still be dramatic and difficult l- otherwise there would be no need for this board.

However, BPD exists on a spectrum, and so there can be a wide variety of personalities and expression of that within the realm of BPD. In addition, there are many ways that two people can be attracted to each other. When we talk about BPD we consider traits that people have in common, but it is difficult to make predictions about any two particular people within the spectrum.

So, I think it is possible to answer your question but also possibly not answer it completely, because how any two people relate to each other is not completely understandable.

Yes, BPD-PBD is generally an unstable pairing in a partnership.

Can two people with BPD be friends, and can they be more than friends? Yes

What is the attraction between them? Shared drama, shared interests, shared weaknesses, shared addictions possibly- two drinkers or users might do this together, physical, emotional, shared backgrounds, friends, same school, even shared religions- all kinds of attractions are possible and like with anyone not all are bad- they could share common interests, employment, and more.

Can it last? Perhaps.

How long? Not able to say.

[shatra]

Notwendy wrote----

What makes BPD/Non more stable in that sense is that the instability ( dysfunction) in both people match as one can fill the need of another, but these kinds of relationships tend to still be dramatic and difficult l- otherwise there would be no need for this board.

----Yes, a relationship between a non and a BPD would be more stable than one with 2 BPDs... .I wonder what you mean by the instability felling the need of the other?


Yes, BPD-PBD is generally an unstable pairing in a partnership.

What is the attraction between them? Shared drama, shared interests, shared weaknesses, shared addictions possibly- two drinkers or users might do this together, physical, emotional, shared backgrounds, friends, same school, even shared religions- all kinds of attractions are possible and like with anyone not all are bad- they could share common interests,

-------The shared drama and addictions makes sense between the 2 BPDs. When you wrote shared weaknesses did you have certain weaknesses related to the disorder in minD?

-----In this case, they don't have the same school, religion, interests, etc.  "Not all are bad"---- well I would say that not all shared interests are bad, but a friendship between 2 BPDs overall would not be good or healthy (when neither is in treatment and there is heavy drinking).  It seems that inconsistency and verbal abuse mark the friendship

[pallavirajsinghani]

Jealousy as an emotion is a very confusing state of mind.  It is totally unreasonable and I'd like to present my own example here:

Many times when I read posts where the non is totally in love with a BPD sufferer, is ready willing able to die for love, will tolerate immense pain because of love and devotion... .

I feel jealous.

Reason?  I am a non-married to a non.  With my ordinary hum drum non-conflict, non-drama, stable life... .there is no way I will allow this type of devotion.  If I behaved a fraction of what the BPD sufferer does, my husband for sure will be looking at the divorce court... .(and so would I by the way).

I know that I have his love and his respect and his affection... .but devotion of this intensity, this strength... .I do not.

Unfortunately I will never feel this type of absolute commitment from anyone in my life.

Hence... .I feel jealous.

The point I am making is that jealousy is an irrational emotion... .

[Notwendy]

Statra, people with BPD tend to be impulsive, some my have addictions. You mentioned drinking. They may enjoy doing that together. If someone else didn't drink like that, then they couldn't "party" with them.

Filling the need of each other?

For a pw BPD and another one with BPD:If both people seek drama in a relationship, then there is the possibility that two drama seekers may fill that need for each other. Others- sex, companionship. If someone has low self esteem, then they may feel that another person with low self esteem understands them.

For a BPD and a non- The non in general has a need to be a caretaker, rescuer, and the pwBPD has a need to  rescued. This is one factor that makes the relationship more stable in general than one between two people who need to be rescued but neither is a rescuer. That;s one example but other needs may be mutually filled- sex, companionship.

A relationship doesn't have to be good or healthy for two people to be together. An abusive relationship can be full of drama. Some people seek out drama in relationships.

Sometimes an attraction between two people isn't fully explainable.

[shatra]

I appreciate the time notwendy took to answer. I responded throughout:

You mentioned drinking. They may enjoy doing that together. If someone else didn't drink like that, then they couldn't "party" with them.

----True, but a light or non-drinker can be a more stable force and a safe car driver. 2 heavy drinkers would eventually stir up more problems and instability.


For a pw BPD and another one with BPD:If both people seek drama in a relationship, then there is the possibility that two drama seekers may fill that need for each other. Others-sex, companionship. If someone has low self esteem, then they may feel that another person with low self esteem understands them.

----As you wrote later, sex and companionship can be in any relationship, not related to BPD. I agree that the drama seeking can be an attraction between 2 BPDs... .yet just like the drinking, it can eventually be destructive. Just as 2 people with low self-esteem may "understand" each other, but may also drag each other down and act out in the same way against each other, compared to one of them having high self-esteem.


For a BPD and a non- The non in general has a need to be a caretaker, rescuer, and the pwBPD has a need to  rescued. This is one factor that makes the relationship more stable in general than one between two people who need to be rescued but neither is a rescuer. That;s one example but other needs may be mutually filled- sex, companionship.

---Very true insight

A relationship doesn't have to be good or healthy for two people to be together. An abusive relationship can be full of drama. Some people seek out drama in relationships.

---Correct.  And BPDs may seek out drama, but 2 BPDs together sounds like an overload of destructive drama, and would be less healthy than if one of them does not have BPD. 

----2 people with another type of mental illness might also be unhealthy for each other (i.e. major depression), but in BPD when one of the main traits is unstable unhealthy relationships, I am thinking that 2 BPDs would be a lot more unhealthy than just one in a relationship?

[Notwendy]

Shatra, I think you are looking at the situation through logic and reasoning. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is probably a good idea to consider if a relationship is healthy or destructive for us.

I am thinking that 2 BPDs would be a lot more unhealthy than just one in a relationship? You could be correct about this.

I think you are correct that two people with serious issues won't likely be emotionally stable, and to wonder why someone would choose that?

The problem is that, we can't decide that for anyone else and people still can make this choice, well because people are known to make choices that are not good for them.

Unless they tell us themselves why they choose it, we don't really know why.  You are not alone in being concerned that someone you care about is involved in a potentially unstable or destructive relationship. Sadly, for some of us, we do see people we love do this. But regardless what we think, it isn't our choice to make.

We could all come to an agreement that your ex is in an unstable situation, but it is still his choice to be in one.

I understand your wanting to understand the situation, and your concern for him, but at this point, what else could you do with this understanding to change his decision?

[shatra]

Notwendy wrote--

I understand your wanting to understand the situation, and your concern for him, but at this point, what else could you do with this understanding to change his decision?

-----I am not trying to change his decision. He makes decisions and then changes them as the wind shifts. Actually he seems to act more based on impulse than making a decision.  I am trying to understand the situation because right now I feel confused about it.  Understanding the dynamics a bit more can help me feel less confused.

  Lookiing for other people's experience who have partnered with BPDs can help me to understand why he would have a friend who is so unstable and destructive... .especially when adding that "fuel" of BPD to his own BPD.  In other words,  I can see a non initially being interested in a BPD's drama and intensity... .but 2 BPD's together in this case iis negative and destructive. So I'm just trying to understand this, as I'm not familiar with it.

[Notwendy]

I don't have personal experience with this, so perhaps other posters have some to share.

[EaglesJuju]

Lookiing for other people's experience who have partnered with BPDs can help me to understand why he would have a friend who is so unstable and destructive... .especially when adding that "fuel" of BPD to his own BPD.  In other words,  I can see a non initially being interested in a BPD's drama and intensity... .but 2 BPD's together in this case iis negative and destructive. So I'm just trying to understand this, as I'm not familiar with it.

I do not think anyone, but him will know for sure why he had decided to be friends with another pwBPD. As others have mentioned it could be factors that are not related to BPD.

From your perspective, you are expecting him to make logical and rational decisions, when you say he is impulsive and unstable. If you are looking at it from a non-disordered perspective the situation is not going to make sense. Someone who is impulsive and erratic, does not use aforethought to make decisions and think of potential destructive behavior. What you may think is negative and destructive, he may not perceive it the same way as you.

[shatra]

Eagles wrote--

I do not think anyone, but him will know for sure why he had decided to be friends with another pwBPD. As others have mentioned it could be factors that are not related to BPD.

--The factors mentioned (similar interests, etc.) are not at play in this case. It seems to be related to BPD.


From your perspective, you are expecting him to make logical and rational decisions, when you say he is impulsive and unstable. If you are looking at it from a non-disordered perspective the situation is not going to make sense. Someone who is impulsive and erratic, does not use aforethought to make decisions and think of potential destructive behavior. What you may think is negative and destructive, he may not perceive it the same way as you.

---He does think it's a negative and destructive friendship, which is one reason I feel confused.  Your point about my expecting him to make logical and rational decisions though he's impulsive and unstable is a good point.  I have been looking at it thru "non-BPD disordered" eyes... .I'm trying to get a sense of it thru BPD eyes. The same way I have seen posts and also articles written on a BPD---NPD relationship.  I haven't seen much written on two BPDs though

[shatra]

   Based on the feedback, I may have been looking at it through a "non-BPD" lens and trying to have it make sense, which it doesn't

  Though he says it's a negative friendship, it is possible that they see the BPD instability and inconsistency in each other and are seeing what is "familiar" to them (though ulitmately it's destructive)