When they wake up mean...

[formflier]

Boy... .lately my wife seems to be going through each page of her playbook.

Lots of stress lately.  She finished a big job application last night.  It was cause for celebration.  We went to bed and I massaged on her, we talked, seemed relaxed around each other and finally were intimate.  SheF expressed how great it was. 

Basically a "top of the world" experience after several tough days.

First thing out of her mouth this morning was...

(note... I'm still all hooked up to cpap... splints... .all that)

"Last night was great... but it doesn't fix anything.  All of the stuff you are doing doesn't have anything to do with your disability.  You are just being an a$$hole.  I'm getting nothing from all of this.  You need to listen to me and change."

I unhook, rub my eyes and hugged on her.  Goal was to "slow it down".

I let her know I would like to talk to her about this more when she gets home from work today.

She stomped off.  Was muttering in other room.  By time she went out the door she seemed only "slightly pissed"

My guess is that the great time we had last night "invalidated" her view of me and the r/s... .and pushed her towards more meanness.

Probably was laying their stewing about it for a while before she said something.

FF

[Fian]

Maybe it would be good to have a clearing of the air discussion with her.  Sit down and list all of the times where she has been mean over the past few weeks.  Ask her what is bothering her.  Maybe there is something tangible here.

[CrazyChuck]

You are just being an a$$hole.  I'm getting nothing from all of this.  You need to listen to me and change."

She can have control if she is "getting nothing from all of this". I also get all three of these from my BPDw very often. I think it is all about control.

[formflier]

 

I agree on the control comment. 

She "gets it"... .that I don't do what she says... .jump when she says jump and all of that.

She also doesn't like the speed at which I do things...

I'm the tortoise... .I guess she can sometimes be the hare.

I am definitely a fan of "slow and steady wins the race".

FF

[Cat Familiar]

To address your topic: When they wake up mean... .I wonder if your wife has an active dream life.

Both BPD husbands have told me about the most elaborate dreams. The telling of them can take a half hour (no exaggeration) and the details are so differentiated that just hearing about them is like watching a big budget movie.

On the Meyers-Briggs spectrum, you are a ESTJ and I'm a INTJ. I'm wondering if the TJ (for those of you who are not familiar with this model--the T signifies that we use our thinking process more than our feeling process; and the J means that we are more comfortable with getting things done than leaving them open-ended)--so perhaps the TJ has something to do with less explicit dreams.

To analyze my hypothesis: FF--do you dream in technicolor with a lot of details?

I typically go to sleep, wake up and occasionally remember a fragment of a dream. Maybe three or four times a year I will have a dream that actually has a story attached. Usually it's a very boring story, such as shopping in a grocery store and looking at different brands of tofu (I swear, that was an actual dream!). So I never wake up with any lingering emotional content from a dream.

But my husband will have terrifying, exciting, hurtful, exhausting dreams. Many times he will dream that I left him or did something unkind to him. And then he will be mad at me for the rest of the day--or suspicious, or whatever.

So, after this long-winded explanation, I'm wondering if your wife has dreams that incline her to wake up mean.

[formflier]

 

Cat familiar,

My wife is an INFP... .and from what I remember... .was solid on that scale as well.

Yes... she will have big dreams... .many times of me misbehaving... .and tell me about it... .as if I am responsible.

I rarely remember dreams and when I do, it is similar to you where they are bland.

So... .if we assume that this is dream driven.

What "tactic" do I use to help the situation?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Gosh, I don't know how to get them to realize it was just a dream, not a symbolic representation that we are doing something bad behind their backs. But you know how feelings=facts and it seems like dreams=true messages from their unconscious.

I've admired my husband's abilities to have such colorful and elaborate dreams. I guess validation might work. Wow! You get such entertainment at night, while I just have boring sleep. But I guess you've got to put up with some of those uncomfortable dreams in order to get such fun ones.

I don't know about your wife, but my husband has a bit of narcissism (thankfully not as much as the first husband). So if I tell him that I'm envious of his dreaming ability, he takes that as a compliment.

Oh, and my husband is an INFP too!

[ColdEthyl]

Cat familiar,

My wife is an INFP... .and from what I remember... .was solid on that scale as well.

Yes... she will have big dreams... .many times of me misbehaving... .and tell me about it... .as if I am responsible.

I rarely remember dreams and when I do, it is similar to you where they are bland.

So... .if we assume that this is dream driven.

What "tactic" do I use to help the situation?

FF

This is true for my husband, too. The funny thing is when we first started dating, he told me his ex would be angry at him for things that happened in a dream and how ridiculous that was... .fast forward to now where he tells me about his vivid dreams (they are always wrapped in some sort of frustration... .IE he's planting in the garden and no matter what he does the rabbits keep eating the crops, his ex is stealing our dogs and he's running too slow to catch up, etc. And in the dreams where I am misbehaving... .he will tell me about it, say "At least I'm not mad at you all day about it" which... .I have never done because that's silly.

Then... .when I get home from work he will tell me how mad at me he is about it   

[ColdEthyl]

Gosh, I don't know how to get them to realize it was just a dream, not a symbolic representation that we are doing something bad behind their backs. But you know how feelings=facts and it seems like dreams=true messages from their unconscious.

I've admired my husband's abilities to have such colorful and elaborate dreams. I guess validation might work. Wow! You get such entertainment at night, while I just have boring sleep. But I guess you've got to put up with some of those uncomfortable dreams in order to get such fun ones.

I don't know about your wife, but my husband has a bit of narcissism (thankfully not as much as the first husband). So if I tell him that I'm envious of his dreaming ability, he takes that as a compliment.

Oh, and my husband is an INFP too!

Oh yeah... .this is not surprising. I am also INTJ, though my husband never took the test. If I answer it for him... .he would get INFP. He's also a narcissist, so usually buttering him up with compliments soothes him more than anything else. He needs to be the smartest, the best, the greatest.

[JohnLove]

WOW, what an interesting thread. I, too have felt my dreams are sometimes SO real and if they are a "message"... .and I think sometimes they were. Some of my most profound problem solving solutions were when I was asleep... .sometimes. But then, I can differentiate dreams from reality when I come to.

But this probably explains a LOT with my exuBPD... .she had sleeping problems for many years and was mean and bashed stuff around when waking up late in the mornings. I just thought she was sick and tired of living with me due to her comments. I also thought she had no serotonin release... .but she probably spent a lot of time in bed in REM (dreaming) sleep.

This probably explains her disordered behaviour... .I could see "patterns" to her dysfunction while in the relationship and was trying (with 0 physiological training) to figure out what was really wrong with her. I am 8 years out of that relationship.

It was not until I found myself in another BPD style relationship with my dBPDgf and went on to find this site (and others) that clarity finally ensued.

I guess I'm of the slow and steady variety too.  

[Cat Familiar]

Perhaps the simplest explanation of why some remember their dreams and others don't is that remember-ers tend to be light sleepers and wake frequently during the night, while non-remember-ers tend to sleep deeply.

My husband has difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep, while I sleep soundly and seldom wake up in the middle of the night.

So it could be that "waking up mean" is a result of sleep deprivation.

[formflier]

So it could be that "waking up mean" is a result of sleep deprivation.

My wife tends to be a night owl.  All of the females on her side of the family have "BPDish" traits and odd sleep habits.

Her mom will sleep in a  bed but only with the TV blaring.  Lots of complaints from her about not sleeping well.

Her sister is a night owl as well, sleeps with TV blaring (but usually not in bed).  So, she will be up "working" on a project, while sitting on sofa watching a TV show (blaring to the point of making my head hurt if I am in the room).  You will find her the next morning in an odd position on the sofa, sound asleep.  If you turn off the TV, she will usually wake up and be grumpy that she was disturbed.

Wife has pushed hard for a TV in our bedroom for years... .one of the few battles that I have won.  My wife feels comfortable with TV on, laptop on her lap and smartphone in her hand (paying attention to all of them) and then want to engage me in a detailed conversation about something.

She feels "controlled" that I won't do that... .but I can't form a cohesive thought with all the crap going on. 

Wife sometimes falls asleep on couch with TV going... .but not to the extent that her mom and sister do.

Wife will get in bed with me and stare at her phone for long time... .and get upset about what she reads on there.

I've gone through multiple sleep studies and have had several good years of sleep (as long as she leaves me alone).

My couple years of bad sleep while I got all that sorted out was really bad. 

Anyway... .long post to say that I agree... .getting a good nights sleep would help them. 

However... .that would require that they follow "the rules" about good sleep hygiene... .or that they would "submit" to a dr evaluating their sleep habits. 

Not going to happen.

Sigh...

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I am an INTP and I usually don't have any dreams as well, although I have had some pretty terrible dreams but they always coordinate to a particularly traumatic time with my husband. I have even had sleep paralysis after a bad fight with my husband, it's one of the most frightening things I have experienced. But I was sort of sleeping with one eye open at the time. My husband will have dreams of me running away from him or hiding from him and he will wake up total and utterly ready to divorce me because of these dreams. To him they are his mind trying to tell him something, a message that I am screwing around on him. I know they pull up all kinds of feelings in him and feelings=facts.

My husband will also go to sleep in the living room not every night but many nights with the TV on. When I wake up in the morning I will turn it off and he will get angry with me that I woke him up. When we first met he always wanted the radio on and it would drive me nuts because I need white noise to sleep, TV and radio will keep me up all night unless I am dead tired.