Avoiding intimacy... is this common?

[Butterfly12]

The last time my husband and I were "intimate" with each other was 3 years ago when I conceived our youngest child. Since that time, he lived here for a year, then he had a court ordered sentence to not see me for a year, and now it's been a year of just plain separation. In the year we lived together and did not have any physical affection with each other, it definitely made for our relationship to sour. I can see the disconnect that became between us. He hated that I wanted affection, even if it wasn't sexual, and saw it as "trying to manipulate" him. He thinks even now, after three years, that I will attempt to "seduce" him for the purpose of manipulating him.

I understand how strange this is... .and I wonder if other pwBPD (in particular undiagnosed ones) have this as a piece of the puzzle.

It makes me completely understand why our disconnect is so huge. The connection of loving affection is a huge part of a loving relationship... .and if it's just rejected, refused and defused... .well... .

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[juniorswailing]

In the space of a couple of months I went from full on, all the time, everything you wanted to nothing.

So although the time scales are different the answer would seem to be yes.

[ChangingOfTides]

3 years is a long time!

I am currently going through a similar period with my wife, not that there is no intimacy, but it is very little compared to half a year ago. And many times when i show her some love or intimacy she just freezes cold.

She has had a lot to go through the past year, our typical BPDvsNon relational turmoil, a failed suicide attempt and also seems to be approaching a threshold in her therapy, but is trying to avoid that ultimate confrontation i feel.

In schematherapy - I dont know if you are familiar with it - there is a mode that BPDs tend to fall back to to escape stresses, an avoidant coping mechanism that is involuntary: the ":)ETACHED PROTECTOR". In this mode they block their emotions and empathy, it makes them run like a robot most of the time. On the outside, it may often look like they are doing fine, but inside they feel dead. They ussually also create a distance to or reject loved ones in this mode, and seek distractions or addictions to sooth themselves in absense of emotions.

Every time i talk to her about that lack of intimacy she gets angry, blaming and punitive, telling me i want to push her, and that she is mad at me for everything that i did wrong the past years... .And at the end she ussually tells me that she still loves me and wants to grow old together, yet cannot get in touch with her emotions, and she needs time to process all that happened. In the 20 minutes that these conversations ussually take, all the different BPD Schema Modes show up in turn to give me their slice on the situation: ANGRY CHILD, PUNITIVE PARENT, ABANDONNED CHILD ... .And its very stressfull and demanding for the both of us.

[Butterfly12]

wow.

I've never heard of the BPD schema modes. I guess I should check them out.

ChangingOfTides, the experience with your wife sounds soo familiar. Wow. I thought I was loosing my mind.

[ChangingOfTides]

in a way, it does make you loose your mind, cause in their view you're the one to blame.

I made my big mistakes as well, have my own pitfalls to deal with too... .

So you feel guilty, sad and abandonned when the intimacy scales back, but its actually more about them not being able to face their own strong emotions, to be attached trustfully and find a healty perspective to invest into the relationship, often its all or nothing... .

[Butterfly12]

It was the births of our children that really threw him. The huge responsibility.

[ChangingOfTides]

Yeah, kids and the responsability they bring can be a big stress, and it impacts your relationship, its not just about you 2... .

[byfaith]

":)ETACHED PROTECTOR". In this mode they block their emotions and empathy

 Never heard of it called this but this is exactly how my wife is.

We have not been together intimate for 3 years. I can't even touch her. I know she is going through her problems but the rejection is eating me like a cancer. I don't even think she wants her mind to even go into a romantic place with me because she is scared to where it will lead. This messes with my head.

She has finally chosen to go to therapy. She has completed her 2nd session in a week. I am just asking God to get her and me through this.  I do feel like I am loosing my mind. I told her this morning ( I called her on my way to work) that I am doing everything I know to do to keep pulling myself up. She says she is sorry that I feel bad. I don't believe her. I hate that I feel that way.

[ChangingOfTides]

3 years is a very long time, but its hopefull that she started Therapy. Wish you all the best!

Even though it may look at times that they are okay with being in this mode, inside i dont think they are happy... .They feel empty, but dont miss intimacy either.

My wife knows herself its an avoidance strategy, she has got a great therapist who probably has a hard time breaking through it herself.

The hard thing for us is that it becomes a waiting game, where you hope your partner can open up again somewhat, but in the meantime you slowly start to become emotionally deprived. Understanding whats really going on helps in holding on though... .

Initially, when this mode came on fulltime, i tried to give her extra love and care, and tried to talk about it often, which lead to a small crisis each time after which this mode only seems to be coming on stronger.

So you probably have to do the opposite, and respect what it is and detach a bit yourself, take a loving distance so to say... .

[LilMe]

Add me to the list, ugh.  No problems in this area for 9 years.  Now just about nothing for the last year.

[byfaith]

detaching doesn't help much for me. I can do it for a day or two and then I am back to wanting and needing a romantic relationship with my spouse ( not just sex) but a relationship that will lead to that. To me sex without the feeling of being wanted is no good.

I am scared I am at a breaking point. I am mad at myself because she is now in therapy and on my end it it getting harder to deal with. My marriage is being destroyed by something that I cannot accept (or at least that's the way it feels to me) This is a need that I have to have in a marriage (not just sex). Some people do not need this to carry out a marriage. To me that is part of what makes marriage exclusive from all other relationships.

Romantic love and intimacy and a healthy sexual relationship is something I need in a marriage. (barring a physical problem) The problem I have is the absolute zero interest she has in me in that way.

I am really trying to make myself feel better without hurting my wife.

[Icthelight]

Add me to the list, ugh. 

Add me to the list too. It's going on two months of no intimacy for me but many years of very little intimacy in our marriage. My wife blames me for her lack of desire saying that I withdrew love from her throughout our marriage so she's done getting hurt. She said that I give her what she wants and when she thinks it's going to continue, I take it away, ALWAYS. She says that it's too painful for her so she's just not going to connect anymore.

The hard thing for us is that it becomes a waiting game, where you hope your partner can open up again somewhat, but in the meantime you slowly start to become emotionally deprived.

This is becoming more difficult to endure.

[ChangingOfTides]

The odd thing is, its not the sexual part i miss most, its more the genuine hugs and especially the warm pillowtalks we used to have, apart from the validation i do there is nearly no expression of emotions.

Strangely, the dogs still get those cuddles, but me and most of the kids are out of the emo-zone... .

[Butterfly12]

In our lives it's just me who gets no affection. And understanding, really, we've been separated so long, it's not a surprise. But the thing that gets me is that I did nothing. And my desire of love makes him believe I will go elsewhere to get it... .and I almost think he is waiting for that to happen so he can have an excuse to leave me.

:'(

[ChangingOfTides]

In our lives it's just me who gets no affection. And understanding, really, we've been separated so long, it's not a surprise. But the thing that gets me is that I did nothing. And my desire of love makes him believe I will go elsewhere to get it... .and I almost think he is waiting for that to happen so he can have an excuse to leave me.

:'(

Sometimes it feels like that to me too... .BPD emotions are not logical, and their view has no shades of grey.

So they dont see that their fear of rejection and abandonment that makes them take such distance and initiates devaluation, actually is the only thing that would cause the abandonment they fear... .

Its a circular process, where they focus mostly on signs of abandonment, and dont even see the love they do or could get... .or are able to trust it... .

To us it may look like they are just sitting it out till we leave, to them they are sitting it out till they feel we wont leave, but its nearly impossible to convince them of this... .They  have to come to that point themselves... .

[ChangingOfTides]

detaching doesn't help much for me. I can do it for a day or two and then I am back to wanting and needing a romantic relationship with my spouse ( not just sex) but a relationship that will lead to that. To me sex without the feeling of being wanted is no good.

I am scared I am at a breaking point. I am mad at myself because she is now in therapy and on my end it it getting harder to deal with. My marriage is being destroyed by something that I cannot accept (or at least that's the way it feels to me) This is a need that I have to have in a marriage (not just sex). Some people do not need this to carry out a marriage. To me that is part of what makes marriage exclusive from all other relationships.

Romantic love and intimacy and a healthy sexual relationship is something I need in a marriage. (barring a physical problem) The problem I have is the absolute zero interest she has in me in that way.

I am really trying to make myself feel better without hurting my wife.

Well, i have good days and horrible days, on the bad days it sometimes feels like my wife is dead and i am living with a ghost. I am actually grieving on those days.

Yet i am holding on, and try to work on creating good days, for us, for the kids and in the hope that part of the hopes i have for us as a family will someday be restored.

I hope her therapy will bring her to a point where she is more stable, more trusting, maybe we will someday do some joint therapy sessions, when she is in a better state again.

But for now she is in such a dark place herself with a bipolar depression on top, she says herself she is in pause mode, an identity crisis, and the relationship is as well. I have to give her time... .

And i try to switch the focus onto myself, work out my own issues and get through this, its really hard.

[Butterfly12]

What's challenging is feeling like I am waiting for him to decide whether or not he wants to be a part of our family or not. He lives separately and has for two years. He says he can't trust me. And so I sit and wait. And wait and wait. How long do we wait? Is it true that they can't be relied on to make the heavy decisions in their lives like whether to stay or go? And if that's true, and I feel devoted to our family and our marriage... .how long do we standstill?

Last night he came over to take our middle child to dance class. I've had a fever for almost a week- a cold and/or strep throat, and he was so kind, so like the old days it was heartbreaking. He actually allowed us to have brief seconds of physical contact. I tried to not be too thrilled... .but it's been years. Literally.

Sometimes I feel like I hold on for brief windows of hope.

[ChangingOfTides]

Sometimes I feel like I hold on for brief windows of hope.

I know the feeling, these rare moments that a spark of what used to be shines through the wall of emptiness and distance, keep the hope going. And how long can we hold on to the hope?

In the end, you have to give yourself some credit to, what we do and put up with is not easy, so we are stronger then we may credit ourselves.

[Butterfly12]

True. Thanks. I forget that.