Wife left with 4 kids, 1+ month ago

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Here goes nothing.

My current situation is this; My wife (28 yo) left me and took the 4 kids (8 months - 6yo) over a month ago and checked herself into a Domestic Abuse Shelter. She had been reading pop-psychology ("Emotionally Destructive Marriage" by Leslie Vernick), talking to others (non-professionals), spying on me, documenting my actions, and planning what she might do for at least a month before that. I didn't know any of this was going on and she never came to me saying that she wanted us to receive any sort of counsel. I am seen as an abuser by her, possibly her family, possibly others she talked to, legal consultants, therapists, etc. She told others that she was fearful our household was not safe and that she feared physical abuse. I have never been physical or hit her barring a situation a few years ago when I reacted to her physically abusing me (hitting in groin, head, back, chest, legs, etc)  while I was trying to sleep after an argument. She wanted to continue arguing and so thought it a good idea to hit me. After a few minutes of taking it while (literally) lying down, I became irate and picked up the mattress which I had been laying on and flipped it over towards the wall while she was between it. I then said "Is that what you want b___? Now none of us will get sleep" and left the room to lie on the couch and sleep. I understand that my actions were wrong in this event and I gave in to anger. We had discussed it many times since and I had expressed my sorrow and asked her to forgive me. So in general I don't see the physical abuse part of her claims, but she feared it.

Another aspect, which was the initial issue she, was emotional abuse. The physical abuse accusations came out later so I am not sure if she felt she had to raise the stakes to get more attention or what. Some of the emotional aspects I can see when looking at the descriptions. I am expressive and forgot how fragile emotionally she can be since it had seemed she had been pretty stable. I haven't until recently considered she might be borderline until I talked with a professional about all of this and he was able to come to that conclusion. Since I have read about it a bit more and it has been like the great "Eureka!" moment you never want to have.

Almost every living situation she has been in has been "abusive" in her perception, including her parents, my parents, and my friends (there 2 yo was also abusive). She has always had someone around her that she was afraid of, often she feels abused in other interpersonal relationships. She has frequently sought people to "rescue" her from her "abusers". After reading about "The Karpman Drama Triangle" I had another "Eureka!". These drama triangles have been created in our relationship many times and before our relationship.

I have rescued her from her parents, ex-boyfriend, and employers. Her parents had warned me not to date her and I think at the time they had said they thought she had a psychosis but I can't remember the details of it. She had told me to not listen to her parents because they were abusive, controlling, manipulative and would try and turn me against her. Which they did. While we were dating she called her parents and I crying because she was afraid while overseas. She seemed extremely terrified, this was the first time I had seen this in her. She claimed she felt abandoned, isolated and feared a man who was living in the next room over from her who she though watched pornography. Her parents refused to rescue her and encouraged me to not help also. Well after listening to my terrified girlfriend plead with me I flew to meet her. She then felt consoled and displayed no extreme emotions. During our dating relationship I saw her experience incapacitating fear (crying and shaking) and rage also while "seeing" or "perceiving" demons.

Well we got married since, to some extent I was still the good guy at that point. I quickly became the bad guy though and we started going to marital counseling. It was a nightmare. Eventually the therapist brought in another therapist so we had both a male and a female. She was also doing individual counseling. The drama continued to escalate until I eventually stepped out. Things died down and began to stabilize.

Through our marriage, almost 7 years now, there have been a few attempts by her to create "the drama triangle" and find someone to rescue her. Some have been able to diffuse her (which is not the outcome she desires), she have become overwhelmed, and some have enabled her to escalate the drama.

Most recently she reached out to people who know her and I very little, if at all, and had told them that I she thought she was in an abusive relationship. They have enabled to to take the action to seek shelter and separate. Now she is demanding that I enter a domestic violence treatment class (it says for batterers), receive counseling, and be accountable to others. She has said that after 3 months of this she will evaluate the situation to see if it is "safe" to return.

I have openly communicated with her (we had 1 month of no communication while she was in the shelter due to there rules) my hopes for our healthy reunification while at the same time having great doubts and knowing this could lead to divorce since the day she left. She mostly has communicated in anger and contempt while saying coldly she loves me and wants to be together.

She has almost every symptom of BPD as I have read it after a counselor came to an unofficial diagnose after I told him what had been going on and some of our history, her history and the history of her parents.

I know I have some things to work on and this situation has cause massive stress and confusion. I need to get help, live stably and create good habits.

I need to know how to work well with her in this situation. I fear her return and a worse living situation being established or her running away again, talking the kids or pressing charges, etc. I really don't know what she will do when she is like this and have been unable to fully trust her during the course of our marriage.

Of course I worry for the children also as they are young and confused. She tells the children ":)addy is being mean to mommy."

!

What should I do?

[DownTime]

Here goes nothing.

My current situation is this; My wife (28 yo) left me and took the 4 kids (8 months - 6yo) over a month ago and checked herself into a Domestic Abuse Shelter. She had been reading pop-psychology ("Emotionally Destructive Marriage" by Leslie Vernick), talking to others (non-professionals), spying on me, documenting my actions, and planning what she might do for at least a month before that. I didn't know any of this was going on and she never came to me saying that she wanted us to receive any sort of counsel. I am seen as an abuser by her, possibly her family, possibly others she talked to, legal consultants, therapists, etc. She told others that she was fearful our household was not safe and that she feared physical abuse. I have never been physical or hit her barring a situation a few years ago when I reacted to her physically abusing me (hitting in groin, head, back, chest, legs, etc)  while I was trying to sleep after an argument. She wanted to continue arguing and so thought it a good idea to hit me. After a few minutes of taking it while (literally) lying down, I became irate and picked up the mattress which I had been laying on and flipped it over towards the wall while she was between it. I then said "Is that what you want b___? Now none of us will get sleep" and left the room to lie on the couch and sleep. I understand that my actions were wrong in this event and I gave in to anger. We had discussed it many times since and I had expressed my sorrow and asked her to forgive me. So in general I don't see the physical abuse part of her claims, but she feared it.

Another aspect, which was the initial issue she, was emotional abuse. The physical abuse accusations came out later so I am not sure if she felt she had to raise the stakes to get more attention or what. Some of the emotional aspects I can see when looking at the descriptions. I am expressive and forgot how fragile emotionally she can be since it had seemed she had been pretty stable. I haven't until recently considered she might be borderline until I talked with a professional about all of this and he was able to come to that conclusion. Since I have read about it a bit more and it has been like the great "Eureka!" moment you never want to have.

Almost every living situation she has been in has been "abusive" in her perception, including her parents, my parents, and my friends (there 2 yo was also abusive). She has always had someone around her that she was afraid of, often she feels abused in other interpersonal relationships. She has frequently sought people to "rescue" her from her "abusers". After reading about "The Karpman Drama Triangle" I had another "Eureka!". These drama triangles have been created in our relationship many times and before our relationship.

I have rescued her from her parents, ex-boyfriend, and employers. Her parents had warned me not to date her and I think at the time they had said they thought she had a psychosis but I can't remember the details of it. She had told me to not listen to her parents because they were abusive, controlling, manipulative and would try and turn me against her. Which they did. While we were dating she called her parents and I crying because she was afraid while overseas. She seemed extremely terrified, this was the first time I had seen this in her. She claimed she felt abandoned, isolated and feared a man who was living in the next room over from her who she though watched pornography. Her parents refused to rescue her and encouraged me to not help also. Well after listening to my terrified girlfriend plead with me I flew to meet her. She then felt consoled and displayed no extreme emotions. During our dating relationship I saw her experience incapacitating fear (crying and shaking) and rage also while "seeing" or "perceiving" demons.

Well we got married since, to some extent I was still the good guy at that point. I quickly became the bad guy though and we started going to marital counseling. It was a nightmare. Eventually the therapist brought in another therapist so we had both a male and a female. She was also doing individual counseling. The drama continued to escalate until I eventually stepped out. Things died down and began to stabilize.

Through our marriage, almost 7 years now, there have been a few attempts by her to create "the drama triangle" and find someone to rescue her. Some have been able to diffuse her (which is not the outcome she desires), she have become overwhelmed, and some have enabled her to escalate the drama.

Most recently she reached out to people who know her and I very little, if at all, and had told them that I she thought she was in an abusive relationship. They have enabled to to take the action to seek shelter and separate. Now she is demanding that I enter a domestic violence treatment class (it says for batterers), receive counseling, and be accountable to others. She has said that after 3 months of this she will evaluate the situation to see if it is "safe" to return.

I have openly communicated with her (we had 1 month of no communication while she was in the shelter due to there rules) my hopes for our healthy reunification while at the same time having great doubts and knowing this could lead to divorce since the day she left. She mostly has communicated in anger and contempt while saying coldly she loves me and wants to be together.

She has almost every symptom of BPD as I have read it after a counselor came to an unofficial diagnose after I told him what had been going on and some of our history, her history and the history of her parents.

I know I have some things to work on and this situation has cause massive stress and confusion. I need to get help, live stably and create good habits.

I need to know how to work well with her in this situation. I fear her return and a worse living situation being established or her running away again, talking the kids or pressing charges, etc. I really don't know what she will do when she is like this and have been unable to fully trust her during the course of our marriage.

Of course I worry for the children also as they are young and confused. She tells the children ":)addy is being mean to mommy."

!

What should I do?

[ForeverDad]

First, take a few breaths.  If you haven't seen the children at all since she left, a month now, then you definitely need solid legal advice.  Get a few consultations with family law attorneys.  See what options and strategies they suggest.  Sadly, you're in an uphill struggle, blocked from the children and in an uphill struggle to just be a parent.

Frankly, divorce is staring you in the face.  You need legal help to be sure you don't walk into any traps or innocent bloopers.  Yes, divorce can be avoided if she seeks meaningful therapy and diligently applies it in her life, thinking and behaviors.  Nothing you wrote indicates she will do that.  While she 'could' change for the better, you can't base your life and the children's lives on that.

I would not hold out hope "that after 3 months of this she will evaluate the situation to see if it is 'safe' to return".  Just think, in order to get to that point she is demanding that you posture as an abuser seeking help.  Odds are that is so she can later claim you had to be an abuser to take the sessions.

You have to always state you are not an abuser or controller.  (Remember, incidents years ago mean very little and are generally excluded as 'stale' or too old for court consideration.

Probably the first thing you need to do, after getting legal advice and selecting a lawyer, is head to domestic/family court to get an order to have parenting time with your children.  Like my ex, she will almost surely oppose any contact, trying to say she's fearful and so are the children.  (She's had a month to try to influence them.)  Court may order children's services to investigate.  You've been in contact with many professionals over the years such as the counselors, those are the ones that the ones assigned to your case need to interview.

Have you been documenting her demands?  (I recorded all contact, recorder was in my pocket or out of sight, so that I had proof I wasn't the one misbehaving or being the aggressor.  It also helped me sleep at night.)

What do you think about her parents?  Previously she had conned you that they were the abusers.  They had warned you about her.  Do you think they would stand up for you (and their grandchildren)?

Really, as I reread your post, she sounds very much like my Ex.  Too much.  Besides having Borderline PD she may also be co-morbid with Paranoid PD.  However, the labels mean little to the court, especially from you, the court does not like spouses to "play doctor".  The counselors and therapists can say it but not us commoners.  So what the court pays attention to are the behaviors.  Be squeaky clean.  Court will pay far more attention to the Parenting behaviors (parent with children) rather than Adult behaviors (spouse vs spouse and other adults).

[Mutt]

Hi FSMITH010,

I'm sorry you're going through all of this. I can relate with that. My ex had called DV shelters because she suspected I was abusive, she said that they confirmed that I was abusive. She had started a distortion campaign months before that, she took all 4 kids and left. It was an uphill battle, but I managed to get a court order. I don't have legal advise for you but I agree with Foreverdad, you're facing divorce here. You don't have to go through this alone.

[david]

My ex went to a woman's abuse group in the beginning too. They were convinced I was an abuser. They went to court to support her. The three would give me evil stares, etc. That changed after my SS's (her boys from her first marriage) testified in my behalf. It didn't add up with the stories she was saying. Eventually I stopped seeing them in court. I don't know whether ex distanced herself or they initiated the distance.

NEVER say you were abusive in court. One incident from years ago is something you don't need to bring up.

My ex convinced the courts I had anger issues. I was ordered to go to an anger assessment. (money) The results showed that I had no anger issues what so ever. It still cost me a couple thousand dollars for the process and then I had to go back to court again (money). It is a good legal strategy for the opposing side by forcing you to pay for a multitude of things to see your kids.

Figuring out a strategy to see the kids is what you need to focus on.

If your wife does "change" and get better you will know it. If that happens then your actions to see the kids and protect them will be understood by her. It will require a lot of time and work on her part if she has BPD.

[ForeverDad]

When I was between orders - after separation and before the divorce process kicked in - my ex blocked all father-child contact.  It took a month to get a lawyer and complete paperwork to file for divorce and another two months waiting for the initial hearing for the temp order.  Magistrate confirmed from her that she hadn't let me contact our preschooler for over 3 months.  I had high hopes the court would come down swift and hard on her for such unilateral actions.  No, all the magistrate did was say "I'll fix that" and order that I get alternate weekends and an evening in between and pay retroactive child support.  I was stunned.  I didn't get any compensatory make up time.  She didn't get a lecture, finger wagging or anything.

Remember, it is a judicial system, not a justice system.

If you want makeup time, ask for it.  You may not get any extra time if you don't ask for extra time.  This is your life in the balance, for the lawyers, judges and other professionals it is another day at work.

In a case like this she will be asking, demanding 99.9% control.  If you go and meekly ask for crumbs such as the 'standard' alternate weekends it may be a struggle to get even that.  A good negotiator asks for more that what is 'fair'.  That will leave you with room to not get everything you seek but still walk out with a schedule you can live with.

And since temp orders in high conflict cases can last for a year or two and sometimes even longer, make sure there is clear provision for vacations, holiday schedules, etc.  Once a temp order is written it is very, very hard to get it modified and expensive to get it clarified.

Some 11 months into my divorce case the court's social worker who conducted the parenting investigation recommended I get equal time.  Nothing changed.  Another 6 months and the Custody Evaluator's initial report considered by the lawyer and main judge recommended "Mother should immediately lose temporary custody".  Nothing changed.  It was only after we settled minutes before Trial Day started and a couple months later the temp order ended in the Final Decree that things changed.  After 23.5 months mired in the divorce process.

[DownTime]

Currently she is out of state. She left directly from the shelter and flew to her parents house.

I don't know how this complicates "visitation" and custodial rights etc.

[david]

You need to talk to an attorney to figure out what you can and can not do. Every state has different rules.

Also the longer you wait the more the courts may view it as you being okay with things the way they are.

It may be a good idea to talk to several attorneys in your area. Once they talk to you they can not represent your wife because of a conflict. If you know all the good attorneys in your area this may help.

[formflier]

Ask your attorney... .you need one quick... .where the divorce will be "tried".  What state's laws govern.

While I hope I never have to use it... .my state has fairly good laws to force children to return to this state.  Even if they have been out of the state for up to 6 months.

Clock is ticking... .find a lawyer and get to work on this.

 

FF

[Mutt]

FSMith010,

I just want to add, lawyers will give you a free consultation up to a half hour before they tell you what their retainer fees are. Call a family lawyer, that should be your first question what laws are in different states.

[ForeverDad]

Currently she is out of state. She left directly from the shelter and flew to her parents house.

I don't know how this complicates "visitation" and custodial rights etc.

This could be phrased as fleeing with the kids.  By turning to the court you can get an order for her to either return with the children or send the children back for you to have parenting time.

"Warning, Will Robinson!" - quoting the robot on Lost in Space.  What dangers?

(1) The longer the children are away, the harder it may be to get them back and the harder to get more than minimal time with them.  You need to view this as parenting blocked without substantiated cause.  She can claim whatever she wants, she's already doing that, gathering negative advocates.  What counts is whether the court can be convinced with documentation that you are either an okay dad or substantively abusive, neglecting or endangering to the children.  That she claims to be fearful is something that the court may at least temporarily say, "Okay, you don't want him to be near you, that's okay, but the children are a different matter, he is their father and without proof otherwise he gets to parent."  (However, once she learns that she can keep you away from her but not the kids, that's when she'll focus on claims of child abuse, neglect and endangerment.)

(2) Thus far you haven't turned to court and the legal process.  That inaction could put you at risk of her keeping control of the children.  She left to her parents, is that in another state?  You run a risk if you continue to delay, at some point she could file for custody in that distant location.  Federal law has synchronized the state rules on what constitutes 'residency'.  A person has to give some documentation that he or she has been residing in a state for six months before filing for custody issues.  For all you know she has been quick to get an apartment, PO Box, account statements or utilities in her name sent to that distant area.  After meeting that minimum requirement she can file there and then you would have to conduct your divorce and or custody case there, putting you are a severe disadvantage for travel, visitation, etc, you'd be a stranger in a strange land, almost.

So get local legal advice.  Do your best to keep the divorce, custody and parenting issues local.  Court will order her to return to have all issues handled locally.  Well, unless you want to move to her area and have the case there.

If she's fled to her parents it is possible she is trying to convince them she is the victim/target and you're the abuser/controller.  They may have been on your side years ago when they warned you about their daughter.  That may not be the case now, you don't know how thoroughly black you've been painted.  Feel your way about that for now.

[sanemom]

Definitely get to the court ASAP.  Even if you get blocked some at first, the sooner you start, the sooner you can see your kids again and the sooner you are proving to others that you are not the animal she has made you out to be.

[Panda39]

Hi FSMith010 

I agree with the others visit some lawyers and find out your rights and what your options are.  Find out what their strategies would be for handling your situation.

A couple of other things... .

Have you been in phone contact with the kids for the last month?  If not that would be something I would start doing once daily. (Don't do more because you might get accused of harrassment).  Demonstrates to them and the court that you care and are reaching out to them. 

Document when you made those calls.

I know you're getting a lot of information thrown at you but I have something else for you too.  If you can start communicating with the wife via email it is a good way to document what is going on. 

Email is really key... .

It allows you to slow down you don't have to instantaneously respond. When you don't have to respond so quickly you can really read the message and not give your first knee jerk reaction.  Is it even a legit message or is it just verbal abuse?  Do you even need to respond at all?  If you do decide to respond to any or part of an email use BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) when responding.  My SO only responded if there was a legitimate concern about one or both of the kids.  Don't engage in the drama but you might want to save those emails, actually all of the emails you never know when you need documentation or just a way to show a history of behavior.

Hope that helps.  I know how overwhelming this can all be I watched my SO go through this type of thing too.  Don't let how stressful and overwhelming it is paralize you.  For your kids sake you need to act.

We are here to help and give you support and just listen when you need to vent.

Take Care 

Panda39

[david]

Email is the best form of documentation. If ex refuses or can't email then try texting. There are apps that let you save all your texts on your computer. You need documentation for the courts. He said / she said does not carry as much weight in court.

[formflier]

 

google voice allows you to text from phone or computer.

Very handy... I use it

FF

[goateeki]

Maybe I've missed something here.  In what state is disappearing with the kids without the consent of the other parent NOT kidnapping?

[formflier]

Maybe I've missed something here.  In what state is disappearing with the kids without the consent of the other parent NOT kidnapping?

I think it is assumed that each parent has rights to the kids to go on trips and such without having to get consent.

Once there is a court order... .then... not sure if it is kidnapping... .but it is certainly violating an order.

I suppose if there was written proof of no consent... that could be different.  Getting that would most likely have only escalated conflict.

Wife says he gave consent.

Husband says he didn't...

Court will give a custody order.

Anyway... .best to just get a custody order.

FF

[ForeverDad]

While he as a father can call it kidnapping, I'm not sure how it would be referenced in legal documents if there is currently no court order regarding custody or parenting.  As FormFlier commented, if there was a court order she was violating, then yes I could call it kidnapping.  Without an order I usually phrase it in less extreme terms such as fleeing with the kids, obstructing parental contact, blocking parental contact, etc.

So is there a temporary order in place? So that you have official backing that they should come back after the weekend?

I recall that my marriage imploded when I called 911.  In my now-ex's mind she was more determined than ever to paint me black.  As soon as she got out she went to family court trying to get a protection order for herself and our preschooler.  CPS stated they had "no concerns" about me and so our son was removed from her petition and a parenting schedule was issued.  I had protection too and the house but family court gave her standard temp custody and temp majority time.  A few months later the orders were dropped and she promptly blocked all my contact with my son, even my phone calls to him were blocked.  It took a month for me to file for divorce and another 2 months to get the initial hearing for temp orders.  Meanwhile, it was 3 months blocked.  I was sure the magistrate would be exceedingly peeved at her and hoped I would get make up time and a better order the second time around.  Not to be.  He verified with her that she hadn't let me see our preschooler for 3 months, then merely said "I'll fix that" and ordered virtually the same order as before.  No lecture for her.  No make up time for me.  The court didn't care one bit what happened absent orders.

Too, while there were no orders even my police weren't helpful.  Without an order stating otherwise, both parents have equal but unspecified rights.  At least that was how it was handled in my area.  They told me to ask for help once I had an order in hand and refused to accompany me to her door.  However, when I asked what they would do if she called them, they said they'd come rushing.  Since I didn't want to risk an arrest, I waited on court for its (as it turned out) ho-hum response.

So what I'm saying is that if you're thinking "I want to show I'm fair and reasonable to the court and all the professionals" then understand it may not mean all that much how fair or nice you are.  A quote I've read here, "The one misbehaving is seldom gets consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit."  In other words, in the grand scheme of things much of what happens now will not affect the outcome overmuch.  If you keep 'possession' of the children until an order is issued, court may not see it as such a big thing.

Of course every situation is a least a little different.  But much of the above experiences and insights do come very close to your current dilemma.

However, FSM has to get prepared to handle more than just a runaway family or DV claims or vague DV fears.  Once she realizes that claims of DV or fearfulness probably won't have long term impact on the court's view of his parenting, she will like add on horrendous allegations of child abuse, child neglect and child endangerment.  That's what my Ex did.  There was nothing she wouldn't stoop to allege.  In her mind she had to do anything and everything to (1) paint me as black as possible, (2) make me appear worse than her and (3) retaliate/punish me.  It could have been much scarier for me, based on her allegations, if I had a daughter.

[david]

FD is right. My ex filed a protection order and tried to get me kicked out of our house. The judge gave her the protection but didn't kick me out ? Ex moved back in a few days later. She left a week later. That protection order lasted for a year. A few months after that she filed another protection order. When that one lapsed she filed again. After that she claimed I was physically abusing our youngest. She took him to the pediatrician and nothing came of it. She then filed with CPS that I was abusing our youngest. CPS determined there was no substance to her claims. Finally she claimed I assaulted her. I was locked up for the weekend. Went to trial and was charged with a misdemeanor of assault. I was found guilty of disorderly conduct as a summary offense and sentenced to two weeks in jail. Every attorney I have talked to since that time said I was not telling the entire truth. When they looked up my record they could not believe I went to jail for a summary offense of disorderly conduct. I never touched her in any way but I had to take a leave of absence as a school teacher until I could get my record expunged. That is five years which just ended. I purchased a video recorder and and also an audio recorder and have them with me at all times. Ex knows I have them and has made several attempts to make me stop since it is not allowed in our state. She has brought it up in court and I was yelled at by the judge. She brought it up in other situations too. My atty has told me to continue since she knows what I am doing. I can't think of another way to protect myself and still see our two boys.I purchased them in 2010 and haven't had a single allegation since that time. All the other bs happened from 2007 to 2010.

[ForeverDad]

Your inclination will be to beg for some crumbs, to see your kids again and you could be relieved to get the 'standard' alternate weekends many fathers get.  You're a humble father and have no inclination to overreach yourself seeking too much from court.  However, it won't be wrong — perhaps a bit of a reach but certainly not wrong — to file asking for custody and majority time.  Since you may not get it, especially not at first, then why ask for it?  Several reasons.

• The reason your spouse is bad-mouthing you so horrendously is to scare and shock you into submission and quiescence.  Knowing that, a minimalistic response will work against you.  She will feel empowered, enabled and keep push your boundaries.



• Seeking custody and majority time consistently from Day One lets the court know that you are and want to remain a deeply involved parent, not willing to be sidelined into being a Sometimes Dad.



• Once her allegations, current and future, are deemed to be unsubstantiated, that ought to make her at least a little bit less credible to the court and other agencies.  Beware that the officials will view the past as closed and to be ignored so it is up to you to be sure they are reminded that her patterns of the past will continue until fully addressed.



• Judges try not to make one parent the winner and one parent the loser.  So you might get one who may see splitting the difference as a nifty solution, neither parent wins and both parents lose something from what they wanted.  Ponder the different outcomes of these scenarios:
  
  (1)
  
  Mother demands 100%
  
  Father 'timidly' asks for 25% (alternate weekends and a day in between)
  
  Judge splits the difference and Father gets short alternate weekends and evening in between
  
  (2)
  
  Mother demands 100%
  
  Father 'fairly' asks for 50% (alternate weekends and a day in between)
  
  Judge splits the difference and Father gets alternate weekends and overnight in between
  
  (3)
  
  Mother demands 100%
  
  Father 'assertively' asks for majority time (based on Mother's documented poor behaviors)
  
  Judge splits the difference and Father gets equal time and equal standing with Mother
  
  

No one can predict how your future will turn out.  But one thing is for sure, getting the best order you can get from the very start will limit the suffering and angst.  It will still be an uphill struggle dealing with an oppositional and blaming spouse, but better to start with a decent level of parenting rather than start in the subbasement and expend years of time and money to get out of the doghouse.

[goateeki]

I think that it's important that we not give FSMith the wrong idea on kidnapping.  If his wife disappears with the kids and their location is unknown to FSMith, then it's reasonable to conclude that she has done this intending to hide their location from FSMith.  A custody order would be irrelevant.  For example, if a father kisses his wife and kids goodbye in the morning and his wife then gets on a plane with the kids and flies to Saudi Arabia without telling a soul where she is going, then she is not just preventing the father from having custody, she is removing the kids from the home and hiding them.  The father knows nothing of their location and cannot know it because of the way in which his wife, their mother, has disappeared.  This is a fact sensitive thing and I don't see how a custody order would be relevant.  However, doing the same in violation of a custody would seem to me to add one more fact to support a finding of kidnapping.

I have no idea what state FSMith is in but if he does not know where his kids are for extended periods of time, then it's possible that a prosecutor would be interested in the situation.    

[livednlearned]

Hi FSMith010,

I recommend buying the book Splitting by Bill Eddy -- he's a former social worker who became a family law attorney. He'll help you develop what he calls "managed emotions, moderate behaviors, and flexible thinking" so you have a grounded approach when your wife dysregulates like this. Even if she returns and the two of you are able to put this behind you, it's clear that she is willing to make false allegations and engage in what is referred to as legal abuse. If she does it once, she will likely do it again. For the rest of your marriage, you will have to document as much as you can in order to protect yourself if she makes another false allegation. The laws about DV are tilted against your favor. If you want to have a level playing field, it's important to have a lot of documentation.

Whether you decide to follow through with divorce or not, it's a good idea to spend some time on the Staying board and learn effective communication techniques like validation. It may help diffuse some of her emotions, and while it may not save the marriage, it will certainly not make things worse to understand how to communicate with someone in a dysregulated BPD emotional state.

I have openly communicated with her (we had 1 month of no communication while she was in the shelter due to there rules) my hopes for our healthy reunification while at the same time having great doubts and knowing this could lead to divorce since the day she left. She mostly has communicated in anger and contempt while saying coldly she loves me and wants to be together.

Were you allowed to talk to the kids while she was in the shelter? When she said she loves you and wants to be together, did she do this by phone, or was this sent by text?

I know I have some things to work on and this situation has cause massive stress and confusion. I need to get help, live stably and create good habits.

This is a good plan. A lot of people in BPD relationships have caretaking tendencies that can make us susceptible to self-sabotage. For example, she was physically abusing you while you were in bed, and while it would've been better to respond in a way that diffused the situation, you apologize for flipping the mattress and yelling at her. A lot of us struggle with Fear, Obligation, Guilt (FOG) and absorb what are often projected emotions -- my ex used to constantly accuse me of being crazy. This is what people with BPD do, they project onto us behaviors and feelings that cannot tolerate, and then try to process them externally where it's much safer. Taken to the extreme, this can look like psychosis. Do not, under any circumstances, tell anyone that you were physically abusive. Wait until you've worked with a therapist to help you understand BPD. In court, an allegation has to be 100 percent true for it to be true. Are you a violent person? No. Did you physically abuse her? No. Being provoked to toss a mattress and yell at someone is not the same as physical abuse, especially if you are ever asked this question in court.

I need to know how to work well with her in this situation. I fear her return and a worse living situation being established or her running away again, talking the kids or pressing charges, etc. I really don't know what she will do when she is like this and have been unable to fully trust her during the course of our marriage.

So she has not pressed charges yet?

There are some good books about how to communicate with someone who has BPD, as well as boards here. We don't tend to focus on those skills as much here, the people on Staying have a better skill set when it comes to applying the skills. Even if you are just able to diffuse some of her more extreme dysregulations, that will help you if your case takes a legal turn.

Of course I worry for the children also as they are young and confused. She tells the children ":)addy is being mean to mommy."

Bill Eddy also wrote an excellent book called Don't Alienate the Kids. This, plus other books on parental alienation, are essential if you want to help the kids develop a stable sense of self independent of the distortions they hear from their mother.

There is a lot of collective wisdom on the boards. Take care of yourself by getting legal advice in case it comes to that, and take care of yourself by spending time on Staying so you have skills to help diffuse the emotional dysregulation.

Also, if I can just say this -- I don't think your wife is kidnapping the kids. In many states, kidnapping is a legal term that applies only when there is an active custody case. She has taken the kids and gone to a DV shelter. She's positioning herself to get the kids, so your next move is to figure out how things work legally to make sure there are no missteps on your part. There are a bunch of legal things you should do proactively, as safeguards, in case she recruits negative advocates who counsel her to press charges. It's also possible that she will do things to undermine her own allegations.

When I prepared to leave my BPD ex, my lawyer told me to leave if it started to feel too dangerous. She told me to put my son on the phone the night we left so that my ex could not make allegations that I was trying to alienate my son.

If it gets ugly, you're going to need documentation. For me, it became like a second job. Keep track of everything she sends you. Find out if you live in a two-party consent or one-party consent state, which will tell you whether you need her consent to record her. If you meet in person, and you're in a one-party consent state, you may want to record the interaction as a protective measure in case she tries to make an even more serious allegation against you.

Be aware, too, that some lawyers will fan the flames. You don't need that. If you hire a lawyer, you need someone who understands BPD and can take an assertive (versus a passive or aggressive approach). An aggressive approach can turn a high-conflict custody battle into a nuclear battle, and that will destroy your kids.

My advice is to read Splitting, and to pay for two or three hour-long consultations with lawyers who have experience litigating high-conflict divorces. You will at the very least learn how things work where you live, and what to do to roll back the damage done by your wife leaving with the kids.

And of course, we're here for you if you need us. You're not alone. 

LnL

[DownTime]

Small update:

I have started seeing a counselor who specializes in domestic violence. He thought the 52 week class was not a good fit for me since I wasn't convicted of anything / served time / etc. He has 22 yrs. experience which is great because he knows there is "true" domestic violence and the other kind. Basically he can sort through the b.s. He is helping me sort out my actions and her perceptions. Essentially he says it is mostly about her perceptions. 2 sessions in so far, mostly background and skills development. It is hard because it seems like my wife isn't using correct definitions of the things she accuses me of, they are more vague applications that make me seem more horrendous.

In general I think things are calming down, we have been talking more, I also have spoken with the children. She wants me to "progress" quicker and is getting a little frustrated. I think the reality of living with her parents is hitting home (who were the original abusers). I don't believe she really wants to divorce me and I am assuming that most family and friends are encouraging her to work it out with me, the one exception being the people associated with the DV shelter. She is still trying to control me and others in order to make things happen but now since professionals are becoming involved they recognize easily what she is doing.

In regards to people suggestions to use email and text; I have to say that when every either of us email or text either intentionally or unintentionally it is received negatively. The phone conversations have been a refreshing change since I can hear her voice. I know she isn't a bad person, but she got in a mess.

Thank you for your continued cares, encouragement, advice, and prayers.

It is great to know that others understand what I haven't really wanted to talk to others about since I don't seem to harm her reputation.