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Author Topic: December 2, 2015: The End of The Road  (Read 934 times)
C.Stein
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« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2015, 08:58:14 AM »

Honestly LA, I would do almost anything to hear my ex express herself in this way.  It would give me hope for a real worthwhile relationship with her.  That said the words come easier than the actions and the question here is if she is capable of sustaining this thought pattern and desire to discover herself and achieve positive lasting change within herself.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2015, 10:01:12 AM »

Tough times for you to sort out, my friend.

I honestly have to say that I was taken aback by what she had said.  Was all of what she said a lie?  Is it a mind game?  Was she further trying to hurt me by telling me those things all the while knowing that I wouldn't have a r/s with her?  Or, for a brief moment, did she remove the mask and show me her raw nerves and her true self?  Did she just show me bravery, vulnerability, and take some responsibility?

I don't know her, but I'll throw in a guess at some of those questions... .more in the context of what I would say about my wife and what I know about pwBPD in general.

Was it all a lie? Probably not.

Was it a mind game? If it was, I'd guess it was her mind game with herself that she shared with you, rather than one she intentionally was playing with you. Will it send your mind in circles chasing its tail for a week? Of course 

Was she trying to hurt you? Probably not.

Was she showing bravery and vulnerability? Probably as much as she could.

Keep in mind the nature of this disorder--her mood RIGHT NOW will dictate her entire reality. In her own mind, she will change the past and the future to match up with what she is feeling, modifying any and all facts needed to do so.

And "now, knowing you won't have a r/s with her?" Likely that makes her feel in some way safer, and makes it easier for her to share these things with you. pwBPD have both a fear of abandonment and a fear of engulfment, and generally are in a full-on panic running away from one until they slam into the other. And do an abrupt 180 without slowing down!




Back to you now... .enuf about her! How do you want to handle your professional relationship with her going forward?

Until she finds a way to recover from the BPD traits, the whole push-pull dynamic and drama you had in a romantic relationship is pretty much guaranteed to continue in an intimate friendship, and she is certain to offer/pull a level of intimacy in this friendship that isn't really appropriate for that relationship. So much that if you were to try dating (yes, I know that is a loong way off), as your date got to know you better, she would wonder What the heck is Lonely Astro doing with his ex?
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2015, 04:51:53 PM »

Back to you now... .enuf about her! How do you want to handle your professional relationship with her going forward?

Until she finds a way to recover from the BPD traits, the whole push-pull dynamic and drama you had in a romantic relationship is pretty much guaranteed to continue in an intimate friendship, and she is certain to offer/pull a level of intimacy in this friendship that isn't really appropriate for that relationship. So much that if you were to try dating (yes, I know that is a loong way off), as your date got to know you better, she would wonder What the heck is Lonely Astro doing with his ex?




Back to you now... .enuf about her! How do you want to handle your professional relationship with her going forward?

Until she finds a way to recover from the BPD traits, the whole push-pull dynamic and drama you had in a romantic relationship is pretty much guaranteed to continue in an intimate friendship, and she is certain to offer/pull a level of intimacy in this friendship that isn't really appropriate for that relationship. So much that if you were to try dating (yes, I know that is a loong way off), as your date got to know you better, she would wonder What the heck is Lonely Astro doing with his ex?

How I want to handle my professional r/s with her is an interesting question.  I'm not really sure how I want it to go.  What I mean by that is I know that I cannot have a personal relationship with her but I don't want to treat her like scum.  Yes, she's done scummy things to me this past year (whether she wants to admit them or not), but it's my choice whether or not I want to treat her like that.  I want to rise above that and take a higher road.  In times like these, I always remember the Zen quote "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional,".  Am I grieving for the perceived woman that I have lost?  Absolutely. 

Right now, I have LC with her at work and it is mostly not about personal matters.  I have to work with her (sometimes 1-1), especially since our departments are working together on a project.  When we were first assigned together, I thought it was great.  We were getting along and it was a joy to be able to be around her like that.  Our project isn't finished and won't be until the end of the year, so we have to fake it or break it at work.  It seems to be working out ok.  Over the past couple of days its like the "old days" where we were getting along great and the project is moving along.

But, where I am going to have my 'problem' is when news breaks of her seeing someone else.  I know its only a matter of time before it happens.  It's going to be so raw, so painful for me.  It may not happen in the coming days or weeks, but its going to happen (it is impossible for her to be single, I know this).  I haven't conveyed any of my feelings to her but she has to me (I am interpreting that as push/pull... .we are in the pull phase but just enough to attempt to string me along).  At least that's how I'm seeing it.  What I mean is she'll make a comment about always "being here" for me or how she "wants to be with me" but can't be or some other comment that I feel is her trying to keep me in her pocket yet allow her to do whatever she wants/feels she needs to without any consequences.  Does that make sense?

Since I will be working closely with her until the end of the year (only a few more weeks!), I plan to stay as cordial as possible but keep distancing.  Mind you, inside my heart, I want to feel the sweet embrace of her love again and don't want to let her go.  My head, however, says that I need to move on and revisit her years from now when she is (hopefully) managed and 'better', if I am in the place to do so. 

But, I felt a little relief today from my feelings on her.  The reason I say that was I had to see her to go over some designs and she was at her computer.  She was talking about buying a dog this weekend, possibly moving in with her brother, and was also looking at cars (even though she just bought one, she wants another).  For the first time, I thought of how immature all that seemed.  It was like rapidly shifting wants/desires in the course of 5 minutes.  It made me wonder what was going through her mind right then (after all, it is hard for us to imagine what its like to live with BPD).  It was just... .odd to me.  Maybe I had some FOG life or something, I don't know.  It all just seemed foreign to me.  Strange, right?
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2015, 05:08:08 PM »

Ending *ANY* romantic relationship, even one between two healthy mature people who are incompatible due to things like each having careers that are taking them to different cities, or one wanting children and one not wanting children--reasons that make a r/s unworkable without either party doing anything wrong, taking space is a natural and probably necessary thing to do.

You just cannot be emotionally intimate with that person while trying to get your heart used to the idea that you aren't in a r/s with them anymore.

Needless to say, when one partner is a pwBPD, it is only more necessary.

Just so you know--shutting her 100% out of your emotional world, not sharing your inner thoughts and feelings, not even a little bit isn't mistreating her in anyway. It is protecting yourself.

And if you find that it is hard for you to listen to her talk about her feelings, her new life without you, there is no requirement that you listen to her.

Perhaps you will want to tell her directly "I need some time to let my heart believe we are done romantically. I'll still work with you, and be civil, but may need to keep some extra distance for a few weeks or months. I'll try to do it as gently as I can. Please understand that this isn't about you, this is what I need to do to heal and move forward."

Follow that with a "I hope that someday in the future we can be close friends again." if you really feel and believe that.

None of this is "treating her like scum" or doing anything wrong.
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2015, 05:31:20 PM »

Ending *ANY* romantic relationship, even one between two healthy mature people who are incompatible due to things like each having careers that are taking them to different cities, or one wanting children and one not wanting children--reasons that make a r/s unworkable without either party doing anything wrong, taking space is a natural and probably necessary thing to do.

You just cannot be emotionally intimate with that person while trying to get your heart used to the idea that you aren't in a r/s with them anymore.

Needless to say, when one partner is a pwBPD, it is only more necessary.

Just so you know--shutting her 100% out of your emotional world, not sharing your inner thoughts and feelings, not even a little bit isn't mistreating her in anyway. It is protecting yourself.

And if you find that it is hard for you to listen to her talk about her feelings, her new life without you, there is no requirement that you listen to her.

Perhaps you will want to tell her directly "I need some time to let my heart believe we are done romantically. I'll still work with you, and be civil, but may need to keep some extra distance for a few weeks or months. I'll try to do it as gently as I can. Please understand that this isn't about you, this is what I need to do to heal and move forward."

Follow that with a "I hope that someday in the future we can be close friends again." if you really feel and believe that.

None of this is "treating her like scum" or doing anything wrong.

All of what you said makes sense.  Everything is just raw to me right now and (I know its the BPD) it's weird at the same time because she seems like she doesn't want me to go away but she doesn't want to be with me, either.  It's confusing to me on an emotional level.  Logically, I know that I am only one cog of the clock that is her.  What I mean by that is I know she's saying those things to me and at the same time I can't help but feel that she has another on the line.

I guess this is where a lot of us become stuck.  We find ourselves asking "what if I am wrong about this?  What if I am making the wrong decision by leaving?"  I know the truth is that I am not and that I have to do so, but I still wonder.  I say that because I am in the minimizing phase right now (she wasn't that good, but she wasn't that bad, either.  Maybe it'll be much better in the nearish future because she seems so clear and grounded much like she was when we started up last year - she seems like the J during that time).  I know it's a dangerous area to be in, which is why I am here talking about it. 
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steve195915
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« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2015, 06:11:53 PM »

We as normal people seem to need some sort of closure on the end of the relationship with our SO pwBPD.  We may want some answers from them to know if our suspicions were accurate (maybe to justify the breakup), maybe some sort of apology, and maybe just to know they really cared and are hurting too. 

With the pwBPD, they don't seem to be able to admit they did any terrible wrongs even when they did, even if they admit some things were their fault they don't seem sincere.  They don't apologize and it seems like they can just jump into another relationship and move on with no feeling of pain on ending your relationship where you feel you had such a deep connection. 

In your case where you are initiating the breakup, maybe she will show sorrow but I suspect it's because she may think you can still be one of their options to go back to.  If she thinks you are truly done with her, I would expect anger, childish words and absolutely no rational conversation so you can get closure.

It's so painful of letting go of what we thought was our dream.  I really hope you get some closure and peace though I'm very skeptical.  Let us know how it goes!
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2015, 08:29:35 PM »

All of what you said makes sense.  Everything is just raw to me right now and (I know its the BPD) it's weird at the same time because she seems like she doesn't want me to go away but she doesn't want to be with me, either.  It's confusing to me on an emotional level.  Logically, I know that I am only one cog of the clock that is her.  What I mean by that is I know she's saying those things to me and at the same time I can't help but feel that she has another on the line.

It really doesn't matter much whether she's got somebody else already or not. ('Tho if it is her pattern to jump straight from one r/s to the next, I wouldn't expect her to change that.)

What matters is that it takes time for your heart to grieve the relationship you had and get used to the idea that she isn't the trusted intimate partner you treated her as.

There are two reasons to be NC/LC with somebody.

1. You know that the person is toxic for you, or is going to make an emotional mess if you let them close. You intellectually know that you will be confused, upset, and broken-hearted if you let them close. So you keep distance to protect yourself. (I've got one ex like that; she isn't cruel or anything, but every time we have some intimacy, she starts into some boundary busting behavior, and if we try to work out what kind of r/s we are having, she just doesn't have the emotional capacity to keep her mind clear enough to hear what I want, and speak what she wants. Any negotiation on our romantic relationship has been fruitless, and when I try to talk to her about stuff I just feel so !@#$!@# confused, as if the plain english things I'm saying are in a foreign language, and I just cannot get her to understand stuff.)

This problem isn't likely to get better, although people can change. Perhaps allow a peek every year or perhaps decade in case they have changed... .

2. You need time to heal from the breakup or other emotional damage so you can be with this person without going back and reliving all the pain you've had before.

You'll know when you are recovering from this one. Especially since you will be seeing her regularly and able to monitor your feelings as it happens.

You can and will heal. Allow yourself time. Be gentle with yourself.

I'd recommend you avoid looking for a new r/s for a quite while; a rebound fling is likely to be short-term, and more importantly, likely to distract you from the lessons this r/s has presented you... .and if you don't learn those lessons, you are likely to end up in a very similar r/s next time 'round.
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2015, 10:09:22 PM »

All of what you said makes sense.  Everything is just raw to me right now and (I know its the BPD) it's weird at the same time because she seems like she doesn't want me to go away but she doesn't want to be with me, either.  It's confusing to me on an emotional level.  Logically, I know that I am only one cog of the clock that is her.  What I mean by that is I know she's saying those things to me and at the same time I can't help but feel that she has another on the line.

It really doesn't matter much whether she's got somebody else already or not. ('Tho if it is her pattern to jump straight from one r/s to the next, I wouldn't expect her to change that.)

What matters is that it takes time for your heart to grieve the relationship you had and get used to the idea that she isn't the trusted intimate partner you treated her as.

There are two reasons to be NC/LC with somebody.

1. You know that the person is toxic for you, or is going to make an emotional mess if you let them close. You intellectually know that you will be confused, upset, and broken-hearted if you let them close. So you keep distance to protect yourself. (I've got one ex like that; she isn't cruel or anything, but every time we have some intimacy, she starts into some boundary busting behavior, and if we try to work out what kind of r/s we are having, she just doesn't have the emotional capacity to keep her mind clear enough to hear what I want, and speak what she wants. Any negotiation on our romantic relationship has been fruitless, and when I try to talk to her about stuff I just feel so !@#$!@# confused, as if the plain english things I'm saying are in a foreign language, and I just cannot get her to understand stuff.)

This problem isn't likely to get better, although people can change. Perhaps allow a peek every year or perhaps decade in case they have changed... .

2. You need time to heal from the breakup or other emotional damage so you can be with this person without going back and reliving all the pain you've had before.

You'll know when you are recovering from this one. Especially since you will be seeing her regularly and able to monitor your feelings as it happens.

You can and will heal. Allow yourself time. Be gentle with yourself.

I'd recommend you avoid looking for a new r/s for a quite while; a rebound fling is likely to be short-term, and more importantly, likely to distract you from the lessons this r/s has presented you... .and if you don't learn those lessons, you are likely to end up in a very similar r/s next time 'round.

It is quite certainly one day at a time right now.  I guess that I have been quietly detaching from the r/s since around mid-October (when the pushing started).  Of course, I'm not sure why that started and it isn't important why it did.  I was angry when it all started to fall apart and I have spent time thinking on why I was angry and why I felt that this r/s had to succeed.  I had forgotten that when I first entered a new r/s with J that it would more likely than not end this way.  So why do I feel so hurt by it?  After all, I knew deep down I would find myself here but I continued anyway on the hope that she was 'better'.  In many ways, she was better.  In many ways, she still is better.  4 years ago she left without a word.  Literally it was a vacuum.  Now, she did give me closure (something so many on this board wish they can have with their pwBPD). 

I thought I needed closure to reconcile the end in my mind.  While it did that in my head, my heart is still trying to catch up.  I really look back on this bittersweet year and realize that there was both really good and really bad moments.  J was, in part, the amazingly beautiful person I know she is (and she wants to be) but she is also deeply troubled.  Time will close and heal the wounds I feel now, I know that.  I survived our breakup 4 years ago, I will this time too.  It will take a little longer, maybe or maybe not, because we were so much closer (emotionally and physically) this go 'round. 

I am glad the weekend is here.  The reason for that being is that I am away from her with no contact (at least for the weekend, that is).  The time/distance will help me even more.
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Anez
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« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2015, 01:46:33 PM »

How are you doing, Astro?
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2015, 10:01:31 PM »

How are you doing, Astro?

Thanks for asking, Anez.  I am doing ok, probably better than some would imagine.  The pressure of the r/s failing has been relieved as the FOG lifts.  Saturday was sort of rough for me because I had a work event that was Christmas related and she made an appearance (with her parents) after she said she wasn't coming.  That was a bit awkward for me because her dad (and mom) spoke to me, even though I'm reasonably certain they have no clue as to who I am.  It was difficult because later that night she called (FaceTime) me out of the blue.  I didn't answer.  It was hard not to, but I can't heal if I am still at her disposal.

Sunday went off without a hitch.  I didn't hear from her (which is ok), I spent the day shopping with my child for christmas.  It was hard from time to time because I would see/hear/smell something that reminded me of her.

Today was probably the least contact at work we've had.  J's divorce was supposed to be final today, but she told me that today was a day they met to set the final day, so it looks like she's still up to lying (from the best I can tell).  She also spent the better part of the conversation talking about how fat and unattractive her stbexh is.  Which I found to be quite ironic because she told me not long ago that she had, in fact, been to see him during our difficult time to "talk".  I suppose he's so ugly simply because he rejected her.  In a true moment of not caring, I told her about the irony I saw.  We didn't talk the rest of the day.

I feel like I am starting to round into the anger section of grieving for her.  I literally couldn't have cared less to hear about her 'problems'.  They are all perceived and since I have no dog in the hunt anymore, I feel like simply telling her to shut up when she starts talking about how hard things are for her.  It's half (at the very least) her fault life is so difficult for herself and
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2015, 10:05:01 PM »

How are you doing, Astro?

Thanks for asking, Anez.  I am doing ok, probably better than some would imagine.  The pressure of the r/s failing has been relieved as the FOG lifts.  Saturday was sort of rough for me because I had a work event that was Christmas related and she made an appearance (with her parents) after she said she wasn't coming.  That was a bit awkward for me because her dad (and mom) spoke to me, even though I reasonably certain they have no clue as to who I am.  It was difficult because later that night she called (FaceTime) me out of the blue.  I didn't answer.  It was hard not to, but I can't heal if I am still at her disposal.

Sunday went off without a hitch.  I didn't hear from her (which is ok), I spent the day shopping with my child for christmas.  It was hard from time to time because I would see/hear/smell something that reminded me of her.

Today was probably the least contact at work we've had.  J's divorce was supposed to be final today, but she told me that today was a day they met to set the final day, so it looks like she's still up to lying (from the best I can tell).  She also spent the better part of the conversation talking about how fat and unattractive her stbexh is.  Which I found to be quite ironic because she told me not long ago that she had, in fact, been to see him during our difficult time to "talk" to him (which was a week or so ago).  I suppose he's so ugly simply because he rejected her.  In a true moment of not caring, I told her about the irony I saw (how she had split him because just the other day she was riding around their farm together and now he's a fat, disgusting guy).  We didn't talk the rest of the day, which is fine, I'm tired of hearing about it.

I feel like I am starting to round into the anger section of grieving for her.  I literally couldn't have cared less to hear about her 'problems'.  
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Anez
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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2015, 11:08:50 AM »

Good stuff, Astro.

I too see/hear/smell things that remind me of my ex and it just creeps up out of nowhere most of the time. I'm hoping that stops soon.

I also wonder how much easier it would be if we didn't have to work with them and see them 5 days a week. I'm guessing it would be much easier but I also think having to see them every day will only make us stronger as we get through this because it is such a difficult challenge.

Keep doing good things for yourself and keep grinding each day.
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2015, 04:48:20 PM »

Good stuff, Astro.

I too see/hear/smell things that remind me of my ex and it just creeps up out of nowhere most of the time. I'm hoping that stops soon.

I also wonder how much easier it would be if we didn't have to work with them and see them 5 days a week. I'm guessing it would be much easier but I also think having to see them every day will only make us stronger as we get through this because it is such a difficult challenge.

Keep doing good things for yourself and keep grinding each day.

I do wish she would quit.  I don't think she will, but I wish for it every day.  I keep finding reasons to not be around the office just so I don't have to see her.  It doesnt make it any easier seeing her or having 1-1 time with her.  The only relief I feel is when the workday is over, I know I won't hear from her.  She's basically using me as a crutch to get through the workday (I'm presuming that either its because I'm around or her beau is to busy with his own work).  I'm about 90% sure she has something going on with my boss's supervisor though because he's been going around her department a lot more than he used to.  It's obvious to me, looking into the slow globe instead of being in it, that something is clearly going on there.

I know that when the time comes that she fully embraces the replacement, it's going to sting but it will be in that "it hurts she moved on, but thank goodness it's not my problem anymore" kind of way.  I sat down the other night and asked myself, really asked myself, why I was staying LC with her.  The conclusion I reached was that I wanted to make sure that there were no surprises left for me with her (since we were last intimate about 3 months ago, if you catch my drift).  I guess once I'm comfortable that the possibility of pregnancy has passed for sure, not that she ever said she thought she was or anything else that hinted as such, I'll just simply shut down on her.  It's just an irrational fear of mine, as she always made it clear to me she wasn't (no scares, late, etc).  Once I am sure that window has closed, I will probably cut all personal contact with her and be more short with her on a professional level.  I am literally to the point where I don't want to even have professional contact with her because I am just tired of her whining about life.  "I get it, it sucks," is all I can think when she starts her whining about her stbexh, her mom, her sick relatives, her brother having an awesome paying job, or work. 
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