trusting the gut AND the brain

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Reading some old posts on the 'building healthy relationships' board got me thinking about something. Like many of us here, especially those of us with toxic FOO, I struggled for a long time with trusting my gut, which in turn meant that I didn't trust myself. Accordingly, I was easily manipulated, gaslighted, and guilted by my dxBPDex and other emotionally unhealthy friends and family. Several years of therapy after the breakup got me to really listen to me -- listen to my body and pay attention to the quivers, rumblings, and other signs that would come up when something was not right in my world. So I started to really listen to me. At the same time, reading these boards, I took special interest when a poster would say something like, "trusting my gut got me into this mess," and so would instead advocate for being logical and rational all the time. This was a trap I fell into for a while too. Then I got confused -- which should I trust? My brain or my gut?

Then it dawned on me that it's not a matter of choosing one or the other. But that my gut -- which is my inner self expressing discomfort (or joy) at something -- gives me a clue to something that I should further investigate with my brain. So if I find myself feeling even just the tiniest kernel of hesitation when on a date, then I should ask myself why that feeling is there. Then further investigate the feeling while continuing to check in with the feeling and it might (or might not) change over time. This is the important step I missed for a long time. Either I would just ignore the feeling or I would jump straight to the rationalization. Instead I need to create a sort of dialogue between the feeling and the logic so that I can work towards a greater understanding of myself and be better guided in the decisions I make.

Considering that I spent several decades ignoring and second-guessing my feelings, this is a big revelation for me!  :D

[aubin]

Reading some old posts on the 'building healthy relationships' board got me thinking about something. Like many of us here, especially those of us with toxic FOO, I struggled for a long time with trusting my gut, which in turn meant that I didn't trust myself. Accordingly, I was easily manipulated, gaslighted, and guilted by my dxBPDex and other emotionally unhealthy friends and family. Several years of therapy after the breakup got me to really listen to me -- listen to my body and pay attention to the quivers, rumblings, and other signs that would come up when something was not right in my world. So I started to really listen to me. At the same time, reading these boards, I took special interest when a poster would say something like, "trusting my gut got me into this mess," and so would instead advocate for being logical and rational all the time. This was a trap I fell into for a while too. Then I got confused -- which should I trust? My brain or my gut?

Then it dawned on me that it's not a matter of choosing one or the other. But that my gut -- which is my inner self expressing discomfort (or joy) at something -- gives me a clue to something that I should further investigate with my brain. So if I find myself feeling even just the tiniest kernel of hesitation when on a date, then I should ask myself why that feeling is there. Then further investigate the feeling while continuing to check in with the feeling and it might (or might not) change over time. This is the important step I missed for a long time. Either I would just ignore the feeling or I would jump straight to the rationalization. Instead I need to create a sort of dialogue between the feeling and the logic so that I can work towards a greater understanding of myself and be better guided in the decisions I make.

Considering that I spent several decades ignoring and second-guessing my feelings, this is a big revelation for me!  :D

[eeks]

Then it dawned on me that it's not a matter of choosing one or the other. But that my gut -- which is my inner self expressing discomfort (or joy) at something -- gives me a clue to something that I should further investigate with my brain. So if I find myself feeling even just the tiniest kernel of hesitation when on a date, then I should ask myself why that feeling is there. Then further investigate the feeling while continuing to check in with the feeling and it might (or might not) change over time. This is the important step I missed for a long time. Either I would just ignore the feeling or I would jump straight to the rationalization. Instead I need to create a sort of dialogue between the feeling and the logic so that I can work towards a greater understanding of myself and be better guided in the decisions I make.

Hi aubin,



Those little blips of "gut feeling" can be so informative... .the key is catching them and noticing them, as opposed to, like you said, ignoring the feeling or jumping straight to rationalization.  I tend to have strong impulses that later prove to be indicators of something important, but I don't act on them.  For one thing, they often happen fairly early on in meeting someone, when I feel I don't know enough about the person to know what the feeling means (that may be at least partly rationalizing... .) and are things about which I'd like to get more information, but don't know how to ask in a way that is not socially inappropriate (I was trained to be "polite"... .)

Would you like to share more about how this awareness has changed your decision making... .or is this a new insight and you haven't really had a chance to try it out yet?

[aubin]

Would you like to share more about how this awareness has changed your decision making... .or is this a new insight and you haven't really had a chance to try it out yet?

It is a new insight and I've been practicing a little bit, enough to realize that I'm now much more patient when it comes to making decisions about people. I used to feel like I had to know right away -- within days of meeting someone -- whether I liked them or not and, if there were romantic feelings, whether we'd be compatible. Now, because I'm listening to that gut feeling and asking it questions, there's actually a process involved and time taken to decide whether I want to be involved with someone. It's made me slow down and realize that it takes months to really get to know someone. And during all that time, I should be paying attention to how I feel about the person and how I'm reacting to what's going on.

One example: I recently met in person a friend who I had only known online but we had communicated online for years and got along really well. When we met in person though, something seemed off. Nothing notable happened; it was just a gut feeling I had. In the past, I would have either bolted or would have explained away the gut feeling. This time I just listened to the feeling and listened again and again each time I hung out with this friend and the feeling came up. Though I haven't figured out yet what the feeling means (it's been a couple of months) it's been enough for me to pace myself and remain constantly aware and intentional in our interactions.

I feel safer now, like I won't be blindsided by someone's egregious behavior the way i used to be too too often in the past.

[Lucky Jim]

Like what you're saying, aubin.  I got into trouble by ignoring my gut -- not the other way around.  A lot of great thinking happens from the neck down.  Of course the mind has a role, too, as you note.  But for me the gut feeling is the starting point.  Now I strive to trust my instincts.  It's part of my personal journey towards authenticity.

LuckyJim

[Grey Kitty]

I agree very much that the gut is telling you something that needs further examination in an intellectual way (if you have time to do so safely).

One example from my marriage. I'm not normally a jealous guy. However there were several people I had kinda jealous feelings about regarding my wife over the years. At first I didn't even identify the feelings as jealousy. And mostly stuffed the feelings, 'tho I did pick a few squabbles with my wife over them at various levels.

In retrospect, and having learned a lot more from my wife, every time my wife and some guy made me jealous, there was something going on there. Exactly what it was that was going on varied quite a bit. In some cases, there was no actual problem or issue around it. But what I realized was that my gut feeling was doing a very good job, and realized exactly what the job it was doing was.

My jealousy was saying "Hey, Grey Kitty, there is something going on with your wife and this guy. You better pay attention and see what it is, and decide what you want to do about it."

It wasn't saying "Blow the !@#$!@# up at your wife over what she's doing with this guy." That absolutely was the wrong response in most cases. Might have worked out OK in one or two 'tho 

This online friend who feels "off" in person is a great example. In that situation, I'd probably trust my gut that something truly is "off" about him or how he relates to you. And accept that I don't know what it is or how important it will turn out to be.

Don't think I'd consider a romantic relationship with that feeling at all, as getting in that deep is sure to bring out whatever demons he has, and your gut is telling you that there are some.

I'd probably be reluctant to take on a big new project with him, or go on a week-long vacation with him, etc.

But no reason to push him away, especially online. You have a long and good history there.

[mssalty]

I think my relative inexperience led me to not trusting my gut.  I spent a lot of time hearing about how I should or shouldn't act and since I had nothing to really gauge it by (and trusted the person naively), I went with what they said, even though my body/mind was sending me serious messages.   

In retrospect, I think many of us see the warning signs we ignored because we tried to rationalize things.   I remember one incident clearly in which my sudden reaction to something that happened (a drink spilled and I freaked a bit because I was afraid it was going to damage something) drove my SO to react to me with such incredible anger that I didn't understand what was happening.   That was the first of many incidents where I wound up apologizing for things because the reaction made me think I'd done far more than I had.   Truthfully, I'm only now realizing that these are not a reflection of my own personal defects, but their inability to handle criticism or the emotions of others, even when they're not directed at them. 

Trust your feeling to dig deeper.  Don't just paper over the feeling unexamined.  That's the lesson learned.