Kind of sort of maybe painted white. And I think I liked black better.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My ex signals that I am painted white by publicly posting his whereabouts so that I can find him if I so choose.  He posted where he will be on at least three occasions last night.  He did this after I posted publicly a couple days ago that I am dating other people.

The problem is that I am not sure that he is relieved that I'm dating someone else, or jealous and trying to get me back.  A miscalculation, knowing this man, could land me in court.  He gets angry if I ignore him at the wrong times, too.  I wish he had just kept me blackest black and stayed in his hidey hole, in some ways.  Life was easier then.

My friends have an agreement with him that if he goes to one of their events, I am welcome there, and he is welcome there, and everyone must get along, or they will be removed from the invite list.  Most of the events that he signed up for were with people with whom he had this agreement.  I would say this is a significant sign that he *wants* to see me.  The last time he did this, I followed his lead and showed up, and he followed me around like a sad puppy, looking for my attention.  (Then shortly after, he painted me black and threatened me with a PPO.)

I can't go to the next party he signed up for anyway, so I'm going to let him dangle in ambiguity for a while, not rejecting him, but not offering feedback either.  I just don't know what to do with him, because he is so volatile, and last time he painted me black in person because he didn't like the way I *looked* at him.  My dad keeps telling me to avoid him at all costs, which is probably sound advice, but leads to a pretty limited social life. 

I just wish I had some indication that he wanted to see me, but he does not communicate with me about anything in the past.  He just acts like nothing happened and expects me to go along with it.  If I don't show up soon enough, he'll probably just paint me black for abandoning him.

I still have feelings for him, but of course I recognize the dead-end nature of the relationship.

What a mess.  If anyone has support, advice, etc.  it would be appreciated.

One of my favorite bands, Miike Snow, just released a single called "Genghis Khan."  I have decided it's my ex's theme song.  If some of you listen to it, you might empathize.

[GreenEyedMonster]

My ex signals that I am painted white by publicly posting his whereabouts so that I can find him if I so choose.  He posted where he will be on at least three occasions last night.  He did this after I posted publicly a couple days ago that I am dating other people.

The problem is that I am not sure that he is relieved that I'm dating someone else, or jealous and trying to get me back.  A miscalculation, knowing this man, could land me in court.  He gets angry if I ignore him at the wrong times, too.  I wish he had just kept me blackest black and stayed in his hidey hole, in some ways.  Life was easier then.

My friends have an agreement with him that if he goes to one of their events, I am welcome there, and he is welcome there, and everyone must get along, or they will be removed from the invite list.  Most of the events that he signed up for were with people with whom he had this agreement.  I would say this is a significant sign that he *wants* to see me.  The last time he did this, I followed his lead and showed up, and he followed me around like a sad puppy, looking for my attention.  (Then shortly after, he painted me black and threatened me with a PPO.)

I can't go to the next party he signed up for anyway, so I'm going to let him dangle in ambiguity for a while, not rejecting him, but not offering feedback either.  I just don't know what to do with him, because he is so volatile, and last time he painted me black in person because he didn't like the way I *looked* at him.  My dad keeps telling me to avoid him at all costs, which is probably sound advice, but leads to a pretty limited social life. 

I just wish I had some indication that he wanted to see me, but he does not communicate with me about anything in the past.  He just acts like nothing happened and expects me to go along with it.  If I don't show up soon enough, he'll probably just paint me black for abandoning him.

I still have feelings for him, but of course I recognize the dead-end nature of the relationship.

What a mess.  If anyone has support, advice, etc.  it would be appreciated.

One of my favorite bands, Miike Snow, just released a single called "Genghis Khan."  I have decided it's my ex's theme song.  If some of you listen to it, you might empathize.

[C.Stein]

Maybe the best thing to do is do nothing? 

This is something I have been struggling with myself.  A part of me wants to try to work things out with my ex, a part of me doesn't. 

The part of me that does want to try is my heart.  I deeply love her.

The part of me that doesn't is my head.  I see all the stuff that emotionally destroyed me and I wonder if it could ever really stop with her.  I do believe she has much potential for personal growth.  What I don't know is if she is capable or willing to do the work necessary to participate in a healthy relationship.

She is likely involved with someone and if she is then that is it.  I still am contemplating reaching out, if for no other reason than to remove the doubt from my mind.

[shatra]

GEM he is not just showing up, he is letting you know he is planning to show up. Sounds like he could be jealous of your dating

Stein wrote

She is likely involved with someone and if she is then that is it.  I still am contemplating reaching out, if for no other reason than to remove the doubt from my mind.

----"That is it" meaning what, you would not want to pursue her?  If you mean "that is it" meaning  she would not pursue you since she is involved with someone, that is unlikely===many people here write that the ex pursues them again, because it doesn't last with the person the ex is involved with

[C.Stein]

----"That is it" meaning what, you would not want to pursue her?  If you mean "that is it" meaning  she would not pursue you since she is involved with someone, that is unlikely===many people here write that the ex pursues them again, because it doesn't last with the person the ex is involved with

Both.  She is not the type to return, especially after what she has likely done to me.  The shame, guilt and fear of rejection will keep her away forever.

[GreenEyedMonster]

GEM he is not just showing up, he is letting you know he is planning to show up. Sounds like he could be jealous of your dating

I was thinking about this last night and if last time is any indication, my ex paints me white in phases.  He may be comfortable with seeing me again, but that doesn't mean he wants to date me.  He has dominant engulfment fears (as opposed to abandonment) so I think that this is, in part, a test to see if I come after him in an engulfing way again.  If I do, he will disappear, but not before rattling me with a few threats.  I think that if I don't engulf him, he will gradually begin to trust me again and his feelings for me will probably return, but I don't think this is instantaneous, nor do I think the fact that he's letting me know where he is is a strong indication of his interest in me . . . yet.

I am going to view this as a test and let him go his merry way for a while, and I think gradually when he sees that I am not engulfing him, he will develop some feelings for me again.  He seemed to last time, but it takes time, and moving too soon blows it all up.

Frankly, I'd just like to be able to play a hand of cards with the man without hating each other.

[SummerStorm]

GEM,

Your ex sounds a lot like mine, with the dominant engulfment fears.  She went cold on me in September when I started asking her about her new apartment and when I wished her a happy birthday.  The first moment I felt her pull away from me this last time was when I texted, "Goodnight.  Talk to you soon!"  The previous two nights, she had replied, "Sleep tight" when I said goodnight (she works nights, so our schedules are opposite).  That time, I got nothing back.  The next time she pulled away was when I texted, "Hey, it's getting pretty foggy out.  Be careful on your way to work."  She replied, "Thanks," but I didn't hear from her the rest of the night and only got a few snippy texts from her the next day.  So, I stupidly decided to spend the next two days telling her that I don't want her to shut me out again and that I was so happy when she texted me again, etc. 

She was perfectly fine when we were talking about Pokemon and TV shows, but as soon as anything got too intimate or serious, she was done. 

I'm still trying to figure out what this last time was all about.  She found me on Tinder and kept her profile up, but she wasn't active the entire time we were talking.  Then, as soon as she blocked me on everything, she got back on Tinder.  If (when, really) she contacts me again, there's a large part of me that wants to say, "How about we just have some quick, drunken sex tonight and then get on with our lives?"

She wants love and romance and knows I'm all about love and romance, but she can't handle love and romance, so she just floats around in life, with no real direction. 

She once said to me, "There's just something about you that I can't let go of."  And this was before we had even had sex.  I thought it was cute at the time, but I now know that what she was really saying was, "I will never stop bothering you." 

I'm with you.  Being painted black tends to be a lot better for me.  As soon as I'm painted white, I feel like I'm constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I lose sleep, my anxiety increases, I start analyzing her texts, etc.   

[GreenEyedMonster]

My ex has never made it far enough into a recycle to actually talk to me about anything that happened.  If I act friendly toward him again, he is at first reassured, but it doesn't take long for him to go back to his sense of engulfment.  My strategy this time is to let him feel really abandoned before he hears or sees from me again.  Maybe he will initiate contact with me, and in that case, I will know that I am safe to see or talk to him.

He told me that if I go out with my friends when he is there, or even act like I might, he will file a PPO against me.  He also said that if I look at him wrong, he will file a PPO against me.  I am trying to work with my friends to handle this situation.  I also think that having our friends' disapproval of his actions might curb his lashing out toward me.  My friends, however, haven't always been on board with getting involved.  I am hoping the host of the next gathering will take it upon himself to say something.

Having to deal with him again keeps me from re-idealizing him in my mind, and keeps me from being attracted to him again, which is good.

[Learning Fast]

She was perfectly fine when we were talking about Pokemon and TV shows, but as soon as anything got too intimate or serious, she was done.

My strategy this time is to let him feel really abandoned before he hears or sees from me again.  Maybe he will initiate contact with me, and in that case, I will know that I am safe to see or talk to him.



Virtually identical to my ex.  We last communicated via text just over 3 wks ago.  The minute our exchange took a serious turn she shut down. I haven't heard from her since and don't plan to initiate contact.  I think in many ways being painted black is easier to manage as there is nothing to second guess and no texts to analyze or interpret.  I'd rather be painted black than become a text buddy where the depth of the conversation resembles a discussion about the weather.

LF

[GreenEyedMonster]

I find that most of the advice and experiences on this board pertain only to those who have abandonment-dominant pwBPD in their lives.  Dealing with an engulfment-dominant pwBPD is an entirely different experience.  You are right -- they resist all forms of closeness, experience abandonment fears only briefly, and this "recycling" thing is a flash in the pan before the problem comes back -- I'm talking DAYS.  My ex made no effort to conceal the fact that he doesn't really need a relationship, would leave the moment things got "bad," saw even minor disagreements as deal breakers, and most importantly, had zero interest in thinking about my needs or accommodating them.  I was "walking on eggshells" all the time, or accommodating his needs so that he wouldn't leave me . . .

I spent 12 years in a relationship with someone who had extreme abandonment fears.  That was sustainable in many ways.  He would bend over backwards to be a good boyfriend.  This engulfment thing, on the other hand?  It was like being in a relationship with the most incredibly self-centered person you could possibly imagine.  He would find excuses to take whatever he wanted or needed from me and if pushed to reciprocate, would just threaten to leave.  In order to sustain the relationship, I had to give until it hurt and lose any sense of self.

I never get really painted white because my ex never needs me to meet his needs, and would rather avoid any obligations associated with a relationship.  There is never any discussion about the relationship because that would mean responsibility.  Needs and responsibility disgust him.

Sorry, venting here . . .

[Learning Fast]

GEM,

Agreed.  Responsibility, accountability and culpability are simply not part of their vocabulary.  Emotional closeness and intimacy are exhibited in brief spurts until BPD behavior is triggered.   Especially after the first fracture/departure in the relationship and during recycles.

The white/black back and forth became became all too frequent after the initial break.  My ex was able to maintain the facade during the idealization phase but post departure the "me, me, me" nature of the disorder along with other behaviors became clearly evident.  In some ways I'm thankful that the mask fell off early in the relationship versus years down the road.

LF

[GreenEyedMonster]

GEM,

Agreed.  Responsibility, accountability and culpability are simply not part of their vocabulary.  Emotional closeness and intimacy are exhibited in brief spurts until BPD behavior is triggered.   Especially after the first fracture/departure in the relationship and during recycles.

The white/black back and forth became became all too frequent after the initial break.  My ex was able to maintain the facade during the idealization phase but post departure the "me, me, me" nature of the disorder along with other behaviors became clearly evident.  In some ways I'm thankful that the mask fell off early in the relationship versus years down the road.

LF

How wonderful it must be to live in a world where everything becomes exactly what you need.  Nothing is ever your fault -- everyone else is always evil or incompetent at exactly the right moment.  If someone dislikes you, it's because they're bad.  If you fail, it's because someone else didn't do their job.  If you need someone to be perfect, they are (until they aren't).  There is no reason to ever feel bad about yourself or feel shame, no need to ever apologize.  What a wonderful little world my ex lives in.

[Learning Fast]

GEM,

Indeed.  It is like they are coated in anti-responsibility/accountability/culpability Teflon.

That being said, I wouldn't trade places with them in a million years.  One of the psychs I spoke to positioned it this way:  Pretend that you are invited to a Halloween costume party and plan to attend in the likeness of someone you would like everyone to see you as.  All of us could pull that off for a night.  Sadly, pwBPD feel as though they are in this position every day.

LF

[GreenEyedMonster]

The truly annoying thing in my life right now is that my friends will not take his threats toward me seriously.  They casually write him off as all bluster and say that I should just live my life and ignore his attempts to control me -- he wouldn't *really* do the things he claims he would!  I know better, though, and so do a lot of the people here.  There is no telling what an anxious, threatened pwBPD is capable of.  I have no doubt that if he were cornered, he would do all the things he says he would and more.  So no, I will not just live my life and "find out" if his threats are real.

[Learning Fast]

GEM,

I'm convinced that others (who truly mean well) simply can't understand the dynamics of this type of relationship.  Unless you've been an active BPD participant you just can't identify with this type of behavior.

Please be safe first and foremost, GEM, regardless of what you friends say.

LF

[GreenEyedMonster]

My ex is very paranoid about not being a criminal, so at least I have that going for me.  But as long as he can stay on the right side of the law, there are no limits to what he would do.  PPOs, lawsuits, criminal charges -- those are all within his range of possibilities.  I have reached a point where I won't see him without written documentation that he agreed to it!

[Learning Fast]

GEM,

Solid boundary!  Good luck with everything.

LF