Loneliness

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm a person that doesn't mind having quite a bit of alone time. Having said that though, I DO need some interaction. I am having issue with BPD not talking to me. Now, I don't feel this is the silent treatment I sometimes get. This has been ongoing, and I've tried to be okay with it, but the loneliness really bothers me.

It's worse when he's around, because it just feels so weird to have a spouse that doesn't need to interact, or talk to you. He's so superficial, and feels no need to communicate with me, other than need to know things, or "how was your day". He's never curious about ME. When I say something, he doesn't ask normal questions, and in fact, he'll turn the conversation around to HIM. It happened again just tonight, in one of our brief conversations.

We went to the store, he is mostly silent in the car. We ate dinner with no conversation, and after dinner he hopped online, and got busy with paperwork. I kept busy, but thought he might make time to say a few things to me. Then he's nodding off, and now he's sleeping. When I make comments, they fall flat, or get minimal response. When we dated, he talked up a storm, and would actually hold a conversation. He still does with other people.

I've told him it's a need I have to interact with my spouse. I crave it, and when I don't get it, but he hits me up for SEX, I just don't want to. I used to go ahead, give him sex, but feel awful after, because it's the only way he seems to need to connect, and it just left me feeling used. He's been told, and read a ton of things to where he knows women need an emotional connection in order to want sex, but he's just too stubborn, or just to lazy, or something, to bother.

I can join some groups, or find yet more ways to keep myself busy, but I didn't get married to be ALONE, and I'm getting very frustrated. How hard is it to talk to your wife for ten minutes a day? Actually look at me? I'm smart, I'm pretty, and I'm a good listener, and it's all lost on him.

I don't know what the solution is, and we've talked about it so many times. He told me tonight that tomorrow he'll "interact" and we'll have more "back and forth". Instead of my bids to get a conversation going. We'll see. He makes promises he has no intention of keeping, or he'll just plain forget. I totally understand his need and desire for sex, and I want to fulfill his needs, but he just refuses to realize that I need more than just sex to feel close.

He's a smart guy, but for someone so smart, he just can't connect the dots.

[Dragon72]

I fear that you're looking for something that he'll never ever be able to give you.  I have a feeling that pwBPD are incapable of emotional intimacy with the people they partner with. 

At least what I have observed from my own pwBPD and from anecdotal evidence on this board. 

If anything, it seems that pwBPD start with the idealisation period dominating, where they make you feel special most of the time, with the occasional tantrum where they make you feel like your the worst person in the world. Then gradually, but all the while accelerating, the change happens until the idealisation episodes are few and far between.

I tried to reverse that trend by doing everything I can to please my pwBPD, but I have realised that it's futile, at least in my case, as whatever I do to try make her life easier, ends up getting either ignored or criticised.  If anything, putting her needs before mine all the time might have made things worse.

[TheRealJongoBong]

I feel like I'm in a circus funhouse, it seems like you're talking about me but I have the same feelings as you. I know I don't talk to my wife as much as she'd like me to, to share my day, my thoughts, feelings about life. I give her something like the silent treatment and I'm sure it hurts.

It's worse when he's around, because it just feels so weird to have a spouse that doesn't need to interact, or talk to you. He's so superficial, and feels no need to communicate with me, other than need to know things, or "how was your day". He's never curious about ME. When I say something, he doesn't ask normal questions, and in fact, he'll turn the conversation around to HIM. It happened again just tonight, in one of our brief conversations.

And this is why I end up doing what I do. She says she wants to know what's going on with me but it almost always ends up talking about her and what's happening to her. The best example of this came from last night when we were in the kitchen and she said something I didn't quite catch. I asked her if she was talking to me and she said "i'm always talking to myself because I create everything I see." I asked if that includes me and she says "yes, especially you". I just don't know how to respond to stuff like that so I don't say anything.

We went to the store, he is mostly silent in the car. We ate dinner with no conversation, and after dinner he hopped online, and got busy with paperwork. I kept busy, but thought he might make time to say a few things to me. Then he's nodding off, and now he's sleeping. When I make comments, they fall flat, or get minimal response. When we dated, he talked up a storm, and would actually hold a conversation. He still does with other people.

This happens to me often. When I make comments, they fall flat, or get minimal  (or snarky) response. She will hold conversations with other people but with me it's mostly about how everybody should think and feel and do, and also how her religion will make everything wonderful once enough people believe it.

I've told him it's a need I have to interact with my spouse. I crave it, and when I don't get it, but he hits me up for SEX, I just don't want to. I used to go ahead, give him sex, but feel awful after, because it's the only way he seems to need to connect, and it just left me feeling used.

Exact same thing here. When I say interact I mean actual give and take, not endless lectures. And the feeling used takes a long time to go away.

I can join some groups, or find yet more ways to keep myself busy, but I didn't get married to be ALONE, and I'm getting very frustrated. How hard is it to talk to your wife for ten minutes a day? Actually look at me? I'm smart, I'm pretty, and I'm a good listener, and it's all lost on him.

Same here, maybe without the pretty, I thought I was getting married for companionship and to be able to go through life together with someone watching your back. It's diffcult for me to accept that my actual role seems to be emotional caretaker.

All I know is my wife's going to do what she's going to do, and unless I kick and scream (and accept the consequences of THAT) I just have to suck it up and accept it.

This is for both of us.   

[Ceruleanblue]

It's just weird. I know he'd be like this with anyone he was with, most likely. I think why I struggle with that question though is because his Dad, his brother, and his daughter, have all told me how different he was with his ex. That he treated her much better, and he'd do anything she asked of him. That clearly is NOT how he is with me. It seems she dominated him, yet with me, he's a bully and he dominates all aspects of our marriage. It's not the control that bothers me(as I see this as he needs to feel in control, as he lacks self esteem or something), but it's the lack of respect, and that "doting" factor that he displayed with his ex.

He says he didn't interact with her much either, and that she had some of the same complaints: him not communicating, and him having bonds with other people, but not with her. She was actually jealous of how over involved he was with their kids. Clear enmeshed style parenting.

It's hard not to compare, when I've had the whole family point this crap out to me. I feel like he should have learned from his first marriage, and in fact, he was working on all this in therapy when I met him. He told me he had seen where HE could have done better in his first marriage, even though he was clearly physically abused by her. I took this to mean he was owing his part, and was choosing to learn healthier behaviors. He was reading the Five Love Languages when I met him. That is such a good book, and yet he fails to do either of my love languages. It's a choice. He knows what my love languages are, and yet he refuses to do either of them. Yet he expects and wants his own love language met: Sex/physical affection and doing activity based things together.

I went on meetup.com last night, and signed myself up to a foodie club, and RSVP'd to several events. I'm not going to sit around, waiting for his attention anymore.

Maybe you are right, and he just can't give it for whatever reason. If he didn't give his attention to anyone, I'd find that so much easier to take! As it is, I get to see him interact/talk with my 20 year old daughter who lives with us, his kids, his friends, and I feel like a starving mad watching others eat at a buffet.

I realized it's not personal, but it sort of is, because I'm married to him. Sure, anyone married to him would likely be in this spot, but it still stinks. And according to his whole family, he used to kiss his ex's butt. I just can't make sense of any of this in my head.

I am looking forward to the foodie club, and making new friends.

[Notwendy]

Drama is still drama.

While you wonder why your H behaved one way with his ex and another with you, how he behaves with people is more about him than it is with you.

Where drama ( and the triangle ) is concerned, one extreme of behavior is as dysfunctional as the other. We can be too mean, or too nice, or too generous, or too stingy, too angry, or not show anger at all, and so on.

You have mentioned his ex was mean and treated him poorly, and he kissed her tail. Well, this is a chance for him to play out his victim role with her as the persecutor. Then, after getting a beating from her, he turns around and gets to play persecutor with you.

One of the risks we take if we leave one relationship without dealing with our own issues, is that we are at risk of playing the same issues out with the next relationship. Our "attraction" meter is set by our issues. What can look attractive to us is someone who matches our issues. Sometimes, when leaving one relationship, we may seek out the opposite, but end up right on the same triangle.

If he were to leave you, and find someone else, it would be the same issues, maybe different players, but the same drama. The same could go for you. If anything is a motivator to work on our issues- in or out of a relationship- that would be it, because if we become more emotionally healthy, then that is how we relate to everyone in our lives. Because, wherever we go- here we are. If there is a lot of drama with people in our lives- well the person in common with all that people is us.

Knowing this, it might be easier to let go of the idea that he treated his ex better. They aren't together for a reason and he is the same guy regardless.

[Ceruleanblue]

I thought BPDh and I were a good fit because I'd gotten out of a marriage with an abusive, angry man. BPDh being in therapy, and having gotten out of the same thing, and him SEEMING so passive, seemed like such a good thing to me. I chose to be with him, precisely due to these things, and because I'd had therapy, read a lot of stuff, and thought I had my stuff worked out. It's just disappointing that here I am again, only a slightly different scenario. My ex didn't have a PD, and they really are not much alike, outside the anger. I didn't in fact know BPDh had an anger issue.

I realize that comparing isn't great, but it's just so glaringly in my face, I was fed too many facts, and his family tells me this crap. I guess it just confirmed what I already knew.

I do see where he is playing the opposite role to the one he played with his ex. I feel I unwittingly though, am stuck in the same role. I think I just need to toughen up, work on me, and let the chips fall where they may. I never did think I could fix anyone, and didn't get into this thinking BPDh had any major issues, and I thought I'd worked through mine. This sort of put me in the same pickle, with some new, not so nice added features of physical abuse(this has now stopped), infidelity, and dealing with the personality disorder. BPDh actually makes my ex look like a walk in the park. Of course in some ways he's better, in some ways worse than my ex.

I feel we do need to work our own issues IN this marriage. Running doesn't change anything, and I've always believed if you don't work through your own stuff, you land in the same place again. I'd think the same of ME, except I don't judge myself too harshly because I TRIED to pick the exact opposite of what I'd had, and I knew what to look for, the BPDh put on a grand act. I just didn't know, and even in hindsight, I can't see how I'd have known. No use crying over spilled milk though, I'm here now, and just need to do the best "I" can.

For now, that means building a life outside sitting around, waiting for BPDh to want to talk to me, interact with me, or get his crap together. I'm only responsible for me, and I refuse to sit around, cry in my soup, and feel bad about not getting my needs met. I'm now taking a more proactive approach.

I told him today that I'd joined the foodie group, and he really doesn't want me going alone. Too bad, I need interaction.

[ladylee]

Good for you that you are joining meet up.  What you describe sounds like my marriage, minus the rages, drama, financial abuse, and flat out requests to "shut the " f" Up at least you're not getting that said to you. Men in general communicate less. There were times when my marriage was functioning, that we actually took walks together and I noticed we talked during those walks. But later on I was replaced by theTV and refrigerator. If I could have started and there was no abuse, I definitely would be taking a painting class, yoga, taking more walks alone, and meeting friends for coffee. He was good at keeping himself busy, and if I couldn't get to the housework, I would have hired someone!

[Notwendy]

His comment about you "going alone" to the food group might appear as concern, but I would be willing to bet that is comes from insecurity that you might meet someone you like there.

There was a discussion on another thread about the indirectness of expressing needs. This was played out in my marriage too. I would want to do something, and out of the blue, my H would do something like refuse to watch the kids, if he had agreed to, or come up with some other reason for me not going. "Worrying about my safety" was a big one. He could sound so concerned for me, which seems nice, but it also felt odd, being that I am an adult, and have done many things on my own.

For a long time, I dealt with the fear of my H's anger by WOE. With the kids being little, for me to do something in the evenings wasn't easy. I would have to get a sitter if I wanted to do that, but still, evenings meant homework, projects, after school activities and so I was pretty busy with them. H was either not home, or in the other room doing something. There was very much the idea that he liked me being home, didn't like me being out of the house, but was content to be doing something else. As the kids got older, more independent, the need for me to be there all the time was less, and so I could go to an exercise class without disrupting the family, but this made him feel uncomfortable. But the reasons or the feelings were not discussed, and so saying something like " I am too busy to watch the kids" was a good reason, but not the real one.

By the time we got to MC, the T suggested I go to co-dependency groups- and they are all in the evenings. My H didn't like this, but he had agreed to do what the T said and so didn't challenge this. But once I was home a little later because of bad weather and the questions started. Not direct ones, but the indirect ones. Who was there? ( I can't say because of anonymity) and then on to " did you meet any men there? " which began to touch on the fear.

I think all of our relationships are different, but can have some issues in common. One issue I think is the dual fears: fear of being controlled, enmeshed and the fear of abandonment. If they feel we are too close, too controlling, then one fear is triggered, if we are not right there, then the other one is.

Also, recall the extinction burst. This may not be bad behavior. It could also be ramping up the romance, interaction. But don't go to the meeting in hopes of this, because, neither behavior is what you really want- both the sudden romance and the being pushed away are behaviors that are founded in fear, and that is probably not the romance you want.

I used to push for my H to "share his deep thoughts" with me, but that is very hard for him to do. For one, that is one area where, he really has control- his thoughts are his, and giving up this control may be very hard for him, or he doesn't know how to do it. This could actually be a boundary of his, and feel to him as if you are pushing on it. Our SO's have boundaries and we need to respect them.

Sex- a complicated topic- seems to be almost always affected in some way in a dysfunctional relationship. Sex is probably the most vulnerable situation, and raises all kinds of feelings and fears. First, you don't have to be a blow up doll, and he certainly should not do things that hurt you. However, having an expectation that he meet your emotional/verbal needs in order to have sex may lead to more issues about sex for him. I don't have an answer for you as far as what to do, as I don't know. One thing I have read is that for men, this is the way they connect. For women, we connect by talking, affection. One of my concern was that, if the second part- the talking - wasn't working then, not having sex was cutting off the one way of connection possible. So while we shouldn't be doormats, or let someone hurt us, consider that asking for something our SO's can not do when it comes to sex might be a tough situation.

It is disappointing to not be able to have the heart to heart talks with an SO, but this may not be something they can do. Also, when there is drama and conflict, it is hard to have this. I think the answer, like in so many situations is to aim first for a reduction in conflict, a reduction in drama, a reduction in being reactive to other people, and taking care of oneself.

Go to that meeting no matter what your H does- either behave badly or better. His behavior is a reflection of his internal state not yours. If you do anything to try to influence his feelings, or behavior, then you are being reactive, and co-dependent and that is acting on the drama triangle. If you go to the meeting as a form of self care, then his response isn't part of your decision. It truly is for you. Use your own values as a basis for your behavior. He may have a fit if you talk to other people, but use your values. Discussing a recipe with a male participant isn't cheating, but discussing your intimate feelings might lead to that. Your H may truly fear that, but also fear if he reveals his to you that he is risking being engulfed. He doesn't have that risk with someone he isn't as attached to. Neither does that nice man who might talk to you at the meeting. You mentioned feeling "fooled" by your H's behavior when you were dating and that he can chat up a storm with everyone but you. This is because he is less vulnerable with other people. Someone else you might meet could look different intitially and in time, have similar issues.

I know you are not going with any intentions to meet someone else, but your H may fear this. I mention this because when there is drama in our relationships it can make us feel vulnerable. The common denominator to any relationship- friends, family, is us, and if you see men behaving nicer in groups, know that your H would too. My H used to say to me that the women at work seemed nicer to him than I did. That really hurt, but I could have said the same thing to him. The way people act in public and with casual relationships may not reflect their private behavior. Your H knows he acts differently in public and he may fear that since you know him better, you will compare him to anyone else you talk to.

[ladylee]

I'm not living with mine anymore because it was just getting worse for me, I am learning how to be alone again. I actually like a lot of alone time, but I couldn't do that with him. He would demand attention, or rage at me. I never raged at him for attention even though I often got the silent treatment, I requested to talk. We are barely texting. I am gradually letting go because I need more of a life than i had with him and have needed one for a long time. I grew up in a family where we talked at dinner. My parents did not rage at each other and nobody got the silent treatment for any reason. We were very stable. I am not sure why I am a people pleaser. I believe that people with BPD untreated progressively get worse partners if they do not find help, or shorter relationships, or wind up alone. One of the last questions I asked my husband was, if I do not want to have sex with you because of your distance and callousness, what are you going to do force me? He would not discuss it. I stopped submitting. Then we separated. It still breaks my heart, but what choice is he giving me. I'm a person, not an object. I suggested marriage counselling. He still would not fight for the marriage. He hasn't served me with divorce papers yet. I'm leaving it at that and let him reflect, maybe something will shake loose, maybe it wont. But I'm not spending any more money. He can step up.

[Notwendy]

I wish I had some explanation for this inability, ( or fear) of talking. I grew up with a mother with BPD, so it was very easy for me to see the source of some of the issues I was dealing with. My H's FOO looked for all purposes as a stable loving family, but the dysfunction was there, just well hidden. Either way, out in the open or not, dysfunction affects other members in the family. My mother's FOO looks good too, but appearances are deceiving.

This is not to say that there was anything dysfunctional about your FOO. The idea of looking at our FOO's is not to blame, or to make excuses, but to question ourselves about what we think is "normal" or emotionally healthy, because what we grow up with feels normal or familiar to us. We can unconsciously seek others who feel familiar to us. Our FOO's influence our attraction to people in a way we may not be aware of. So it is something I was motivated to look at.

I like to talk at dinner- eating is a social experience. My H's FOO do not talk about anything intimate. If they talk at all it is to tease or jab at each other, each trying to get an emotional response. I really think this is the only level of emotional connection they have. Or they will talk about something not personal at all. Nobody talks directly about feelings or wants and their way of getting around this is through involving other people or passive aggressive behavior.

My FIL does not talk. He could go all day. Mealtime in this family is about eating- in silence. So, for my H, not ever having had the experience of talking at a family meal, this feels normal and comfortable for him. It drives me bonkers. However, talking during meals feels strange to him and he doesn't like it. Since I was mostly alone with the kids, I talked to them at meals, and so they do too.

I agree that I think it is good to be content with ourselves alone. This may not mean we choose to be alone, or to leave our relationships, but it is a big step to not being in as much fear of being alone. When we feel secure with ourselves, we don't relate to others out of fear, and that helps our relationships.

Ladylee, your H now has the space to decide himself what he wants to do. This is one solution. For others, it may be leaving our SO's some emotional space. This isn't the same as withdrawing or reacting. If we set a boundary, then it is their choice what to do about that.

[ladylee]

Yes, I am not at all saying leaving is a solution for all, it was for me because he would not allow me to withdraw when I needed to, he engulfed me at all times.  He was dominating the situation, financially, physically, and emotionally.  I had too many health problems to stay, I stuck it out for 9 years and suffered a lot.  I did not find this board until after the decision was made.  But even if I  had these tools, he is not in treatment.  I was in treatment when I made the decision.  He will have to made the next step.  He may have been cheating on me, I am not sure, it is part of the reason why I withdrew sexually, to protect myself, we were not discussing anything so, I cannot be sure.  I like your observation about FOO, his was similar, they did not talk about intimate things at dinner, usually they made fun of each other as well, or argued, it got louder and louder the more alcohol that got consumed.  Basically it was a circus, I hated going to the events.  Leaving made it easier now, I do not have to go, I am sure they have blackened me by now.  I just have to make sure I straighten my own ass out, and do not repeat patterns.  thank you for responding.

[Notwendy]

The choice to stay or to leave isn't easy no matter which one we make. This is something each person has to decide for themselves, considering their own individual situation. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to do so. Since this is the staying board, the choice to stay is supported here, and other choices have their own forum for support. I've seen members post on more than one forum, depending on the one(s) that they feel is more helpful.

We can only do the best we can, and so, you made the best choice you could, for you, at the time. Personally, I think that when we work on ourselves, in or out of a relationship, it benefits us.

[Notwendy]

When I think of all the advice to read and talk to babies, and how much development happens by age 3, it makes me think that our FOO's influence is strong- not impossible to change but would take working at it and effort. Think of anything people do to change their habits- lose weight, eat better, exercise, stop smoking- all of these take work, effort, possibly coaching. I think in a similar way, we choose people who can relate to us in a way that is habitual and familiar.

I also didn't think my co-dependency was "that bad". In my FOO, I was the one who is the strongest, the least affected, but still, realizing that what I did that didn't seem so bad to me was still dysfunctional and causing me issues in my relationships with people. Change isn't easy. My 12 step co-dependency sponsor was not warm and fuzzy with me. It was more like boot camp to get new habits, but it helped.

So, I think about my H, growing up with a FOO that didn't discuss feelings and a father who hardly talked. What must that have been like as a kid? So many times my kids have come home from school- upset about something- being called a name by another kid, who to sit with in the cafeteria- and they shared their feelings with me. I would sit down with them and validate them. " I bet it did hurt your feelings when Billy called you a mean name" and let them express their feelings. My H has alluded to his Dad trying to shut him up. Soon, I bet he learned, even as a small child to not share his feelings. Knowing a little about his father, my FIL, I think he grew up in an emotionally cold FOO too. So, while learning doesn't stop, I wonder, at what point a child's emotional growth is stunted by invalidating parents?

I have observed that getting emotional in front of my H, even if it isn't about him, makes him very uncomfortable. Although I wish he would do something comforting, like hug me, the opposite happens. He feels uncomfortable and can assume that I am doing something to him, or he just wants to stop it as soon as he can. So he can get angry, cut the conversation short, try to talk me out of it. This is probably what his father did to him. As they say, if the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, then you will use it with everything, and these may be the only tools to deal with emotion in my H's FOO.

I don't think we should be doormats or be OK with no attention, but I also have to realize that if my H even tries a little to talk and be understanding, that may be a huge effort for him, since he didn't have that modeled.

[ladylee]

Cerulean blue I'm not sure what the explanation is for not talking. I think they are just lost and lack communication skills so it is such a stretch for them, that they get angry. I know mine would complain that I was "breaking his balls" haha, just trying to establish contact because he wanted to isolate, obsess, or engage in something high risk and not be interrupted. My function was to be his parent or grounding mechanism, not to have needs of my own. When they communicate it is to fill their needs, then they reflect back what we need because they know they have to give something back to get what they need. Like watering a plant, but it's never an equal measure. That's just my experience, without therspy, the reflection is less and less, because we are caregivers in that setup, but we dont know it.

[flourdust]

Would it help to try something more structured rather than just talking? Playing a board game together or something like that?

[storagecold]

I'm a person that doesn't mind having quite a bit of alone time. Having said that though, I DO need some interaction. I am having issue with BPD not talking to me. Now, I don't feel this is the silent treatment I sometimes get. This has been ongoing, and I've tried to be okay with it, but the loneliness really bothers me ... .I've told him it's a need I have to interact with my spouse. I crave it, and when I don't get it, but he hits me up for SEX, I just don't want to. I used to go ahead, give him sex, but feel awful after, because it's the only way he seems to need to connect, and it just left me feeling used. He's been told, and read a ton of things to where he knows women need an emotional connection in order to want sex, but he's just too stubborn, or just to lazy, or something, to bother.

What happens when you just ignore him? Or go out without him? How does he react?

*I* am typically the one who doesn't initiate conversation with uBPDw. Most of the time, when she is in her "down" cycle, it leads to some snarky comment about me or anything associated with me, or worse. I've just had enough a lot of the time. She has wondered aloud or said directly to me, "Why don't you talk to me like to talk to everyone else?" The answer is my friends and family don't beat me up emotionally.

I have adapted to the loneliness by making the most of the time I have with others. I have friends going back decades who I still stay in touch with, and a lot of opportunity to interact with people involved in my work. I understand how you feel, though. I long for the personal interaction with uBPDw, but she is typically so busy looking for things to upset herself about (whether real or imagined) it never happens.

[Ceruleanblue]

BPD actually does like playing games, because then he doesn't have to communicate either, and his what I call "gloating", which is subtle, just annoys me. He has such need for dominance, it comes off as another way to put me down. I'm not even a competitive person, but I've noticed games have an "off" feel because of his control issues.

Actually BPDh used to say things to me like "shut the F up", and other really horrid things. Since we've reconciled, that's gotten a lot better. I was always just stunned that he'd talk to anyone like that, let alone ME! Nothing indicated he would or could act that way when we'd dated. I'd have run, and run fast.

Also, someone said something in regards to me asking him to have "heart to hearts", and that isn't what I mean when I ask for communication. All I want is some basic communication, as I know "heart to hearts" are likely not something he can give. I'd like to talk about fun stuff, or our interests, or funny things that happened during his day/my day. Just some little connection so that I don't feel so used when he expects sex. You know, stuff he talks to my daughter about, or his friends. It's just like he has nothing to say to me. He almost has to be scared to talk to me, like when he got that write up at work, saying he has three months to "improve" or face termination. He could talk then, and I was glad to listen.

Also, his FOO doesn't seem to be at all like him in this regard. His Dad is super talkative, as is my Dad, and his Mom is deceased, but everyone talks like she was very social and chatty. His siblings all talk a lot, and their spouses say they aren't uncommunicative like BPDh. They say he was always the "quiet one".

I do think he fears I'll meet someone at the foodie group. Of course that is not at all why I'm going, but I'm not going to reassure him when he isn't being direct or communicating his fears. It looks to be a nice mixed group of men and women, and of all ages. The first meet up for me is tomorrow. BPDh asked me a couple nights ago if I planned on going to them all "alone"... .. I told him that of course he can come if he's able. What I didn't was that when he has late meetings, or can't attend, I'm still going.

I need more self care, and I'm going to be selectively selfish so I don't harbor resentment, or let him control my need for interaction. If he chooses to not communicate with me(and I do believe it's a deliberate choice, due to him likely seeing that as me controlling him), then I'm going to get that need met in other ways. Plus, it's not as if I haven't asked him to do cooking classes with me, or other events, and I've gotten excuses, but then he'll blame me and say we aren't social enough. Talk about projection.  

[Ceruleanblue]

Storagecold:

Before BPDh left me last year, I did try giving him all the space he appeared to want. I didn't ignore him if he talked to me, but I filled up my time with doing my own thing, so he didn't have to devote any time to me. He didn't seem to miss it, and in fact, I was the only one who seemed to think it was weird to be married and living with someone where time spent meant nothing, and neither did communication. As long as his sexual needs were met(and they never are, no matter how much sex we have), he didn't seem to feel the loss of "us".

I couldn't sustain that, although I did it for probably a month. I think he definitely noticed, but I don't think it was outside his comfort zone. I think he wonders why anyone needs to talk to their spouse, unless it's logistics, or need to know. In fact, I'm often even the last to know things I should know, like when his family events are, and I'm often left scrambling to prepare a dish and such. He's gotten some better about keeping me informed lately, and I'm extremely thankful for that.

[Conundrum]

BPD actually does like playing games, because then he doesn't have to communicate either, and his what I call "gloating", which is subtle, just annoys me. He has such need for dominance, it comes off as another way to put me down. I'm not even a competitive person, but I've noticed games have an "off" feel because of his control issues.

How about playing a non-competitive game like in-home karaoke on Xbox or Playstation. You can even sing duets, if that's your cup of tea. It's easy to release emotionalism and sometimes pent up feelings through song choices. You get to compliment each other on a nice sounding performance and prop each other up. I've enjoyed watching my pwBPD swaying to the music while she gets all emo about the song she's singing, and sometimes I just have to get behind her, put my hands on her hips and kiss her neck. Other times, we'll just rock out and release crazy energy. Either way, it's fun and a bonding experience. Then again, if neither one of you likes singing well... .just a thought. 

[Ceruleanblue]

I love to sing, in fact, I often do it in the car. BPDh has never once mentioned that I have a nice singing voice(others have). I think I'd be too embarrassed or afraid of his criticism to sing Karaoke in front of him. I'm pretty positive he'd never do it. Getting him to sing "Happy Birthday" seems to be about his limit. I'll keep car singing though. For a while, I didn't even do that.

I just think compliments, or saying nice things to me is hard for him. He did used to comment that he liked my humming, but he hasn't said that in a long time either. It's weird, but it's just like there's no joy in him, unless he's around his grown kids, or with people he's socializing with.

And he gave his xbox to his grown son, against my wishes, because he liked his xbox. His kids manipulate him, and he thinks he can buy their love. It's sad. So, no xbox for us.

We do both love to cook, so maybe I'll plan some meals we can cook together, like we used to do, but I'll have a boundary around how I want to be treated during cooking: no criticism or suggestions of doing it his way instead of mine... .me saying how I want to be treated during cooking. The only suggestions I made to him during cooking were "could we please keep the pan handles turned in, because I fear one of us will bump it and end up burned"(can you tell I had kids, and did foster care?) I feel safety is important in the kitchen... .He was briefly in culinary school, and treats our kitchen like a restaurant kitchen, complete with expecting ME to be his sous chef... .clean up and all. Doesn't fly for me... .

[Conundrum]

Hey there, well I'm hoping you're not singing the blues too much in your car. I don't really know your story, but the impression I get is that you've forgotten for some reason that this, meaning the relationship, is supposed to be fun for you too.

That's your inalienable right. In all my years w my pwBPD I never lost track that she owed me something. Just like I owed her something too. And that's-- to make it fun and enticing. To make one's partner feel wanted, and valued. All of us deserve that.

When she stopped doing that for me, I didn't want her in the same way--any longer. And I would expect the exact same in regards to my conduct. Never feel ashamed about getting what you want from your partner. Regardless, whether non, or bbd, those are the cornerstones of a rockn relationship.

[ladylee]

When we need to talk, I have found using the telephone helpful, or going out to meet friends for coffee or a walk. If a person does not want to engage you cannot force them. Maybe they will miss you while you are out, and talk to you when you come back. A lot of people are happy with just a television set. It does not ask for anything and its purpose is to shut their mind off. I have also found ways to entertain myself and still be in the same room with him, like crocheting, or listening to music or reading, and he seemed to appreciate that I was just there and would offer me ice cream when he was getting up to get it for himself. I tried to be less needy. Like I was living by myself. I don't know if that makes sense.