Am I to blame...?

[GrowThroughIt]

Hi All,

I am/was in the processing of writing my journey of being with a uBPDexgf to becoming more self aware.  I plan to write everything out in chronological order and then add my insights in the hope it will benefit not just myself but all those reading... . Until then however, I have a few questions that I was hoping could be answered... .

My main question would be; am I to blame for being too emotional or sensitive when I feel that someone has wronged me?

I was with two of my friends recently, and I was telling them about a girl I saw and how I thought she may know me etc by the way she kept looking over and then by coming near me and staring at me... .I also explained that I held some regrets because perhaps it was an opportunity missed to meet someone new if I didn't know her.  I very rarely speak to strangers!

After I kind of finished narrating what had happened (whilst getting a bit of ribbing from my two mates, who I considered to be my best friends) one of them (Friend A) had video recorded some of my narration using an App called Snapchat, and captioned it as "*name* acting like girls are on him." My other friend (Friend B) showed me (as it was instantly shared with him) and then they made it out as if he (friend A) had shared it with everyone in his contact book.  I got really upset at this.  First off, I don't use those Apps etc so I won't be in on it and secondly, I felt like my privacy had been invaded.  I went completely into my shell after that and basically said he (friend A) is a p**ck for doing that.  Then friend B showed me his Snapchat and showed that he actually didn't send it to everyone just to him.  I have to point out, I had no issue with them taking the mick out of me, in fact I thought it would probably be funny to the point where I held of telling the story until they were both there.  I knew they would roast me, but I didn't expect the recording, for me, that was too far.  Having said that, the recording does not last and is permanently deleted after (20 - 30 seconds).

All three of us were sitting there, in what was an awkward setting, with me and friend A not speaking to each other.  And Friend A's reaction was this "Ah, you're just a b**ch man."  Friend B kept asking me if I was alright and told me it was just a joke, but then friend A just said "You know what, if he wants to be a b**ch then let him, he's just a b**ch."  When friend B asked again if I was alright, I just said (what I have been thinking for a while now), "You guys are just immature."  He laughed and looked at friend A and said "We are!"  To which I said "Yeah well, maybe you guys need to grow up then."

In all honesty, I have been known to be more sensitive than my other peers.  These friends have known me for almost 12 years since we were young, just coming into our teens.  So I can understand friend A saying what was on his mind about me taking things to heart.

The main problem for me is this;  friend A's reaction was so immature that it leaves me despondent.  He never apologised and he just got p'd off because I couldn't take a joke.  The thing is, I understand that people have boundaries, and I understand that if I ever cross those boundaries, then I should apologise because we all take offence to different things.  And this is a core thing with a few of my friends, their idea of boundaries is almost at the opposite end of mine.  There are certain limits we do not cross (ie family etc, except when he bought up the issue of my relationship with my dad with complete strangers). I know as well, that my friends would not intentionally hurt me.  

My question is this, am I wrong to not take this 'joke' on the chin?  Am I wrong to hold friend A to an apology?  :)o I just need to chill out?  Has my relationship with an uBPDexgf made me see boundary pushing in places it doesn't exist?  I am so confused... . These friends have been through so much with me.  We have had people try to stab/shoot us (don't ask!), yet we still had each others backs.  So am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill?

If indeed I have been wrong in my reaction, how do I go about repairing the friendship?  Bearing in mind, these friends rarely understand the psychological/emotional impact that situations/comments etc can have.  So I doubt he would get where I am coming from with regards to boundaries etc.

[eeks]

Hi GrowThroughIt,

I have at times been shocked at the behaviour male friends of mine tell me that their buddies have done to them, or that they themselves have participated in, as things that I would never do to someone I cared about.  It is possible that male culture is different, and even when I have male friends I will not experience this from them as a female.  I don't know if it's competitiveness, machismo, testing... .

I can tell you, for instance, if I was your friend I would not do this to you.  I might cringe to myself if I thought you were pursuing someone who obviously wasn't interested... .but I figure life is disappointing enough, our friends are there to be a refuge from that, why rub it in.  I don't want to lie to people, but when the circumstances speak for themselves, all I can do as a friend is be there to help them grieve. 

The particular aspect of your friends' behaviour here that I don't like is that they are exploiting your emotional vulnerability.  All humans have this vulnerability, and it is necessary to acknowledge in order to have healthy intimacy.  We need boundaries but we need trust too. 

We all want to connect with others, and so this public mockery (even if it was only feigned) attempting to shame you over wanting to connect but allegedly being mistaken about it... .it reminds me of bullying behaviour by teenage girls.  It wasn't good natured teasing, in my view, but a laugh at your expense.  And when they started calling you names, it makes me wonder if that means they knew they were "caught", that they had done something they shouldn't have.  I also wonder, although I may be straying too far into "amateur psychoanalysis" here, if they were attempting to process their own anxieties about women and rejection, by doing this to you. 

I can't tell you what to do, but I can say what you describe here bothers me, and maybe we can help you process some of your feelings such that your own solution becomes clear.  It sounds like you experience some social anxiety, and unfortunately these don't sound like people you can trust to confide in about that.  So I think part of your decision might be, do I bring this up with them, or accept that our friendship is going to be limited in this way and I can't really share this part of myself with them (I will have to find others to share it with).

eeks

[GrowThroughIt]

Hi GrowThroughIt,

I have at times been shocked at the behaviour male friends of mine tell me that their buddies have done to them, or that they themselves have participated in, as things that I would never do to someone I cared about.  It is possible that male culture is different, and even when I have male friends I will not experience this from them as a female.  I don't know if it's competitiveness, machismo, testing... .

I can tell you, for instance, if I was your friend I would not do this to you.  I might cringe to myself if I thought you were pursuing someone who obviously wasn't interested... .but I figure life is disappointing enough, our friends are there to be a refuge from that, why rub it in.  I don't want to lie to people, but when the circumstances speak for themselves, all I can do as a friend is be there to help them grieve. 

The particular aspect of your friends' behaviour here that I don't like is that they are exploiting your emotional vulnerability.  All humans have this vulnerability, and it is necessary to acknowledge in order to have healthy intimacy.  We need boundaries but we need trust too. 

We all want to connect with others, and so this public mockery (even if it was only feigned) attempting to shame you over wanting to connect but allegedly being mistaken about it... .it reminds me of bullying behaviour by teenage girls.  It wasn't good natured teasing, in my view, but a laugh at your expense.  And when they started calling you names, it makes me wonder if that means they knew they were "caught", that they had done something they shouldn't have.  I also wonder, although I may be straying too far into "amateur psychoanalysis" here, if they were attempting to process their own anxieties about women and rejection, by doing this to you. 

I can't tell you what to do, but I can say what you describe here bothers me, and maybe we can help you process some of your feelings such that your own solution becomes clear.  It sounds like you experience some social anxiety, and unfortunately these don't sound like people you can trust to confide in about that.  So I think part of your decision might be, do I bring this up with them, or accept that our friendship is going to be limited in this way and I can't really share this part of myself with them (I will have to find others to share it with).

eeks

Hi Eeks! 

Thank you for the reply!

I'm not sure if I was clear in my original post, or if I'm reading your post wrong!

I never spoke to the woman in question or anything like that.  It was more a case of, "she may have been interested (or knew me from somewhere) but I never spoke to her to find out!"  The thing is, I've had situations like this before, in front if these friends (girls would tell them that they liked me) yet I would not get to know the girl and let the opportunity to walk through a door pass me by.  This is something they know about me, so I kind of expected them to take the mick out of me.

What I didn't like, and when I thought it went too far, was when he recorded me.  I felt really violated.  As if, he violated my privacy.  I can't explain why it annoyed me so much, but I think you may be on to something when you say they exploited my emotional vulnerability.

I think you are right about the social anxiety thing.  Having said that, when I mentioned to a girl the other day that knew me for about 2 days, that I am a shy person, she exclaimed "You're shy?  In what World are you shy?", ie I apparently do not come across shy... .

I am so confused right now... .!

[eeks]

I never spoke to the woman in question or anything like that.  It was more a case of, "she may have been interested (or knew me from somewhere) but I never spoke to her to find out!"  The thing is, I've had situations like this before, in front if these friends (girls would tell them that they liked me) yet I would not get to know the girl and let the opportunity to walk through a door pass me by.  This is something they know about me, so I kind of expected them to take the mick out of me.

No, you were clear and you're not reading it wrong, I was just thinking about the boundaries of what I would say to a friend and when... .and what situations might make me feel uncomfortable, where I would be hesitant to say what was on my mind... .and I gave a hypothetical that was different from your situation.   

I think I had in mind a friend a few years ago who was interested in a guy who seemed interested in her... .but we were out with a group and I noticed him flirting with his female friends... .and with me.  So I think she interpreted his flirty nature as interest, and from another guy it might be, but not from him because he did it with a lot of women.  And I didn't tell her some of the things I was thinking, but she figured out for herself that she was seeing what she wanted to see, and I think that was best.

My response to your situation is still similar though, considering that your issue is one where you feel you're missing opportunities to talk to women, maybe having some anxiety about "reading the signs right"?  Oh, she is looking at me smiling, does that mean she's interested?  How "obvious" does it have to be before I approach? 

... .I would say there is a way friends can tease one another that supports the friend's growth, risk-taking and confidence... .and ways that aren't supportive.  And it depends on the person and the situation.

What would you prefer?  How would your "ideal" friend respond in a situation like the one you were in? 

[fromheeltoheal]

My main question would be; am I to blame for being too emotional or sensitive when I feel that someone has wronged me?

No.  Our emotions are never wrong, you feel the way you feel, and you now have a choice to make:

1. Say less to those friends and make it more of a superficial relationship.

2. Say more to them, express some vulnerability and open up to them honestly and openly, with the goal of deepening the friendships.

3. Remove them from your life entirely.

I very rarely speak to strangers!

Would it be beneficial to set that as a goal?  There's a difference between talking to "strangers" and talking to a woman you find attractive, but my experience is if you talk to everyone, and strangers aren't "strange" anyway, they're just people you don't know yet, but if you talk to everyone in a relaxed, centered way, attractive women might just talk to you, hallelujah!

To which I said "Yeah well, maybe you guys need to grow up then."

In all honesty, I have been known to be more sensitive than my other peers.  These friends have known me for almost 12 years since we were young, just coming into our teens.  So I can understand friend A saying what was on his mind about me taking things to heart.

I know as well, that my friends would not intentionally hurt me.  

These friends have been through so much with me.  

If indeed I have been wrong in my reaction, how do I go about repairing the friendship?  Bearing in mind, these friends rarely understand the psychological/emotional impact that situations/comments etc can have.  So I doubt he would get where I am coming from with regards to boundaries etc.

One of the reasons men give each other sht is to toughen them up, test boundaries, inspire reinforcement of boundaries, to prepare them to enter relationships with women.  And after the boundary-busting experience of a relationship with a borderline, we can see the benefit more clearly, yes?

And another reason is competition, machismo, comparison of penis length, you know, the way testosterone-fueled men are, not a bad thing really, the root of the word "compete" is to meet, to come together, to conspire with; healthy competition makes everyone stronger, but it's up to us to decide if it's healthy or not, or just crosses the line into abuse.

Maybe instead of suggesting your friends grow up, you might consider that the relationships grow up.  You guys have known each other for a long time, since you were kids, and as adults there may be an opportunity for the relationship to mature, where adult things get discussed and get taken to another level.  None of my childhood relationships lasted into adulthood, values changed, priorities changed, and although I have fond memories of those relationships from my childhood, they didn't evolve and mature, and building adult relationships with other people became more important.  That's OK, for all of us to decide, but your emotions are never wrong, and maybe folks who don't respect them don't belong in your life, but they need to know that they disrespected you too, and sharing that is a way to help the friendship evolve and mature.  Take care of you!

[GrowThroughIt]

I never spoke to the woman in question or anything like that.  It was more a case of, "she may have been interested (or knew me from somewhere) but I never spoke to her to find out!"  The thing is, I've had situations like this before, in front if these friends (girls would tell them that they liked me) yet I would not get to know the girl and let the opportunity to walk through a door pass me by.  This is something they know about me, so I kind of expected them to take the mick out of me.

No, you were clear and you're not reading it wrong, I was just thinking about the boundaries of what I would say to a friend and when... .and what situations might make me feel uncomfortable, where I would be hesitant to say what was on my mind... .and I gave a hypothetical that was different from your situation.   

I think I had in mind a friend a few years ago who was interested in a guy who seemed interested in her... .but we were out with a group and I noticed him flirting with his female friends... .and with me.  So I think she interpreted his flirty nature as interest, and from another guy it might be, but not from him because he did it with a lot of women.  And I didn't tell her some of the things I was thinking, but she figured out for herself that she was seeing what she wanted to see, and I think that was best.

My response to your situation is still similar though, considering that your issue is one where you feel you're missing opportunities to talk to women, maybe having some anxiety about "reading the signs right"?  Oh, she is looking at me smiling, does that mean she's interested?  How "obvious" does it have to be before I approach? 

... .I would say there is a way friends can tease one another that supports the friend's growth, risk-taking and confidence... .and ways that aren't supportive.  And it depends on the person and the situation.

What would you prefer?  How would your "ideal" friend respond in a situation like the one you were in? 

Hi eeks!

Thanks for the reply.

I would have preferred it if my friends were not so dismissive of what I was mentioning.  I wish they had recognized the things that you had pointed out, and had not been so dismissive of them.

I feel like it was over the mark in the way that they went too far!  However, I except that these are friends that have different boundaries to me.  I also except that we have grown apart in a way.

Once again, thanks for the reply!  Always helpful!

[GrowThroughIt]

My main question would be; am I to blame for being too emotional or sensitive when I feel that someone has wronged me?

No.  Our emotions are never wrong, you feel the way you feel, and you now have a choice to make:

1. Say less to those friends and make it more of a superficial relationship.

2. Say more to them, express some vulnerability and open up to them honestly and openly, with the goal of deepening the friendships.

3. Remove them from your life entirely.

I very rarely speak to strangers!

Would it be beneficial to set that as a goal?  There's a difference between talking to "strangers" and talking to a woman you find attractive, but my experience is if you talk to everyone, and strangers aren't "strange" anyway, they're just people you don't know yet, but if you talk to everyone in a relaxed, centered way, attractive women might just talk to you, hallelujah!

To which I said "Yeah well, maybe you guys need to grow up then."

In all honesty, I have been known to be more sensitive than my other peers.  These friends have known me for almost 12 years since we were young, just coming into our teens.  So I can understand friend A saying what was on his mind about me taking things to heart.

I know as well, that my friends would not intentionally hurt me.  

These friends have been through so much with me.  

If indeed I have been wrong in my reaction, how do I go about repairing the friendship?  Bearing in mind, these friends rarely understand the psychological/emotional impact that situations/comments etc can have.  So I doubt he would get where I am coming from with regards to boundaries etc.



One of the reasons men give each other sht is to toughen them up, test boundaries, inspire reinforcement of boundaries, to prepare them to enter relationships with women.  And after the boundary-busting experience of a relationship with a borderline, we can see the benefit more clearly, yes?

And another reason is competition, machismo, comparison of penis length, you know, the way testosterone-fueled men are, not a bad thing really, the root of the word "compete" is to meet, to come together, to conspire with; healthy competition makes everyone stronger, but it's up to us to decide if it's healthy or not, or just crosses the line into abuse.

Maybe instead of suggesting your friends grow up, you might consider that the relationships grow up.  You guys have known each other for a long time, since you were kids, and as adults there may be an opportunity for the relationship to mature, where adult things get discussed and get taken to another level.  None of my childhood relationships lasted into adulthood, values changed, priorities changed, and although I have fond memories of those relationships from my childhood, they didn't evolve and mature, and building adult relationships with other people became more important.  That's OK, for all of us to decide, but your emotions are never wrong, and maybe folks who don't respect them don't belong in your life, but they need to know that they disrespected you too, and sharing that is a way to help the friendship evolve and mature.  Take care of you!

Hi Heel,

Thank you for the detailed and well articulated response.

Unfortunately, I would have to say that I am going to have to go for option 1!

I would have loved for this friendship to have developed further into adulthood, but it seems that it was not meant to be.  Although I do value what each one of them brings to my life, we all seem to be following different scripts.

You certainly have given me food for thought!

[GrowThroughIt]

Thank you for all the replies.

In end, I apologised to my friend for calling him immature and telling them all to grow up.

I've realised that I have different boundaries to them.  Although I feel like I am perhaps always running away from those that insult me, I need to get over that feeling.  I have spent my formative years allowing my boundaries to be eroded to the point where I hold much resentment and trauma.  I feel I need to be around people who respect boundaries, as I would respect theirs.

My friend brushed it all off as if it was nothing, which I am thankful for.  He did however fail to apologise for his part.  Although I thought I should apologise for my part (albeit with much hesitancy and reluctance) I had at least expected him to acknowledge his role in it aswell, especially as he is the one who first crossed a boundary!

Alas!  Heel (BPD Family member above) is correct, an option that is available to me is to have a more superficial relationship with these people.  I hope in time, that can/will change.  Until then, I must look after myself!