Some thoughts after 3 months of NC

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I've just been having some late night thoughts. It's been about three months since my exgfwBPD and I broke up, and just as long with NC. I've been moving on and detaching, and I'm proud of myself for how far I've come.

After breaking up, I used to keep the positive memories of her basically in the front of my mind. Although I came to realize that BPD was a huge factor in our relationship, I never let it become something to use to hate about her for her actions. For a long time I was wondering and hoping if she'd come back, then I didn't want her to, then I was actually afraid that she'd try again. Today, though, I'm completely indifferent. It's almost a non-issue for me. I think about her still, but almost in a neutral sense. I would probably never take her back if she were to try, but I would like to speak to her again. I don't want to know what she's been up to, though. I have no interest in catching up or finally having the "good luck and I wish you well" conversation.

And as far as past memories go, it's hard for me to believe that I even spent 3 years with this person. All of my little mini-vacations down in her city, spending a great 3-4 days then driving back up. It's almost become like a "phantom past," as if it never even happened. All of the good times and the bad, the love, the turmoil, the fog, it's all in the past. The stress she put on me has almost completely lifted.

I've also come to accept that she will indeed try again. Not today or tomorrow, but soon. She replaced me very quickly, and somebody in her camp recently informed me that she's completely using him. That's something I speculated for a couple of months, and it felt great to hear it from my friend without me even prodding for this information. All of my friends and family (except my mother) believe that she's going to try again.

The funny thing though, is that if this were a normal relationship with two rationally minded human being, this post would be merely a reflection and me coming to terms with my past romance. Not so with BPD. I still have all of her stuff here, she still hasn't eliminated me from her Facebook life, etc. The writing is on the wall, so to speak. But I've been moving on, casting her out of my life, starting a new chapter. It's kind of hard to do that though when you realize you still have a storage locker full of your past relationship (literally).

In the end I'll likely have to be the one to break NC and tell her to come get her things and finally put this to bed. As indifferent as I've become, I'm still a bit afraid of that. I don't know what she'll say or how she'll react. Also, if I just keep waiting for her to sort this out and let her reach out to me, I don't know what I'll say to her.

My BPD partner, like all of yours, has done damage. She's betrayed my trust more than once. Looking back and putting the puzzle together, I can see a big string of infidelity, lying, and extreme manipulation. That's not something I can allow back into my life. I deserve a faithful partner who will give and take, who will be there for me when I'm down instead of saying "I'm dating a woman," and who won't pressure me into marriage, unprotected sex, drugs, etc.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss her, but realistically I miss the newness of her. The girl I first met. The girl who looked at me with those extreme loving eyes. Not the girl who would come up here, plop on my couch, whip out her phone, then immediately start an argument with me and say "I don't even know why I came here." There's nothing wrong with holding onto those good times, because they were indeed genuine. I don't believe that the "good side" of the BPD is doing anything deliberate to lure you in. Her and I definitely shared some warm moments that I can cherish, but those moments are no longer in the front of my mind.

Sorry for the ramble, but these were just some late night thoughts of mine. Kind of funny, actually, because this is right around the 3 year anniversary of when we first met. The crazy thing is that time doesn't seem to be a factor for them. Three months apart, especially after a 3 year relationship, really isn't that much time. It feels like an eternity though. I can look at back at how I was in that first stage of the breakup versus today and I can't believe how far I've come.

So anyways, I hope that the fog is lifting for you as well. If not, you'll get there. Trust me. No contact and detach. Hold onto the good memories, but don't hold onto the past. We all deserve better in the end.

[burritoman]

I've just been having some late night thoughts. It's been about three months since my exgfwBPD and I broke up, and just as long with NC. I've been moving on and detaching, and I'm proud of myself for how far I've come.

After breaking up, I used to keep the positive memories of her basically in the front of my mind. Although I came to realize that BPD was a huge factor in our relationship, I never let it become something to use to hate about her for her actions. For a long time I was wondering and hoping if she'd come back, then I didn't want her to, then I was actually afraid that she'd try again. Today, though, I'm completely indifferent. It's almost a non-issue for me. I think about her still, but almost in a neutral sense. I would probably never take her back if she were to try, but I would like to speak to her again. I don't want to know what she's been up to, though. I have no interest in catching up or finally having the "good luck and I wish you well" conversation.

And as far as past memories go, it's hard for me to believe that I even spent 3 years with this person. All of my little mini-vacations down in her city, spending a great 3-4 days then driving back up. It's almost become like a "phantom past," as if it never even happened. All of the good times and the bad, the love, the turmoil, the fog, it's all in the past. The stress she put on me has almost completely lifted.

I've also come to accept that she will indeed try again. Not today or tomorrow, but soon. She replaced me very quickly, and somebody in her camp recently informed me that she's completely using him. That's something I speculated for a couple of months, and it felt great to hear it from my friend without me even prodding for this information. All of my friends and family (except my mother) believe that she's going to try again.

The funny thing though, is that if this were a normal relationship with two rationally minded human being, this post would be merely a reflection and me coming to terms with my past romance. Not so with BPD. I still have all of her stuff here, she still hasn't eliminated me from her Facebook life, etc. The writing is on the wall, so to speak. But I've been moving on, casting her out of my life, starting a new chapter. It's kind of hard to do that though when you realize you still have a storage locker full of your past relationship (literally).

In the end I'll likely have to be the one to break NC and tell her to come get her things and finally put this to bed. As indifferent as I've become, I'm still a bit afraid of that. I don't know what she'll say or how she'll react. Also, if I just keep waiting for her to sort this out and let her reach out to me, I don't know what I'll say to her.

My BPD partner, like all of yours, has done damage. She's betrayed my trust more than once. Looking back and putting the puzzle together, I can see a big string of infidelity, lying, and extreme manipulation. That's not something I can allow back into my life. I deserve a faithful partner who will give and take, who will be there for me when I'm down instead of saying "I'm dating a woman," and who won't pressure me into marriage, unprotected sex, drugs, etc.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss her, but realistically I miss the newness of her. The girl I first met. The girl who looked at me with those extreme loving eyes. Not the girl who would come up here, plop on my couch, whip out her phone, then immediately start an argument with me and say "I don't even know why I came here." There's nothing wrong with holding onto those good times, because they were indeed genuine. I don't believe that the "good side" of the BPD is doing anything deliberate to lure you in. Her and I definitely shared some warm moments that I can cherish, but those moments are no longer in the front of my mind.

Sorry for the ramble, but these were just some late night thoughts of mine. Kind of funny, actually, because this is right around the 3 year anniversary of when we first met. The crazy thing is that time doesn't seem to be a factor for them. Three months apart, especially after a 3 year relationship, really isn't that much time. It feels like an eternity though. I can look at back at how I was in that first stage of the breakup versus today and I can't believe how far I've come.

So anyways, I hope that the fog is lifting for you as well. If not, you'll get there. Trust me. No contact and detach. Hold onto the good memories, but don't hold onto the past. We all deserve better in the end.

[divina]

I wish I felt that way. For me, it's been about two months, but I don't feel anywhere close to closure.  And I'm beginning to feel like the only way we will resolve or close anything is me breaking contact.  It makes me so angry because given the circumstances, he should come to me. The most humiliating thing is he has never fought for me. He's charmed me after I made first contact, but he could never bring himself to apologize. The best thing I have ever gotten after egregious behavior was a long silent treatment followed by a phone call that initiated by him as "what's up?"  as if nothing happened. SIGH. I'm happy for you that you were able to detach.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi burritoman,

Well done for persevering. It's been my experience that things feel so much better once the fog of attachment and longing lift and that it is almost hard to believe that the relationship ever happened. To me, it could have been another person involved, not me. With regard to her belongings, I'd say create a plan... .and rope in some friends to support you in executing that plan so contact is kept safe and at appropriate levels. Good luck.

Hi divina,

Not everyone detaches in the same way so don't be concerned that you feel that you need to break nc. I did that a number of times and had 8 recycles with my BPDxbf until I finally realised that it was over and I felt able to let go. I needed to keep going back to get closure. Many people recycle, there's no shame in it, as long as you give consideration to your personal safety. It doesn't matter how you detach, the ultimate goal is the same. But, detachment, when it comes, is wonderful. I feel like a massive burden has been taken from me... .I'm still having to deal with family of origin stuff, grieving, crying, feeling vulnerable, but I still feel unburdened. Trust your intuition about what you need to do. I truly believe that all relationships happen because we have a lesson to learn from them and either we continue in this particular relationship until the lesson is learned or we repeat the lesson in another relationship. My policy is get it over and done with so the next relationship can be a better one.

Love to you both

Lifewriter x

[steelwork]

I wish I felt that way. For me, it's been about two months, but I don't feel anywhere close to closure.  And I'm beginning to feel like the only way we will resolve or close anything is me breaking contact.  It makes me so angry because given the circumstances, he should come to me. The most humiliating thing is he has never fought for me. He's charmed me after I made first contact, but he could never bring himself to apologize. The best thing I have ever gotten after egregious behavior was a long silent treatment followed by a phone call that initiated by him as "what's up?"  as if nothing happened. SIGH. I'm happy for you that you were able to detach.

I feel you. Similar experience, but I'm 11 months out from end of contact (minus a short bland housekeeping exchange, 1 email each).

If I made contact I'd have the choice between more "hi, what's up?" (useless to me) and trying for a meaningful exchange. I have no reason to expect that would be any more successful now than it was 11 months ago.

Which means i leave him out of resolving and closing.

[bdyw8]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss her, but realistically I miss the newness of her. The girl I first met. The girl who looked at me with those extreme loving eyes. Not the girl who would come up here, plop on my couch, whip out her phone, then immediately start an argument with me and say "I don't even know why I came here." There's nothing wrong with holding onto those good times, because they were indeed genuine. I don't believe that the "good side" of the BPD is doing anything deliberate to lure you in. Her and I definitely shared some warm moments that I can cherish, but those moments are no longer in the front of my mind.

I know exactly what you mean - the only thing I'm holding on to is what it was like when she really seemed to love, value and care about me.  When she showed me true understanding and empathy... .these times were all in the beginning or in the few short reincarnations of the "idealization" stage after I would end things after being pushed to the brink of insanity (or completely over it).  Those idealization stages got shorter and shorter and farther and farther between.

With me, I don't even want to hold on to the good memories to be honest.  Because I'm realizing now the good memories weren't real.  Those images of her being caring and understanding and giving were not her.  It was fake.  So for me, I feel like I need to let go of all the good along with the bad. 

Kudos to you Buritoman for the work you've done to detach.  I'm at a month and a half after the last merry go round and I feel like I'm slowly starting to detach as well a little bit at a time... .  hoping I'll be where you're at soon!

Thanks for the great post...

[bdyw8]

I wish I felt that way. For me, it's been about two months, but I don't feel anywhere close to closure.  And I'm beginning to feel like the only way we will resolve or close anything is me breaking contact.  It makes me so angry because given the circumstances, he should come to me. The most humiliating thing is he has never fought for me. He's charmed me after I made first contact, but he could never bring himself to apologize. The best thing I have ever gotten after egregious behavior was a long silent treatment followed by a phone call that initiated by him as "what's up?"  as if nothing happened. SIGH. I'm happy for you that you were able to detach.

Hey divina, I know how you feel.  I so badly want my exBPD to come back and say how sorry she is for stalking me to the point that I finally took her back only to be dumped again two weeks later.  I would love her to acknowledge all the trauma she caused me.  However, these people are incapable of understanding these things.  They are incapable of seeing how their actions hurt others.  The only apologies I ever got from her were short lived and manipulative as she only apologized to get me back.  And then a few days later, she would be doing the same thing over again.  I told her this last time when she dumped me that I don't want anything from her anymore, not apologies, nothing... .

I read this little quote on the internet one day... .

"Closure is a joke.  The only apology you need is the one you owe yourself for staying as long as you did.  The only conversation you need to have and the only person you need to see again is the person in the mirror.  Look at yourself and say 'you know what, I fxxked up.  My worth is more than that'.   That's your closure.  Don't keep dancing with the devil and wonder why you are still in hell."

[steelwork]

^^^ bdyw8, this is my goal now. For sure.

[hopealways]

I wish I felt that way. For me, it's been about two months, but I don't feel anywhere close to closure.  And I'm beginning to feel like the only way we will resolve or close anything is me breaking contact.  It makes me so angry because given the circumstances, he should come to me. The most humiliating thing is he has never fought for me. He's charmed me after I made first contact, but he could never bring himself to apologize. The best thing I have ever gotten after egregious behavior was a long silent treatment followed by a phone call that initiated by him as "what's up?"  as if nothing happened. SIGH. I'm happy for you that you were able to detach.

Hey divina, I know how you feel.  I so badly want my exBPD to come back and say how sorry she is for stalking me to the point that I finally took her back only to be dumped again two weeks later.  I would love her to acknowledge all the trauma she caused me.  However, these people are incapable of understanding these things.  They are incapable of seeing how their actions hurt others.  The only apologies I ever got from her were short lived and manipulative as she only apologized to get me back.  And then a few days later, she would be doing the same thing over again.  I told her this last time when she dumped me that I don't want anything from her anymore, not apologies, nothing... .

I read this little quote on the internet one day... .



"Closure is a joke.  The only apology you need is the one you owe yourself for staying as long as you did.  The only conversation you need to have and the only person you need to see again is the person in the mirror.  Look at yourself and say 'you know what, I fxxked up.  My worth is more than that'.   That's your closure.  Don't keep dancing with the devil and wonder why you are still in hell."

I love this quote!

[Jonathan Ricciardi]

Hopealways, I respect that your recovering as am I.  I'm 46 my ex is 43. I don't buy the argument that these people are incapable of feeling how they hurt others. Let me try to explain, one doesn't go to High School, college, read books, watch movies or TV, have family and friends, and doesn't comprehend hurt? Unless they're are invalids, it's not true. Maybe a better way to say it, is they ignore or don't accept these feelings. Another aspect of this is, it takes emotions to get into a relationship, just like there is emotions getting out. To think that these people are invalids and have no comprehension is wrong. I think therapists and doctors are wrong on this that BPds lack empathy, no way one can go through life like that. These people couldn't handle life if this were true, we would have hospitals filled with empathyless people.

[steelwork]

I think therapists and doctors are wrong on this that BPds lack empathy, no way one can go through life like that. These people couldn't handle life if this were true, we would have hospitals filled with empathyless people.

From what I've read, the consensus seems to be that pwBPD are not lacking empathy--more that they are so swamped with their own overwhelming emotions during times of stress that the feelings of others get kind of drowned out. I think it's sociopaths who lack empathy.

[Jonathan Ricciardi]

Whether the illness is BPD, HPD, NPD or anything else sociopaths, and psychopaths.  These people aren't invalids.  It takes emotions to get into a relationship, just like it take emotions to get out of a relationship.  These people aren't zombies like some claim, who would get involved with a zombie?  These people are great at getting others to make excuses for their behavior.

[bdyw8]

Perhaps, my experience after going round and round with my exBPD is that the only times she showed empathy were during idealization.  Shortly after, all the "acknowledgements" she made were retracted and she went back to blaming me and minimizing my feelings.

So perhaps they can feel empathy, but it is short lived and they don't accept it on an ongoing basis.  To make "amends" means "to change".  My exBPD was unable or unwilling to be honest enough with herself to make changes.  Apologies and recognition for wrongdoing are great, but if they're not followed up by action, then there's not much point.

If someone apologized for beating the crap out of their spouse physically, but then continued to do it time and time again, those apologies would mean nothing over time.   The lines are so clear with physical abuse, but with emotional abuse we tend to go too soft on people that inflict this kind of abuse because you can't visibly see scars and bruises.  For this reason, my exBPD would minimize the pain and trauma she had caused me with 2 years of psychological and emotional abuse.  So at the end of the day, whatever empathy she had came at the wrong times and was used more as a manipulation tactic than actual acceptance of wrong-doing followed by an honest attempt at making real amends going forward.  

Again, this was my 4 year experience with my exBPD and is in no way an indictment of all the people on this board.  My exBPD was very high functioning and her mask fooled everyone in her family, her friends, co-workers, etc.  Only once did her sister ask me what was happening with her and I told her she had serious issues but wouldn't open up to me (or anyone) for help or support.  And believe me I tried to hold her hand to uncover her demons as she did with my own recovery.  Sad in retrospect I guess... .

[burritoman]

Perhaps, my experience after going round and round with my exBPD is that the only times she showed empathy were during idealization.  Shortly after, all the "acknowledgements" she made were retracted and she went back to blaming me and minimizing my feelings.

So perhaps they can feel empathy, but it is short lived and they don't accept it on an ongoing basis.  To make "amends" means "to change".  My exBPD was unable or unwilling to be honest enough with herself to make changes.  Apologies and recognition for wrongdoing are great, but if they're not followed up by action, then there's not much point.

If someone apologized for beating the crap out of their spouse physically, but then continued to do it time and time again, those apologies would mean nothing over time.   The lines are so clear with physical abuse, but with emotional abuse we tend to go too soft on people that inflict this kind of abuse because you can't visibly see scars and bruises.  For this reason, my exBPD would minimize the pain and trauma she had caused me with 2 years of psychological and emotional abuse.  So at the end of the day, whatever empathy she had came at the wrong times and was used more as a manipulation tactic than actual acceptance of wrong-doing followed by an honest attempt at making real amends going forward.  

Again, this was my 4 year experience with my exBPD and is in no way an indictment of all the people on this board.  My exBPD was very high functioning and her mask fooled everyone in her family, her friends, co-workers, etc.  Only once did her sister ask me what was happening with her and I told her she had serious issues but wouldn't open up to me (or anyone) for help or support.  And believe me I tried to hold her hand to uncover her demons as she did with my own recovery.  Sad in retrospect I guess... .

I don't buy it that they lack empathy, and yes, mine also would show me great amounts but then strip it away when I was devalued.

In my case it was strange. She was extremely empathetic to animals, children, or the less fortunate, but her views on murder, tragedy, addiction, etc. lacked empathy. Not always, though. She showed the least empathy to me overall. It happens to those they're closest to, especially romantic partners.

For example, my dad had a very serious extended stay in the hospital, and I was talking with her on the phone trying to vent and come to terms with his impending death. I was expecting to get some comfort from my girlfriend of almost three years. She coldly told me "you'll be fine. In five years you'll be fine." When confronted about her response she said "I lost my dad when I was very young so I don't really have that sympathetic side to identify with you," or something to that effect. Other times though she would call and say "I just want to know how your dad is doing," and that was the extent of the conversation. Early on in the relationship, though, she was the model empathetic person.

[Hebrides]

I have had limited contact with my uBPD, soon to be exHusband, and have not seen him since November 2013. I am not really a new member as I first reached out to the group in 2013 when I was truly desperate - and you all really helped me at the time. Re-reading my posts at that time makes me cry - I had almost forgotten the reality of some of the terror. And I have not been on the bpdfamily site properly since I was fully no contact between June 2014 and December 2015. Life definitely improved.

I wasn't really sure where to send a post, or whether to start a new one - but this thread chimed a chord with me and I loved the quote from yesterday. I hope you don't mind my chipping in with a slightly different issue?

I thought that I was doing really well - still very single and not ready for anyone else in my life, but beginning to piece my life together and slowly rebuilding new expertise in new fields - and enjoying working. Still broke but I now have a lovely safe home, neighbours, friends family and very cute small dog. And then, after 18 months of no contact, I initiated divorce proceedings in December 2015, and thought that out of courtesy I should notify him of progress. He does have someone else in his life and seems to be going along well from what I hear through mutual friends. Whilst his responses have been about as cold and passive aggressive as they could get, he has been courteous; and to my great delight, he is making the arrangements for my belongings to be collected from him and shipped back to the UK - this means a great deal to me.

So I don't understand why I feel as I do. I am back to that constant fear in the pit of my stomach, writing now in the middle of the night and foolishly getting colder as I promise myself I should go to bed. I again feel empty and tearful, and look in trepidation at my email every day in case he send me something that really upsets me. There is no logic to this as I really don't think he will be difficult as he has moved on; but he was so very awful and terrifying when I was with him that I keep getting drawn again into those old thoughts and they recycle around my head. It is ridiculous! I think that I am afraid that this shipment is the last hold he has over me and he will use it to hurt me big-time in some way. I honestly cannot see how this would happen - and I had already given up on my belongings, so why am I so afraid? And so all this leads to me thinking of my life that I left behind - the good as well as the bad. And the foolishness of falling in love with him at the expensive of everything and everyone around me at that time - and so the complete devastation of my life that was the result.

I hoped that if I reached out to you, I would feel better by sharing how I am feeling. I feel that this group understands somehow why logic is hard to keep hold of, and that once it starts to slip from your grasp it is even more difficult to pull it back. I truly cannot believe how badly this can still affect me since it is over 2 years since I last saw him, and he is on another continent! I won't believe that the end is finally here until the shipment has left and I have the Decree Absolute in my hand.Then perhaps I will believe it is truly over and start to heal.

Maybe I just need a big virtual hug? 

[steelwork]

Hebrides:

(([hug]))

You're doing good.