Enabling or helping?

[Nana49]

My almost 20 year old BPD granddaughter (more like daughter as we have raised her since she months old) is home from college on semester break. Fall 2015 was her first semester back at her out of state college since she her suicide attempt in December 2014. She is in counseling (required for her re-admission to school).  We thought she was found better but she has told us that she had s very bad November and did not attend her classes. She says she was just trying to keep herself from attempting suicide again which thankfully she did not do. She says she tried to get her studio apartment organized but just kept getting so overwhelmed and anxious she just couldn't. She wants me to fly back and help her get it organized and cleaned up. (As background she moved into the apartment in September but wanted to set it up herself without help so I did not help get it set up.) she says she doesn't want me to do it for her-she wants me to tell her how and help when needed, but she wants to learn how to organized and keep it that way. She also said she wants to Skype me every week to show it is kept up.

My husband thinks she is manipulating me (which I don't understand as she usually doesn't want my help) and that doing this would only be enabling her. He cannot understand how she can feel overwhelmed and get anxiety about your own mess and why she feels she can't do it alone. He will not stop me from going but I know he will not be happy about it.  I feel that if she is asking for my help her DBT therapy might be helping and if I don't help her it may cause her to go back to not talking to me about how she feels.

I would appreciate any input into what other parents have done or would do in this situation. Thank you!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[thefixermom]

I have made the trip.  Five years ago. Big trip for me because I had sworn off flying at the time and had to get on a plane to travel from one coast to  the other across country.  I'm glad I did it and would do it again if I were to go back in time and remake the decision. It may have been enabling to a degree, hard to say, but it was important for both of us.  I spent 3 weeks there and together we organized, painted, and went through every nook and cranny.  The sad state that I found my D in was very heartbreaking and I don't think she could or would, have pulled herself out of it.  It was not a miracle working trip.  My D is still struggling and her things are a mess to this day.  It's a tough decision you'll have to make of course. My husband was supportive of me and that helped a lot. He actually flew out and spent the last three days with me so that I wouldn't have to fly back home alone. We had a great time (he and I) and my D and I did, too, but it was laced with some very bad times as well, like the time she abandoned me on foot in the big city as the sun was setting and i had to find my way back to her home through some sketchy neighborhoods!  Be prepared for anything happening. I was clueless about BPD at that time so didn't always say the right thing and triggered her a few times.   If you do go, I hope your husband can get his head around being there for you because it will make a difference in a difficult enough trip as it is.   I also think you need to go in without too high of expectations and be ready to lovingly accept if things do not work out as planned. I looked at it as an opportunity to work with and be close to my daughter and know in my heart that I was there for her... .gave me something to look back upon during subsequent difficult times.  I have helped launch her since then, too. Today, she is struggling but has inched a lot closer to being in control of her life than in the past. She moderates herself better and takes more responsibility.  It's been a very slow journey for us both. Me learning to detach with love and her accepting that she owns her own life.   I was not ready to just tell her no five years ago. I'm glad I didn't because I don't think she was ready to accept my "no" in a healthy way yet like she is now.  

[SoSoSoTired]

I'm sorry you've experienced such turmoil and it's affecting your relationship with your husband.   You sound like you have the best intentions for your granddaughter.

Do you know for certain that she is attending her DBT classes?  People with Borderline Personality Disorder can easily lie or tell partial truths. Please know that DBT curriculum doesn't encourage patients to ask others to do things for them which they are capable of doing.  You can order a DBT manual at Amazon.com and see for yourself what she is learning in DBT. 

Did you pay the tuition for your granddaughter to go to college?  Flunking out of two semesters must have been very expensive.  Learn about setting boundaries by attending therapy yourself or reading books about BPD.  It's okay to say no to her.  It's okay for you to refuse to go clean her messy apartment.  It's also okay for you to not pay for more college until she's completed her DBT program and proven she's emotionally capable of passing. For example, she could get a successfully hold a full-time job for a year to determine if she's mentally prepared to attend college again.

I read some very helpful books that are available on Kindle: When Hope is Not Enough and

Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist.

These helped me.  I hope they will help you. 

[Nana49]

I'm sorry you've experienced such turmoil and it's affecting your relationship with your husband.   You sound like you have the best intentions for your granddaughter.

Do you know for certain that she is attending her DBT classes?  People with Borderline Personality Disorder can easily lie or tell partial truths. Please know that DBT curriculum doesn't encourage patients to ask others to do things for them which they are capable of doing.  You can order a DBT manual at Amazon.com and see for yourself what she is learning in DBT. 

Did you pay the tuition for your granddaughter to go to college?  Flunking out of two semesters must have been very expensive.  Learn about setting boundaries by attending therapy yourself or reading books about BPD.  It's okay to say no to her.  It's okay for you to refuse to go clean her messy apartment.  It's also okay for you to not pay for more college until she's completed her DBT program and proven she's emotionally capable of passing. For example, she could get a successfully hold a full-time job for a year to determine if she's mentally prepared to attend college again.

I read some very helpful books that are available on Kindle: When Hope is Not Enough and

Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist.

These helped me.  I hope they will help you. 

She is in college on basically on full scholarship. We provide her with supplies, books, and a small food budget. She was able to take her finals for fall 2015 and earned A's and B's. This fall she got one C and the rest A's and B's. She has to go to the counseling or she cannot stay at the college. It has always amazed me that she can do well in school (though if she was really working to capacity would get all A's as she is really intelligent.). School work seems to be the only area of her life she has any control over. I will definitely look into the books you suggested and thank you for your response.

[SoSoSoTired]

That is amazing that she missed the entire month of November's classes while suicidal and living in a disorganized apartment, but was able to take her final exams and made good scores.   If you didn't personally check on her final grades, you should personally speak with her college's bursar.   Please forgive me for being so pessimistic.  I unfortunately know from first hand experience how BPDs can lie and manipulate.

[Nana49]

That is amazing that she missed the entire month of November's classes while suicidal and living in a disorganized apartment, but was able to take her final exams and made good scores.   If you didn't personally check on her final grades, you should personally speak with her college's bursar.   Please forgive me for being so pessimistic.  I unfortunately know from first hand experience how BPDs can lie and manipulate.

I totally understand and don't think it is pessimistic- more like realistic. She showed me the grades online do I know she is telling me the truth. I really do appreciate your responses.

[Turkish]

What drives the desire of not keeping a messy apartment? Is there a background to this anxiety?

[Nana49]

What drives the desire of not keeping a messy apartment? Is there a background to this anxiety?

I wish I could find that out. She says it causes her a lot of anxiety but that anxiety seems to be outdone by something else. Any clues as to how to find out why?  I have racked my brains and can't come up with an answer. When she was small I could get her to clean up after herself. As she got older it changed. When I spoke to people about it the said it could be because she is so intelligent and her mind is always working so she lets her surroundings mimic here internal turmoil. I don't know if that makes any sense but it did at the time. She says she wants to change her messy behaviors but I don't know if she can. She says DBT is about being able to change behaviors and she wants to try but needs me to help.

[qcarolr]

What drives the desire of not keeping a messy apartment? Is there a background to this anxiety?

I wish I could find that out. She says it causes her a lot of anxiety but that anxiety seems to be outdone by something else. Any clues as to how to find out why?  I have racked my brains and can't come up with an answer. When she was small I could get her to clean up after herself. As she got older it changed. When I spoke to people about it the said it could be because she is so intelligent and her mind is always working so she lets her surroundings mimic here internal turmoil. I don't know if that makes any sense but it did at the time. She says she wants to change her messy behaviors but I don't know if she can. She says DBT is about being able to change behaviors and she wants to try but needs me to help.

It is so awesome that she is putting the DBT into practice. Finding ways to be successful in organizing her living space might be a very safe place to begin. Stuff cannot have hurt feelings or talk back. My take is that her asking for you to help her learn these skills is a big step forward. She feels loved and accepted by you, and can trust you.  Try to take this in baby steps with few expectations.

A quote comes to mind in reading this thread.

"UNIVERSAL NEED:

  I AM OF WORTH

  MY FEELINGS MATTER

  SOMEONE REALLY CARES ABOUT ME"

From "I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better", Gary and Joy Lundberg

Anytime I can express my love for my DD29 that fulfills this need, things get better between us. Even though she still makes choices that used to put a wall between us, I can accept that she is doing the best that she can. To get to this place has taken a huge amount of self-care, building a support network around me and then calling on them for support, rediscovery of my faith that allows me to truly live unconditional love for my DD at the same time that I am committed to the boundaries that keep this relationship safe for me.

You get a big  from me for accepting the challenge of working with your DD on learning organization skills while building the trust between you. This can be a chance to help her feel safe and in control of this part of her environment, and then let go of some of the anxiety.

qcr

[Nana49]

What drives the desire of not keeping a messy apartment? Is there a background to this anxiety?

I wish I could find that out. She says it causes her a lot of anxiety but that anxiety seems to be outdone by something else. Any clues as to how to find out why?  I have racked my brains and can't come up with an answer. When she was small I could get her to clean up after herself. As she got older it changed. When I spoke to people about it the said it could be because she is so intelligent and her mind is always working so she lets her surroundings mimic here internal turmoil. I don't know if that makes any sense but it did at the time. She says she wants to change her messy behaviors but I don't know if she can. She says DBT is about being able to change behaviors and she wants to try but needs me to help.

It is so awesome that she is putting the DBT into practice. Finding ways to be successful in organizing her living space might be a very safe place to begin. Stuff cannot have hurt feelings or talk back. My take is that her asking for you to help her learn these skills is a big step forward. She feels loved and accepted by you, and can trust you.  Try to take this in baby steps with few expectations.

A quote comes to mind in reading this thread.

"UNIVERSAL NEED:

  I AM OF WORTH

  MY FEELINGS MATTER

  SOMEONE REALLY CARES ABOUT ME"

From "I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better", Gary and Joy Lundberg

Anytime I can express my love for my DD29 that fulfills this need, things get better between us. Even though she still makes choices that used to put a wall between us, I can accept that she is doing the best that she can. To get to this place has taken a huge amount of self-care, building a support network around me and then calling on them for support, rediscovery of my faith that allows me to truly live unconditional love for my DD at the same time that I am committed to the boundaries that keep this relationship safe for me.

You get a big  from me for accepting the challenge of working with your DD on learning organization skills while building the trust between you. This can be a chance to help her feel safe and in control of this part of her environment, and then let go of some of the anxiety.

qcr

I returned a few days ago and am happy to say things went very well. There were only a couple of rocky spots when she said I made her feel bad with somethings I said. We were able to discuss them and I told her I was working to say things in a more understanding and validating way and did not mean to make her feel bad but it is a process for me too.

We worked together as much as possible whenever she was no in class. She kept her resolve that she wanted me to teach her and not just do it. I worked on laundry and other things to get ready to organize while she was gone but left all organizing for us to work on together.

Her apartment was really bad when I arrived. When I left it was organized and clean. She really seemed to appreciate my help and seemed really happy about how everything looked. We bought a few things to help with organization but most of the things we needed she already had. We just had to repurpose them and put them in better locations so she could fully use them.

We have talked several times since I left and she had shown me her apartment via FaceTime. It looks like she is keeping her part of our agreement by making sure everything is put back where it belongs. We labeled where everything goes in her drawers, cabinets, and desk so that everything has a place. She loves labels! She enjoys being able to sit on her floor and play with her dog without all the junk and "floordrobe". She is making her bed every morning and vacuuming her floor in the evenings. That way she has to be sure there is nothing thrown on the floor.

We agreed, and I re-enforced multiple times, that I would be checking to be sure that her apartment stays clean and be there to support here efforts to stay organized as the semester progresses. She will be taking me on video tours so she can show me she is keeping up with here end of our agreement. At this point she sees to like the idea of being accountable for her environment. Hopefully it will stay like that, at least for most of the time.

Thank you for your post. I really helped.

I am realistic in that I know there may be times she may stumble a bit but as long as the system is in place she will have the foundation to get it back in place. If she can keep it all together it will be a big boost to her confidence.

I am really glad I went. It gave us the chance to be together away from everyone and opened the lines of communication between us. I hope we can work together to keep the lines open. At least she knows I love her and will do what I can to support her efforts.

[lbjnltx]

This is just an awesome outcome.  I can see how this was an important event in strengthening your relationship with your granddaughter and her proving to herself that she can do it and it's ok to ask for help.



lbj

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Nana49]

Well a new twist. She is not attending classes and wants to come home. (One positive is that she has FaceTimed me each week and she has kept her apartment clean and organized.)  She says she is going to get a job and go to a college in our area in fall. I told her that she will be expected to participate at home and will have responsibilities she will have to do. My H and I are not willing to have her sleep all day and stay in her room. I realize that I have enabled her in many ways and have resolved that I have to stop for her well being as well as my own. I know a lot of this is because of my fear that she will attempt suicide again. I realize that she uses my fears of this to manipulate me. Now I have to step back, not enable her, and let her face the consequences of her actions. I will be re-reading the lessons available on this site to help me stay strong.

Thank you to all who have offered their support to me.

[Turkish]

This sounds hopeful  

She was able to regulate her disorganization with support (not enabling) from you.

I found a while back that stepping in too much to rescue my BPD (and some other things) mother that I likely triggered her shame. I could fix all thats wrong in her life rather easily, but then that's not my job. Letting her do for herself what she should be doing motivated her to feel better about herself.

[Nana49]

Thank you. It is really hard but I know I have to step back and let her take control of what she does next.