To what extent do they realise how badly they've behaved?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

About 5 months out now from round two with exBPDgf. (fiance)

I've reached a fair level of acceptance - I guess I've read and traced too much back to her to be able to be swayed against the idea that she has BPD and was abusive to me.

She came back a few months after the first (absolutely awful) discard - she was in a drug addicted mess and my only intention was to help get her shipped off to rehab in another country but she sucked me back in somehow.  A couple of months later I was discarded again (5 months ago) but this time I guess I realised I wanted it over too.  Pretty certain she's gone for good this time.

It's the way in which she did it though - the cold, non-communicative distancing leading up to the discards, the complete retreat - hasn't blocked me on anything but wouldn't ever answer an email or text from me after (I'm no contact 4 months).

After all I did for that girl; never got a thanks or an apology - I know this is the mental illness part.  I wasn't perfect and I'm not a precious person who needs acknowledgement for every good deed, but I really put my neck on the line and supported her with utter kindness.

I just feel like she KNOWS her behavior is awful and deregulated and while she could never say it, she alluded to it at times with statements like:

- "I can't care for other people"

- "I can't give you what you want"

- "I'm just a b___, that's just me"

- "I was on good behavior for the first 9 months"

-"I don't recall things with any emotion" (but how's this: when she was charming, she sent a photo of where we would have got married and always had hung out)

- "I'm just going to keep hurting you"

- "I push people away"

- "I'll never fall madly in love with someone, it'll never happen" (upon her struggling to charm me whilst telling me I was her soulmate and would love me forever - she later stated she only professed all her soul mate love because she was simply coming off drugs)

- "all my past boyfriends have gone crazy" (although she added "I never did anything"

- "I know I treated you poorly"

If she has this insight into her own behavior, why can't she join the dots and say "I'm sorry" and "thank you"?  Is it because I told her after that I think she has a PD?  Is the shame too much?  Ahh I know what you all will say: it's a mental disorder, there is no sustained insight on their behalf, they don't think with normal logic... .

I so know I'm better off without that girl and have met a wonderful new girl who is kind and compassionate and I'm looking cautiously forward to see where it goes.  I was even healthy and honest enough to tell the new girl about my BPDex.  It just seems that some wonderful memories I had with the ex are all now tainted and painful because she didn't have the heart to end things without making me feel defective somehow... .

Thoughts?

[Stu84]

About 5 months out now from round two with exBPDgf. (fiance)

I've reached a fair level of acceptance - I guess I've read and traced too much back to her to be able to be swayed against the idea that she has BPD and was abusive to me.

She came back a few months after the first (absolutely awful) discard - she was in a drug addicted mess and my only intention was to help get her shipped off to rehab in another country but she sucked me back in somehow.  A couple of months later I was discarded again (5 months ago) but this time I guess I realised I wanted it over too.  Pretty certain she's gone for good this time.

It's the way in which she did it though - the cold, non-communicative distancing leading up to the discards, the complete retreat - hasn't blocked me on anything but wouldn't ever answer an email or text from me after (I'm no contact 4 months).

After all I did for that girl; never got a thanks or an apology - I know this is the mental illness part.  I wasn't perfect and I'm not a precious person who needs acknowledgement for every good deed, but I really put my neck on the line and supported her with utter kindness.

I just feel like she KNOWS her behavior is awful and deregulated and while she could never say it, she alluded to it at times with statements like:

- "I can't care for other people"

- "I can't give you what you want"

- "I'm just a b___, that's just me"

- "I was on good behavior for the first 9 months"

-"I don't recall things with any emotion" (but how's this: when she was charming, she sent a photo of where we would have got married and always had hung out)

- "I'm just going to keep hurting you"

- "I push people away"

- "I'll never fall madly in love with someone, it'll never happen" (upon her struggling to charm me whilst telling me I was her soulmate and would love me forever - she later stated she only professed all her soul mate love because she was simply coming off drugs)

- "all my past boyfriends have gone crazy" (although she added "I never did anything"

- "I know I treated you poorly"

If she has this insight into her own behavior, why can't she join the dots and say "I'm sorry" and "thank you"?  Is it because I told her after that I think she has a PD?  Is the shame too much?  Ahh I know what you all will say: it's a mental disorder, there is no sustained insight on their behalf, they don't think with normal logic... .

I so know I'm better off without that girl and have met a wonderful new girl who is kind and compassionate and I'm looking cautiously forward to see where it goes.  I was even healthy and honest enough to tell the new girl about my BPDex.  It just seems that some wonderful memories I had with the ex are all now tainted and painful because she didn't have the heart to end things without making me feel defective somehow... .

Thoughts?

[blissful_camper]

I know this may be easier said than done: Refuse to internalize what she's wanting you to feel. You did your best in a difficult relationship. Feel good about giving it a go, and accept the meaningful moments as genuine.  I'm sure she has moments of clarity where she realizes her actions are hurtful to others. However, she hasn't the coping skills to help her grow and learn from her experiences. It's not about you. As hard as it may be, turn your focus toward yourself and away from her. Give yourself a break , time to heal, and do whatever you can to restore your sense of balance and well being. Hang in there, friend. 

[Stu84]

Blissful camper, what a wonderful reply.  Thank you.

[C.Stein]

I so know I'm better off without that girl and have met a wonderful new girl who is kind and compassionate and I'm looking cautiously forward to see where it goes.  I was even healthy and honest enough to tell the new girl about my BPDex.  It just seems that some wonderful memories I had with the ex are all now tainted and painful because she didn't have the heart to end things without making me feel defective somehow... .

I do understand the tainting of good memories.  It is sad and heartbreaking to say the least.  As you move forward with this new woman be cautious about bringing your ex along with you (mind and heart).  As long as you continue to hold onto these feelings about your ex you will not be able to truly move forward with anyone.  It is good to be cautious but also be equally as cautious about turning this new woman into a sounding board for your lingering pain from the ex.

[JerryRG]

My ex sends me a text saying she's ready to forgive me? Lol this pretty much sums it up huh? I'm working with my sponsor on my amends to her which is strictly the things I've done to harm her, we clean up our side of the street and forgive them. I am happy I'm not her... .perpetual vicrtim.

[once removed]

hey stu84  

i remember the sudden coldness and distancing. when i realized it was happening i really lost my cool, left lots of voicemails. its extremely anxiety inducing. im sorry that happened. i know what you mean about not needing acknowledgment for every good deed, but you dont expect to get dumped on your head as a result, either. its not easy to work past that resentment.

Ahh I know what you all will say: it's a mental disorder, there is no sustained insight on their behalf, they don't think with normal logic... .

on the contrary stu84, her words definitely indicate sustained insight. we often say "watch the actions, not the words" (i like "actions > words" but i think someone repeatedly telling us who they are is an action to pay attention to.

- "I can't care for other people"

- "I can't give you what you want"

- "I'm just a b___, that's just me"

- "I was on good behavior for the first 9 months"

-"I don't recall things with any emotion" (but how's this: when she was charming, she sent a photo of where we would have got married and always had hung out)

- "I'm just going to keep hurting you"



- "I push people away"

- "I'll never fall madly in love with someone, it'll never happen" (upon her struggling to charm me whilst telling me I was her soulmate and would love me forever - she later stated she only professed all her soul mate love because she was simply coming off drugs)

- "all my past boyfriends have gone crazy" (although she added "I never did anything"

- "I know I treated you poorly"

If she has this insight into her own behavior, why can't she join the dots and say "I'm sorry" and "thank you"?

theres not a lot in her words that indicate she would offer apology or thanks. theres everything in her words that indicate she couldnt or wouldnt. its the old axiom "when someone tells you who they are, believe them". all the words i bolded and a few others you listed are strong indicators of emotional unavailability. often we confuse ourselves here; we hear the words, but for whatever reason we choose not to believe them. sometimes efforts to the contrary are made, so we dismiss the warnings. its confusing, i know; my ex would tell me i deserved better and id think something along the lines of "so be better!". when someone tells us who they are (their limits) and we expect more, we are setting both ourselves and our partners up for frustration, heartbreak, disappointment, resentment, and usually failure.

mental illness in this case is really an aside. we all experience periods of emotional unavailability - being in the midst of grief is one example.

I so know I'm better off without that girl and have met a wonderful new girl who is kind and compassionate and I'm looking cautiously forward to see where it goes.  I was even healthy and honest enough to tell the new girl about my BPDex.  It just seems that some wonderful memories I had with the ex are all now tainted and painful because she didn't have the heart to end things without making me feel defective somehow... .

would you say youre in a place of emotional availability?

[Nuitari]

Stu84,

I have heard some of those exact same quotes. What always baffled me was her contradictory statements.  She could go from "I'm not capable of loving anyone" to "I love you so much" in the blink of an eye. I remember wondering at times if she were intentionally playing with me, but now that I know her better, I see now that she was never lying to me when she said those things. She is just a deeply troubled and confused individual who has no idea what she wants out of life.  

She caused so much damage to my life and, like you, I wonder how aware she is of her culpability.  She would sometimes have these brief moments of clarity where she seemed very freaked out by her own actions, to the point where she would sob uncontrollably. During these rare episodes, she would apologize for everything she's done to me, and in these moments I can actually believe that she is genuinely remorseful for her behavior.  But these episodes never seemed to have any lasting effect.  She would always return to her usual selfish persona: emotionally unavailable and unwilling to take any responsibility for her past mistakes or learn from them.

Any remorse she has is fleeting.  I have to live knowing that she'll never feel guilt or accept any accountability for the devastating effects she's had on my life.  I like what Blissful Camper said about accepting the meaningful moments as genuine.  I am very grateful for the those few "moments of clarity" that I witnessed in her.  Its the closest thing to an apology that I'll ever get.

[JerryRG]

My ex sends me a text saying she's ready to forgive me? Lol this pretty much sums it up huh? I'm working with my sponsor on my amends to her which is strictly the things I've done to harm her, we clean up our side of the street and forgive them. I am happy I'm not her... .perpetual victim.

[MapleBob]

Stu, I've heard a lot of the same things from my uBPDex that you've heard from yours. I think they realize that they've "behaved badly", but that realization does not seem to often extend to actual accountability. Accountability is the key issue here for you, I'd assume. True accountability involves at least an attempt at restitution ("making whole", apology, and behavioral change to ensure that their best efforts are being made to prevent these offenses in the future.

And I agree with Nuitari: BPD "remorse" is often fleeting, and you've probably received the most complete apology that you'll get.

[steelwork]

I sent a letter of apology to my ex. (After he dumped me!) He called and thanked me and said he could have written me a letter twice as long. But he didn't say what would be in it, and he went on to do some pretty selfish and cruel things after that.

[tryingsome]

In the same ways people get addicted to drugs

In the same ways we get addicted to pwBPD

they get addicted to their own personality.

They know it is wrong. They just can't control themselves.

It is courage for them to tell you they are messed up.

They just can't fix it   Their personality is their own drug.

They know they can't fix it. Hence the shame.

[hashtag_loyal]

If she has this insight into her own behavior, why can't she join the dots and say "I'm sorry" and "thank you"?  Is it because I told her after that I think she has a PD?  Is the shame too much?  Ahh I know what you all will say: it's a mental disorder, there is no sustained insight on their behalf, they don't think with normal logic... .

Yes. It really is that simple. People who struggle with shame will do almost anything -- even further hurting someone they love -- in order to avoid facing that person and admitting personal responsibility.

Have you ever lived in shame? It's really quite horrible. Focusing on it feels like dying for the pwBPD.

It just seems that some wonderful memories I had with the ex are all now tainted and painful because she didn't have the heart to end things without making me feel defective somehow... .

I would implore you not to take anything away from the way things were, just because of the way they ended.

[hopealways]

- "My sister says I am so selfish like Scarlett in Gone With the Wind (typical Hystrionic)"

-":)o you really want to be with someone as troubled as me"

- "I can't give you what you want"

- "I'm just a ___ and a ___, that's just me"

- "I'm just going to keep hurting you"

- "I push people away"

- "I know I treated you unfairly"

-"You deserve someone who is more stable than me"

-"I can't make you happy"

It was good to make this list for 2 reasons:

1. My list is eerily similar to others here

2. Made me realize how troubled she really is.