NC 50+ days and It is getting more difficult...not easier

[Allranuthin]

Hello all,

My UBPD ex blew up, raged, professed her hatred of me and left on Jan 29th.  In early January she wanted to marry me.  We had been together since 2009.  Rocky and chaotic yet wonderful and amazing. since the day she abruptly left, NC other than a past tense email Feb. 6th saying all she ever wanted was to love and be loved by me and it's over. In the past she frequently left but usually not longer than a day or two... .usually a few hours.  She would come back, in a state of clarity and profess her love and guilt for losing control.  This time, however She ran back to and is living with her ex until she can get a place of her own (I am sure there is no romantic involvement there).   

Her dad and I are still cordial and have dealt with moving possessions and things to maintain no contact because she doesn't want to see me.  Last week he said that every time she comes around she is "a mess" and breaks down because she is so upset about things.  He said she cries that she still loves me.  He assured me she is seeing a counselor a couple times a week.  I hope it is true, because that is a huge step.  She is aware and readily admits that she is "not ok" and gets very ashamed of her behavior.  She is D with CPTSD and suffers greatly--her symptoms mirror everything on this site except self harm, hence I believe her to suffer with BPD also or at least the exhibition of the majority of complications of such.

So, while the house is much calmer, I am missing her terribly and it has seemed to get worse lately.  I think that it is due in part to what I have learned here about not JADE ing and how BPDs need validation.  I have deep regrets that I was making her worse without any intention.  I truly love her and she truly loves me but I brought it to this because of my ignorance.  I didn't find the bpdfamily until after she left and throughout her triggers over these years, validation and not JADE ing were very difficult for me as her reality (what her feeling were at the moment) was so illogical and foreign to MY reality.  I am deeply saddened because if I would have known and exercised these skills, I could have helped her feel safe and it would have never gotten to her splitting and me being painted black.   She has painted me very very very black to her friends and most of her family and she gets validation and support that leaving me was the best thing she has done.

Today, driven by sadness and regret, I broke the. NC and emailed her.  I most assuredly used a lot of validation and no judgment etc.   in sum, my email to her began with saying that I wasn't  sure if reaching out was the right thing to do, but not reaching out hasn't felt right either.  I let her know I understand that she got to a point that she didn't know what to do and I said I am sorry for my part in getting us to here (since her big thing right now is it is all my fault).  I told her that I still care about her and carry no bad feelings in my heart.   I said While she may feel differently, I said what happened is no ones fault and neither one of us ever wanted this to happen (something she said in the email on feb 6th) and that we were just two humans with flaws, loving with fragile hearts, deeply and intensely to the point we fell off of our path.  I ended with, above all else, I wish no harm and when she is ready to reach out to me... .it will be ok to do so.

She replied by email rather quickly, within a half hour.  She thanked me for the thoughts and kind words and said she appreciated it.  However, she is not ready to talk or see me, because she is still in a lot of pain and trying to move on with her life without us.  She closed with, I hope you understand.   

While it wasn't the response I was hoping for, I knew well it could have been much worse.  I replied by email shortly there after and thanked her for her reply and said it meant a lot to me.  I assured her I understand and again, when, and if, she is ready to reach out I am here.  I closed by wishing her peace and belief in the goodness in the world.

Tonight I am very sad.  Like I said, last week her dad (the only person in her life who doesn't hate me and the person she is closest too) told me that when he sees her,  she cries a lot and says she still loves me, yet is still angry and blaming me.  Her dad knows a little about her rageful behavior even though she assumes little if any responsibility out loud.  She is fully aware of her mental health issues, her inability to regulate and manage emotions, and that she "needs help" No one else knows the depth of her symptoms and she NEEDs to keep it that way because of her role in the family and high profile professional job.  I am guessing That is why she has painted me so black. Everyone saw only the amazing ness of our relationship because no one knows how deeply she suffers.  This situation has been so ugly and out of control that she had to JUSTIFY her behavior by blaming me for being abusive, controlling, and stifling her identity and freedom.  She had to come up with a believable reason for just exploding and blowing up our life, relationship and home of many years... .especially after spending the holidays discussing marrying me.

So, at this point I am seeking support, advice, insight... .I want another chance at this relationship with my new understanding of what it was she needed from me all along, but I didn't know how to give it.  From your experiences, do I stand a chance?  I understand that her response to the email today of "moving on with her life without us" was her immediate emotion she felt by seeing an email from me as the first contact in just under two months.  Does it seem hopeless to think that she will contact me and we will ever get past this? I am sure she has read and reread the email several times since.  I have watched similar behavior over the years.  What would you do, say hope for from your informed pw BPD points of view?  Feeling lonely and remorseful. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[once removed]

hey allranuthin 

i doubt the fact that you didnt have all the tools for navigating this relationship made or broke it. the tools in and of themselves are not a guarantee, and they do not prevent the disorder from being triggered. they are great skills for going forward, but please do not blame yourself for everything, a relationship takes two.

she responded, and quickly. she clarified that she isnt ready to speak. the ball is in her court. i understand the urge to act, but its really not a bad place to be. she needs time to address these issues. shes taking it. she tells her father she still has feelings for you. can you elaborate on the exchange? "moving on with her life without us" could mean a lot of things depending on the context.

[Allranuthin]

Thanks, Once Removed,

My ex's dad is one of the few ally's of the relationship that she is currently in contact with.  He and my ex are extremely close as he is often referred to by her as "the only person she can trust". In all her childhood trauma he was her hero... .but he travelled a lot and couldn't always save her.  While he doesn't understand mental illness, he has always advised her that she really needs to get her emotions under control.  He is an ally because he can see my true intentions and that I love her unconditionally... .something lacking in her FOO.  He readily says that I am the "best thing that ever happened in her life". I look out for her and always am strong and have helped her with boundaries.  He has always wanted her to have boundaries with her mother, her sister and several others in the family who are really dysfunctional and guilt and shame her into going against her own needs and well being.  He tells her outright to "stay away from them-they are no good for you". I saw this too and helped her to say "no" to their unreasonable demands and because of guilt and shame they imposed upon her---she began to blame me for "hating" them and ruining her relationship with her family.   They of course always blamed me for controlling her because during our relationship she became stronger and did not succumb to the dysfunction. The goal, which we both shared most of the time, was healthy boundaries, distance in engagement (this family is pathologically enmeshed)  Much of the time she thanked me for being her rock and supporting her through what she knows is the right thing to do.  Her counselor who diagnosed her CPTSD said it was due to her relationship with her mother.   She climbed out of the crab bucket so to speak and they spent all their time clawing and trying to pull her back in.  She had great difficulty due to black and white distortion... ."if I don't do everything they ask me to... .I must hate them and they won't love me".   So now that I am out of the picture, she is back in the bucket and they are constantly validating her decision because they "have the old "her name" back".   

Since this happened, her dad told me I can call him anytime... .but he is the only one in the family who is rational and he is in the middle of his wife and the rest of the family seeing me black.  I believe his wife is UBPD also--which explains some of my ex's childhood trauma.

He has simply relayed that when she comes around she is an emotional wreck... .hurting, crying, but still blaming me.  "How could have done [her] so wrong". He said he tries to reason with her but she shuts him down and says "you don't understand".   I just can't collapse on the possibility that she could have done and said and felt everything I know to be true... .spending almost every day together for almost eight years... .and then snap and feel nothing, erase me, delete me, block me and move on and never look back.  This just seems so impossible and cruel beyond comprehension.   Yet when I reached out yesterday, she responded that SHE is in a lot of pain? 

[MapleBob]

No Contact is super super super hard, especially when you've been learning and have ideas and plans and want to start working things out. I really think that your best bet right now is to be scarce, stay in touch with the Dad until he assures you that things are over between you and her, and keep posting/learning/detaching.

I'm at 10 weeks (70-something days) - sometimes I feel very detached, and sometimes I feel just awful with missing her and wondering if I'll ever hear from her again. That's just par for the course.

[Allranuthin]

Thanks Maple Bob,

This communication truly helps to sooth the soul. 

I have witnessed how she works through things for many years.  By her side as emotions fluctuate and her reality changes.  I am sure she loves me.  She professed so daily when she was in her lucid states.  Her primary dysfunction is emotional dysregulation and I my just keep thinking that part of her not wanting to communicate with me is she won't be able to control the loving emotions she will feel that perhaps this is the biggest mistake she has made to date. When she exploded and left she assured me I would NEVER have her in my life again.  I cannot believe any statement she makes in rage, but she let it be known to everyone, and I know she will fight how she feels to save face.   If she saw me she would have to face what she has done and she would feel MORE guilt.  As I sit here, I recall our Saturdays... .usually an adventure somewhere, a new experience.  She is out there somewhere and I really have no idea where her heart is at this point.  Prior to all this we had been planning for her to move out to an apartment for six months to get some help and find herself... .she threw those plans to the wind and blew up when her ex said she could stay at her place.  The ex is anti-ME.  It's painful.

Are you hoping to reconnect with your ex?  Has there been anything promising in the 50 days or are you in total limbo too?

[MapleBob]

Are you hoping to reconnect with your ex?  Has there been anything promising in the 50 days or are you in total limbo too?

I would like to reconnect with her, but I have my doubts about her ability to have a healthy relationship currently. We broke up over a year ago, did two months or so NC, tried to be friends/work things out for ten months, then she couldn't handle it anymore and opted for more NC. Haven't heard from her since early January. The ball is in her court, but I doubt she's going to play. But I also have an intuition that I'll hear from her again? It's her choice at this point; I won't make the mistake of reaching out again. It always winds up with her sabotaging things and pushing me away. If she wants me in her life again she'll have to come to me. That was made clear ten weeks ago, and it may or may not happen. I have a birthday in a couple of weeks and maybe I'll hear from her. Maybe I won't. Either way she's sending a message, because I know she'll remember the date.

[once removed]

I saw this too and helped her to say "no" to their unreasonable demands and because of guilt and shame they imposed upon her---she began to blame me for "hating" them and ruining her relationship with her family.   

validation, and dealing with shame and abandonment are not easy territory to navigate. sometimes what we feel is encouragement and support can be invalidating, or trigger abandonment fears; even something as seemingly benign as the phrase "you can do it!". dads in tricky territory too when he tries to reason with her and she tells him he doesnt understand.

I just can't collapse on the possibility that she could have done and said and felt everything I know to be true... .spending almost every day together for almost eight years... .and then snap and feel nothing, erase me, delete me, block me and move on and never look back.  This just seems so impossible and cruel beyond comprehension.   Yet when I reached out yesterday, she responded that SHE is in a lot of pain? 

not to suggest that your relationship was not unique, but this is a story many of us share, and it is a sad part of the reality of mental illness, and very primitive but ingrained defense mechanisms, all of which is incredibly difficult to understand, and excruciating to cope with. pwBPD "feel too much", and when youre overwhelmed, its very hard to empathize with anyone elses pain but your own.

[Allranuthin]

Once Removed,

Your statement hit me with a ton of clarity... .

pwBPD "feel too much", and when youre overwhelmed, its very hard to empathize with anyone elses pain but your own.

That IS it.  Exactly!  Her lack of empathy does not stem from a lack of concern or caring really... .she is pretty much so emotional nothing else is discernible to her.  That eases the resentment of it seeming like I don't matter, but when she is in an amygdala hijack she can't possible attend to what I need.  She told me she feels more emotions, deeper than me and more intensely.  I used to find this offensive as if it implies I don't have feelings or lack emotion, just because I can manage them, but I think what you said was what she was trying to express.  If I ever get to talk to her again... .I can validate this recurring point.  Thank you for your continued insight! 

Maple Bob,

I am sorry to hear about what you're dealing with.  It must be difficult.  While she is away, is she doing anything to work on herself?  Or is it more like when you reunited YOU are still flawed in her distortion?

I am not sure, but it is rumored that my ex has actually started counseling again (went for several years prior to our relationship... .her counselor "was amazing and helped a lot" but unfortunately she moved and my ex could never find another one who "gets it" and gave up.  I must agree that many counselors don't know what to do with the devastation of pervasive childhood trauma, I went through a couple of them with her and she would leave out of sessions in such a mess that she wouldn't recover for days. 

Someone mentioned it sounds like my ex was struggling with engulfment.   She often blamed me  for things things like she was controlled, kept in a cage and I stole her identity so that makes a lot of sense.  Relationships do meld two together somewhat after years and years... .its part of the territory.   It's strange because much of the time she loved "nesting" and the security of our shared life... .how do you deal with their feelings of engulfment? 

[MapleBob]

She told me she feels more emotions, deeper than me and more intensely.  I used to find this offensive as if it implies I don't have feelings or lack emotion, just because I can manage them, but I think what you said was what she was trying to express.

Mine told me that she usually had 30 different moods a day! And yes, I was also the bad guy for being in control. I was "stoic" or "too much of a cool guy" or the things that I said (and genuinely felt, and meant!) were "just words". I always had to restrain myself from saying "YES, THIS IS WHAT HEALTHY EMOTIONAL SELF-REGULATION LOOKS LIKE!"  

Maple Bob,

I am sorry to hear about what you're dealing with.  It must be difficult.  While she is away, is she doing anything to work on herself?  Or is it more like when you reunited YOU are still flawed in her distortion?

The last I heard from her she had budgeted for and committed to one year of bi-weekly therapy, and I'd find that hopeful except that she was ALSO reportedly mainly doing work about her relationship with her ex-husband (can of worms there, don't get me started!) and hadn't even mentioned me to her new therapist. She literally told me that she was obsessed with our relationship and got angry and sad about it every day, and that it was too intense for her to handle but ... .apparently didn't think that was a worthy topic to bring up with her therapist. So... .I don't know to what extent she's working on herself in a way that will encourage her to have a better relationship with me, or anyone else for that matter.

As for her view towards me: I've been painted black AND white back and forth so many times that I'm not surprised that she called a permanent(?) time-out on engaging with me. In those ten months I heard everything from "I'm still here fiercely and I want to keep you, I'm supposed to have you in my life, I just know it" to "you're perfect and I'm just too difficult to love/I'm an awful failure/I'm an a**hole" to "I don't care, it doesn't matter, I'm not interested, the fact that you're still here is disgusting, you must just not have anything better going on, oh NOW you're interested in me, etc."

I heard for months and months that she just wanted to be friends and that she felt pressured and that she was too much of a mess for any kind of intimate engagement with me, but then later I was hearing that she never actually wanted to be friends, that she wanted to be with me but can't (for whatever her "reason of the week" was), that she "didn't even really know me", and that us being in contact was basically having too much of a negative impact on her life because it triggered her. It was classic push/pull for months and months - pushing me away, getting mad and feeling hopeless when I was pushed away, and then pushing me away even more and sabotaging any peace we had built. I tried to validate, I tried to give space/time, I tried to empathize and take responsibility for probably more than my share, and I tried to build bridges only to watch them burn.

Basically where I'm at is: if she wants to build a bridge with me for a change, I'd be glad to help. If not, I'll build bridges elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if she's well and thoroughly moved on, but I also wouldn't be surprised to hear from her at pretty much any time. I've been working on this process for long enough now that I'm starting to see myself shift towards a headspace where either of those possible outcomes can be good outcomes.

She often blamed me  for things things like she was controlled, kept in a cage and I stole her identity so that makes a lot of sense.  Relationships do meld two together somewhat after years and years... .its part of the territory.   It's strange because much of the time she loved "nesting" and the security of our shared life... .how do you deal with their feelings of engulfment?  

The abandonment/engulfment spectrum is a really fine line to walk with a pwBPD. They don't react rationally to things that are high-stakes/high-emotion, and it's almost like they desperately want to find reasons to dysregulate (anyone else notice this?). So they're often the people who most crave AND fear "nesting". Oh they want safety, but they're also hyper-vigilant about perceived threats to that safety. So I guess you have to provide the safety, and be consistent, and hold your boundaries with them. It's a hard hard thing to do.

Honestly, Allranuthin, you sound like you have a good grasp of the situation, and I still think your situation is hopeful. I relate a lot to what you're going through, and I see you becoming equipped to better manage her if she does decide to reconnect with you after she gets through whatever personal hell she's going through. I think you just need to cultivate patience, and a steadying presence, which seems to be in your nature (at least judging from your writing). Keep posting, and keep asking questions!

[MapleBob]

She told me she feels more emotions, deeper than me and more intensely.  I used to find this offensive as if it implies I don't have feelings or lack emotion, just because I can manage them, but I think what you said was what she was trying to express.

Mine told me that she usually had 30 different moods a day! And yes, I was also the bad guy for being in control. I was "stoic" or "too much of a cool guy" or the things that I said (and genuinely felt, and meant!) were "just words". I always had to restrain myself from saying "YES, THIS IS WHAT HEALTHY EMOTIONAL SELF-REGULATION LOOKS LIKE!"  

I had another thought that went along with this, but it was too late to just modify my post.  

I got the sense from my uBPDex - and this might be pertinent to your situation too - that the more emotionally well-regulated I was the more she felt like she was this insane, irrational, incapable person. Of course, not being able to regulate my emotions and consequently being unable to validate hers wouldn't have helped either, so ... .it started to feel pretty damned if you do/damned if you don't. I just tried to always do what I thought was the best thing in the moment. At least I can walk away saying that.

[Allranuthin]

Hey Maple Bob,

I can relate to what you are going through too.  I would say about 30 moods a day is about par.    Wow!  I have heard the phrase "just words" time and time again! I would sit for hours listening to the same detailed stories of how awful her childhood was... .how awful her mother was (not to be cold, but after almost 8 years of almost daily reliving of her past, I would hope to be considered an informed audience) I would listen  to her WORDS! and validate and support... .but when reliving the past she would usually end up triggered.  Not knowing what was the right thing to do (I 100% related to the damned if I do or don't dilemma)  I would try to console or tell her. I loved her and she "doesn't feel loved... .they're just words".   Then. I would have to hear just how abusive and manipulative and cruel members of her family were and I wasn't even allowed to say "I really dislike that you were treated so badly or endured such pain". Because then eventually she turned it into I HATE HER WHOLE FAMILY and I WANT HER TO HATE THEM TOO!   No... .that isn't what I want or what I said... .THEN I WAS an INVALIDATOR!

But truly, after reading, engaging and learning so much here... .I really can see things in a different maybe even brighter light.  In the right mindset with the right tools, in my case, a lot of the chaos, triggers and negative or hurtful engagement could be mitigated.  Thanks for seeings for seeing the hopefulness in my situation.  I see it too sometimes.  I just have no idea where her head is right now... .I am not sure if I am blackest of black still because she replied to my email Friday thanking me for kind words and saying she appreciated them... .yet that was followed by the reminder of she and her emotions are still in control and that we will not be engaging because she is moving on without us. 

One other thing, you mentioned we share the punishment for being able to mange emotions.  Just wondering if all your good traits got blown up or distorted?  All he reasons that drew her to me were eventually twisted up and used against me... .confidence became selfish arrogance; self respect and solid boundaries became judgmental and self righteousness; problem solving, protectiveness became control... .name it... .I rationalized that she hated that she couldn't possess these qualities on any consistent basis so when out of control wanted to destroy them in Me?  Oh yeah and intellectual turned into too much in my head, opposite of emotional so we can't ever "dance to the same music"

It's rough... .with no way to rationalize, predict, prepare or compromise... .just wait and see... .

[MapleBob]

One other thing, you mentioned we share the punishment for being able to mange emotions.  Just wondering if all your good traits got blown up or distorted?  All he reasons that drew her to me were eventually twisted up and used against me... .confidence became selfish arrogance; self respect and solid boundaries became judgmental and self righteousness; problem solving, protectiveness became control... .name it... .I rationalized that she hated that she couldn't possess these qualities on any consistent basis so when out of control wanted to destroy them in Me?  Oh yeah and intellectual turned into too much in my head, opposite of emotional so we can't ever "dance to the same music"

YES x 1000! "You're so smart" became "you're smarter than me (and condescending too!)", "you're the anchor I need" became "it's all just words and I fee like I'll have to drag you into everything", "you're apologetic without beating yourself up about your mistakes" became "I'm the messy one and that sucks", "cool guy"/"too aloof", "we're too different" was also "I don't want someone who is as emotionally activated as me, that would be a disaster!" ... .Even worse, she would cycle back and forth between my strengths being strengths and my strengths actually being weaknesses!

The really hard part about being with her was that she would just be silent about things that were bothering her, or she would act out in very subtle, sideways ways that were confusing. Did yours do that? To hear her tell it, we were all good for about 3-4 months (out of 14!), but I had no clue that I was doing anything wrong until at least ten months in, when it was apparently too late! Very frustrating. I'm not the only one who she splits black/white either: I think she has a love/hate relationship with pretty much everyone in her life - I just happened to be in a position to be discarded when I was painted black (as opposed to her parents, or long-time friends, or her ex-husband/daughter's father).

It's funny, because I think you and I are both pretty capable of handling a person with BPD, and might be exactly the rational, validating, steady type that they need. You know, if they wanted to change. 

[MapleBob]

And anything nice that I said about someone else was some how a slight against her... .

[Allranuthin]

I agree Maple Bob,

Seems like we are capable of handling someone with BPD.  I have been fascinated with human behavior all my life... .I guess I called this into my existence!  In a way the unpredictability and absurdity is a spice to life.   However, it is quite a challenge to not take it personally, especially when they figure out how to break you down.

You mentioned your BPD being silent about things that bothered her.  Yes, been there too.  An even more mind boggling frequent occurrence went something like this:  We'd be at a furniture store, for example, shopping for a coffee table... .I would purposefully wait for her to be drawn to any one in particular... .when she found something she liked, I usually loved it too because our tastes are pretty much aligned in many aspects.  So, decision time... .she'd ask "do you like this one?  I LOVE it". "Yes, I like it a lot". "Are you sure". "Yes, I am sure, it's perfect, are you sure?". Her "yes this is the perfect coffee table for the den!" So then, sold and delivered... .some time later the event would resurface... .her, "it always has to be your way or the highway!  Nothing I want matters, you don't ever consider my wants needs or feelings... ."  Me, dumbfounded--because I collapse on letting her have her way in any decision that isn't paramount and I truly am fine with not sweating small stuff, I invalidatingly say "you know that isn't true" she replies with "remember the day we got the coffee table"... ."yes". "Well, I hate the coffee table!  I only agreed because YOU wanted it and I know things always go your way!"  HOW IS THIS NOT FASCINATING?  How do they come up with these scenarios?  The projection and distortion is so obvious yet she is oblivious in her current state!  Wonder if anyone else shares in this type of situation?

M.B. You also asked:  "They don't react rationally to things that are high-stakes/high-emotion, and it's almost like they desperately want to find reasons to dysregulate (anyone else notice this?)". 

Absolutely, and I could feel the energy signals that it was going to happen.  It was in her eyes.  Begin a day and nothing is wrong or has happened to be upset about, but I could sense it was coming.  So I would do the best I could by engaging, but I would know I was in a lose lose situation--the button pushing would begin... .I was aware... .would disengage or whatever and when it wasn't working... .when I wouldn't participate... .she would simply take the most benign comment, gesture or FACIAL EXPRESSION and blow it totally out of proportion or recognition... .so any plans we had for. THAT day were ruined or thwarted because she would have to flee for hours because I had treated her so badly.

All these things I was going through, I never imagined others could relate.  I couldn't talk about these issues with my friends or family because they just couldn't comprehend any of this... .when I even approached discussing some of the things I was going through there response was "run!"  Also, I respected my partner too much and had too much compassion to share these intimate emotional disturbances with anyone who would look at her without due understanding or compassion.  So mostly, I dealt with it all in silence.   

[Grey Kitty]

She replied by email rather quickly, within a half hour.  She thanked me for the thoughts and kind words and said she appreciated it.  However, she is not ready to talk or see me, because she is still in a lot of pain and trying to move on with her life without us.  She closed with, I hope you understand.   

While it wasn't the response I was hoping for, I knew well it could have been much worse.  I replied by email shortly there after and thanked her for her reply and said it meant a lot to me.  I assured her I understand and again, when, and if, she is ready to reach out I am here.  I closed by wishing her peace and belief in the goodness in the world.

There is no way to know what she will do in the future--she is doing things a bit differently than she has before.

I think what she's doing is actually better, cleaner, and more emotionally mature than her past versions. No, that isn't a hard hurdle to clear. "Not yet" requires some tolerance for ambiguity, which the normal responses "I'm moving back in right now!" or "You are evil and I never want to see you again!" wouldn't allow any of.

Working against this is the challenges of living (even non-romantically) with her ex. Getting out of that situation will give her more emotional space to process her own feelings, including those about you.

I wish I could give you more advice besides being patient to see if she will be ready to try things again with you.

Well the other advice is to spend some real time with the Lessons here, practicing the skills you will need if she ever moves back. You can practice them with other people in your life, people you work with, or anybody you encounter. They aren't as critical, and if you are less than perfect at them you will get less obvious feedback that things are going WRONG... .but many of them help with everybody.

Nobody likes invalidation. JADEing doesn't help you, whether with your boss, or your romantic partner. Practice just shutting up instead of doing it or saying invalidating things with everybody.

Good boundaries will serve you well everywhere. Most people won't try to bust past your boundaries as much as a pwBPD, but being aware and prepared to (appropriately) defend them is great practice. You can read my favorite essay on boundaries. It is LONG, and covers the subject from basics to subtle points.

www.alturtle.com/archives/173

Validating people, and especially validating their feelings also works great with anybody and everybody.

[MapleBob]

HOW IS THIS NOT FASCINATING?  How do they come up with these scenarios?  The projection and distortion is so obvious yet she is oblivious in her current state!  Wonder if anyone else shares in this type of situation?

It is fascinating, but it's also heartbreaking to be on the receiving end of, like you said. I remember one conversation with her about haircuts and hair and hairstyles (a pretty banal topic, nothing heavy, just chit-chat), and I said something like "you know what's the best hair? Asian hair, that really black perfect you-can-see-every-strand hair, you know?"

Then, like, two months later I apparently "really just want a girl with Asian hair, you must not like my hair... ."  

Similar stories with petite women and younger women and women who didn't have tattoos. I don't care about any of that, seriously! But in her mind I did (and cared enough about those things to potentially leave her), simply because I mentioned them in a conversation at some point (?).

M.B. You also asked:  "They don't react rationally to things that are high-stakes/high-emotion, and it's almost like they desperately want to find reasons to dysregulate (anyone else notice this?)".  

Absolutely, and I could feel the energy signals that it was going to happen.  It was in her eyes.

Mine had kind of a pursed-lips/tight cheeks thing that she'd do when something was irking her, or when she was just generally irritable. I didn't really notice it at first, but we also didn't have that day-to-day kind of intimacy because we were semi-long distance.

All these things I was going through, I never imagined others could relate.  I couldn't talk about these issues with my friends or family because they just couldn't comprehend any of this... .when I even approached discussing some of the things I was going through there response was "run!"  Also, I respected my partner too much and had too much compassion to share these intimate emotional disturbances with anyone who would look at her without due understanding or compassion.  So mostly, I dealt with it all in silence.  

Support is crucial, and people are taught not to seek it out, and to keep secrets, and to appear perfect. Not all breakups go down like a breakup with a pwBPD, believe it or not. Most of them at least make some sense!

[Allranuthin]

Hello Grey Kitty,

I agree that this situation may allow for true change.  Leaving for a day or two and coming back never really changed anything.  Her response to my email saying "not ready to see or talk to me yet" did sound more promising than "don't ever contact me again" or a multitude of possible heartbreaking choices of words". Still ruminating about the comment about "going on with [her] life without US".

Yes the ex being in the picture right now severely convolutes any healthy progress... .I am sure she is constantly validating that my ex made the best decision and I am awful, however, I would guess that it won't take long for the ex to overstep her place in all this.   It might even work out in my favor.  My ex has obviously run to her for protection... .validation... .the ex is familiar and already knows my ex's issues and the big secret of her emotional dysregulation. Her ex is anything but mentally sound herself-my ex used to say her relationship with her ex was easier because she was so messed up too.  So my ex ran to her telling her about all my awful transgressions... .but if the history of behavior repeats... .she will begin to feel guilt about what she has done... .and when the ex disrespects me when she is in that state... .she will paint her black and I will be white again.  Again, all this is an attempt to predict the unpredictable and rationalize the irrational circumstances.

Yes, I need to continue to study to the tools in preparation or at least for my own healing.  I have always felt I had healthy boundaries and sound relational skills before this... .But this has upturned everything I knew to be true!  I need to read more about Boundaries with pwBPDs.  It was often just easier and less painful to succumb to the madness.  Thank you for your continued support, GK.