Who feels the Shame, the Guilt, and the Anger?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

What is it that makes dysfunctional relationships attractive to me?

Is it the shame, the guilt and the anger which keeps me in, or is it also the hopelessness, anxiety and depair?

Do others feel these things? Are there any who have overcome them?

[Moselle]

What is it that makes dysfunctional relationships attractive to me?

Is it the shame, the guilt and the anger which keeps me in, or is it also the hopelessness, anxiety and depair?

Do others feel these things? Are there any who have overcome them?

[Turkish]

Guilt is "I did something wrong." Shame is more "I'm a bad person."

What do you feel ashamed about?

[Moselle]

I feel ashamed about my dysfunctional childhood.  I didnt know how much shame and anger tbere was  until I tried to describe it in a group session. I just dont remember that much, and theres alot of anger at my dad for doing nothing.  I dont remember learning anything from him. About how to treat a spouse.  How to be a dad.

I did  apparently learn how to have a dysfunctional relationship with a borderline. I am particularly angry about that

[Turkish]

I can see where you would have a lot of anger for never having been modeled a healthy r/s, and how it resulted in you choosing the woman who turned out to be the mother of your children.

Do you agree on the above definition of shame, at least in general, or do you define it differently? Is it because you feel that you should have known better?

[Moselle]

Yes I am angry about those things and I'm embarrassed that I have not modelled "healthy" to my children.

I recognise that I am not in control of what has happened. Nor am I in control of her or my childhood.

I am in control of my recovery and modelling healthy now.

The pain and the anger seems to remain. I'm not sure how to handle it. At least I feel them, because I was numb for a long time.

I so feel shame that I am still stuck in this place. Carrying the burden of knowledge.  She has discarded and moved on. Seemingly oblivious to tbe damage she has.  How do I radically accept and move on ? My children live with her!

[Moselle]

I cant fight anymore Turkish.  It seems she bas won. I dont have any resources left.

How do I fight for my children's mental health? I'm not sure what to do.

[letmeout]

Do the only thing you can, when you are with them show them love and support and kindness. Show them there is another way than what they learn from their mother.

[troisette]

Hi Moselle

Yes, I've felt them all in my time. Particularly about failing to model well for my kids.

You have an advantage Moselle, you understand your ex's problems in the here and now, not retrospectively when your kids are adults, as I did. (I should've but didn't have the awareness.) As I said in a previous post, you can watch and help them with the awareness you are gaining from group work.

I'm not sure what age your kids are but, believe me, they change year by year, they are not fixed. Mine are now in their thirties and the damage done to them by their father, an abusive, chauvinistic drunk is evident. And the damage I did by remaining in the marriage and modelling a poor role for what's okay for women. However, they change and change again,throughout teenage years, twenties and thirties.  It's my belief that it's our role to be their rock. Unchanging, leanable on, strong. And as they grow older and individuate, in the background but still in that position.

You can become the father you wish to be, setting the example you wish had been set to you. It's not too late.

Are you concerned about your children's mental health now? Or for the future?

[letmeout]

Spoken wisely Moselle, Our kids asked me to divorce their BPD NPD alcoholic father when they were young, but I didn't leave him until the kids were in their late 20's. I wish I had had the courage to do things differently for their sakes.

Now they are in their late 30's. Thankfully they are not alcoholics, but the eldest son adapted some of his dysfunctional father's behaviors. The youngest son won't have much to do with either of us, his father for being crazy, and me for not leaving and finding him a sane father to grow up around.

[Moselle]

Hi Moselle

Yes, I've felt them all in my time. Particularly about failing to model well for my kids.

You have an advantage Moselle, you understand your ex's problems in the here and now, not retrospectively when your kids are adults, as I did. (I should've but didn't have the awareness.) As I said in a previous post, you can watch and help them with the awareness you are gaining from group work.

I'm not sure how to use the knowledge.  My oldest two (D15 and D11)are co-opted into her version of things. They clearly play her side not to bear the brunt of her anger. And the 6 year old D6 has the sweetest strongest temperament of them all

She just love her daddy and doesnt care about or understand her nonense. I fear I have lost the older two or at least have diminished influence, but D6 I can help.

[Moselle]

Spoken wisely Moselle, Our kids asked me to divorce their BPD NPD alcoholic father when they were young, but I didn't leave him until the kids were in their late 20's. I wish I had had the courage to do things differently for their sakes.

The youngest son won't have much to do with either of us, his father for being crazy, and me for not leaving and finding him a sane father to grow up around.

Sorry to hear this letmeout. I feel the shame and anger around this stuff. I take courage though that we have done our best with a diminished tool box. There is dysfunction in all families. Some deal with it in better ways than others. Some hide it because of shame. I'm determined to make a difference for my children. They will underatand the language and manifestation of dysfunction and that is not their fault.  Not their shame to bear. But it is their choice to live healthily

[troisette]

I think you will acquire the knowledge through your therapy Moselle. You are in a stronger position by knowing about BPD, and what your children are experiencing, to be the unchanging rock in the background.

At 15, 11 and 6, your daughters will probably change. I've seen  this in my stepchildren, who are in their 40s and 50s - they were young teenagers when I became their stepmother, and in my own children, they are in their 30s.

Environment is an influence and you choose what sort of environment you give them. Awareness is a great advantage. I know you are stepping out as co-parent, and that's not easy when your former friend is living with your ex. But I think you'll find that group therapy helps, I did. It's quite different from one-to-one, and a lot harder... .

One other thing: you might like to check out a site - Voicelessness.com - it's been recommended by another contributor to this site. I found it helpful, you might find it chimes with you regarding your comment about why we get involved with disordered people.

Good luck!