Decision NOT to release email and files I sent counselor

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, I am listening to you guys (Grey especially, thanks) and I share the same concerns.  That some of this stuff is a time bomb.

After the death thing (whatever we call her words) I reached out to put my perspective on it and ask some questions about how these type of claims will be handled.

He does not want us to email him without copying the other.  He also wants me to send the email I sent to him to my wife so we are all on same page.  I even said on the email that I would understand if that needed to happen, but to be respectful of the tender issues that were contained in the email.  

So, he tells me to send it to her, I agreed.  We get our written homework and that is not on their as something for us to do. So, I clarify with him and express alarm that we will not be able to meet for two weeks (he will not be there in a week).  I clearly said I had safety concerns about putting that information out there with so much time before an appointment.

There is back and forth has he tries to clarify safety for who (again, my wife is on all of this).  He asked for examples of what type of thing I was concerned about.  There has been shoving and my arm got pinched in a door one time, my wife called 911 to "tattle" on me but insisted she didn't want a response.  It's one of the oddest 911 calls I have ever listened to.

So, she jumps in, I respond, and then our biblical counselor responds.

Thoughts?


from my wife

FF, please speak for yourself and not me. You are lying. I called 911 bcse MY arm was pinched in the front door when u shoved me out and slammed it. D19 (much younger at the time) took a pic of the bruise on my arm from it. I am no danger to u or our children and I have never been. Please send the emails and files. We can talk thru them with Pastor "his name" at our next appt, I blve u hv scheduled an appt for us with this psychologist tonight so u r pretty safe. FF wife

from me

This is an example of why I don't believe it is a good idea to open up these wounds without a safety plan and with so much time until our next appointment.

I do see ff wifes point of view, I don't believe she is lying or in any way trying to be deceptive.  I believe that a look at the physical diagram of how the incident occurred would show how my point of view can be accurate as well as ff wife.

I am also in no way trying to be deceptive.  I have my point of view, what I saw and experienced, that is all I know.  

To this day, I have no idea how to release the pressure (free myself) without either.

1.  ff wife removing the pressure (which was not happening)

2.  My pushing the door in the direction of ff wife.

Note:  When I discussed this with authorities they sort of said "Oh, yeah, I can see that, " and the matter was dropped.  

from counselor

Folks, I am deeply saddened by all of this.

I am not your authority. You folks may do as you like in regard to any of my instructions.

The first goal of any domestic situation is the safety of people. Let me be clear. I would expect the police to be called at the hint of any violence to any family member period. Also please know that if I ever become aware of any violence or threats to the children I will immediately call CPS.

If an individual cannot control his/her anger then that individual is communicating that, “I don’t want to please Christ.”  I am a Biblical counselor for those who desire to please their Savior. For those who don’t and will resort to violence then prisons and/or mental institutions are for them. God has ordained the governments for the restrain of this kind of evil.

So, again, you folks get to make any decision you desire regarding my instructions and you folks can come up with any plan you think is necessary.

I will respond to whatever situation I have the next time we are able to meet.

[formflier]

So, I am listening to you guys (Grey especially, thanks) and I share the same concerns.  That some of this stuff is a time bomb.

After the death thing (whatever we call her words) I reached out to put my perspective on it and ask some questions about how these type of claims will be handled.

He does not want us to email him without copying the other.  He also wants me to send the email I sent to him to my wife so we are all on same page.  I even said on the email that I would understand if that needed to happen, but to be respectful of the tender issues that were contained in the email.  

So, he tells me to send it to her, I agreed.  We get our written homework and that is not on their as something for us to do. So, I clarify with him and express alarm that we will not be able to meet for two weeks (he will not be there in a week).  I clearly said I had safety concerns about putting that information out there with so much time before an appointment.

There is back and forth has he tries to clarify safety for who (again, my wife is on all of this).  He asked for examples of what type of thing I was concerned about.  There has been shoving and my arm got pinched in a door one time, my wife called 911 to "tattle" on me but insisted she didn't want a response.  It's one of the oddest 911 calls I have ever listened to.

So, she jumps in, I respond, and then our biblical counselor responds.

Thoughts?


from my wife

FF, please speak for yourself and not me. You are lying. I called 911 bcse MY arm was pinched in the front door when u shoved me out and slammed it. D19 (much younger at the time) took a pic of the bruise on my arm from it. I am no danger to u or our children and I have never been. Please send the emails and files. We can talk thru them with Pastor "his name" at our next appt, I blve u hv scheduled an appt for us with this psychologist tonight so u r pretty safe. FF wife

from me

This is an example of why I don't believe it is a good idea to open up these wounds without a safety plan and with so much time until our next appointment.

I do see ff wifes point of view, I don't believe she is lying or in any way trying to be deceptive.  I believe that a look at the physical diagram of how the incident occurred would show how my point of view can be accurate as well as ff wife.

I am also in no way trying to be deceptive.  I have my point of view, what I saw and experienced, that is all I know.  

To this day, I have no idea how to release the pressure (free myself) without either.

1.  ff wife removing the pressure (which was not happening)

2.  My pushing the door in the direction of ff wife.

Note:  When I discussed this with authorities they sort of said "Oh, yeah, I can see that, " and the matter was dropped.  

from counselor

Folks, I am deeply saddened by all of this.

I am not your authority. You folks may do as you like in regard to any of my instructions.

The first goal of any domestic situation is the safety of people. Let me be clear. I would expect the police to be called at the hint of any violence to any family member period. Also please know that if I ever become aware of any violence or threats to the children I will immediately call CPS.

If an individual cannot control his/her anger then that individual is communicating that, “I don’t want to please Christ.”  I am a Biblical counselor for those who desire to please their Savior. For those who don’t and will resort to violence then prisons and/or mental institutions are for them. God has ordained the governments for the restrain of this kind of evil.

So, again, you folks get to make any decision you desire regarding my instructions and you folks can come up with any plan you think is necessary.

I will respond to whatever situation I have the next time we are able to meet.

[Notwendy]

I have a couple of thoughts here.  I understand that the counselor does not want to take sides or participate in a triangle with the two of you. Yet, I also think that if one person tells a counselor something in private, then that can be kept private if it is information that is very unsettling. The counselor can encourage that information be shared, but can also be there to help it be shared. Exchanging e mails can be triggering and may or may not be the best way to share this information at this time.

As to his comment about the anger/violence. I think the counselor is drawing a line between what he can help with and what he can not- in his own words. He may feel he can help mentally stable people who wish to take action in a religious context.

Mental illness is not a sin. I don't know anyone, given the choice, who would choose this. A mentally ill person being paranoid, violent, lying, is possibly not a sin. It is not easy to decide what behaviors a person with BPD is responsible for. Our task is to allow them to learn from the consequences of them. ( except when serious harm is a concern). People with or without mental illness can learn behaviors. However, paranoia, disturbing thoughts, outbursts may not be under their control.

I am a supporter of faith, and prayer if this is someone's choice,  but IMHO, I think there is a time for faith alone and faith in addition to professional help. Certainly, if someone had strep throat, prayer is great, but that person needs a health care practitioner. A pastor can not prescribe antibiotics.

IMHO, I think the counselor is stating his limits. He can not deal with issues such as violence- imagined or real. Paranoid delusions are not a sin. I think it is good to stay with this for now- it is all the help you have, but there could be a need for additional help from other professionals at some point if the issues you have go beyond his training.

[formflier]

 

My thoughts are very close to Notwendy.

Interesting development. 

History:  I had made a commitment to my wife that if they were ever worried about PTSD "coming back" that I would happily "go in for a checkup". 

My wife started "invoking" that a couple months ago.

The last guy that treated me was PhD type, over 40 years experience, ":)iplomat" in Psychology.  The guy has been there and done that.

He was not an option but he stressed a couple things to me on the phone.

1.  Whatever is the "root" between or in  you and your wife is not for "beginners".  Basically he said to shop for PhD with lots of experience in trauma. 

2.  And that I never "speak for my wife" that I only speak for my experience. 

I found one but she has been busy.  She has an opening tonight.

It was discussed yesterday in MC and all agreed that we should proceed. 

In another odd turn, my wife emails me and is like "our appointment? why do I need to be there"  I explained it again, and she says she is going.

We'll see.

My basic stance is that PTSD in is remission, that I am not confusing current events with past events, but that I AM upset and reactive about what is going on "right now" in the past two months.

We'll see where that leads.

FF

[empath]

The emails from the counselor sound like standard boundary setting with couple's counseling; he doesn't want to get into triangles (that's a good sign in a counselor). He also stated clearly his stance on violence and reporting to CPS -- he would be a mandatory reporter of child abuse.

You all are still free to do what you like, but he isn't going to be drawn into the triangle.

PTSD is something that many people who haven't experienced don't understand. Mine is in remission as well; it has been for many years. I would say that since you can describe with accuracy the events that are happening when it is intense in your home currently, PTSD is not likely the cause. Your wife even has agreed with the events as you described them.

[Daniell85]

I don't feel comfortable that he is asking you to share an email that you sent, believing your privacy would be respected. I can see after he asks that all mails be shared, for them to be shared.

[formflier]

I had told him in the email that I understood he may need to share it.

It is standard practice in the kind of counseling to not have secrets. 

So, it will come out, eventually. 

I will wait till a day or so prior to next appointment. 

Later in the email chain she directly asked for him to send her the files since I would not. 

He said no, since he did not have my permission.

FF

[Fian]

Have you told your wife that you will release the emails before the next meeting?  That might cause her to calm down, and not fight you every day until the next meeting.

[formflier]

Yes, I day prior so she has time to process.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm a little confused on this issue... .and not terribly impressed by your Biblical MC either... .here's the sequence as I see it:

You sent private emails to BMC about your situation. Not intending them to be read by your wife, but understanding that he might share them. [Dunno what emails your wife sent him privately, but apparently there were some.

He asked you to send your wife the email you sent him previously.

He asked both of you to not communicate with him without copying your spouse in the future.

Your wife asked you to send her the email as well.

You emailed back JADEing about why you don't want to send your wife the email.

BMC sounds kinda frustrated with both of you, and acknowledged that you will do what you want with his instructions until the next session (With strong DV warnings)



My suggestions, based on what I've seen:

1. Assert your right to privacy. You don't wish to forward the email to your wife. Don't do it. Full Stop.

If pressed, state that you wrote it for the BMC, sent it to the BMC, and it stops there for you. If it had been something that your wife needed to see, you would have sent it to her in the first place. (Unstated but true--he can do with it as he wishes, including sending it to your wife.)

Stop JADEing and trying to tell either him or your wife WHY you don't want to share it with your wife.

2. BE CAREFUL ABOUT DV / CPS statements. He has warned you that he will involve law enforcement or CPS if he hears any indication that it is needed. Say NOTHING that could implicate you in anything here with him.

Note that if you are being attacked/chased by your wife, physical actions to defend yourself or restrain her from hurting you would make both you and her guilty of DV.

First off, don't do this, and re-read the guidelines here about DV situations for men:

TOOLS: Domestic Violence Against Men

Second off, if you did in the past, or have thoughts/plans about what you might have to do in the future, don't say anything to him about it. You don't want to end up in jail. You don't want CPS investigating the whole family. You don't want the BMC calling any authorities in to investigate you or your family.

Your wife may say things that implicate either you or her; you cannot control that. In fact she is a bit of a loose canon that way. Don't be one yourself.

[Cat Familiar]

What you've been reporting about your MC sessions, FF, makes me really question the credentials of your counselor. I know that spiritual counseling is the only avenue your wife has agreed to pursue, but I wonder if this guy truly realizes that he's dealing with a severely mentally ill woman.

It could work out fine, but it seems this guy is playing with dynamite with the exercises he's asked the two of you to do. Also asking that you share confidential emails with each other seems like a breech of trust in the counseling environment.

Is there someone you trust, like a psychologist friend, that you can ask about the protocol of what you've been asked to do? This seems really dangerous to me. It's probably fine if both individuals are relatively emotionally healthy, but it seems illconsidered with your wife.

[Notwendy]

I am agreeing with Cat. I understand the idea of not keeping secrets, but also not putting yourself in a dangerous ( emotionally ) position.

What I didn't know was that if I wrote something to my parents, my mother kept it and threw it in my face for years after. This includes the adolescent angst stuff.

I wrote an e mail to my father, and my parents made more out of it than it was. He shared it with my mother, not only that, he printed it out and she kept it, taking it out to repeatedly berate me for it.

If I wrote a confidential e mail to a counselor describing something very personal to me about my concerns, and was told to show/send a copy to someone as affected as my mother, I would not want to do it.

I also think that, even if we are married, we can be individuals. I think in some situations, certain secrets are destructive to marriage, but for our own emotional health, IMHO we can have private discussions with therapists- at least I would feel more comfortable with that. I don't want to get in between what your marriage counselor is trying to accomplish, but if you e mailed him in confidence, then at least I hope he understands that.

[KateCat]

Is there someone you trust, like a psychologist friend, that you can ask about the protocol of what you've been asked to do? This seems really dangerous to me. It's probably fine if both individuals are relatively emotionally healthy, but it seems illconsidered with your wife.

Perhaps the lady the two of you just saw together.

[Daniell85]

I am glad the therapist has refused to forward things to your wife. I think that a therapist who is making threats of police reporting and who is unwilling to preserve client privacy, is not a therapist who will hear the full truth from people.

By letting your wife know that you shared things with him, then refusing to pass things on to your wife, the therapist has created a triangulation. I wouldn't be surprised to see your wife run the distance on that.

[Fian]

FF, I am concerned that when you hide something from a person with paranoia the result can be even worse than showing it to them.  She will spend the next 2 weeks imagining the worst possible thing that you can say in an email and blaming you for that.  Showing her what you actually wrote may make her angry, but she can probably imagine worse.