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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Boundaries - I protect others from me  (Read 597 times)
Sunfl0wer
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« on: March 26, 2016, 05:59:04 PM »

I have an issue with boundaries.  I find myself trying to build boundaries for other people, and have even insisted they enforce them against me. 

For example: 1st year with the exBF

I recognized he had poor boundaries and educated him on this.  I made it my job to ensure he had good boundaries because it bothered me when he didn't. (I felt less respect for him, and protective of him.)  So if we had a disagreement, and I noticed him just going along with things, I stopped the process to instruct him on boundaries.  I drew him out to gather his opinions so we could utilize them in our decision making process. 

Another example:  In talking to friends

I often add disclaimers to prepare them for the interaction if I worry they may not be able to handle it. 

"I want to discuss xyz, but know you can always change your mind, or know I won't be mad if you decide to xyz". I will actually formulate and offer 'exit strategies' for them!

I am often hypervigilant to 'protect' people from me.

While I am thinking: I am being loving

Another may be thinking: Who is she to treat me like I am helpless?

It is like walking to my next door neighbor, and without asking, building a fence around his yard so my dog doesn't sh*t on his grass! 

Who am I to decide? Maybe he wants the fertilizer for greener grass?

Is there a name for this type of boundary issue? (Besides codependence :P )

Anyone else relate?
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How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
gotbushels
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 08:13:08 AM »

:\ Not really sure what the issue is here Sunfl0wer. I'm a bit confused. Isn't not letting your dog go into his grass a good thing... .?
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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 08:38:46 AM »

:\ Not really sure what the issue is here Sunfl0wer. I'm a bit confused. Isn't not letting your dog go into his grass a good thing... .?

Well, would you like it if I came and built a fence around your yard without asking you?

Or you have a fence, a metal one so breezes can pass and you can see the lake, I don't like it, and I try to put up another one, a high solid one. One that blocks your view of the lake.  I don't mean to block your view.  I'm just trying to keep you safer.

I think it is "overcaretaking" of me.

Who am I to decide a person needs a fence or not? Or which type?

While, I admit, this is not usually a big problem.  Many people sense that I am being caring, with good intentions, and ok with it.  

However, I suspect, like in the case with ex, that crossing into his 'yard' just made me vulnerable. I wish I had processed: This guy has poor boundaries, lets see how this plays out

Instead I processed: This guy would be great, lets fix his boundaries.

I took ownership of something I don't own because I felt it my 'duty.'

Also, isn't that narcissistic a bit?  Why do I decide and impose my idea of what another person needs?

Also, it can be insulting.  It is like communicating to someone:

I don't trust you to protect yourself, so I will help you do it.  I will make it easy for you.

I recall a T pointing out to me in my past when I was 'caretaking' of her.  Sometimes not wanting to share things so as not to bother her.  Humm... .  Maybe I am afraid that I will be a burden.



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How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
gotbushels
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2016, 09:32:29 PM »

Well, would you like it if I came and built a fence around your yard without asking you?

Possibly :P

Or you have a fence, a metal one so breezes can pass and you can see the lake, I don't like it, and I try to put up another one, a high solid one. One that blocks your view of the lake.  I don't mean to block your view.  I'm just trying to keep you safer.

Ok, maybe not :P

---


Ok now that I read your development, I think it's quite a complex topic. There is a lot of middle ground. There is also the connection to enabling behaviour. There is also the connection to excessive desired to control. That is related to the bigger human struggle of control in our lives. There are a lot of abstracts and specifics. So focus will be important. I see the boundaries as the "thing" you are trying to emplace. It is one example of the greater theme of "going beyond" to "control" a situation, or "caretake" someone. It would probably be fruitful to focus on the greater theme. Sorry if this comes across as therapeutic, I couldn't see another way of understanding it.

I think people can see the behaviour as "overcaretaking". But at the same time I feel that it's also caring with good intentions. I don't think this makes it undesirable, but the main issue would be that it's quite tiring for you. Yes, it would certainly make you vulnerable to cross into his yard. Moreover when you consider any obligations you may have to others. I think this is interesting because it's closely tied to the "I must help you" quality that nons seem to have. It's worth reconsidering because:

1. It's not a behaviour that is easy for the recipient to appreciate.

2. It may go unappreciated.

3. It's not "your job" to do things for people.

4. I don't feel it's fair to you, regardless of your capacity of partner or a mum.

5. It can make you bitter.

6. If you do it when courting with a man he may treat you like a mum.

7. For 'normal people', you don't match what they want. (ohhhh this is what you meant by 'match' https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=291955.msg12746476#msg12746476 )

8. For pwBPD, it could lead to some very, very big problems. Imagine if you are the one shovelling dirt into that "grand canyon" hole. This thinking encourages you being the shoveller. Very problematic for you Sunfl0wer.

It's interesting you bring this up. While going 'beyond' basic expectations is normally a good thing, you would need to be careful in applying it here.

For these situations, the other option is to be a lighthouse. It can be easier, or harder, especially if you are predisposed to 'care' for people in this way. Counterintuitively, it may also be safer and more caring as you are encouraging the other party to stand on their own when you behave as a lighthouse. We encourage and warn people, but it's their job to walk or not walk the door. Omg Sunfl0wer don't hold their hand if they walk off a cliff!


Also, isn't that narcissistic a bit?  Why do I decide and impose my idea of what another person needs?

No worries Sunfl0wer. I like how you check yourself but please don't exhaust yourself or be too critical.

Not really narcissistic. Both in the pathological and 'common' sense. Based just on this, it seems to me to be maternal instinct. But in the interest of doing what's effective for you, it would be worthwhile to reconsider it. It could also relieve tremendous burdens you impose on yourself.


I took ownership of something I don't own because I felt it my 'duty.'

This is interesting.

This behaviour would be appropriate for early stage child-care... .but there is a stage of infant development where you have to deal with creating healthy independence for the child... .it's difficult.
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valet
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2016, 12:01:54 PM »

Hey Sunflower, I think that I see where you're coming from. It sounds like a difficult dilemma. Maybe you want people to respect themselves a bit more. But it all comes down to you. You can't construct others people's boundaries... .and you certainly can't enforce them.

In truth, it might be having the opposite effect. People will not behave how you want them to. I think it's a bit controlling and manipulative to expect people to act exactly along parameters that you have defined for them. You need to learn to let people be themselves, and most importantly, react in the ways that they would naturally. It'll help build your distress tolerance, as well as giving you a better glimpse at the people in your life—this way you'll be able to make more sound evaluations about who you want around and who you don't. There are a lot of people out there, and you don't need to confine yourself to whomever you already have!

You seem very practical and pedantic about this. That's good I think, to a certain point. Eventually you'll have to let up on the reading/analyzing and live life—being yourself, doing things without getting advice first, making decisions based on your own sense of judgement. This means exposing yourself to being hurt by others not acting how you want them to. Try to give that experience to yourself. If you do not see people for who they are (and this means giving them the chance to be that!), you are depriving yourself of growing opportunities.

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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2016, 12:25:50 PM »

I have an issue with boundaries.  I find myself trying to build boundaries for other people, and have even insisted they enforce them against me. 

And that is you trampling their boundaries. Basic boundaries--their thoughts and feelings are their own. That includes enforcing boundaries... .or not enforcing boundaries. They get to choose.

It really isn't healthy for you to overstep somebody else's boundaries... .you know that... .I know that... .and this is true for both you and for them... .the same is true of your boundaries--it isn't healthy for either you or the other person who is trampling your boundaries.

However, in either case, it is the responsibility of the person whose boundaries are violated to deal with it. I think you know that if somebody else is overstepping your boundaries, you aren't going to do well by trusting them to help you stop them from doing it!

Is there something about people with poor boundaries that attracts you so you can "fix" them?

Excerpt
It is like walking to my next door neighbor, and without asking, building a fence around his yard so my dog doesn't sh*t on his grass! 

Who am I to decide? Maybe he wants the fertilizer for greener grass?

Is there a name for this type of boundary issue?

If it involves a physical yard and fence, yes there is a name for what you are doing. Trespassing. There is a law against it too!

In that case, letting your dog out into his yard also qualifies as trespassing, and the appropriate solution is to control your dog with a leash, or a fence on your property, not one on his property!
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Sunfl0wer
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Relationship status: He moved out mid March
Posts: 2583



« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2016, 06:32:52 PM »

Humm, thank you for replying.  I am thinking I did a poor job of conveying the issue tho.

Hopefully when my mind is less mushy I can come back to reply thoughtfully.  I did not quite get this right.

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How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
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