Secondary repercussions/stigma from the relationship?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

  just wondering if anyone has experienced a change in social standing within a group because of the relationship they were in with an exBPD? If so how to manage it? Why does it happen? Can there be a collective splitting/ projection of shadow onto the non- from just being in close proximity from a couple consisting of a BPD partner?

[cherryblossom]

  just wondering if anyone has experienced a change in social standing within a group because of the relationship they were in with an exBPD? If so how to manage it? Why does it happen? Can there be a collective splitting/ projection of shadow onto the non- from just being in close proximity from a couple consisting of a BPD partner?

[cherryblossom]

Or what if there are more than 1 BPD in a group?

[troisette]

I think there are probably lots of variants about this Cherry. Mine is just one of them.

When I met exBPD he had a group of friends of whom he was very proud. He said it was like when he was ten, they were his friends and like a family. I was introduced into the circle, I noticed that much of our spare time was spent with them and he sometimes told me that if I didn't want to do what they did, he was going to do it anyway. It was as though they gave him an identity and a sense of place and belonging. He didn't enjoy the company of my friends, I noticed that he evaded seeing them and when it was unavoidable he was uncomfortable. He felt his group gave him status, he felt insecure around mine.

I didn't know anything about BPD at the time but I found his friends boring, shrill, heavy drinkers with - for the most part - inane, self-promoting, conversation - attention seeking when in public. I noticed that he became a different person when with them. He was very flirty with the women, and he seemed to hold one man in high esteem, a father figure. The group was gossipy and b___y about each other while regarding themselves as socially elevated.

Looking back with the perspective of time, I realise that the group success was based on mutual reinforcement. You tell me I'm great, I'll tell you you're wonderful, we'll tell x that he is brilliant - and then we can believe this is so. Nowadays I recognise that there was a bias to narcissism in the group. Some probably are narcissists, feeding each other.

Getting to your point: when we split he went away for a couple of weeks. I was invited to coffee on two or three occasions and pumped about the reason for our split. I kept schtum. I didn't diss him and kept smiling, although it was agonising. Having got as much information from me as they could, I was then excluded. But I expected this because I wasn't an original member of the group and I think I may have caused some insecurity because I didn't subscribe to their view of themselves and my own  background caused me to be unimpressed with their behaviour. It left me with a diminished social life for a while but I've been rebuilding that with people I like, realising just how boring I found their superficialities.

My ex is a high functioning quiet BPD so you have to know him well before sensing and witnessing the oddities. His group are not observant and didn't see beyond the mask. Well, on a couple of occasions he acted weirdly but they dismissed it as booze. Also, one extreme and obvious example of dissociation was ignored. So the claims of caring for each other as family were not substantiated.

I think that when a couple split and one is a BPD the group dynamics are dependent on whether the BPD's behaviour is apparent to the group, the nature of the group and whether they were equal members of the group. Lots of variants there!

If you are in this situation I suggest that you make no comment about behaviour or blame, it could cause repercussions for you. Best to rise above. Difficult but worth it in the long term.

[balletomane]

Thankfully the social worlds of me and my ex don't overlap by much, as we're from different countries. He met a few of my friends when he visited me in my home country, and I met his when we lived in his home country. But I never became close to any of his friends, and he never got close to any of mine.

Thinking about it, he really didn't have that many friends. I only ever met three of them. One I only saw once. She was very nice and I could probably have got on well with her if I'd seen her more, but he himself hardly ever met up with her. The other two were close friends from his high school days, and I'd say they were the only real friends he seemed to have. They didn't like me much, and it's true I didn't make an effort with them - I felt shut out from the group, as I was the only female in this little gang of guys whose social meet-ups consisted of watching films that really weren't my thing.

Then my ex started at university. At first he was miserable and paranoid that everybody at the college hated him. He would lash out at me for suggesting that he was assuming too much about people. Literally - he told me that another student obviously wished him dead, because she'd looked at him funny in the laundromat, and when I pointed out that people are unlikely to be wishing complete strangers dead, he went into a horrible vicious rage that ended with me in tears. But over time, as I'd predicted, he did make some friends in his class. One of them suggested that they share an apartment for their second year of study. She ended up becoming my replacement. I did like her. I got to know her pretty well when she was his flatmate. He kept our involvement a secret from her, so she wasn't aware we were anything other than platonic friends when they got together. She never saw me after that. She is a similar person to me (spookily similar - same profession, similar interests, even similar sense of humour) and I think we could have been friends. Sometimes I wish I'd spilled the beans on my ex and let her know what was really going on, but I was too devastated after he discarded me for her to do anything. I guess this would count as one potential friendship that I lost because of my ex, but it was only ever a potential one - he liked to keep our friends in categories and she was always very much 'his' friend. Not long before they got together, he gave me grudging permission to be friends with her if I wanted "providing you don't gossip about me". He'd noticed that she and I were becoming closer, and he honestly seemed to feel that his permission was needed.

[cherryblossom]

Thanks for responses so far... .interesting reads

guess I'm trying to work out whether some of these people are narcissistic / insecure / backstabbing /shallow asss anyway and sooner or later we would have fallen out a bit or whether because they witnessed the crap I started to put up with- they generally lost respect for me and I became a cliques target for projection? -maybe they are just human (well of course they are)-just getting little too big for boots and things will resolve naturally? I guess time will tell -relationships are dynamic, fluid and have potential for repair

some more detail on my scenario... .

I joined a band 2013 with a friend -we quickly became well liked members -my ex joined maybe 2 months later -maybe 3 months after that we got together - he was considered to be lovely / well liked as well- we were a golden couple for a while- there are some more couples who are from the founding band who are key people

we are both socially astute people and very aware of the games people play and we used to laugh and joke about that a lot and about social hierarchies and how pathetic they are (however I realise it is unhealthy to focus too much on this sort of thing and just concentrate on yourself and how you are doing -but I cant help but get drawn to doing this ) I wonder if people could sense we were doing this?

my ex started acting more bizarrely when drunk and there are loads of opps to get drunk with this band, he would piss people off, his behaviour generally would be putting me into states of extreme anxiety -I became more and more withdrawn -less talkative --instead of some of key people being supportive -I got accused of being boring!,  I got more and more paranoid withdrawn -everything seemed a façade -I kept thinking people were talking about me negatively -I felt like I couldn't tell anyone true extent of what was going on as it would be making him look bad and I was in denial myself trying desperately to retrieve the idealized version of him and our connection-there were so many subjects I couldn't talk about that I was worried to trigger him -I allowed myself to get sucked into a vortex -constant worrying about him

I have only just returned after about 7 months off -everyone including the ones that got b___y have seemed genuinely pleased to see me -although I'm sure I have noticed some snide comments aimed at moi- but in a group that big I don't think it can be avoided -there is still this inner circle who seem to enjoy being elevated over others and I don't think I'm quite "in" that -not sure I want to be-am ok with those people individually - but I'm hoping my return to my former self will help things balance out return to normal -I just wonder how much impact our mad destructive relationship had on other people's behaviours / emotions / responses? Again all this ties in with the loss of what could have been -when things were going well with us we had a valued place in that group and we had so many great memories -all that I have to turn a light off to now.

my ex seemed to have noticed the changing tides towards "us" from certain members and I'm convinced was a factor to my devaluation -it's annoying as I feel if we didn't get together I would not have experienced any of this backlash -however like I say cannot be totally sure as there are some b___y / insecure/ gossipy people within who may have targeted me anyway.  I think some people don't like to be reminded of the fallibility of human existence as it challenges them too greatly -but I think that reflects the BPD - the BPD cannot accept and deal with the shame ---so does BPD bring out BPD traits in others?

2bh sometimes I feel my whole faith in humanity is destroyed from the combo of this situation - vile, hideous traits have been exposed in a variety of people --but it is helping me work on compassion and building my strength

[troisette]

I think I know where you are coming from Cherry. It sounds familiar to me. My ex husband was a musician (not BPD but something amiss) and my background is media, as is ex BPD's. Not wishing to generalise too much, the entertainment and media worlds tend to attract/create narcissism, self publicists, over involved with their public persona. It can be shallow and competitive.

Snide comments are part of the business, as you probably know. It comes with the territory. Lots of competitiveness and jealousies. Performers want to be seen and heard. Off stage as well as on. It's the "charisma" thing. I put that in speechmarks because I now question whether it is charisma although it can  be alluring when you're around it.

Booze: well, that's part of the territory too. And the behavioural boundaries are looser and wider in the world of media and entertainment. I'm sure you know that.

The band's behaviour sounds like mutually reinforcing group behaviour. But competitiveness causes splits and factions. Best to avoid that. Factions can change. Also, it's not unusual for a group to need a scapegoat to project on to. If a scapegoat shows weakness it reinforces the projection, try to stay neutral and strong.

But despite the differences in that world, fundamentally you are still dealing with a BPD break up, with the same issues. And yes, BPD can bring out BPD traits in others. It's called "fleas". There are articles online about it.

The main person to address is you. How you are going to deal with what's happening. To devise a strategy for yourself to work with the rest of the band whilst undergoing the difficulties of the split. Reading extensively will help you understand. I understand your comment about losing faith in humanity, it's bad enough in the "normal" world but when you are working with performers it makes it harder.

You will find these boards will help you stay grounded, as you read of other's experiences, similarities and differences.

As I said in my previous post, I found the best way forward was to keep schtum, maintain my dignity, never diss him or anyone else (except to my closest friends who knew what I was talking about). If you do  this there can be no gossipy, spiteful comeback on you in the future. And in  time attention will be moved to other events, other people and you will not be regretting  anything you said. Try to stay neutral. Difficult I know but my situation was similar, his crowd are media based too but I've never regretted my stance; the attention to our split has waned and I've retained dignity. The storm passed over.

[boatman]

2bh sometimes I feel my whole faith in humanity is destroyed from the combo of this situation - vile, hideous traits have been exposed in a variety of people --but it is helping me work on compassion and building my strength

I can relate to how you feel. Unfortunately, I work with my most recent BPDex. Even more of a kick in the ass is the fact that she was just promoted to a position with a higher pay grade than me, despite my working for the company twice as long as her. No doubt she has conducted a smear campaign against me, as a large number of my coworkers now try to avoid me.

I think escape is really the only viable answer, not only in my situation but in most situations like this. I don't think it's manageable or realistic to think I could convince them of my self worth or explain the dynamics of the relationship I had with her. Honestly, I don't really want to put myself in that position either. It's quite unlikely that my ex has been honest with my coworkers, but if she has and they take no exception to her behavior, then I don't want to be associated with them anyway. Like I said, escape is the best answer. So I am currently looking for a new job despite having worked for my current company for 21 years.